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From: Tejun Heo <tj-DgEjT+Ai2ygdnm+yROfE0A@public.gmane.org>
To: Vivek Goyal <vgoyal-H+wXaHxf7aLQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
Cc: Neil Horman <nhorman-2XuSBdqkA4R54TAoqtyWWQ@public.gmane.org>,
	containers-cunTk1MwBs9QetFLy7KEm3xJsTq8ys+cHZ5vskTnxNA@public.gmane.org,
	Serge Hallyn
	<serge.hallyn-GeWIH/nMZzLQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>,
	linux-kernel-u79uwXL29TY76Z2rM5mHXA@public.gmane.org,
	Michal Hocko <mhocko-AlSwsSmVLrQ@public.gmane.org>,
	Paul Mackerras <paulus-eUNUBHrolfbYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org>,
	"Aneesh Kumar K.V"
	<aneesh.kumar-23VcF4HTsmIX0ybBhKVfKdBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org>,
	Arnaldo Carvalho de Melo
	<acme-f8uhVLnGfZaxAyOMLChx1axOck334EZe@public.gmane.org>,
	Johannes Weiner <hannes-druUgvl0LCNAfugRpC6u6w@public.gmane.org>,
	Thomas Graf <tgraf-G/eBtMaohhA@public.gmane.org>,
	cgroups-u79uwXL29TY76Z2rM5mHXA@public.gmane.org,
	Paul Turner <pjt-hpIqsD4AKlfQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>,
	Ingo Molnar <mingo-H+wXaHxf7aLQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
Subject: Re: [RFC] cgroup TODOs
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2012 09:40:02 -0700	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20120917164002.GA18677@google.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20120917150518.GB5094-H+wXaHxf7aLQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>

Hello,

On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 11:05:18AM -0400, Vivek Goyal wrote:
> As a developer, I will be happy to support only one model and keep code
> simple. I am only concerned that for blkcg we have still not charted
> out a clear migration path. The warning message your patch is giving
> out will work only if we decide to not treat task and groups at same
> level.

It may not be enough but it still is in the right direction.

> > Another problem is that configuration isn't contained in cgroup
> > proper.  We need a way to assign weights to individual tasks which can
> > be somehow directly compared against group weights.  cpu cooks
> > priority for this and blkcg may be able to cook ioprio but it's nasty
> > and unobvious.  Also, let's say we grow network bandwidth controller
> > for whatever reason.  What value are we gonna use?
> 
> So if somebody cares about settting SO_PRIORITY for traffic originating
> from a tasks, move it into a cgroup. Otherwise they all get default
> priority.

I don't know.  Do we wanna add, say, prctl for memory weight too?

> So to me, leaving this decision to userspace based on their requirement
> makes sense.

Leaving too many decisions to userland is one of the reasons that got
us into this mess, so I'm not sold on flexibility for flexibility's
sake.

> Yes, creating a hidden group for tasks in current group should not be
> hard from implementation point of view. But again, I am concerned about
> configuration of hidden group and I also don't like the idea of taking
> flexibility away from user to treat tasks and group at same level.

I don't know.  Create a reserved directory for it?  I do like the idea
of taking flexibility away form user unless it's actually useful but
am a bit worried we might be too late for that. :(

Thanks.

-- 
tejun

WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Tejun Heo <tj@kernel.org>
To: Vivek Goyal <vgoyal@redhat.com>
Cc: containers@lists.linux-foundation.org, cgroups@vger.kernel.org,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, Li Zefan <lizefan@huawei.com>,
	Michal Hocko <mhocko@suse.cz>,
	Glauber Costa <glommer@parallels.com>,
	Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org>,
	Paul Turner <pjt@google.com>,
	Johannes Weiner <hannes@cmpxchg.org>, Thomas Graf <tgraf@suug.ch>,
	Paul Mackerras <paulus@samba.org>, Ingo Molnar <mingo@redhat.com>,
	Arnaldo Carvalho de Melo <acme@ghostprotocols.net>,
	Neil Horman <nhorman@tuxdriver.com>,
	"Aneesh Kumar K.V" <aneesh.kumar@linux.vnet.ibm.com>,
	Serge Hallyn <serge.hallyn@ubuntu.com>
Subject: Re: [RFC] cgroup TODOs
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2012 09:40:02 -0700	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20120917164002.GA18677@google.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20120917150518.GB5094@redhat.com>

Hello,

On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 11:05:18AM -0400, Vivek Goyal wrote:
> As a developer, I will be happy to support only one model and keep code
> simple. I am only concerned that for blkcg we have still not charted
> out a clear migration path. The warning message your patch is giving
> out will work only if we decide to not treat task and groups at same
> level.

