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From: Neil Brown <neilb@suse.de>
To: "J. Bruce Fields" <bfields@fieldses.org>
Cc: Alan Cox <alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk>,
	"Patrick J. LoPresti" <lopresti@gmail.com>,
	Andi Kleen <andi@firstfloor.org>,
	linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org, linux-nfs@vger.kernel.org,
	linux-kernel <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: Proposal: Use hi-res clock for file timestamps
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2010 09:47:38 +1000	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20100819094738.37cfa566@notabene> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20100818173203.GC32430@fieldses.org>

On Wed, 18 Aug 2010 13:32:03 -0400
"J. Bruce Fields" <bfields@fieldses.org> wrote:

> On Wed, Aug 18, 2010 at 03:53:59PM +1000, Neil Brown wrote:
> > I'm not sure you even want to pay for a per-filesystem atomic access when
> > updating mtime.  mnt_want_write - called at the same time - seems to go to
> > some lengths to avoid an atomic operation.
> > 
> > I think that nfsd should be the only place that has to pay the atomic
> > penalty, as it is where the need is.
> > 
> > I imagine something like this:
> >  - Create a global struct timespec which is protected by a seqlock
> >    Call it current_nfsd_time or similar.
> >  - file_update_time reads this and uses it if it is newer than
> >    current_fs_time.
> >  - nfsd updates it whenever it reads an mtime out of an inode that matches
> >    current_fs_time to the granularity of 1/HZ.
> 
> We can also skip the update whenever current_nfsd_time is greater than
> the inode's mtime--that's enough to ensure that the next
> file_update_time() call will get a time different from the inode's
> current mtime.

Yes, I agree with you and Patrick - very sensible optimisation.

> 
> Would the extra expense rule out treating sys_stat() the same as nfsd?
> It would be nice to be able to solve the same problem for userspace
> nfsd's (or any other application that might be using mtime to save
> rereading data).

It would be nice, but I would be loathe to add any cost to 'stat' unless we
knew it was needed.
If we had an xstat() which could explicitly ask for
high-precision-time-stamps, then yes - otherwise maybe not.

(or maybe define a system:linux.xxxx xattr which would read as a
high-precision time stamp...  I seem to be warming to the idea of using the
xattr interface for enhancing stat).

NeilBrown

WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Neil Brown <neilb-l3A5Bk7waGM@public.gmane.org>
To: "J. Bruce Fields" <bfields-uC3wQj2KruNg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org>
Cc: Alan Cox <alan-qBU/x9rampVanCEyBjwyrvXRex20P6io@public.gmane.org>,
	"Patrick J. LoPresti"
	<lopresti-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>,
	Andi Kleen <andi-Vw/NltI1exuRpAAqCnN02g@public.gmane.org>,
	linux-fsdevel-u79uwXL29TY76Z2rM5mHXA@public.gmane.org,
	linux-nfs-u79uwXL29TY76Z2rM5mHXA@public.gmane.org,
	linux-kernel
	<linux-kernel-u79uwXL29TY76Z2rM5mHXA@public.gmane.org>
Subject: Re: Proposal: Use hi-res clock for file timestamps
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2010 09:47:38 +1000	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20100819094738.37cfa566@notabene> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20100818173203.GC32430-uC3wQj2KruNg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org>

On Wed, 18 Aug 2010 13:32:03 -0400
"J. Bruce Fields" <bfields-uC3wQj2KruNg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> wrote:

> On Wed, Aug 18, 2010 at 03:53:59PM +1000, Neil Brown wrote:
> > I'm not sure you even want to pay for a per-filesystem atomic access when
> > updating mtime.  mnt_want_write - called at the same time - seems to go to
> > some lengths to avoid an atomic operation.
> > 
> > I think that nfsd should be the only place that has to pay the atomic
> > penalty, as it is where the need is.
> > 
> > I imagine something like this:
> >  - Create a global struct timespec which is protected by a seqlock
> >    Call it current_nfsd_time or similar.
> >  - file_update_time reads this and uses it if it is newer than
> >    current_fs_time.
> >  - nfsd updates it whenever it reads an mtime out of an inode that matches
> >    current_fs_time to the granularity of 1/HZ.
> 
> We can also skip the update whenever current_nfsd_time is greater than
> the inode's mtime--that's enough to ensure that the next
> file_update_time() call will get a time different from the inode's
> current mtime.

Yes, I agree with you and Patrick - very sensible optimisation.

> 
> Would the extra expense rule out treating sys_stat() the same as nfsd?
> It would be nice to be able to solve the same problem for userspace
> nfsd's (or any other application that might be using mtime to save
> rereading data).

