From: "Radim Krčmář" <rkrcmar@redhat.com>
To: Alexander Graf <agraf@suse.de>
Cc: linux-mips@linux-mips.org, linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org,
kvm@vger.kernel.org, kvm-ppc@vger.kernel.org,
linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, linux-s390@vger.kernel.org,
Marc Zyngier <marc.zyngier@arm.com>,
Christian Borntraeger <borntraeger@de.ibm.com>,
James Hogan <james.hogan@imgtec.com>,
Christoffer Dall <cdall@linaro.org>,
Paul Mackerras <paulus@ozlabs.org>,
Cornelia Huck <cohuck@redhat.com>,
David Hildenbrand <david@redhat.com>,
Paolo Bonzini <pbonzini@redhat.com>
Subject: Re: [PATCH RFC 0/2] KVM: use RCU to allow dynamic kvm->vcpus array
Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2017 14:54:12 +0000 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <20170817145411.GE2566@flask> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <b77b151f-e51d-3657-66e9-6fbc83887b18@suse.de>
2017-08-17 09:04+0200, Alexander Graf:
> On 16.08.17 21:40, Radim Krčmář wrote:
> > The goal is to increase KVM_MAX_VCPUS without worrying about memory
> > impact of many small guests.
> >
> > This is a second out of three major "dynamic" options:
> > 1) size vcpu array at VM creation time
> > 2) resize vcpu array when new VCPUs are created
> > 3) use a lockless list/tree for VCPUs
> >
> > The disadvantage of (1) is its requirement on userspace changes and
> > limited flexibility because userspace must provide the maximal count on
> > start. The main advantage is that kvm->vcpus will work like it does
> > now. It has been posted as "[PATCH 0/4] KVM: add KVM_CREATE_VM2 to
> > allow dynamic kvm->vcpus array",
> > http://www.mail-archive.com/linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org/msg1377285.html
> >
> > The main problem of (2), this series, is that we cannot extend the array
> > in place and therefore require some kind of protection when moving it.
> > RCU seems best, but it makes the code slower and harder to deal with.
> > The main advantage is that we do not need userspace changes.
>
> Creating/Destroying vcpus is not something I consider a fast path, so why
> should we optimize for it? The case that needs to be fast is execution.
Right, the creation is not important. I was concerned about the use of
lock() and unlock() needed for every access -- both in performance and
code, because the common case where hotplug doesn't happen and all VCPUs
are created upfront doesn't even need any runtime protection.
> What if we just sent a "vcpu move" request to all vcpus with the new pointer
> after it moved? That way the vcpu thread itself would be responsible for the
> migration to the new memory region. Only if all vcpus successfully moved,
> keep rolling (and allow foreign get_vcpu again).
I'm not sure if I understood this. You propose to cache kvm->vcpus in
vcpu->vcpus and do an extensions of this,
int vcpu_create(...) {
if (resize_needed(kvm->vcpus)) {
old_vcpus = kvm->vcpus
kvm->vcpus = make_bigger(kvm->vcpus)
kvm_make_all_cpus_request(kvm, KVM_REQ_UPDATE_VCPUS)
free(old_vcpus)
}
vcpu->vcpus = kvm->vcpus
}
with added extra locking, (S)RCU, on accesses that do not come from
VCPUs (irqfd and VM ioctl)?
> That way we should be basically lock-less and scale well. For additional
> icing, feel free to increase the vcpu array x2 every time it grows to not
> run into the slow path too often.
Yeah, I skipped the growing as it was not necessary for the
illustration.
WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: "Radim Krčmář" <rkrcmar@redhat.com>
To: Alexander Graf <agraf@suse.de>
Cc: linux-mips@linux-mips.org, linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org,
kvm@vger.kernel.org, kvm-ppc@vger.kernel.org,
linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, linux-s390@vger.kernel.org,
Marc Zyngier <marc.zyngier@arm.com>,
Christian Borntraeger <borntraeger@de.ibm.com>,
James Hogan <james.hogan@imgtec.com>,
Christoffer Dall <cdall@linaro.org>,
Paul Mackerras <paulus@ozlabs.org>,
Cornelia Huck <cohuck@redhat.com>,
David Hildenbrand <david@redhat.com>,
Paolo Bonzini <pbonzini@redhat.com>
Subject: Re: [PATCH RFC 0/2] KVM: use RCU to allow dynamic kvm->vcpus array
Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2017 16:54:12 +0200 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <20170817145411.GE2566@flask> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <b77b151f-e51d-3657-66e9-6fbc83887b18@suse.de>
2017-08-17 09:04+0200, Alexander Graf:
> On 16.08.17 21:40, Radim Krčmář wrote:
> > The goal is to increase KVM_MAX_VCPUS without worrying about memory
> > impact of many small guests.
