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From: Ingo Molnar <mingo@elte.hu>
To: Oren Laadan <orenl@cs.columbia.edu>
Cc: containers@lists.linux-foundation.org,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, linux-mm@kvack.org,
	Serge Hallyn <serue@us.ibm.com>,
	Dave Hansen <dave@linux.vnet.ibm.com>,
	"H. Peter Anvin" <hpa@zytor.com>,
	Alexander Viro <viro@zeniv.linux.org.uk>,
	MinChan Kim <minchan.kim@gmail.com>,
	arnd@arndb.de, jeremy@goop.org
Subject: Re: [RFC v6][PATCH 0/9] Kernel based checkpoint/restart
Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2008 14:46:58 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20081009124658.GE2952@elte.hu> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <1223461197-11513-1-git-send-email-orenl@cs.columbia.edu>


* Oren Laadan <orenl@cs.columbia.edu> wrote:

> These patches implement basic checkpoint-restart [CR]. This version 
> (v6) supports basic tasks with simple private memory, and open files 
> (regular files and directories only). Changes mainly cleanups. See 
> original announcements below.

i'm wondering about the following productization aspect: it would be 
very useful to applications and users if they knew whether it is safe to 
checkpoint a given app. I.e. whether that app has any state that cannot 
be stored/restored yet.

Once we can do that, if the kernel can reliably tell whether it can 
safely checkpoint an application, we could start adding a kernel driven 
self-test of sorts: a self-propelled kernel feature that would 
transparently try to checkpoint various applications as it goes, and 
restore them immediately.

When such a test-kernel is booted then all that should be visible is an 
occasional slowdown due to the random save/restore cycles of various 
processes - but no actual application breakage should ever occur, and 
the kernel must not crash either. This would work a bit like 
CONFIG_RCUTORTURE: a constant test that should be transparent in terms 
of functionality.

Also, the ability to tell whether a process can be safely checkpointed 
would allow apps to rely on it - they cannot accidentally use some 
kernel feature that is not saved/restored and then lose state across a 
CR cycle.

Plus, as a bonus, the inability to CR a given application would sure 
spur the development of proper checkpointing of that given kernel state. 
We could print some once-per-boot debug warning about exactly what bit 
cannot be checkpointed yet. This would create proper pressure from 
actual users of CR.

	Ingo

WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Ingo Molnar <mingo@elte.hu>
To: Oren Laadan <orenl@cs.columbia.edu>
Cc: containers@lists.linux-foundation.org,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, linux-mm@kvack.org,
	Serge Hallyn <serue@us.ibm.com>,
	Dave Hansen <dave@linux.vnet.ibm.com>,
	"H. Peter Anvin" <hpa@zytor.com>,
	Alexander Viro <viro@zeniv.linux.org.uk>,
	MinChan Kim <minchan.kim@gmail.com>,
	arnd@arndb.de, jeremy@goop.org
Subject: Re: [RFC v6][PATCH 0/9] Kernel based checkpoint/restart
Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2008 14:46:58 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20081009124658.GE2952@elte.hu> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <1223461197-11513-1-git-send-email-orenl@cs.columbia.edu>

* Oren Laadan <orenl@cs.columbia.edu> wrote:

> These patches implement basic checkpoint-restart [CR]. This version 
> (v6) supports basic tasks with simple private memory, and open files 
> (regular files and directories only). Changes mainly cleanups. See 
> original announcements below.

i'm wondering about the following productization aspect: it would be 
very useful to applications and users if they knew whether it is safe to 
checkpoint a given app. I.e. whether that app has any state that cannot 
be stored/restored yet.

Once we can do that, if the kernel can reliably tell whether it can 
safely checkpoint an application, we could start adding a kernel driven 
self-test of sorts: a self-propelled kernel feature that would 
transparently try to checkpoint various applications as it goes, and 
restore them immediately.

When such a test-kernel is booted then all that should be visible is an 
occasional slowdown due to the random save/restore cycles of various 
processes - but no actual application breakage should ever occur, and 
the kernel must not crash either. This would work a bit like 
CONFIG_RCUTORTURE: a constant test that should be transparent in terms 
of functionality.

Also, the ability to tell whether a process can be safely checkpointed 
would allow apps to rely on it - they cannot accidentally use some 
kernel feature that is not saved/restored and then lose state across a 
CR cycle.

Plus, as a bonus, the inability to CR a given application would sure 
spur the development of proper checkpointing of that given kernel state. 
We could print some once-per-boot debug warning about exactly what bit 
cannot be checkpointed yet. This would create proper pressure from 
actual users of CR.

