All of lore.kernel.org
 help / color / mirror / Atom feed
From: Cornelia Huck <cohuck@redhat.com>
To: Alexander Graf <agraf@suse.de>
Cc: "Radim Krčmář" <rkrcmar@redhat.com>,
	linux-mips@linux-mips.org, linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org,
	kvm@vger.kernel.org, kvm-ppc@vger.kernel.org,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, linux-s390@vger.kernel.org,
	"Marc Zyngier" <marc.zyngier@arm.com>,
	"Christian Borntraeger" <borntraeger@de.ibm.com>,
	"James Hogan" <james.hogan@imgtec.com>,
	"Christoffer Dall" <cdall@linaro.org>,
	"Paul Mackerras" <paulus@ozlabs.org>,
	"David Hildenbrand" <david@redhat.com>,
	"Paolo Bonzini" <pbonzini@redhat.com>
Subject: Re: [PATCH RFC 0/2] KVM: use RCU to allow dynamic kvm->vcpus array
Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2017 07:36:12 +0000	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20170817093612.024cc4bc.cohuck@redhat.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <b77b151f-e51d-3657-66e9-6fbc83887b18@suse.de>

On Thu, 17 Aug 2017 09:04:14 +0200
Alexander Graf <agraf@suse.de> wrote:

> On 16.08.17 21:40, Radim Krčmář  wrote:
> > The goal is to increase KVM_MAX_VCPUS without worrying about memory
> > impact of many small guests.
> > 
> > This is a second out of three major "dynamic" options:
> >   1) size vcpu array at VM creation time
> >   2) resize vcpu array when new VCPUs are created
> >   3) use a lockless list/tree for VCPUs
> > 
> > The disadvantage of (1) is its requirement on userspace changes and
> > limited flexibility because userspace must provide the maximal count on
> > start.  The main advantage is that kvm->vcpus will work like it does
> > now.  It has been posted as "[PATCH 0/4] KVM: add KVM_CREATE_VM2 to
> > allow dynamic kvm->vcpus array",
> > http://www.mail-archive.com/linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org/msg1377285.html
> > 
> > The main problem of (2), this series, is that we cannot extend the array
> > in place and therefore require some kind of protection when moving it.
> > RCU seems best, but it makes the code slower and harder to deal with.
> > The main advantage is that we do not need userspace changes.  
> 
> Creating/Destroying vcpus is not something I consider a fast path, so 
> why should we optimize for it? The case that needs to be fast is execution.
> 
> What if we just sent a "vcpu move" request to all vcpus with the new 
> pointer after it moved? That way the vcpu thread itself would be 
> responsible for the migration to the new memory region. Only if all 
> vcpus successfully moved, keep rolling (and allow foreign get_vcpu again).
> 
> That way we should be basically lock-less and scale well. For additional 
> icing, feel free to increase the vcpu array x2 every time it grows to 
> not run into the slow path too often.

I'd prefer the rcu approach: This is a mechanism already understood
well, no need to come up with a new one that will likely have its own
share of problems.

WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Cornelia Huck <cohuck@redhat.com>
To: Alexander Graf <agraf@suse.de>
Cc: "Radim Krčmář" <rkrcmar@redhat.com>,
	linux-mips@linux-mips.org, linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org,
	kvm@vger.kernel.org, kvm-ppc@vger.kernel.org,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, linux-s390@vger.kernel.org,
	"Marc Zyngier" <marc.zyngier@arm.com>,
	"Christian Borntraeger" <borntraeger@de.ibm.com>,
	"James Hogan" <james.hogan@imgtec.com>,
	"Christoffer Dall" <cdall@linaro.org>,
	"Paul Mackerras" <paulus@ozlabs.org>,
	"David Hildenbrand" <david@redhat.com>,
	"Paolo Bonzini" <pbonzini@redhat.com>
Subject: Re: [PATCH RFC 0/2] KVM: use RCU to allow dynamic kvm->vcpus array
Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2017 09:36:12 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20170817093612.024cc4bc.cohuck@redhat.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <b77b151f-e51d-3657-66e9-6fbc83887b18@suse.de>

On Thu, 17 Aug 2017 09:04:14 +0200
Alexander Graf <agraf@suse.de> wrote:

