Re: [LARTC] the "cisco vs. Linux" thread

Re: [LARTC] the "cisco vs. Linux" thread

[Glen Mabey]

On Thu, Jul 08, 2004 at 12:07:57PM -0400, Jos? Ildefonso Camargo Tolosa wrote:
> you can use an Athlon 
> 64 with DDR RAM and very good network hardware (that is very, very 
> important)

Regarding NICs, are there any recommendations out there for which
manufacturers to go with?  I don't need anything faster than 100baseT.

I would think that Intel and 3Com would be in the "reliable" category,
and RTL-based cards in the "forget it" category.

On the Intel note, I wonder what experience y'all have had with the two
different drivers for the EtherExpressPro/100 card.  That is, eepro100
versus e100.  I would think that noone would take the time to rewrite a
driver if there wasn't anything wrong with the original one.

Thank you--
Glen Mabey

-- 
******************************************************************
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Glen.Mabey@usu.edu
http://mabeys.homelinux.com/glen/
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Re: [LARTC] the "cisco vs. Linux" thread

[Nicholas Erkert]

Glen Mabey wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 08, 2004 at 12:07:57PM -0400, Jos? Ildefonso Camargo Tolosa wrote:
> 
>>you can use an Athlon 
>>64 with DDR RAM and very good network hardware (that is very, very 
>>important)
> 
> 
> Regarding NICs, are there any recommendations out there for which
> manufacturers to go with?  I don't need anything faster than 100baseT.
> 
> I would think that Intel and 3Com would be in the "reliable" category,
> and RTL-based cards in the "forget it" category.
> 
> On the Intel note, I wonder what experience y'all have had with the two
> different drivers for the EtherExpressPro/100 card.  That is, eepro100
> versus e100.  I would think that noone would take the time to rewrite a
> driver if there wasn't anything wrong with the original one.
> 
> Thank you--
> Glen Mabey
> 
I have had some good luck with Intel cards using either drivers. I 
haven't noticed much difference between them but I haen't done a lot of 
stress testing on them.

On a side note has anyone built a linux router with dual/quad port 
ethernet cards (ie Intel PRO/1000 MT Quad Port Server Adapter)?
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Re: [LARTC] the "cisco vs. Linux" thread

[Nicholas Erkert]

Glen Mabey wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 08, 2004 at 12:07:57PM -0400, Jos? Ildefonso Camargo Tolosa wrote:
> 
>>you can use an Athlon 
>>64 with DDR RAM and very good network hardware (that is very, very 
>>important)
> 
> 
> Regarding NICs, are there any recommendations out there for which
> manufacturers to go with?  I don't need anything faster than 100baseT.
> 
> I would think that Intel and 3Com would be in the "reliable" category,
> and RTL-based cards in the "forget it" category.
> 
> On the Intel note, I wonder what experience y'all have had with the two
> different drivers for the EtherExpressPro/100 card.  That is, eepro100
> versus e100.  I would think that noone would take the time to rewrite a
> driver if there wasn't anything wrong with the original one.
> 
> Thank you--
> Glen Mabey
> 
I have had some good luck with Intel cards using either drivers. I 
haven't noticed much difference between them but I haen't done a lot of 
stress testing on them.

On a side note has anyone built a linux router with dual/quad port 
ethernet cards (ie Intel PRO/1000 MT Quad Port Server Adapter)?


--Nick Erkert
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RE: [LARTC] the "cisco vs. Linux" thread

[Jeff Green]

 
FYI this topic has been covered on the Zebra and Quagga lists

 - hardware processors, memory, NICs, etc
 - software OS (Linux, *BSD), drivers, etc

I've been running a couple of Linux routers for about 2 years now, I'm
using
them as core routers so I bought a couple of rackmount "server" boxes
with
redundant PSUs and h/w RAID (1) for hotswap disks.

I'm using a couple of Adaptec Quartet66 NICs in each, that gives me
2 x 1GbE (on mobo) and 8 x 10/100 Mb ports per box.


