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From: Minchan Kim <minchan@kernel.org>
To: Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>
Cc: Dave Chinner <david@fromorbit.com>,
	Linux Kernel Mailing List <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>,
	linux-mm <linux-mm@kvack.org>, "H. Peter Anvin" <hpa@zytor.com>,
	Ingo Molnar <mingo@kernel.org>,
	Peter Zijlstra <a.p.zijlstra@chello.nl>,
	Mel Gorman <mgorman@suse.de>, Rik van Riel <riel@redhat.com>,
	Johannes Weiner <hannes@cmpxchg.org>,
	Hugh Dickins <hughd@google.com>,
	Rusty Russell <rusty@rustcorp.com.au>,
	"Michael S. Tsirkin" <mst@redhat.com>,
	Dave Hansen <dave.hansen@intel.com>,
	Steven Rostedt <rostedt@goodmis.org>
Subject: Re: [RFC 2/2] x86_64: expand kernel stack to 16K
Date: Fri, 30 May 2014 15:21:05 +0900	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20140530062105.GT10092@bbox> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CA+55aFz84toJOqnuphA99c0av1nLzxcxfjiTwhBbxzaNs3J6NQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, May 29, 2014 at 06:24:02PM -0700, Linus Torvalds wrote:
> On Thu, May 29, 2014 at 5:50 PM, Minchan Kim <minchan@kernel.org> wrote:
> >>
> >> You could also try Dave's patch, and _not_ do my mm/vmscan.c part.
> >
> > Sure. While I write this, Rusty's test was crached so I will try Dave's patch,
> > them yours except vmscan.c part.
> 
> Looking more at Dave's patch (well, description), I don't think there
> is any way in hell we can ever apply it. If I read it right, it will
> cause all IO that overflows the max request count to go through the
> scheduler to get it flushed. Maybe I misread it, but that's definitely
> not acceptable. Maybe it's not noticeable with a slow rotational
> device, but modern ssd hardware? No way.
> 
> I'd *much* rather slow down the swap side. Not "real IO". So I think
> my mm/vmscan.c patch is preferable (but yes, it might require some
> work to make kswapd do better).
> 
> So you can try Dave's patch just to see what it does for stack depth,
> but other than that it looks unacceptable unless I misread things.
> 
>              Linus

I tested below patch and the result is endless OOM although there are
lots of anon pages and empty space of swap.

I guess __alloc_pages_direct_reclaim couldn't proceed due to anon pages
once VM drop most of file-backed pages, then go to OOM.

---
 mm/backing-dev.c | 25 +++++++++++++++----------
 mm/vmscan.c      |  4 +---
 2 files changed, 16 insertions(+), 13 deletions(-)

diff --git a/mm/backing-dev.c b/mm/backing-dev.c
index ce682f7a4f29..2762b16404bd 100644
--- a/mm/backing-dev.c
+++ b/mm/backing-dev.c
@@ -11,6 +11,7 @@
 #include <linux/writeback.h>
 #include <linux/device.h>
 #include <trace/events/writeback.h>
+#include <linux/blkdev.h>
 
 static atomic_long_t bdi_seq = ATOMIC_LONG_INIT(0);
 
@@ -565,6 +566,18 @@ void set_bdi_congested(struct backing_dev_info *bdi, int sync)
 }
 EXPORT_SYMBOL(set_bdi_congested);
 
+static long congestion_timeout(int sync, long timeout)
+{
+	long ret;
+	DEFINE_WAIT(wait);
+
+	wait_queue_head_t *wqh = &congestion_wqh[sync];
+	prepare_to_wait(wqh, &wait, TASK_UNINTERRUPTIBLE);
+	ret = schedule_timeout(timeout);
+	finish_wait(wqh, &wait);
+	return ret;
+}
+
 /**
  * congestion_wait - wait for a backing_dev to become uncongested
  * @sync: SYNC or ASYNC IO
@@ -578,12 +591,8 @@ long congestion_wait(int sync, long timeout)
 {
 	long ret;
 	unsigned long start = jiffies;
-	DEFINE_WAIT(wait);
-	wait_queue_head_t *wqh = &congestion_wqh[sync];
 