> >
> > This is a second out of three major "dynamic" options:
> > 1) size vcpu array at VM creation time
> > 2) resize vcpu array when new VCPUs are created
> > 3) use a lockless list/tree for VCPUs
> >
> > The disadvantage of (1) is its requirement on userspace changes and
> > limited flexibility because userspace must provide the maximal count on
> > start. The main advantage is that kvm->vcpus will work like it does
> > now. It has been posted as "[PATCH 0/4] KVM: add KVM_CREATE_VM2 to
> > allow dynamic kvm->vcpus array",
> > http://www.mail-archive.com/linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org/msg1377285.html
> >
> > The main problem of (2), this series, is that we cannot extend the array
> > in place and therefore require some kind of protection when moving it.
> > RCU seems best, but it makes the code slower and harder to deal with.
> > The main advantage is that we do not need userspace changes.
>
> Creating/Destroying vcpus is not something I consider a fast path, so why
> should we optimize for it? The case that needs to be fast is execution.
Right, the creation is not important. I was concerned about the use of
lock() and unlock() needed for every access -- both in performance and
code, because the common case where hotplug doesn't happen and all VCPUs
are created upfront doesn't even need any runtime protection.
> What if we just sent a "vcpu move" request to all vcpus with the new pointer
> after it moved? That way the vcpu thread itself would be responsible for the
> migration to the new memory region. Only if all vcpus successfully moved,
> keep rolling (and allow foreign get_vcpu again).
I'm not sure if I understood this. You propose to cache kvm->vcpus in
vcpu->vcpus and do an extensions of this,
int vcpu_create(...) {
if (resize_needed(kvm->vcpus)) {
old_vcpus = kvm->vcpus
kvm->vcpus = make_bigger(kvm->vcpus)
kvm_make_all_cpus_request(kvm, KVM_REQ_UPDATE_VCPUS)
free(old_vcpus)
}
vcpu->vcpus = kvm->vcpus
}
with added extra locking, (S)RCU, on accesses that do not come from
VCPUs (irqfd and VM ioctl)?
> That way we should be basically lock-less and scale well. For additional
> icing, feel free to increase the vcpu array x2 every time it grows to not
> run into the slow path too often.
Yeah, I skipped the growing as it was not necessary for the
illustration.
WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: rkrcmar@redhat.com (Radim Krčmář)
To: linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org
Subject: [PATCH RFC 0/2] KVM: use RCU to allow dynamic kvm->vcpus array
Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2017 16:54:12 +0200 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <20170817145411.GE2566@flask> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <b77b151f-e51d-3657-66e9-6fbc83887b18@suse.de>
2017-08-17 09:04+0200, Alexander Graf:
> On 16.08.17 21:40, Radim Kr?m?? wrote:
> > The goal is to increase KVM_MAX_VCPUS without worrying about memory
> > impact of many small guests.
> >
> > This is a second out of three major "dynamic" options:
> > 1) size vcpu array at VM creation time
> > 2) resize vcpu array when new VCPUs are created
> > 3) use a lockless list/tree for VCPUs
> >
> > The disadvantage of (1) is its requirement on userspace changes and
> > limited flexibility because userspace must provide the maximal count on
> > start. The main advantage is that kvm->vcpus will work like it does
> > now. It has been posted as "[PATCH 0/4] KVM: add KVM_CREATE_VM2 to
> > allow dynamic kvm->vcpus array",
> > http://www.mail-archive.com/linux-kernel at vger.kernel.org/msg1377285.html
> >
> > The main problem of (2), this series, is that we cannot extend the array
> > in place and therefore require some kind of protection when moving it.
> > RCU seems best, but it makes the code slower and harder to deal with.
> > The main advantage is that we do not need userspace changes.
>
> Creating/Destroying vcpus is not something I consider a fast path, so why
> should we optimize for it? The case that needs to be fast is execution.
Right, the creation is not important. I was concerned about the use of
lock() and unlock() needed for every access -- both in performance and
code, because the common case where hotplug doesn't happen and all VCPUs
are created upfront doesn't even need any runtime protection.
> What if we just sent a "vcpu move" request to all vcpus with the new pointer
> after it moved? That way the vcpu thread itself would be responsible for the
> migration to the new memory region. Only if all vcpus successfully moved,
> keep rolling (and allow foreign get_vcpu again).
I'm not sure if I understood this. You propose to cache kvm->vcpus in
vcpu->vcpus and do an extensions of this,
int vcpu_create(...) {
if (resize_needed(kvm->vcpus)) {
old_vcpus = kvm->vcpus
kvm->vcpus = make_bigger(kvm->vcpus)
kvm_make_all_cpus_request(kvm, KVM_REQ_UPDATE_VCPUS)
free(old_vcpus)
}
vcpu->vcpus = kvm->vcpus
}
with added extra locking, (S)RCU, on accesses that do not come from
VCPUs (irqfd and VM ioctl)?