It may not be enough but it still is in the right direction.

> > Another problem is that configuration isn't contained in cgroup
> > proper.  We need a way to assign weights to individual tasks which can
> > be somehow directly compared against group weights.  cpu cooks
> > priority for this and blkcg may be able to cook ioprio but it's nasty
> > and unobvious.  Also, let's say we grow network bandwidth controller
> > for whatever reason.  What value are we gonna use?
> 
> So if somebody cares about settting SO_PRIORITY for traffic originating
> from a tasks, move it into a cgroup. Otherwise they all get default
> priority.

I don't know.  Do we wanna add, say, prctl for memory weight too?

> So to me, leaving this decision to userspace based on their requirement
> makes sense.

Leaving too many decisions to userland is one of the reasons that got
us into this mess, so I'm not sold on flexibility for flexibility's
sake.

> Yes, creating a hidden group for tasks in current group should not be
> hard from implementation point of view. But again, I am concerned about
> configuration of hidden group and I also don't like the idea of taking
> flexibility away from user to treat tasks and group at same level.

I don't know.  Create a reserved directory for it?  I do like the idea
of taking flexibility away form user unless it's actually useful but
am a bit worried we might be too late for that. :(

Thanks.

-- 
tejun

  parent reply	other threads:[~2012-09-17 16:40 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 163+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2012-09-13 20:58 [RFC] cgroup TODOs Tejun Heo
2012-09-13 20:58 ` Tejun Heo
2012-09-14 11:15 ` Peter Zijlstra
2012-09-14 12:54   ` Daniel P. Berrange
2012-09-14 12:54     ` Daniel P. Berrange
     [not found]     ` <20120914125427.GW6819-H+wXaHxf7aLQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
2012-09-14  8:55       ` Glauber Costa
2012-09-14 17:53   ` Tejun Heo
2012-09-14 17:53     ` Tejun Heo
2012-09-14 17:53   ` Tejun Heo
     [not found] ` <20120913205827.GO7677-hpIqsD4AKlfQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
2012-09-14  8:16   ` Glauber Costa
     [not found]     ` <5052E7DF.7040000-bzQdu9zFT3WakBO8gow8eQ@public.gmane.org>
2012-09-14  9:12       ` Li Zefan
2012-09-14  9:12         ` Li Zefan
     [not found]         ` <5052F4FF.6070508-hv44wF8Li93QT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
2012-09-14 11:22           ` Peter Zijlstra
2012-09-14 11:22             ` Peter Zijlstra
2012-09-14 17:59           ` Tejun Heo
2012-09-14 17:59             ` Tejun Heo
     [not found]             ` <20120914175944.GF17747-hpIqsD4AKlfQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
2012-09-14 18:23               ` Peter Zijlstra
2012-09-14 18:23                 ` Peter Zijlstra
2012-09-14 18:33                 ` Tejun Heo
2012-09-14 18:33                   ` Tejun Heo
2012-09-14 17:43       ` Tejun Heo
2012-09-14 17:43         ` Tejun Heo
     [not found]         ` <20120914174329.GD17747-hpIqsD4AKlfQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
2012-09-17  8:50           ` Glauber Costa
2012-09-17  8:50             ` Glauber Costa
     [not found]             ` <5056E467.2090108-bzQdu9zFT3WakBO8gow8eQ@public.gmane.org>
2012-09-17 17:21               ` Tejun Heo
2012-09-17 17:21                 ` Tejun Heo
     [not found]                 ` <20120917172123.GB18677-hpIqsD4AKlfQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
2012-09-18  8:16                   ` Glauber Costa
2012-09-17  8:50           ` Glauber Costa
2012-09-14  9:04   ` Mike Galbraith
2012-09-14  9:04     ` Mike Galbraith