-	prepare_to_wait(wqh, &wait, TASK_UNINTERRUPTIBLE);
-	ret = io_schedule_timeout(timeout);
-	finish_wait(wqh, &wait);
+	ret = congestion_timeout(sync,timeout);
 
 	trace_writeback_congestion_wait(jiffies_to_usecs(timeout),
 					jiffies_to_usecs(jiffies - start));
@@ -614,8 +623,6 @@ long wait_iff_congested(struct zone *zone, int sync, long timeout)
 {
 	long ret;
 	unsigned long start = jiffies;
-	DEFINE_WAIT(wait);
-	wait_queue_head_t *wqh = &congestion_wqh[sync];
 
 	/*
 	 * If there is no congestion, or heavy congestion is not being
@@ -635,9 +642,7 @@ long wait_iff_congested(struct zone *zone, int sync, long timeout)
 	}
 
 	/* Sleep until uncongested or a write happens */
-	prepare_to_wait(wqh, &wait, TASK_UNINTERRUPTIBLE);
-	ret = io_schedule_timeout(timeout);
-	finish_wait(wqh, &wait);
+	ret = congestion_timeout(sync, timeout);
 
 out:
 	trace_writeback_wait_iff_congested(jiffies_to_usecs(timeout),
diff --git a/mm/vmscan.c b/mm/vmscan.c
index a9c74b409681..e4ad7cd1885b 100644
--- a/mm/vmscan.c
+++ b/mm/vmscan.c
@@ -975,9 +975,7 @@ static unsigned long shrink_page_list(struct list_head *page_list,
 			 * avoid risk of stack overflow but only writeback
 			 * if many dirty pages have been encountered.
 			 */
-			if (page_is_file_cache(page) &&
-					(!current_is_kswapd() ||
-					 !zone_is_reclaim_dirty(zone))) {
+			if (!current_is_kswapd() || !zone_is_reclaim_dirty(zone)) {
 				/*
 				 * Immediately reclaim when written back.
 				 * Similar in principal to deactivate_page()
-- 
1.9.2

-- 
Kind regards,
Minchan Kim

--
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WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Minchan Kim <minchan@kernel.org>
To: Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>
Cc: Dave Chinner <david@fromorbit.com>,
	Linux Kernel Mailing List <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>,
	linux-mm <linux-mm@kvack.org>, "H. Peter Anvin" <hpa@zytor.com>,
	Ingo Molnar <mingo@kernel.org>,
	Peter Zijlstra <a.p.zijlstra@chello.nl>,
	Mel Gorman <mgorman@suse.de>, Rik van Riel <riel@redhat.com>,
	Johannes Weiner <hannes@cmpxchg.org>,
	Hugh Dickins <hughd@google.com>,
	Rusty Russell <rusty@rustcorp.com.au>,
	"Michael S. Tsirkin" <mst@redhat.com>,
	Dave Hansen <dave.hansen@intel.com>,
	Steven Rostedt <rostedt@goodmis.org>
Subject: Re: [RFC 2/2] x86_64: expand kernel stack to 16K
Date: Fri, 30 May 2014 15:21:05 +0900	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20140530062105.GT10092@bbox> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CA+55aFz84toJOqnuphA99c0av1nLzxcxfjiTwhBbxzaNs3J6NQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, May 29, 2014 at 06:24:02PM -0700, Linus Torvalds wrote:
> On Thu, May 29, 2014 at 5:50 PM, Minchan Kim <minchan@kernel.org> wrote:
> >>
> >> You could also try Dave's patch, and _not_ do my mm/vmscan.c part.
> >
> > Sure. While I write this, Rusty's test was crached so I will try Dave's patch,
> > them yours except vmscan.c part.
> 
> Looking more at Dave's patch (well, description), I don't think there
> is any way in hell we can ever apply it. If I read it right, it will
> cause all IO that overflows the max request count to go through the
> scheduler to get it flushed. Maybe I misread it, but that's definitely
> not acceptable. Maybe it's not noticeable with a slow rotational
> device, but modern ssd hardware? No way.
> 
> I'd *much* rather slow down the swap side. Not "real IO". So I think
> my mm/vmscan.c patch is preferable (but yes, it might require some
> work to make kswapd do better).
> 
> So you can try Dave's patch just to see what it does for stack depth,
> but other than that it looks unacceptable unless I misread things.
> 
>              Linus

I tested below patch and the result is endless OOM although there are
lots of anon pages and empty space of swap.

