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From: Mel Gorman <mel@csn.ul.ie>
To: Dave Chinner <david@fromorbit.com>
Cc: linux-mm@kvack.org, linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org,
	Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>,
	Christian Ehrhardt <ehrhardt@linux.vnet.ibm.com>,
	Johannes Weiner <hannes@cmpxchg.org>,
	Wu Fengguang <fengguang.wu@intel.com>, Jan Kara <jack@suse.cz>,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: [PATCH 3/3] writeback: Do not congestion sleep when there are no congested BDIs
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2010 10:33:55 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20100827093355.GC19556@csn.ul.ie> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20100827051316.GH705@dastard>

On Fri, Aug 27, 2010 at 03:13:16PM +1000, Dave Chinner wrote:
> On Thu, Aug 26, 2010 at 04:14:16PM +0100, Mel Gorman wrote:
> > If congestion_wait() is called with no BDIs congested, the caller will
> > sleep for the full timeout and this is an unnecessary sleep.
> 
> That, I think, is an invalid assumption. congestion_wait is used in
> some places as a backoff mechanism that waits for some IO work to be
> done, with congestion disappearing being a indication that progress
> has been made and so we can retry sooner than the entire timeout.
> 

As it's write IO rather than some IO, I wonder if that's really the
right thing to do. However, I accept your (and others) point that
converting all congestion_wait() callers may be too much of a change.

> For example, if _xfs_buf_lookup_pages() fails to allocate page cache
> pages for a buffer, it will kick the xfsbufd to writeback dirty
> buffers (so they can be freed) and immediately enter
> congestion_wait(). If there isn't congestion when we enter
> congestion_wait(), we still want to give the xfsbufds a chance to
> clean some pages before we retry the allocation for the new buffer.
> Removing the congestion_wait() sleep behaviour will effectively
> _increase_ memory pressure with XFS on fast disk subsystems because
> it now won't backoff between failed allocation attempts...
> 
> Perhaps a congestion_wait_iff_congested() variant is needed for the
> VM? I can certainly see how it benefits the VM from a latency
> perspective, but it is the opposite behaviour that is expected in
> other places...
> 

I'm added a wait_iff_congested() and updated a few of the VM callers. I changed
a fairly minimum number of what appeared to be the obvious ones to change.

Thanks

-- 
Mel Gorman
Part-time Phd Student                          Linux Technology Center
University of Limerick                         IBM Dublin Software Lab

WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Mel Gorman <mel@csn.ul.ie>
To: Dave Chinner <david@fromorbit.com>
Cc: linux-mm@kvack.org, linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org,
	Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>,
	Christian Ehrhardt <ehrhardt@linux.vnet.ibm.com>,
	Johannes Weiner <hannes@cmpxchg.org>,
	Wu Fengguang <fengguang.wu@intel.com>, Jan Kara <jack@suse.cz>,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: [PATCH 3/3] writeback: Do not congestion sleep when there are no congested BDIs
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2010 10:33:55 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20100827093355.GC19556@csn.ul.ie> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20100827051316.GH705@dastard>

On Fri, Aug 27, 2010 at 03:13:16PM +1000, Dave Chinner wrote:
> On Thu, Aug 26, 2010 at 04:14:16PM +0100, Mel Gorman wrote:
> > If congestion_wait() is called with no BDIs congested, the caller will
> > sleep for the full timeout and this is an unnecessary sleep.
> 
> That, I think, is an invalid assumption. congestion_wait is used in
> some places as a backoff mechanism that waits for some IO work to be
> done, with congestion disappearing being a indication that progress
> has been made and so we can retry sooner than the entire timeout.
> 

As it's write IO rather than some IO, I wonder if that's really the
right thing to do. However, I accept your (and others) point that
converting all congestion_wait() callers may be too much of a change.

> For example, if _xfs_buf_lookup_pages() fails to allocate page cache
> pages for a buffer, it will kick the xfsbufd to writeback dirty
> buffers (so they can be freed) and immediately enter
> congestion_wait(). If there isn't congestion when we enter
> congestion_wait(), we still want to give the xfsbufds a chance to
> clean some pages before we retry the allocation for the new buffer.
> Removing the congestion_wait() sleep behaviour will effectively
> _increase_ memory pressure with XFS on fast disk subsystems because
> it now won't backoff between failed allocation attempts...
> 
> Perhaps a congestion_wait_iff_congested() variant is needed for the
> VM? I can certainly see how it benefits the VM from a latency
> perspective, but it is the opposite behaviour that is expected in
> other places...
> 

I'm added a wait_iff_congested() and updated a few of the VM callers. I changed
a fairly minimum number of what appeared to be the obvious ones to change.

