Re: Balloon pressuring page cache

["Michael S. Tsirkin" <mst@redhat.com>]

On Mon, Feb 03, 2020 at 12:32:05PM -0800, Tyler Sanderson wrote:
> There were apparently good reasons for moving away from OOM notifier callback:
> https://lkml.org/lkml/2018/7/12/314
> https://lkml.org/lkml/2018/8/2/322
> 
> In particular the OOM notifier is worse than the shrinker because:
> 
>  1. It is last-resort, which means the system has already gone through heroics
>     to prevent OOM. Those heroic reclaim efforts are expensive and impact
>     application performance.
>  2. It lacks understanding of NUMA or other OOM constraints.
>  3. It has a higher potential for bugs due to the subtlety of the callback
>     context.
> 
> Given the above, I think the shrinker API certainly makes the most sense _if_
> the balloon size is static. In that case memory should be reclaimed from the
> balloon early and proportionally to balloon size, which the shrinker API
> achieves.

OK that sounds like VIRTIO_BALLOON_F_FREE_PAGE_HINT then.

> However, if the balloon is inflating and intentionally causing memory pressure
> then this results in the inefficiency pointed out earlier.

And that sounds like VIRTIO_BALLOON_F_DEFLATE_ON_OOM.

> If the balloon is inflating but not causing memory pressure then there is no
> problem with either API.
> 
> This suggests another route: rather than cause memory pressure to shrink the
> page cache, the balloon could issue the equivalent of "echo 3 > /proc/sys/vm/
> drop_caches".
> Of course ideally, we want to be more fine grained than "drop everything". We
> really want an API that says "drop everything that hasn't been accessed in the
> last 5 minutes".
> 
> This would eliminate the need for the balloon to cause memory pressure at all
> which avoids the inefficiency in question. Furthermore, this pairs nicely with
> the FREE_PAGE_HINT feature.

Well we still do have a regression. So we probably should revert
for now, and separately look for better solutions.



> 
> On Mon, Feb 3, 2020 at 9:04 AM Michael S. Tsirkin <mst@redhat.com> wrote:
> 
>     On Mon, Feb 03, 2020 at 05:34:20PM +0100, David Hildenbrand wrote:
>     > On 03.02.20 17:18, Alexander Duyck wrote:
>     > > On Mon, 2020-02-03 at 08:11 -0500, Michael S. Tsirkin wrote:
>     > >> On Thu, Jan 30, 2020 at 11:59:46AM -0800, Tyler Sanderson wrote:
>     > >>>
>     > >>> On Thu, Jan 30, 2020 at 7:31 AM Wang, Wei W <wei.w.wang@intel.com>
>     wrote:
>     > >>>
>     > >>>     On Thursday, January 30, 2020 11:03 PM, David Hildenbrand wrote:
>     > >>>     > On 29.01.20 20:11, Tyler Sanderson wrote:
>     > >>>     > >
>     > >>>     > >
>     > >>>     > > On Wed, Jan 29, 2020 at 2:31 AM David Hildenbrand <
>     david@redhat.com
>     > >>>     > > <mailto:david@redhat.com>> wrote:
>     > >>>     > >
>     > >>>     > >     On 29.01.20 01:22, Tyler Sanderson via Virtualization
>     wrote:
>     > >>>     > >     > A primary advantage of virtio balloon over other memory
>     reclaim
>     > >>>     > >     > mechanisms is that it can pressure the guest's page
>     cache into
>     > >>>     > >     shrinking.
>     > >>>     > >     >
>     > >>>     > >     > However, since the balloon driver changed to using the
>     shrinker
>     > >>>     API
>     > >>>     > >     >
>     > >>>     > >
>     > >>>     > <https://github.com/torvalds/linux/commit/
>     71994620bb25a8b109388fefa9
>     > >>>     > e99a28e355255a#diff-fd202acf694d9eba19c8c64da3e480c9> this
>     > >>>     > >     > use case has become a bit more tricky. I'm wondering
>     what the
>     > >>>     > intended
>     > >>>     > >     > device implementation is.
>     > >>>     > >     >
>     > >>>     > >     > When inflating the balloon against page cache (i.e. no
>     free
>     > >>>     memory
>     > >>>     > >     > remains) vmscan.c will both shrink page cache, but also
>     invoke
>     > >>>     the
>     > >>>     > >     > shrinkers -- including the balloon's shrinker. So the
>     balloon
>     > >>>     driver
>     > >>>     > >     > allocates memory which requires reclaim, vmscan gets
>     this memory
>     > >>>     > by
>     > >>>     > >     > shrinking the balloon, and then the driver adds the
>     memory back
>     > >>>     to
>     > >>>     > the
>     > >>>     > >     > balloon. Basically a busy no-op.
>     > >>>
>     > >>>     Per my understanding, the balloon allocation won’t invoke
>     shrinker as
>     > >>>     __GFP_DIRECT_RECLAIM isn't set, no?
>     > >>>
>     > >>> I could be wrong about the mechanism, but the device sees lots of
>     activity on
>     > >>> the deflate queue. The balloon is being shrunk. And this only starts
>     once all
>     > >>> free memory is depleted and we're inflating into page cache.
>     > >>
>     > >> So given this looks like a regression, maybe we should revert the
>     > >> patch in question 71994620bb25 ("virtio_balloon: replace oom notifier
>     with shrinker")
>     > >> Besides, with VIRTIO_BALLOON_F_FREE_PAGE_HINT
>     > >> shrinker also ignores VIRTIO_BALLOON_F_MUST_TELL_HOST which isn't nice
>     > >> at all.
>     > >>
>     > >> So it looks like all this rework introduced more issues than it
>     > >> addressed ...
>     > >>
>     > >> I also CC Alex Duyck for an opinion on this.
>     > >> Alex, what do you use to put pressure on page cache?
>     > >
>     > > I would say reverting probably makes sense. I'm not sure there is much
>     > > value to having a shrinker running deflation when you are actively
>     trying
>     > > to increase the balloon. It would make more sense to wait until you are
>     > > actually about to start hitting oom.
>     >
>     > I think the shrinker makes sense for free page hinting feature
>     > (everything on free_page_list).
>     >
>     > So instead of only reverting, I think we should split it up and always
>     > register the shrinker for VIRTIO_BALLOON_F_FREE_PAGE_HINT and the OOM
>     > notifier (as before) for VIRTIO_BALLOON_F_MUST_TELL_HOST.
> 
>     OK ... I guess that means we need to fix shrinker to take
>     VIRTIO_BALLOON_F_MUST_TELL_HOST into account correctly.
>     Hosts ignore it at the moment but it's a fragile thing
>     to do what it does and ignore used buffers.
> 
>     > (Of course, adapting what is being done in the shrinker and in the OOM
>     > notifier)
>     >
>     > --
>     > Thanks,
>     >
>     > David / dhildenb
> 
> 

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