I guess __alloc_pages_direct_reclaim couldn't proceed due to anon pages
once VM drop most of file-backed pages, then go to OOM.

---
 mm/backing-dev.c | 25 +++++++++++++++----------
 mm/vmscan.c      |  4 +---
 2 files changed, 16 insertions(+), 13 deletions(-)

diff --git a/mm/backing-dev.c b/mm/backing-dev.c
index ce682f7a4f29..2762b16404bd 100644
--- a/mm/backing-dev.c
+++ b/mm/backing-dev.c
@@ -11,6 +11,7 @@
 #include <linux/writeback.h>
 #include <linux/device.h>
 #include <trace/events/writeback.h>
+#include <linux/blkdev.h>
 
 static atomic_long_t bdi_seq = ATOMIC_LONG_INIT(0);
 
@@ -565,6 +566,18 @@ void set_bdi_congested(struct backing_dev_info *bdi, int sync)
 }
 EXPORT_SYMBOL(set_bdi_congested);
 
+static long congestion_timeout(int sync, long timeout)
+{
+	long ret;
+	DEFINE_WAIT(wait);
+
+	wait_queue_head_t *wqh = &congestion_wqh[sync];
+	prepare_to_wait(wqh, &wait, TASK_UNINTERRUPTIBLE);
+	ret = schedule_timeout(timeout);
+	finish_wait(wqh, &wait);
+	return ret;
+}
+
 /**
  * congestion_wait - wait for a backing_dev to become uncongested
  * @sync: SYNC or ASYNC IO
@@ -578,12 +591,8 @@ long congestion_wait(int sync, long timeout)
 {
 	long ret;
 	unsigned long start = jiffies;
-	DEFINE_WAIT(wait);
-	wait_queue_head_t *wqh = &congestion_wqh[sync];
 
-	prepare_to_wait(wqh, &wait, TASK_UNINTERRUPTIBLE);
-	ret = io_schedule_timeout(timeout);
-	finish_wait(wqh, &wait);
+	ret = congestion_timeout(sync,timeout);
 
 	trace_writeback_congestion_wait(jiffies_to_usecs(timeout),
 					jiffies_to_usecs(jiffies - start));
@@ -614,8 +623,6 @@ long wait_iff_congested(struct zone *zone, int sync, long timeout)
 {
 	long ret;
 	unsigned long start = jiffies;
-	DEFINE_WAIT(wait);
-	wait_queue_head_t *wqh = &congestion_wqh[sync];
 
 	/*
 	 * If there is no congestion, or heavy congestion is not being
@@ -635,9 +642,7 @@ long wait_iff_congested(struct zone *zone, int sync, long timeout)
 	}
 
 	/* Sleep until uncongested or a write happens */
-	prepare_to_wait(wqh, &wait, TASK_UNINTERRUPTIBLE);
-	ret = io_schedule_timeout(timeout);
-	finish_wait(wqh, &wait);
+	ret = congestion_timeout(sync, timeout);
 
 out:
 	trace_writeback_wait_iff_congested(jiffies_to_usecs(timeout),
diff --git a/mm/vmscan.c b/mm/vmscan.c
index a9c74b409681..e4ad7cd1885b 100644
--- a/mm/vmscan.c
+++ b/mm/vmscan.c
@@ -975,9 +975,7 @@ static unsigned long shrink_page_list(struct list_head *page_list,
 			 * avoid risk of stack overflow but only writeback
 			 * if many dirty pages have been encountered.
 			 */
-			if (page_is_file_cache(page) &&
-					(!current_is_kswapd() ||
-					 !zone_is_reclaim_dirty(zone))) {
+			if (!current_is_kswapd() || !zone_is_reclaim_dirty(zone)) {
 				/*
 				 * Immediately reclaim when written back.
 				 * Similar in principal to deactivate_page()
-- 
1.9.2