Thanks

-- 
Mel Gorman
Part-time Phd Student                          Linux Technology Center
University of Limerick                         IBM Dublin Software Lab

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  reply	other threads:[~2010-08-27  9:34 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 75+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2010-08-26 15:14 [RFC PATCH 0/3] Do not wait the full timeout on congestion_wait when there is no congestion Mel Gorman
2010-08-26 15:14 ` Mel Gorman
2010-08-26 15:14 ` [PATCH 1/3] writeback: Account for time spent congestion_waited Mel Gorman
2010-08-26 15:14   ` Mel Gorman
2010-08-26 17:23   ` Minchan Kim
2010-08-26 17:23     ` Minchan Kim
2010-08-26 18:10   ` Johannes Weiner
2010-08-26 18:10     ` Johannes Weiner
2010-08-26 15:14 ` [PATCH 2/3] writeback: Record if the congestion was unnecessary Mel Gorman
2010-08-26 15:14   ` Mel Gorman
2010-08-26 17:35   ` Minchan Kim
2010-08-26 17:35     ` Minchan Kim
2010-08-26 17:41     ` Mel Gorman
2010-08-26 17:41       ` Mel Gorman
2010-08-26 18:29   ` Johannes Weiner
2010-08-26 18:29     ` Johannes Weiner
2010-08-26 20:31     ` Mel Gorman
2010-08-26 20:31       ` Mel Gorman
2010-08-27  2:12       ` Shaohua Li
2010-08-27  2:12         ` Shaohua Li
2010-08-27  9:20         ` Mel Gorman
2010-08-27  9:20           ` Mel Gorman
2010-08-27  8:16       ` Johannes Weiner
2010-08-27  8:16         ` Johannes Weiner
2010-08-27  9:24         ` Mel Gorman
2010-08-27  9:24           ` Mel Gorman
2010-08-30 13:19           ` Johannes Weiner
2010-08-31 15:02             ` Mel Gorman
2010-08-31 15:02               ` Mel Gorman
2010-09-02 15:49               ` Johannes Weiner
2010-09-02 15:49                 ` Johannes Weiner
2010-09-02 18:28                 ` Mel Gorman
2010-09-02 18:28                   ` Mel Gorman
2010-08-29 16:03     ` Minchan Kim
2010-08-29 16:03       ` Minchan Kim
2010-08-26 15:14 ` [PATCH 3/3] writeback: Do not congestion sleep when there are no congested BDIs Mel Gorman
2010-08-26 15:14   ` Mel Gorman
2010-08-26 17:38   ` Minchan Kim
2010-08-26 17:38     ` Minchan Kim
2010-08-26 17:42     ` Mel Gorman
2010-08-26 17:42       ` Mel Gorman
2010-08-26 18:17       ` Johannes Weiner
2010-08-26 18:17         ` Johannes Weiner
2010-08-26 20:23         ` Mel Gorman
2010-08-26 20:23           ` Mel Gorman
2010-08-27  1:11           ` Wu Fengguang
2010-08-27  1:11             ` Wu Fengguang
2010-08-27  9:34             ` Mel Gorman
2010-08-27  9:34               ` Mel Gorman
2010-08-27  1:42         ` Wu Fengguang
2010-08-27  1:42           ` Wu Fengguang
2010-08-27  9:37           ` Mel Gorman
2010-08-27  9:37             ` Mel Gorman
2010-08-27  5:13   ` Dave Chinner
2010-08-27  5:13     ` Dave Chinner
2010-08-27  9:33     ` Mel Gorman [this message]
2010-08-27  9:33       ` Mel Gorman
2010-08-26 17:20 ` [RFC PATCH 0/3] Do not wait the full timeout on congestion_wait when there is no congestion Minchan Kim
2010-08-26 17:20   ` Minchan Kim
2010-08-26 17:31   ` Mel Gorman
2010-08-26 17:31     ` Mel Gorman
2010-08-26 17:50     ` Minchan Kim
2010-08-26 17:50       ` Minchan Kim
2010-08-27  1:21   ` Wu Fengguang
2010-08-27  1:21     ` Wu Fengguang
2010-08-27  1:41     ` Minchan Kim
2010-08-27  1:41       ` Minchan Kim
2010-08-27  1:50       ` Wu Fengguang
2010-08-27  1:50         ` Wu Fengguang
2010-08-27  2:02         ` Minchan Kim
2010-08-27  2:02           ` Minchan Kim
2010-08-27  4:34           ` Wu Fengguang
2010-08-27  4:34             ` Wu Fengguang
2010-08-27  9:38     ` Mel Gorman
2010-08-27  9:38       ` Mel Gorman

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