	Ingo

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  parent reply	other threads:[~2008-10-09 12:48 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 105+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2008-10-08 10:19 [RFC v6][PATCH 0/9] Kernel based checkpoint/restart Oren Laadan
2008-10-08 10:19 ` Oren Laadan
2008-10-08 10:19 ` [RFC v6][PATCH 1/9] Create syscalls: sys_checkpoint, sys_restart Oren Laadan
2008-10-08 10:19   ` Oren Laadan
2008-10-08 10:19 ` [RFC v6][PATCH 2/9] General infrastructure for checkpoint restart Oren Laadan
2008-10-08 10:19   ` Oren Laadan
2008-10-08 10:19 ` [RFC v6][PATCH 3/9] x86 support for checkpoint/restart Oren Laadan
2008-10-08 10:19   ` Oren Laadan
     [not found]   ` <1223461197-11513-4-git-send-email-orenl-eQaUEPhvms7ENvBUuze7eA@public.gmane.org>
2008-10-10 10:21     ` Cedric Le Goater
2008-10-10 10:21   ` Cedric Le Goater
2008-10-10 10:21     ` Cedric Le Goater
     [not found]     ` <48EF2CB3.9040900-NmTC/0ZBporQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
2008-10-10 10:24       ` Oren Laadan
2008-10-10 10:24     ` Oren Laadan
2008-10-10 10:24       ` Oren Laadan
     [not found] ` <1223461197-11513-1-git-send-email-orenl-eQaUEPhvms7ENvBUuze7eA@public.gmane.org>
2008-10-08 10:19   ` [RFC v6][PATCH 1/9] Create syscalls: sys_checkpoint, sys_restart Oren Laadan
2008-10-08 10:19   ` [RFC v6][PATCH 2/9] General infrastructure for checkpoint restart Oren Laadan
2008-10-08 10:19   ` [RFC v6][PATCH 3/9] x86 support for checkpoint/restart Oren Laadan
2008-10-08 10:19   ` [RFC v6][PATCH 4/9] Dump memory address space Oren Laadan
2008-10-08 10:19   ` [RFC v6][PATCH 5/9] Restore " Oren Laadan
2008-10-08 10:19   ` [RFC v6][PATCH 6/9] Checkpoint/restart: initial documentation Oren Laadan
2008-10-08 10:19   ` [RFC v6][PATCH 7/9] Infrastructure for shared objects Oren Laadan
2008-10-08 10:19   ` [RFC v6][PATCH 8/9] Dump open file descriptors Oren Laadan
2008-10-08 10:19   ` [RFC v6][PATCH 9/9] Restore open file descriprtors Oren Laadan
2008-10-09 12:46   ` [RFC v6][PATCH 0/9] Kernel based checkpoint/restart Ingo Molnar
2008-10-08 10:19 ` [RFC v6][PATCH 4/9] Dump memory address space Oren Laadan
2008-10-08 10:19   ` Oren Laadan
2008-10-08 10:19 ` [RFC v6][PATCH 5/9] Restore " Oren Laadan
2008-10-08 10:19   ` Oren Laadan
     [not found]   ` <1223461197-11513-6-git-send-email-orenl-eQaUEPhvms7ENvBUuze7eA@public.gmane.org>
2008-10-08 15:35     ` Dave Hansen
2008-10-08 15:35   ` Dave Hansen
2008-10-08 15:35     ` Dave Hansen
2008-10-08 10:19 ` [RFC v6][PATCH 6/9] Checkpoint/restart: initial documentation Oren Laadan
2008-10-08 10:19   ` Oren Laadan
2008-10-08 10:19 ` [RFC v6][PATCH 7/9] Infrastructure for shared objects Oren Laadan
2008-10-08 10:19   ` Oren Laadan
2008-10-08 10:19 ` [RFC v6][PATCH 8/9] Dump open file descriptors Oren Laadan
2008-10-08 10:19   ` Oren Laadan
2008-10-08 10:19 ` [RFC v6][PATCH 9/9] Restore open file descriprtors Oren Laadan
2008-10-08 10:19   ` Oren Laadan
2008-10-09 12:46 ` Ingo Molnar [this message]
2008-10-09 12:46   ` [RFC v6][PATCH 0/9] Kernel based checkpoint/restart Ingo Molnar
     [not found]   ` <20081009124658.GE2952-X9Un+BFzKDI@public.gmane.org>
2008-10-09 12:58     ` Dave Hansen
2008-10-09 12:58       ` Dave Hansen
2008-10-09 12:58       ` Dave Hansen
2008-10-09 13:17       ` Ingo Molnar
2008-10-09 13:17         ` Ingo Molnar
2008-10-09 13:34         ` Dave Hansen
2008-10-09 13:34           ` Dave Hansen
2008-10-09 13:44           ` Ingo Molnar
2008-10-09 13:44             ` Ingo Molnar
2008-10-09 13:44             ` Ingo Molnar
2008-10-09 16:50             ` Dave Hansen
2008-10-09 16:50               ` Dave Hansen
2008-10-10 15:39               ` Ingo Molnar
2008-10-10 15:39               ` Ingo Molnar
2008-10-10 15:39                 ` Ingo Molnar
     [not found]                 ` <20081010153951.GD28977-X9Un+BFzKDI@public.gmane.org>
2008-10-13  8:13                   ` Cedric Le Goater