-- 
Kind regards,
Minchan Kim

  parent reply	other threads:[~2014-05-30  6:20 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 205+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2014-05-28  6:53 [PATCH 1/2] ftrace: print stack usage right before Oops Minchan Kim
2014-05-28  6:53 ` Minchan Kim
2014-05-28  6:53 ` [RFC 2/2] x86_64: expand kernel stack to 16K Minchan Kim
2014-05-28  6:53   ` Minchan Kim
2014-05-28  8:37   ` Dave Chinner
2014-05-28  8:37     ` Dave Chinner
2014-05-28  8:37     ` Dave Chinner
2014-05-28  9:13     ` Dave Chinner
2014-05-28  9:13       ` Dave Chinner
2014-05-28  9:13       ` Dave Chinner
2014-05-28 16:06       ` Johannes Weiner
2014-05-28 16:06         ` Johannes Weiner
2014-05-28 16:06         ` Johannes Weiner
2014-05-28 21:55         ` Dave Chinner
2014-05-28 21:55           ` Dave Chinner
2014-05-28 21:55           ` Dave Chinner
2014-05-29  6:06         ` Minchan Kim
2014-05-29  6:06           ` Minchan Kim
2014-05-29  6:06           ` Minchan Kim
2014-05-28  9:04   ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2014-05-28  9:04     ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2014-05-29  1:09     ` Minchan Kim
2014-05-29  2:44       ` Steven Rostedt
2014-05-29  2:44         ` Steven Rostedt
2014-05-29  4:11         ` Minchan Kim
2014-05-29  4:11           ` Minchan Kim
2014-05-29  2:47       ` Rusty Russell
2014-05-29  2:47         ` Rusty Russell
2014-05-29  4:10     ` virtio_ring stack usage Rusty Russell
2014-05-28  9:27   ` [RFC 2/2] x86_64: expand kernel stack to 16K Borislav Petkov
2014-05-29 13:23     ` One Thousand Gnomes
2014-05-29 13:23       ` One Thousand Gnomes
2014-05-28 14:14   ` Steven Rostedt
2014-05-28 14:14     ` Steven Rostedt
2014-05-28 14:23     ` H. Peter Anvin
2014-05-28 14:23       ` H. Peter Anvin
2014-05-28 22:11       ` Dave Chinner
2014-05-28 22:11         ` Dave Chinner
2014-05-28 22:42         ` H. Peter Anvin
2014-05-28 22:42           ` H. Peter Anvin
2014-05-28 23:17           ` Dave Chinner
2014-05-28 23:17             ` Dave Chinner
2014-05-28 23:21             ` H. Peter Anvin
2014-05-28 23:21               ` H. Peter Anvin
2014-05-28 15:43   ` Richard Weinberger
2014-05-28 15:43     ` Richard Weinberger
2014-05-28 16:08     ` Steven Rostedt
2014-05-28 16:08       ` Steven Rostedt
2014-05-28 16:11       ` Richard Weinberger
2014-05-28 16:11         ` Richard Weinberger
2014-05-28 16:13       ` Linus Torvalds
2014-05-28 16:13         ` Linus Torvalds
2014-05-28 16:09   ` Linus Torvalds
2014-05-28 16:09     ` Linus Torvalds
2014-05-28 22:31     ` Dave Chinner
2014-05-28 22:31       ` Dave Chinner
2014-05-28 22:41       ` Linus Torvalds
2014-05-28 22:41         ` Linus Torvalds
2014-05-29  1:30         ` Dave Chinner
2014-05-29  1:30           ` Dave Chinner
2014-05-29  1:58           ` Dave Chinner
2014-05-29  1:58             ` Dave Chinner
2014-05-29  2:51             ` Linus Torvalds
2014-05-29  2:51               ` Linus Torvalds
2014-05-29 23:36             ` Minchan Kim
2014-05-29 23:36               ` Minchan Kim
2014-05-30  0:05               ` Linus Torvalds
2014-05-30  0:20                 ` Minchan Kim
2014-05-30  0:20                   ` Minchan Kim
2014-05-30  0:31                   ` Linus Torvalds
2014-05-30  0:31                     ` Linus Torvalds
2014-05-30  0:50                     ` Minchan Kim
2014-05-30  0:50                       ` Minchan Kim
2014-05-30  1:24                       ` Linus Torvalds
2014-05-30  1:24                         ` Linus Torvalds
2014-05-30  1:58                         ` Dave Chinner
2014-05-30  1:58                           ` Dave Chinner
2014-05-30  2:13                           ` Linus Torvalds
2014-05-30  2:13                             ` Linus Torvalds