> On 16.08.17 21:40, Radim Krčmář  wrote:
> > The goal is to increase KVM_MAX_VCPUS without worrying about memory
> > impact of many small guests.
> > 
> > This is a second out of three major "dynamic" options:
> >   1) size vcpu array at VM creation time
> >   2) resize vcpu array when new VCPUs are created
> >   3) use a lockless list/tree for VCPUs
> > 
> > The disadvantage of (1) is its requirement on userspace changes and
> > limited flexibility because userspace must provide the maximal count on
> > start.  The main advantage is that kvm->vcpus will work like it does
> > now.  It has been posted as "[PATCH 0/4] KVM: add KVM_CREATE_VM2 to
> > allow dynamic kvm->vcpus array",
> > http://www.mail-archive.com/linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org/msg1377285.html
> > 
> > The main problem of (2), this series, is that we cannot extend the array
> > in place and therefore require some kind of protection when moving it.
> > RCU seems best, but it makes the code slower and harder to deal with.
> > The main advantage is that we do not need userspace changes.  
> 
> Creating/Destroying vcpus is not something I consider a fast path, so 
> why should we optimize for it? The case that needs to be fast is execution.
> 
> What if we just sent a "vcpu move" request to all vcpus with the new 
> pointer after it moved? That way the vcpu thread itself would be 
> responsible for the migration to the new memory region. Only if all 
> vcpus successfully moved, keep rolling (and allow foreign get_vcpu again).
> 
> That way we should be basically lock-less and scale well. For additional 
> icing, feel free to increase the vcpu array x2 every time it grows to 
> not run into the slow path too often.

I'd prefer the rcu approach: This is a mechanism already understood
well, no need to come up with a new one that will likely have its own
share of problems.

WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: cohuck@redhat.com (Cornelia Huck)
To: linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org
Subject: [PATCH RFC 0/2] KVM: use RCU to allow dynamic kvm->vcpus array
Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2017 09:36:12 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20170817093612.024cc4bc.cohuck@redhat.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <b77b151f-e51d-3657-66e9-6fbc83887b18@suse.de>

On Thu, 17 Aug 2017 09:04:14 +0200
Alexander Graf <agraf@suse.de> wrote:

> On 16.08.17 21:40, Radim Kr?m??  wrote:
> > The goal is to increase KVM_MAX_VCPUS without worrying about memory
> > impact of many small guests.
> > 
> > This is a second out of three major "dynamic" options:
> >   1) size vcpu array at VM creation time
> >   2) resize vcpu array when new VCPUs are created
> >   3) use a lockless list/tree for VCPUs
> > 
> > The disadvantage of (1) is its requirement on userspace changes and
> > limited flexibility because userspace must provide the maximal count on
> > start.  The main advantage is that kvm->vcpus will work like it does
> > now.  It has been posted as "[PATCH 0/4] KVM: add KVM_CREATE_VM2 to
> > allow dynamic kvm->vcpus array",
> > http://www.mail-archive.com/linux-kernel at vger.kernel.org/msg1377285.html
> > 
> > The main problem of (2), this series, is that we cannot extend the array
> > in place and therefore require some kind of protection when moving it.
> > RCU seems best, but it makes the code slower and harder to deal with.
> > The main advantage is that we do not need userspace changes.  
> 
> Creating/Destroying vcpus is not something I consider a fast path, so 
> why should we optimize for it? The case that needs to be fast is execution.
> 
> What if we just sent a "vcpu move" request to all vcpus with the new 
> pointer after it moved? That way the vcpu thread itself would be 
> responsible for the migration to the new memory region. Only if all 
> vcpus successfully moved, keep rolling (and allow foreign get_vcpu again).
> 
> That way we should be basically lock-less and scale well. For additional 
> icing, feel free to increase the vcpu array x2 every time it grows to 
> not run into the slow path too often.

I'd prefer the rcu approach: This is a mechanism already understood
well, no need to come up with a new one that will likely have its own
share of problems.