     [not found]     ` <1347613484.4340.132.camel-YqMYhexLQo31wTEvPJ5Q0F6hYfS7NtTn@public.gmane.org>
2012-09-14 17:17       ` Tejun Heo
2012-09-14 17:17         ` Tejun Heo
2012-09-14  9:04   ` Mike Galbraith
2012-09-14  9:10   ` Daniel P. Berrange
2012-09-14  9:10     ` Daniel P. Berrange
     [not found]     ` <20120914091032.GA6819-H+wXaHxf7aLQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
2012-09-14  9:08       ` Glauber Costa
2012-09-14 13:58       ` Vivek Goyal
2012-09-14 13:58         ` Vivek Goyal
     [not found]         ` <20120914135830.GB6221-H+wXaHxf7aLQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
2012-09-14 19:29           ` Tejun Heo
2012-09-14 19:29             ` Tejun Heo
     [not found]             ` <20120914192935.GO17747-hpIqsD4AKlfQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
2012-09-14 21:51               ` Kay Sievers
2012-09-14 21:51                 ` Kay Sievers
2012-09-14 11:15   ` Peter Zijlstra
2012-09-14 14:25   ` Vivek Goyal
2012-09-14 14:25     ` Vivek Goyal
     [not found]     ` <20120914142539.GC6221-H+wXaHxf7aLQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
2012-09-14 14:53       ` Peter Zijlstra
2012-09-14 14:53         ` Peter Zijlstra
2012-09-14 15:14         ` Vivek Goyal
2012-09-14 15:14           ` Vivek Goyal
     [not found]           ` <20120914151447.GD6221-H+wXaHxf7aLQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
2012-09-14 21:57             ` Tejun Heo
2012-09-14 21:57               ` Tejun Heo
     [not found]               ` <20120914215701.GW17747-hpIqsD4AKlfQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
2012-09-17 15:27                 ` Vivek Goyal
2012-09-17 15:27                   ` Vivek Goyal
2012-09-18 18:08                 ` Vivek Goyal
2012-09-18 18:08                   ` Vivek Goyal
2012-09-17  8:55             ` Glauber Costa
2012-09-14 21:39       ` Tejun Heo
2012-09-14 21:39         ` Tejun Heo
     [not found]         ` <20120914213938.GV17747-hpIqsD4AKlfQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
2012-09-17 15:05           ` Vivek Goyal
2012-09-17 15:05             ` Vivek Goyal
     [not found]             ` <20120917150518.GB5094-H+wXaHxf7aLQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
2012-09-17 16:40               ` Tejun Heo [this message]
2012-09-17 16:40                 ` Tejun Heo
2012-09-14 15:03   ` Michal Hocko
2012-09-14 15:03   ` Michal Hocko
2012-09-14 15:03     ` Michal Hocko
     [not found]     ` <20120914150306.GQ28039-2MMpYkNvuYDjFM9bn6wA6Q@public.gmane.org>
2012-09-19 14:02       ` Michal Hocko
2012-09-19 14:02         ` Michal Hocko
     [not found]         ` <20120919140203.GA5398-2MMpYkNvuYDjFM9bn6wA6Q@public.gmane.org>
2012-09-19 14:03           ` [PATCH 2.6.32] memcg: warn on deeper hierarchies with use_hierarchy==0 Michal Hocko
2012-09-19 14:03             ` Michal Hocko
     [not found]             ` <20120919140308.GB5398-2MMpYkNvuYDjFM9bn6wA6Q@public.gmane.org>
2012-09-19 19:38               ` David Rientjes
2012-09-19 19:38                 ` David Rientjes
     [not found]                 ` <alpine.DEB.2.00.1209191237020.749-X6Q0R45D7oAcqpCFd4KODRPsWskHk0ljAL8bYrjMMd8@public.gmane.org>
2012-09-20 13:24                   ` Michal Hocko
2012-09-20 13:24                     ` Michal Hocko
     [not found]                     ` <20120920132400.GC23872-2MMpYkNvuYDjFM9bn6wA6Q@public.gmane.org>
2012-09-20 22:33                       ` David Rientjes
2012-09-20 22:33                         ` David Rientjes
     [not found]                         ` <alpine.DEB.2.00.1209201531250.17455-X6Q0R45D7oAcqpCFd4KODRPsWskHk0ljAL8bYrjMMd8@public.gmane.org>