2014-05-30  6:21                         ` Minchan Kim [this message]
2014-05-30  6:21                           ` Minchan Kim
2014-05-30  1:30                 ` Linus Torvalds
2014-05-30  1:30                   ` Linus Torvalds
2014-05-30  0:15               ` Dave Chinner
2014-05-30  0:15                 ` Dave Chinner
2014-05-30  2:12                 ` Minchan Kim
2014-05-30  2:12                   ` Minchan Kim
2014-05-30  4:37                   ` Linus Torvalds
2014-05-30  4:37                     ` Linus Torvalds
2014-05-31  1:45                     ` Linus Torvalds
2014-05-31  1:45                       ` Linus Torvalds
2014-05-30  6:12                   ` Minchan Kim
2014-05-30  6:12                     ` Minchan Kim
2014-06-03 13:28                   ` Rasmus Villemoes
2014-06-03 13:28                     ` Rasmus Villemoes
2014-06-03 19:04                     ` Linus Torvalds
2014-06-03 19:04                       ` Linus Torvalds
2014-06-10 12:29                       ` [PATCH 0/2] Per-task wait_queue_t Rasmus Villemoes
2014-06-10 12:29                         ` [PATCH 1/2] wait: Introduce per-task wait_queue_t Rasmus Villemoes
2014-06-11 15:16                           ` Oleg Nesterov
2014-06-10 12:29                         ` [PATCH 2/2] wait: Use the per-task wait_queue_t in ___wait_event macro Rasmus Villemoes
2014-06-10 15:50                         ` [PATCH 0/2] Per-task wait_queue_t Peter Zijlstra
2014-06-12 21:46                           ` Rasmus Villemoes
2014-05-29  2:42           ` [RFC 2/2] x86_64: expand kernel stack to 16K Linus Torvalds
2014-05-29  2:42             ` Linus Torvalds
2014-05-29  5:14             ` H. Peter Anvin
2014-05-29  5:14               ` H. Peter Anvin
2014-05-29  6:01             ` Rusty Russell
2014-05-29  6:01               ` Rusty Russell
2014-05-29  7:26               ` virtio ring cleanups, which save stack on older gcc Rusty Russell
2014-05-29  7:26                 ` Rusty Russell
2014-05-29  7:26                 ` [PATCH 1/4] Hack: measure stack taken by vring from virtio_blk Rusty Russell
2014-05-29  7:26                   ` Rusty Russell
2014-05-29 15:39                   ` Linus Torvalds
2014-05-29 15:39                     ` Linus Torvalds
2014-05-29  7:26                 ` [PATCH 2/4] virtio_net: pass well-formed sg to virtqueue_add_inbuf() Rusty Russell
2014-05-29  7:26                   ` Rusty Russell
2014-05-29 10:07                   ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2014-05-29 10:07                     ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2014-05-29  7:26                 ` [PATCH 3/4] virtio_ring: assume sgs are always well-formed Rusty Russell
2014-05-29  7:26                   ` Rusty Russell
2014-05-29 11:18                   ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2014-05-29 11:18                     ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2014-05-29  7:26                 ` [PATCH 4/4] virtio_ring: unify direct/indirect code paths Rusty Russell
2014-05-29  7:26                   ` Rusty Russell
2014-05-29  7:52                   ` Peter Zijlstra
2014-05-29 11:05                     ` Rusty Russell
2014-05-29 11:05                       ` Rusty Russell
2014-05-29 11:33                       ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2014-05-29 11:33                         ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2014-05-29 11:29                   ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2014-05-29 11:29                     ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2014-05-30  2:37                     ` Rusty Russell
2014-05-30  2:37                       ` Rusty Russell
2014-05-30  6:21                       ` Rusty Russell