  reply	other threads:[~2017-08-17  7:36 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 75+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2017-08-16 19:40 [PATCH RFC 0/2] KVM: use RCU to allow dynamic kvm->vcpus array Radim Krčmář
2017-08-16 19:40 ` Radim Krčmář
2017-08-16 19:40 ` Radim Krčmář
2017-08-16 19:40 ` [PATCH RFC 1/2] KVM: remove unused __KVM_HAVE_ARCH_VM_ALLOC Radim Krčmář
2017-08-16 19:40   ` Radim Krčmář
2017-08-16 19:40   ` Radim Krčmář
2017-08-21 13:48   ` Christian Borntraeger
2017-08-21 13:48     ` Christian Borntraeger
2017-08-21 13:48     ` Christian Borntraeger
2017-08-16 19:40 ` [PATCH RFC 2/2] KVM: RCU protected dynamic vcpus array Radim Krčmář
2017-08-16 19:40   ` Radim Krčmář
2017-08-16 19:40   ` Radim Krčmář
2017-08-17  8:07   ` Cornelia Huck
2017-08-17  8:07     ` Cornelia Huck
2017-08-17  8:07     ` Cornelia Huck
2017-08-17  8:07     ` Cornelia Huck
2017-08-17 11:14   ` David Hildenbrand
2017-08-17 11:14     ` David Hildenbrand
2017-08-17 11:14     ` David Hildenbrand
2017-08-17 16:50     ` Radim Krčmář
2017-08-17 16:50       ` Radim Krčmář
2017-08-17 16:50       ` Radim Krčmář
2017-08-17 16:54       ` Paolo Bonzini
2017-08-17 16:54         ` Paolo Bonzini
2017-08-17 16:54         ` Paolo Bonzini
2017-08-17  7:04 ` [PATCH RFC 0/2] KVM: use RCU to allow dynamic kvm->vcpus array Alexander Graf
2017-08-17  7:04   ` Alexander Graf
2017-08-17  7:04   ` Alexander Graf
2017-08-17  7:36   ` Cornelia Huck [this message]
2017-08-17  7:36     ` Cornelia Huck
2017-08-17  7:36     ` Cornelia Huck
2017-08-17  9:16     ` Paolo Bonzini
2017-08-17  9:16       ` Paolo Bonzini
2017-08-17  9:16       ` Paolo Bonzini
2017-08-17  9:16       ` Paolo Bonzini
2017-08-17  9:28       ` Cornelia Huck
2017-08-17  9:28         ` Cornelia Huck
2017-08-17  9:28         ` Cornelia Huck
2017-08-17  9:44         ` Paolo Bonzini
2017-08-17  9:44           ` Paolo Bonzini
2017-08-17  9:44           ` Paolo Bonzini
2017-08-17  9:55           ` David Hildenbrand
2017-08-17  9:55             ` David Hildenbrand
2017-08-17  9:55             ` David Hildenbrand
2017-08-17  9:55             ` David Hildenbrand
2017-08-17 10:18             ` Paolo Bonzini
2017-08-17 10:18               ` Paolo Bonzini
2017-08-17 10:18               ` Paolo Bonzini
2017-08-17 10:20               ` David Hildenbrand
2017-08-17 10:20                 ` David Hildenbrand
2017-08-17 10:20                 ` David Hildenbrand
2017-08-17 10:23                 ` Paolo Bonzini
2017-08-17 10:23                   ` Paolo Bonzini
2017-08-17 10:23                   ` Paolo Bonzini
2017-08-17 10:31                   ` David Hildenbrand
2017-08-17 10:31                     ` David Hildenbrand
2017-08-17 10:31                     ` David Hildenbrand
2017-08-17 14:54   ` Radim Krčmář
2017-08-17 14:54     ` Radim Krčmář
2017-08-17 14:54     ` Radim Krčmář
2017-08-17 19:17     ` Alexander Graf
2017-08-17 19:17       ` Alexander Graf
2017-08-17 19:17       ` Alexander Graf
2017-08-18 14:10       ` Radim Krčmář
2017-08-18 14:10         ` Radim Krčmář
2017-08-18 14:10         ` Radim Krčmář
2017-08-18 14:22         ` Marc Zyngier
2017-08-18 14:22           ` Marc Zyngier
2017-08-18 14:22           ` Marc Zyngier
2017-08-17  7:29 ` David Hildenbrand
2017-08-17  7:29   ` David Hildenbrand
2017-08-17  7:29   ` David Hildenbrand
2017-08-17  7:37   ` Cornelia Huck
2017-08-17  7:37     ` Cornelia Huck
2017-08-17  7:37     ` Cornelia Huck

Reply instructions:

You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:

* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
  and reply-to-all from there: mbox

  Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style

* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
  switches of git-send-email(1):

  git send-email \
    --in-reply-to=20170817093612.024cc4bc.cohuck@redhat.com \
    --to=cohuck@redhat.com \
    --cc=agraf@suse.de \
    --cc=borntraeger@de.ibm.com \
    --cc=cdall@linaro.org \
    --cc=david@redhat.com \
    --cc=james.hogan@imgtec.com \
    --cc=kvm-ppc@vger.kernel.org \
    --cc=kvm@vger.kernel.org \
    --cc=linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org \
    --cc=linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org \
    --cc=linux-mips@linux-mips.org \
    --cc=linux-s390@vger.kernel.org \
    --cc=marc.zyngier@arm.com \
    --cc=paulus@ozlabs.org \
    --cc=pbonzini@redhat.com \
    --cc=rkrcmar@redhat.com \
    /path/to/YOUR_REPLY

  https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html

* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
  via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line before the message body.
This is an external index of several public inboxes,
see mirroring instructions on how to clone and mirror
all data and code used by this external index.