2008-10-13  8:13                 ` Cedric Le Goater
2008-10-13  8:13                   ` Cedric Le Goater
2008-10-13 16:12                   ` Oren Laadan
2008-10-13 16:12                     ` Oren Laadan
2008-10-15 15:13                     ` Cedric Le Goater
2008-10-15 15:13                       ` Cedric Le Goater
2008-10-15 23:59                       ` Oren Laadan
2008-10-15 23:59                         ` Oren Laadan
     [not found]                       ` <48F60891.1070807-NmTC/0ZBporQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
2008-10-15 23:59                         ` Oren Laadan
     [not found]                     ` <48F3737B.6070904-eQaUEPhvms7ENvBUuze7eA@public.gmane.org>
2008-10-15 15:13                       ` Cedric Le Goater
2008-10-13 16:43                   ` Dave Hansen
2008-10-13 16:43                     ` Dave Hansen
2008-10-15 15:15                     ` Cedric Le Goater
2008-10-15 15:15                     ` Cedric Le Goater
2008-10-15 15:15                       ` Cedric Le Goater
2008-10-16  0:06                       ` Oren Laadan
2008-10-16  0:06                         ` Oren Laadan
     [not found]                         ` <48F685A3.1060804-eQaUEPhvms7ENvBUuze7eA@public.gmane.org>
2008-10-16 12:35                           ` Daniel Lezcano
2008-10-16 12:35                         ` Daniel Lezcano
2008-10-16 12:35                           ` Daniel Lezcano
2008-10-16 13:49                           ` Oren Laadan
2008-10-16 13:49                             ` Oren Laadan
     [not found]                             ` <48F74674.20202-eQaUEPhvms7ENvBUuze7eA@public.gmane.org>
2008-10-16 22:51                               ` Peter Chubb
2008-10-16 22:51                             ` Peter Chubb
2008-10-16 22:51                               ` Peter Chubb
2008-10-17  6:30                               ` David Newall
2008-10-17  6:30                                 ` David Newall
     [not found]                                 ` <48F83121.7070705-KzQzY1MbaKjAHznzqCTclw@public.gmane.org>
2008-10-20 17:17                                   ` Dave Hansen
2008-10-20 17:17                                     ` Dave Hansen
2008-10-20 17:17                                     ` Dave Hansen
2008-10-17  6:44                               ` Cedric Le Goater
2008-10-17  6:44                                 ` Cedric Le Goater
2008-10-17  7:08                               ` Oren Laadan
2008-10-17  7:08                                 ` Oren Laadan
     [not found]                               ` <87r66g8875.wl%peter-LkDQP0DxSMGxwJ88Py/mJxCuuivNXqWP@public.gmane.org>
2008-10-17  6:30                                 ` David Newall
2008-10-17  6:44                                 ` Cedric Le Goater
2008-10-17  7:08                                 ` Oren Laadan
     [not found]                           ` <48F7352F.3020700-NmTC/0ZBporQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
2008-10-16 13:49                             ` Oren Laadan
     [not found]                       ` <48F6092D.6050400-NmTC/0ZBporQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
2008-10-16  0:06                         ` Oren Laadan
     [not found]                   ` <48F30315.1070909-NmTC/0ZBporQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
2008-10-13 16:12                     ` Oren Laadan
2008-10-13 16:43                     ` Dave Hansen
     [not found]             ` <20081009134415.GA12135-X9Un+BFzKDI@public.gmane.org>
2008-10-09 16:50               ` Dave Hansen
2008-10-09 21:59         ` Greg Kurz
2008-10-09 21:59           ` Greg Kurz
     [not found]         ` <20081009131701.GA21112-X9Un+BFzKDI@public.gmane.org>
2008-10-09 13:34           ` Dave Hansen
2008-10-09 21:59           ` Greg Kurz
2008-10-09 13:17       ` Ingo Molnar
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2008-10-08 10:19 Oren Laadan

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