> That way we should be basically lock-less and scale well. For additional
> icing, feel free to increase the vcpu array x2 every time it grows to not
> run into the slow path too often.
Yeah, I skipped the growing as it was not necessary for the
illustration.
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2017-08-17 14:54 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 75+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2017-08-16 19:40 [PATCH RFC 0/2] KVM: use RCU to allow dynamic kvm->vcpus array Radim Krčmář
2017-08-16 19:40 ` Radim Krčmář
2017-08-16 19:40 ` Radim Krčmář
2017-08-16 19:40 ` [PATCH RFC 1/2] KVM: remove unused __KVM_HAVE_ARCH_VM_ALLOC Radim Krčmář
2017-08-16 19:40 ` Radim Krčmář
2017-08-16 19:40 ` Radim Krčmář
2017-08-21 13:48 ` Christian Borntraeger
2017-08-21 13:48 ` Christian Borntraeger
2017-08-21 13:48 ` Christian Borntraeger
2017-08-16 19:40 ` [PATCH RFC 2/2] KVM: RCU protected dynamic vcpus array Radim Krčmář
2017-08-16 19:40 ` Radim Krčmář
2017-08-16 19:40 ` Radim Krčmář
2017-08-17 8:07 ` Cornelia Huck
2017-08-17 8:07 ` Cornelia Huck
2017-08-17 8:07 ` Cornelia Huck
2017-08-17 8:07 ` Cornelia Huck
2017-08-17 11:14 ` David Hildenbrand
2017-08-17 11:14 ` David Hildenbrand
2017-08-17 11:14 ` David Hildenbrand
2017-08-17 16:50 ` Radim Krčmář
2017-08-17 16:50 ` Radim Krčmář
2017-08-17 16:50 ` Radim Krčmář
2017-08-17 16:54 ` Paolo Bonzini
2017-08-17 16:54 ` Paolo Bonzini
2017-08-17 16:54 ` Paolo Bonzini
2017-08-17 7:04 ` [PATCH RFC 0/2] KVM: use RCU to allow dynamic kvm->vcpus array Alexander Graf
2017-08-17 7:04 ` Alexander Graf
2017-08-17 7:04 ` Alexander Graf
2017-08-17 7:36 ` Cornelia Huck
2017-08-17 7:36 ` Cornelia Huck
2017-08-17 7:36 ` Cornelia Huck
2017-08-17 9:16 ` Paolo Bonzini
2017-08-17 9:16 ` Paolo Bonzini
2017-08-17 9:16 ` Paolo Bonzini
2017-08-17 9:16 ` Paolo Bonzini
2017-08-17 9:28 ` Cornelia Huck
2017-08-17 9:28 ` Cornelia Huck
2017-08-17 9:28 ` Cornelia Huck
2017-08-17 9:44 ` Paolo Bonzini
2017-08-17 9:44 ` Paolo Bonzini
2017-08-17 9:44 ` Paolo Bonzini
2017-08-17 9:55 ` David Hildenbrand
2017-08-17 9:55 ` David Hildenbrand
2017-08-17 9:55 ` David Hildenbrand
2017-08-17 9:55 ` David Hildenbrand
2017-08-17 10:18 ` Paolo Bonzini
2017-08-17 10:18 ` Paolo Bonzini
2017-08-17 10:18 ` Paolo Bonzini
2017-08-17 10:20 ` David Hildenbrand
2017-08-17 10:20 ` David Hildenbrand
2017-08-17 10:20 ` David Hildenbrand
2017-08-17 10:23 ` Paolo Bonzini
2017-08-17 10:23 ` Paolo Bonzini
2017-08-17 10:23 ` Paolo Bonzini
2017-08-17 10:31 ` David Hildenbrand
2017-08-17 10:31 ` David Hildenbrand
2017-08-17 10:31 ` David Hildenbrand
2017-08-17 14:54 ` Radim Krčmář [this message]
2017-08-17 14:54 ` Radim Krčmář
2017-08-17 14:54 ` Radim Krčmář
2017-08-17 19:17 ` Alexander Graf
2017-08-17 19:17 ` Alexander Graf
2017-08-17 19:17 ` Alexander Graf
2017-08-18 14:10 ` Radim Krčmář
2017-08-18 14:10 ` Radim Krčmář
2017-08-18 14:10 ` Radim Krčmář
2017-08-18 14:22 ` Marc Zyngier
2017-08-18 14:22 ` Marc Zyngier
2017-08-18 14:22 ` Marc Zyngier
2017-08-17 7:29 ` David Hildenbrand
2017-08-17 7:29 ` David Hildenbrand
2017-08-17 7:29 ` David Hildenbrand
2017-08-17 7:37 ` Cornelia Huck
2017-08-17 7:37 ` Cornelia Huck
2017-08-17 7:37 ` Cornelia Huck
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