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From: hch@infradead.org (Christoph Hellwig)
To: linux-security-module@vger.kernel.org
Subject: [PATCH 3/3] ima: use fs method to read integrity data (updated patch description)
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2017 08:37:55 -0700	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20170917153755.GA21193@infradead.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CA+55aFyrZ=YsfNc1vp=vArNgotLXGPr4F6uZiz22Uj2XHGUvaw@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Sep 17, 2017 at 08:28:40AM -0700, Linus Torvalds wrote:
> The issue is that somebody else can come in - using direct IO - at the
> same time as the first person is collecting measurements, and thus
> race with the collector.
>
> So now the measurements are not trustworthy any more.

Yes.  And it's always been that way with IMA.

> .. and *my* point is that it's the wrong lock for actually checking
> integrity (it doesn't actually guarantee exclusion, even though in
> practice it's almost always the case), and so we're adding a nasty
> callback that in 99% of all cases is the same as the normal read, and
> we *could* have just added it with a RWF flag instead.
> 
> Is there some reason why integrity has to use that particular lock
> that is so inconvenient for the filesystems it wants to check?

I'll have to defer that to Mimi - I just jumped into this whole mess
to help fixing the deadlocks we saw on XFS and NFS.

Unfortunately the whole security code is a giant mess that doesn't
document assumptions, threat models or gets any sort of verification
of those through automated testing.
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WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Christoph Hellwig <hch@infradead.org>
To: Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>
Cc: Christoph Hellwig <hch@infradead.org>,
	Mimi Zohar <zohar@linux.vnet.ibm.com>,
	LSM List <linux-security-module@vger.kernel.org>,
	Christoph Hellwig <hch@lst.de>,
	linux-ima-devel@lists.sourceforge.net,
	James Morris <jmorris@namei.org>,
	Linux Kernel Mailing List <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	Matthew Garrett <mjg59@srcf.ucam.org>, Jan Kara <jack@suse.com>,
	"Theodore Ts'o" <tytso@mit.edu>,
	Andreas Dilger <adilger.kernel@dilger.ca>,
	Jaegeuk Kim <jaegeuk@kernel.org>, Chao Yu <yuchao0@huawei.com>,
	Steven Whitehouse <swhiteho@redhat.com>,
	Bob Peterson <rpeterso@redhat.com>,
	David Woodhouse <dwmw2@infradead.org>,
	Dave Kleikamp <shaggy@kernel.org>,
	Ryusuke Konishi <konishi.ryusuke@lab.ntt.co.jp>,
	Mark Fasheh <mfasheh@versity.com>,
	Joel Becker <jlbec@evilplan.org>,
	Richard Weinberger <richard@nod.at>,
	"Darrick J. Wong" <darrick.wong@oracle.com>,
	Hugh Dickins <hughd@google.com>, Chris Mason <clm@fb.com>
Subject: Re: [PATCH 3/3] ima: use fs method to read integrity data (updated patch description)
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2017 08:37:55 -0700	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20170917153755.GA21193@infradead.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CA+55aFyrZ=YsfNc1vp=vArNgotLXGPr4F6uZiz22Uj2XHGUvaw@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Sep 17, 2017 at 08:28:40AM -0700, Linus Torvalds wrote:
> The issue is that somebody else can come in - using direct IO - at the
> same time as the first person is collecting measurements, and thus
> race with the collector.
>
> So now the measurements are not trustworthy any more.

Yes.  And it's always been that way with IMA.

> .. and *my* point is that it's the wrong lock for actually checking
> integrity (it doesn't actually guarantee exclusion, even though in
> practice it's almost always the case), and so we're adding a nasty
> callback that in 99% of all cases is the same as the normal read, and
> we *could* have just added it with a RWF flag instead.
> 
> Is there some reason why integrity has to use that particular lock
> that is so inconvenient for the filesystems it wants to check?

I'll have to defer that to Mimi - I just jumped into this whole mess
to help fixing the deadlocks we saw on XFS and NFS.

Unfortunately the whole security code is a giant mess that doesn't
document assumptions, threat models or gets any sort of verification
of those through automated testing.

  reply	other threads:[~2017-09-17 15:37 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 46+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2017-09-15  4:58 [PATCH 0/3] ima: only call integrity_kernel_read to calc file hash Mimi Zohar
2017-09-15  4:58 ` Mimi Zohar
2017-09-15  4:58 ` [PATCH 1/3] vfs: constify path argument to kernel_read_file_from_path Mimi Zohar
2017-09-15  4:58   ` Mimi Zohar
2017-09-15 18:37   ` Linus Torvalds
2017-09-15 18:37     ` Linus Torvalds
2017-09-15  4:58 ` [PATCH 2/3] integrity: replace call to integrity_read_file with kernel version Mimi Zohar
2017-09-15  4:58   ` Mimi Zohar
2017-09-15  4:58 ` [PATCH 3/3] ima: use fs method to read integrity data Mimi Zohar
2017-09-15  4:58   ` Mimi Zohar
     [not found]   ` <CA+55aFwVujvsdaq09O216u-uBbBbo5i_1d6aw3ksottR_uiJ6w@mail.gmail.com>
2017-09-15  9:04     ` Mimi Zohar
2017-09-15  9:04       ` Mimi Zohar
2017-09-15  9:09       ` Mimi Zohar
2017-09-15  9:09         ` Mimi Zohar
2017-09-15 18:05       ` Linus Torvalds
2017-09-15 18:05         ` Linus Torvalds
2017-09-15 14:49     ` Christoph Hellwig
2017-09-15 14:49       ` Christoph Hellwig
2017-09-15 15:21       ` Mimi Zohar
2017-09-15 15:21         ` Mimi Zohar
2017-09-15 20:25   ` [PATCH 3/3] ima: use fs method to read integrity data (updated patch description) Mimi Zohar
2017-09-15 20:25     ` Mimi Zohar
2017-09-16 18:20     ` Linus Torvalds
2017-09-16 18:20       ` Linus Torvalds
2017-09-17  5:47       ` Mimi Zohar
2017-09-17  5:47         ` Mimi Zohar
2017-09-17 15:17       ` Christoph Hellwig
2017-09-17 15:17         ` Christoph Hellwig
2017-09-17 15:28         ` Linus Torvalds
2017-09-17 15:28           ` Linus Torvalds
2017-09-17 15:37           ` Christoph Hellwig [this message]
2017-09-17 15:37             ` Christoph Hellwig
2017-09-17 16:15           ` Mimi Zohar
2017-09-17 16:15             ` Mimi Zohar
2017-09-17 16:34             ` Linus Torvalds
2017-09-17 16:34               ` Linus Torvalds
2017-09-17 16:38               ` Al Viro
2017-09-17 16:38                 ` Al Viro
2017-09-18  9:19                 ` Steven Whitehouse
2017-09-18  9:19                   ` Steven Whitehouse
2017-09-18 10:13                   ` Jan Kara
2017-09-18 10:13                     ` Jan Kara
2017-09-18 14:55                     ` Mimi Zohar
2017-09-18 14:55                       ` Mimi Zohar
2017-09-24 22:55                       ` Mimi Zohar
2017-09-24 22:55                         ` Mimi Zohar

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