It would be nice, but I would be loathe to add any cost to 'stat' unless we
knew it was needed.
If we had an xstat() which could explicitly ask for
high-precision-time-stamps, then yes - otherwise maybe not.

(or maybe define a system:linux.xxxx xattr which would read as a
high-precision time stamp...  I seem to be warming to the idea of using the
xattr interface for enhancing stat).

NeilBrown
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  parent reply	other threads:[~2010-08-18 23:47 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 76+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2010-08-13 18:25 Proposal: Use hi-res clock for file timestamps Patrick J. LoPresti
2010-08-13 18:45 ` john stultz
2010-08-13 18:45   ` john stultz
2010-08-13 18:57   ` Patrick J. LoPresti
2010-08-13 19:09     ` john stultz
2010-08-13 19:09       ` john stultz
2010-08-13 20:53       ` Patrick J. LoPresti
2010-08-13 20:53         ` Patrick J. LoPresti
2010-08-14 16:45         ` Patrick J. LoPresti
2010-08-15  1:50         ` Bret Towe
2010-08-13 19:57     ` Jim Rees
2010-08-13 20:26       ` john stultz
2010-08-13 20:52         ` Jim Rees
2010-08-17 14:54 ` Andi Kleen
2010-08-17 14:54   ` Andi Kleen
2010-08-17 17:41   ` J. Bruce Fields
2010-08-17 17:41     ` J. Bruce Fields
2010-08-17 18:29     ` Andi Kleen
2010-08-17 18:29       ` Andi Kleen
2010-08-17 18:50       ` Patrick J. LoPresti
2010-08-17 18:50         ` Patrick J. LoPresti
2010-08-17 19:04       ` J. Bruce Fields
2010-08-17 19:18         ` Patrick J. LoPresti
2010-08-17 19:18           ` Patrick J. LoPresti
2010-08-17 19:39           ` Alan Cox
2010-08-17 19:39             ` Alan Cox
2010-08-17 19:29             ` J. Bruce Fields
2010-08-17 19:29               ` J. Bruce Fields
2010-08-17 19:52               ` Alan Cox
2010-08-17 19:52                 ` Alan Cox
2010-08-18  5:53               ` Neil Brown
2010-08-18  5:53                 ` Neil Brown
2010-08-18 14:46                 ` Patrick J. LoPresti
2010-08-18 14:46                   ` Patrick J. LoPresti
2010-08-18 17:32                 ` J. Bruce Fields
2010-08-18 17:32                   ` J. Bruce Fields
2010-08-18 18:15                   ` Chuck Lever
2010-08-18 18:15                     ` Chuck Lever
2010-08-18 23:41                     ` Neil Brown
2010-08-18 23:41                       ` Neil Brown
2010-08-19  0:52                       ` Neil Brown
2010-08-19  0:52                         ` Neil Brown
2010-08-19  2:08                         ` J. Bruce Fields
2010-08-19  2:08                           ` J. Bruce Fields
2010-08-19  2:44                           ` Neil Brown
2010-08-19  2:44                             ` Neil Brown
2010-08-19 22:46                             ` J. Bruce Fields
2010-08-19 22:46                               ` J. Bruce Fields
2010-08-18 23:47                   ` Neil Brown [this message]
2010-08-18 23:47                     ` Neil Brown
2010-08-18 17:50                 ` Andi Kleen
2010-08-18 17:50                   ` Andi Kleen
2010-08-18 18:54                   ` J. Bruce Fields
2010-08-18 19:25                     ` Andi Kleen
2010-08-18 19:30                       ` J. Bruce Fields
2010-08-17 19:34             ` Patrick J. LoPresti
2010-08-17 19:34               ` Patrick J. LoPresti
2010-08-17 19:54               ` Alan Cox
2010-08-17 19:43                 ` Patrick J. LoPresti
2010-08-17 19:43                   ` Patrick J. LoPresti
2010-08-17 19:45                   ` J. Bruce Fields
2010-08-17 19:45                     ` J. Bruce Fields
2010-08-18 18:12               ` J. Bruce Fields
2010-08-18 18:12                 ` J. Bruce Fields
2010-08-19  1:41                 ` john stultz
2010-08-19  1:41                   ` john stultz
2010-08-19  2:31                   ` J. Bruce Fields
2010-08-19  2:31                     ` J. Bruce Fields
2010-08-19  3:17                     ` john stultz
2010-08-19  3:17                       ` john stultz
2010-08-19 22:53                       ` J. Bruce Fields
2010-08-18 18:20       ` David Woodhouse
2010-08-18 18:20         ` David Woodhouse
2010-08-18 18:32         ` Patrick J. LoPresti
2010-08-18 18:32           ` Patrick J. LoPresti
2010-08-18 18:53         ` Andi Kleen

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