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From: Ingo Molnar <mingo@kernel.org>
To: Kees Cook <keescook@chromium.org>
Cc: "Rafael J. Wysocki" <rafael@kernel.org>,
	Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>,
	Ard Biesheuvel <ard.biesheuvel@linaro.org>,
	Matt Redfearn <matt.redfearn@imgtec.com>,
	Yves-Alexis Perez <corsac@debian.org>,
	Emrah Demir <ed@abdsec.com>, Jonathan Corbet <corbet@lwn.net>,
	"x86@kernel.org" <x86@kernel.org>,
	"Rafael J. Wysocki" <rjw@rjwysocki.net>,
	Len Brown <len.brown@intel.com>, Pavel Machek <pavel@ucw.cz>,
	Borislav Petkov <bp@suse.de>, Andy Lutomirski <luto@kernel.org>,
	"open list:DOCUMENTATION" <linux-doc@vger.kernel.org>,
	"linux-pm@vger.kernel.org" <linux-pm@vger.kernel.org>,
	Linux Kernel Mailing List <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	"kernel-hardening@lists.openwall.com"
	<kernel-hardening@lists.openwall.com>
Subject: [kernel-hardening] Re: [PATCH] Prefer kASLR over Hibernation
Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2016 02:05:43 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20160407000543.GA26824@gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CAGXu5jJQBEivvcGnK4jB+5sbUpx9Sn+RieChXEgU-4ch9=1chA@mail.gmail.com>


* Kees Cook <keescook@chromium.org> wrote:

> >> I don't think this is a good idea, as it turns off emergency hibernation of 
> >> laptops - many desktop distros support it by default.
> >
> > Right, I forgot about this one.
> 
> When I last checked Ubuntu doesn't enable hibernation by default any more: 
> https://help.ubuntu.com/16.04/ubuntu-help/power-hibernate.html
> 
> And it seems like Fedora either doesn't either, or has a lot of people
> for whom it doesn't work:
> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1206936
> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1224151
> http://blog.kriptonium.com/2015/12/fedora-23-hibernate.html

Ok, that's a relatively recent development, I distinctly remember my laptop being 
hibernated in such a fashion fairly recently.

That makes it easier to hack around the kASLR incompatibility by making 
hibernation less useful. Personally I think that conceptually user space 
persistency (CRIU et al) is superior to kernel level hibernation - but
user-space save/restore is nowhere near as complete as kernel hibernation,
so it's still somewhat sad that it doesn't work ...

Thanks,

	Ingo

WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Ingo Molnar <mingo@kernel.org>
To: Kees Cook <keescook@chromium.org>
Cc: "Rafael J. Wysocki" <rafael@kernel.org>,
	Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>,
	Ard Biesheuvel <ard.biesheuvel@linaro.org>,
	Matt Redfearn <matt.redfearn@imgtec.com>,
	Yves-Alexis Perez <corsac@debian.org>,
	Emrah Demir <ed@abdsec.com>, Jonathan Corbet <corbet@lwn.net>,
	"x86@kernel.org" <x86@kernel.org>,
	"Rafael J. Wysocki" <rjw@rjwysocki.net>,
	Len Brown <len.brown@intel.com>, Pavel Machek <pavel@ucw.cz>,
	Borislav Petkov <bp@suse.de>, Andy Lutomirski <luto@kernel.org>,
	"open list:DOCUMENTATION" <linux-doc@vger.kernel.org>,
	"linux-pm@vger.kernel.org" <linux-pm@vger.kernel.org>,
	Linux Kernel Mailing List <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	"kernel-hardening@lists.openwall.com"
	<kernel-hardening@lists.openwall.com>
Subject: Re: [PATCH] Prefer kASLR over Hibernation
Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2016 02:05:43 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20160407000543.GA26824@gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CAGXu5jJQBEivvcGnK4jB+5sbUpx9Sn+RieChXEgU-4ch9=1chA@mail.gmail.com>


* Kees Cook <keescook@chromium.org> wrote:

> >> I don't think this is a good idea, as it turns off emergency hibernation of 
> >> laptops - many desktop distros support it by default.
> >
> > Right, I forgot about this one.
> 
> When I last checked Ubuntu doesn't enable hibernation by default any more: 
> https://help.ubuntu.com/16.04/ubuntu-help/power-hibernate.html
> 
> And it seems like Fedora either doesn't either, or has a lot of people
> for whom it doesn't work:
> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1206936
> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1224151
> http://blog.kriptonium.com/2015/12/fedora-23-hibernate.html

Ok, that's a relatively recent development, I distinctly remember my laptop being 
hibernated in such a fashion fairly recently.

That makes it easier to hack around the kASLR incompatibility by making 
hibernation less useful. Personally I think that conceptually user space 
persistency (CRIU et al) is superior to kernel level hibernation - but
user-space save/restore is nowhere near as complete as kernel hibernation,
so it's still somewhat sad that it doesn't work ...

Thanks,

	Ingo

  parent reply	other threads:[~2016-04-07  0:05 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 38+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2016-04-06 19:44 [kernel-hardening] [PATCH] Prefer kASLR over Hibernation Kees Cook
2016-04-06 19:44 ` Kees Cook
2016-04-06 20:17 ` [kernel-hardening] " Pavel Machek
2016-04-06 20:17   ` Pavel Machek
2016-04-06 20:56   ` [kernel-hardening] " Linus Torvalds
2016-04-06 20:56     ` Linus Torvalds
2016-04-06 21:25     ` [kernel-hardening] " Kees Cook
2016-04-06 21:25       ` Kees Cook
2016-04-06 21:48       ` [kernel-hardening] " Ingo Molnar
2016-04-06 21:48         ` Ingo Molnar
2016-04-06 21:52         ` [kernel-hardening] " Ingo Molnar
2016-04-06 21:52           ` Ingo Molnar
2016-04-06 22:32           ` [kernel-hardening] " Rafael J. Wysocki
2016-04-06 22:32             ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2016-04-07  0:49             ` [kernel-hardening] " Ingo Molnar
2016-04-07  0:49               ` Ingo Molnar
2016-04-06 21:49 ` [kernel-hardening] " Rafael J. Wysocki
2016-04-06 21:49   ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2016-04-06 21:56   ` [kernel-hardening] " Ingo Molnar
2016-04-06 21:56     ` Ingo Molnar
2016-04-06 22:04     ` [kernel-hardening] " Rafael J. Wysocki
2016-04-06 22:04       ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2016-04-06 22:16       ` [kernel-hardening] " Kees Cook
2016-04-06 22:16         ` Kees Cook
2016-04-06 22:41         ` [kernel-hardening] " Paul Bolle
2016-04-06 22:41           ` Paul Bolle
2016-04-07  0:05         ` Ingo Molnar [this message]
2016-04-07  0:05           ` Ingo Molnar
2016-04-11  8:00 ` [kernel-hardening] " James Morse
2016-04-11  8:00   ` James Morse
2016-04-11 18:03   ` [kernel-hardening] " Kees Cook
2016-04-11 18:03     ` Kees Cook
2016-04-11 18:21     ` [kernel-hardening] " Geert Uytterhoeven
2016-04-11 18:21       ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2016-04-11 18:47       ` [kernel-hardening] " Kees Cook
2016-04-11 18:47         ` Kees Cook
2016-04-12 17:51     ` [kernel-hardening] " James Morse
2016-04-12 17:51       ` James Morse

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