2012-09-21  7:16                           ` Michal Hocko
2012-09-21  7:16                           ` Michal Hocko
2012-09-21  7:16                             ` Michal Hocko
2012-09-20 13:24                   ` Michal Hocko
2012-09-19 14:03           ` [PATCH 3.0] " Michal Hocko
2012-09-19 14:03             ` Michal Hocko
2012-09-19 14:05           ` [PATCH 3.2+] " Michal Hocko
2012-09-19 14:05           ` Michal Hocko
2012-09-19 14:05             ` Michal Hocko
2012-09-19 14:02       ` [RFC] cgroup TODOs Michal Hocko
2012-09-14 18:07   ` Vivek Goyal
2012-09-14 18:07     ` Vivek Goyal
     [not found]     ` <20120914180754.GF6221-H+wXaHxf7aLQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
2012-09-14 18:53       ` Tejun Heo
2012-09-14 18:53         ` Tejun Heo
     [not found]         ` <20120914185324.GI17747-hpIqsD4AKlfQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
2012-09-14 19:28           ` Vivek Goyal
2012-09-14 19:28             ` Vivek Goyal
     [not found]             ` <20120914192840.GG6221-H+wXaHxf7aLQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
2012-09-14 19:44               ` Tejun Heo
2012-09-14 19:44                 ` Tejun Heo
     [not found]                 ` <20120914194439.GP17747-hpIqsD4AKlfQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
2012-09-14 19:49                   ` Tejun Heo
2012-09-14 19:49                     ` Tejun Heo
     [not found]                     ` <20120914194950.GQ17747-hpIqsD4AKlfQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
2012-09-14 20:39                       ` Tejun Heo
2012-09-14 20:39                       ` Tejun Heo
2012-09-14 20:39                         ` Tejun Heo
     [not found]                         ` <20120914203925.GR17747-hpIqsD4AKlfQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
2012-09-17  8:40                           ` Glauber Costa
2012-09-17  8:40                             ` Glauber Costa
     [not found]                             ` <5056E1FC.1090508-bzQdu9zFT3WakBO8gow8eQ@public.gmane.org>
2012-09-17 17:30                               ` Tejun Heo
2012-09-17 17:30                                 ` Tejun Heo
2012-09-17 14:37                           ` Vivek Goyal
2012-09-17 14:37                             ` Vivek Goyal
2012-09-14 19:44               ` Tejun Heo
2012-09-14 18:36   ` Aristeu Rozanski
2012-09-14 18:36     ` Aristeu Rozanski
     [not found]     ` <20120914183641.GA2191-YqEmrenMroyQb786VAuzj9i2O/JbrIOy@public.gmane.org>
2012-09-14 18:54       ` Tejun Heo
2012-09-14 18:54         ` Tejun Heo
2012-09-15  2:20       ` Serge E. Hallyn
2012-09-15  2:20         ` Serge E. Hallyn
     [not found]         ` <20120915022037.GA6438-7LNsyQBKDXoIagZqoN9o3w@public.gmane.org>
2012-09-15  9:27           ` Controlling devices and device namespaces Eric W. Biederman
2012-09-15  9:27             ` Eric W. Biederman
     [not found]             ` <87wqzv7i08.fsf_-_-aS9lmoZGLiVWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org>
2012-09-15 22:05               ` Serge E. Hallyn
2012-09-15 22:05                 ` Serge E. Hallyn
     [not found]                 ` <20120915220520.GA11364-7LNsyQBKDXoIagZqoN9o3w@public.gmane.org>
2012-09-16  0:24                   ` Eric W. Biederman
2012-09-16  0:24                     ` Eric W. Biederman
     [not found]                     ` <87y5kazuez.fsf-aS9lmoZGLiVWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org>
2012-09-16  3:31                       ` Serge E. Hallyn
2012-09-16  3:31                         ` Serge E. Hallyn
2012-09-16 11:21                       ` Alan Cox
2012-09-16 11:21                         ` Alan Cox