2014-05-29  7:41                 ` virtio ring cleanups, which save stack on older gcc Minchan Kim
2014-05-29  7:41                   ` Minchan Kim
2014-05-29 10:39                   ` Dave Chinner
2014-05-29 10:39                     ` Dave Chinner
2014-05-29 11:08                   ` Rusty Russell
2014-05-29 11:08                     ` Rusty Russell
2014-05-29 23:45                     ` Minchan Kim
2014-05-29 23:45                       ` Minchan Kim
2014-05-30  1:06                       ` Minchan Kim
2014-05-30  1:06                         ` Minchan Kim
2014-05-30  6:56                       ` Rusty Russell
2014-05-30  6:56                         ` Rusty Russell
2014-05-29  7:26             ` [RFC 2/2] x86_64: expand kernel stack to 16K Dave Chinner
2014-05-29  7:26               ` Dave Chinner
2014-05-29 15:24               ` Linus Torvalds
2014-05-29 15:24                 ` Linus Torvalds
2014-05-29 23:40                 ` Minchan Kim
2014-05-29 23:40                   ` Minchan Kim
2014-05-29 23:53                 ` Dave Chinner
2014-05-29 23:53                   ` Dave Chinner
2014-05-30  0:06                   ` Dave Jones
2014-05-30  0:06                     ` Dave Jones
2014-05-30  0:21                     ` Dave Chinner
2014-05-30  0:21                       ` Dave Chinner
2014-05-30  0:29                       ` Dave Jones
2014-05-30  0:29                         ` Dave Jones
2014-05-30  0:32                       ` Minchan Kim
2014-05-30  0:32                         ` Minchan Kim
2014-05-30  1:34                         ` Dave Chinner
2014-05-30  1:34                           ` Dave Chinner
2014-05-30 15:25                           ` H. Peter Anvin
2014-05-30 15:25                             ` H. Peter Anvin
2014-05-30 15:41                             ` Linus Torvalds
2014-05-30 15:41                               ` Linus Torvalds
2014-05-30 15:52                               ` H. Peter Anvin
2014-05-30 15:52                                 ` H. Peter Anvin
2014-05-30 16:06                                 ` Linus Torvalds
2014-05-30 16:06                                   ` Linus Torvalds
2014-05-30 17:24                                   ` Dave Hansen
2014-05-30 17:24                                     ` Dave Hansen
2014-05-30 18:12                                     ` H. Peter Anvin
2014-05-30 18:12                                       ` H. Peter Anvin
2014-10-21  2:00                               ` Dave Jones
2014-10-21  4:59                                 ` Andy Lutomirski
2014-05-30  9:48                 ` Richard Weinberger
2014-05-30  9:48                   ` Richard Weinberger
2014-05-30 15:36                   ` Linus Torvalds
2014-05-30 15:36                     ` Linus Torvalds
2014-05-31  2:06             ` Jens Axboe
2014-05-31  2:06               ` Jens Axboe
2014-06-02 22:59               ` Dave Chinner
2014-06-02 22:59                 ` Dave Chinner
2014-06-03 13:02               ` Konstantin Khlebnikov
2014-06-03 13:02                 ` Konstantin Khlebnikov
2014-05-29  3:46     ` Minchan Kim
2014-05-29  3:46       ` Minchan Kim
2014-05-29  4:13       ` Linus Torvalds
2014-05-29  4:13         ` Linus Torvalds
2014-05-29  5:10         ` Minchan Kim
2014-05-29  5:10           ` Minchan Kim
2014-05-30 21:23     ` Andi Kleen
2014-05-30 21:23       ` Andi Kleen
2014-05-28 16:18 ` [PATCH 1/2] ftrace: print stack usage right before Oops Steven Rostedt
2014-05-28 16:18   ` Steven Rostedt
2014-05-29  3:52   ` Minchan Kim
2014-05-29  3:52     ` Minchan Kim
2014-05-29  3:01 ` Steven Rostedt
2014-05-29  3:01   ` Steven Rostedt
2014-05-29  3:49   ` Minchan Kim
2014-05-29  3:49     ` Minchan Kim

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