				Regards,


-----Original Message-----
From: lartc-admin@mailman.ds9a.nl [mailto:lartc-admin@mailman.ds9a.nl]
On Behalf Of Nicholas Erkert
Sent: 08 July 2004 22:44
To: lartc@mailman.ds9a.nl
Subject: Re: [LARTC] the "cisco vs. Linux" thread

Glen Mabey wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 08, 2004 at 12:07:57PM -0400, Jos? Ildefonso Camargo
Tolosa wrote:
> 
>>you can use an Athlon
>>64 with DDR RAM and very good network hardware (that is very, very
>>important)
> 
> 
> Regarding NICs, are there any recommendations out there for which 
> manufacturers to go with?  I don't need anything faster than 100baseT.
> 
> I would think that Intel and 3Com would be in the "reliable" category,

> and RTL-based cards in the "forget it" category.
> 
> On the Intel note, I wonder what experience y'all have had with the 
> two different drivers for the EtherExpressPro/100 card.  That is, 
> eepro100 versus e100.  I would think that noone would take the time to

> rewrite a driver if there wasn't anything wrong with the original one.
> 
> Thank you--
> Glen Mabey
> 
I have had some good luck with Intel cards using either drivers. I
haven't noticed much difference between them but I haen't done a lot of
stress testing on them.

On a side note has anyone built a linux router with dual/quad port
ethernet cards (ie Intel PRO/1000 MT Quad Port Server Adapter)?


--Nick Erkert
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Re: [LARTC] the "cisco vs. Linux" thread

[Alfie Viechweg]

Regarding building your own router/switch. You might want to check out 
www.routerboard.com for a
really reasonably priced 4 port NIC.

              --Alfie Viechweg
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Re: [LARTC] the "cisco vs. Linux" thread

[Glen Mabey]

On Fri, Jul 09, 2004 at 10:35:22AM -0400, Alfie Viechweg wrote:
> Regarding building your own router/switch. You might want to check out 
> www.routerboard.com for a
> really reasonably priced 4 port NIC.

I had no idea this type of board existed! (forgive my excitement)

Alfie, have you used the Routerboard 230 or 240 products?  
Anyone else?

Could anyone else recommend other manufacturers of this type of
hardware: an embedded system board with 
* a couple of NICs
* PCMCIA
* runs linux

Thanks --
Glen

-- 
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Glen.Mabey@usu.edu
http://mabeys.homelinux.com/glen/
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Re: [LARTC] the "cisco vs. Linux" thread

[Glen Mabey]

On Sat, Jul 10, 2004 at 04:51:40PM -0600, glen wrote:
> Alfie, have you used the Routerboard 230 or 240 products?  

Whoops, I meant 220 or 230 ...

Glen

-- 
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Re: [LARTC] the "cisco vs. Linux" thread

[Dmitry Golubev]

Runs good on Linux and has many (perhaps too many) different extras. 
Performance is sufficient for most cases unless you are working with data 
rates of more than 30-40Mbit/s (well, IPsec with a kind of strong encryption 
goes only with some 3-5 megabits...). You may want to check out the site 
after a while - more HW products to come soon.

You might also want to check out the manufacturer's routing software based on 
Linux kernel with some proprietary extensions (like wireless driver that is 
undoubtedly better than the anything else for Atheros cards).

(don't look on my e-mail address :)

Feel free to ask me more on these products.

Dmitry

On Sunday 11 July 2004 02:25, Glen Mabey <glen@mabeys.dsl.aros.net> wrote:
> On Sat, Jul 10, 2004 at 04:51:40PM -0600, glen wrote:
> > Alfie, have you used the Routerboard 230 or 240 products?
>
> Whoops, I meant 220 or 230 ...
>
> Glen
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RE: [LARTC] the "cisco vs. Linux" thread

[S Mohan]

You could try the following:
1. http://www.axiomtech.com.tw
2. http://www.soekris.com
3. http://www.pcengines.com
4. http://www.nexedi.org
5. http://www.nagasaki.com.tw
6. http://www.iei.com.tw
7. http://www.advantech.com
8. http://www.lannerinc.com

An a lot more. Nagasaki is good and has a few good options. Cheapest of the
lot. Most of these are Taiwanese/Chinese companies with US offices.