     [not found]                         ` <20120916122112.3f16178d-38n7/U1jhRXW96NNrWNlrekiAK3p4hvP@public.gmane.org>
2012-09-16 11:56                           ` Eric W. Biederman
2012-09-16 11:56                             ` Eric W. Biederman
     [not found]                             ` <87sjaiuqp5.fsf-aS9lmoZGLiVWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org>
2012-09-16 12:17                               ` Eric W. Biederman
2012-09-16 12:17                                 ` Eric W. Biederman
     [not found]                                 ` <87d31mupp3.fsf-aS9lmoZGLiVWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org>
2012-09-16 13:32                                   ` Serge Hallyn
2012-09-16 13:32                                     ` Serge Hallyn
     [not found]                                     ` <5055D4D1.3070407-A9i7LUbDfNHQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
2012-09-16 14:23                                       ` Eric W. Biederman
2012-09-16 14:23                                         ` Eric W. Biederman
     [not found]                                         ` <87k3vuqc5l.fsf-aS9lmoZGLiVWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org>
2012-09-16 16:13                                           ` Alan Cox
2012-09-16 16:13                                             ` Alan Cox
     [not found]                                             ` <20120916171316.517ad0fd-38n7/U1jhRXW96NNrWNlrekiAK3p4hvP@public.gmane.org>
2012-09-16 17:49                                               ` Eric W. Biederman
2012-09-16 17:49                                                 ` Eric W. Biederman
2012-09-16 16:15                                           ` Serge Hallyn
2012-09-16 16:15                                             ` Serge Hallyn
     [not found]                                             ` <5055FB2A.1020103-A9i7LUbDfNHQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
2012-09-16 16:53                                               ` Eric W. Biederman
2012-09-16 16:53                                                 ` Eric W. Biederman
2012-09-16  8:19       ` [RFC] cgroup TODOs James Bottomley
2012-09-16  8:19         ` James Bottomley
     [not found]         ` <1347783557.2463.1.camel-sFMDBYUN5F8GjUHQrlYNx2Wm91YjaHnnhRte9Li2A+AAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
2012-09-16 14:41           ` Eric W. Biederman
2012-09-16 14:41           ` Eric W. Biederman
2012-09-16 14:41             ` Eric W. Biederman
2012-09-17 13:21           ` Aristeu Rozanski
2012-09-17 13:21             ` Aristeu Rozanski
2012-09-16  8:19       ` James Bottomley
2012-09-14 18:36   ` Aristeu Rozanski
2012-09-14 22:03   ` Dhaval Giani
2012-09-14 22:03     ` Dhaval Giani
     [not found]     ` <CAPhKKr8wDLrcWHLTRq1M7gU_6CGNxzzF83zJo2WZ5vrY7h8Qyw-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
2012-09-14 22:06       ` Tejun Heo
2012-09-14 22:06         ` Tejun Heo
2012-09-14 22:03   ` Dhaval Giani
2012-09-20  1:33   ` Andy Lutomirski
2012-09-20  1:33   ` Andy Lutomirski
2012-09-20  1:33     ` Andy Lutomirski
     [not found]     ` <505A725B.2080901-kltTT9wpgjJwATOyAt5JVQ@public.gmane.org>
2012-09-20 18:26       ` Tejun Heo
2012-09-20 18:26         ` Tejun Heo
     [not found]         ` <20120920182651.GH28934-hpIqsD4AKlfQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
2012-09-20 18:39           ` Andy Lutomirski
2012-09-20 18:39             ` Andy Lutomirski
2012-09-20 18:39           ` Andy Lutomirski
2012-09-20 18:26       ` Tejun Heo
2012-09-21 21:40   ` Tejun Heo
2012-09-21 21:40   ` Tejun Heo
2012-09-21 21:40     ` Tejun Heo

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