Warm regards
Mohan  

> -----Original Message-----
> From: lartc-admin@mailman.ds9a.nl 
> [mailto:lartc-admin@mailman.ds9a.nl] On Behalf Of Glen Mabey
> Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2004 4:22 AM
> To: LARTC Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [LARTC] the "cisco vs. Linux" thread
> 
> On Fri, Jul 09, 2004 at 10:35:22AM -0400, Alfie Viechweg wrote:
> > Regarding building your own router/switch. You might want 
> to check out 
> > www.routerboard.com for a really reasonably priced 4 port NIC.
> 
> I had no idea this type of board existed! (forgive my excitement)
> 
> Alfie, have you used the Routerboard 230 or 240 products?  
> Anyone else?
> 
> Could anyone else recommend other manufacturers of this type of
> hardware: an embedded system board with
> * a couple of NICs
> * PCMCIA
> * runs linux
> 
> Thanks --
> Glen
> 
> --
> ******************************************************************
> Glen W. Mabey
> Glen.Mabey@usu.edu
> http://mabeys.homelinux.com/glen/
> ******************************************************************
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> http://mailman.ds9a.nl/mailman/listinfo/lartc HOWTO: http://lartc.org/
> 

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Re: [LARTC] the "cisco vs. Linux" thread

[James Sneeringer]

On Sat, Jul 10, 2004 at 04:51:40PM -0600, Glen Mabey wrote:
> Could anyone else recommend other manufacturers of this type of
> hardware: an embedded system board with 
> * a couple of NICs
> * PCMCIA
> * runs linux

Try Soekris or Acrosser.  Both make boards that work with Linux.

http://www.soekris.com/
http://www.acrosser.com/

-James

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Re: [LARTC] the "cisco vs. Linux" thread

[José Ildefonso Camargo Tolosa]

Hi!

> Message: 9 Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2004 16:51:40 -0600 To: LARTC Mailing List <lartc@mailman.ds9a.nl> Subject: Re: [LARTC] the "cisco vs. Linux" thread Reply-To: Glen.Mabey@usu.edu From: Glen Mabey <glen@mabeys.dsl.aros.net> On Fri, Jul 09, 2004 at 10:35:22AM -0400, Alfie Viechweg wrote:
> 
>>> Regarding building your own router/switch. You might want to check out 
>>> www.routerboard.com for a
>>> really reasonably priced 4 port NIC.
> 
> 
> I had no idea this type of board existed! (forgive my excitement)
> 
> Alfie, have you used the Routerboard 230 or 240 products?  
> Anyone else?
> 
> Could anyone else recommend other manufacturers of this type of
> hardware: an embedded system board with 
> * a couple of NICs
> * PCMCIA
> * runs linux

This one, and its cheaper:

http://www.soekris.com/

you may want to check out:

http://www.netgate.com/ (good wireless stuff).

I'm trying to buy some of the soekris hardware, but still need to get 
some more money. :(

> 
> Thanks --
> Glen
> 
> -- ****************************************************************** Glen W. Mabey Glen.Mabey@usu.edu http://mabeys.homelinux.com/glen/ ****************************************************************** 

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Re: [LARTC] the "cisco vs. Linux" thread

[przemolicc]

On Thu, Jul 08, 2004 at 02:44:26PM -0700, Nicholas Erkert wrote:
> On a side note has anyone built a linux router with dual/quad port 
> ethernet cards (ie Intel PRO/1000 MT Quad Port Server Adapter)?

I have bulit a linux router with quad D-Link DFE-580TX nics.
It works like a charm and is routing between four
local LANs. But had to use kernel patch for those
cards because in-kernel driver wasn't good enough.

przemol
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Re: [LARTC] the "cisco vs. Linux" thread

[Abraham van der Merwe]

Hi przemolicc                                    >@2004.07.12_09:18:07_+0200

> > On a side note has anyone built a linux router with dual/quad port 
> > ethernet cards (ie Intel PRO/1000 MT Quad Port Server Adapter)?
> 
> I have bulit a linux router with quad D-Link DFE-580TX nics.
> It works like a charm and is routing between four
> local LANs. But had to use kernel patch for those
> cards because in-kernel driver wasn't good enough.

Could you please post a link to the driver for that nic?

-- 

Regards
 Abraham

TODAY the Pond!
TOMORROW the World!
                -- Frogs (1972)

___________________________________________________
 Abraham vd Merwe - Frogfoot Networks CC
 1st Floor, Albion Springs, 183 Main Road, Newlands
 Phone: +27 21 689 3876 Cell: +27 82 565 4451
 Http: http://www.frogfoot.net/ Email: abz@frogfoot.net

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Re: [LARTC] the "cisco vs. Linux" thread

[przemolicc]

On Mon, Jul 12, 2004 at 10:15:57AM +0200, Abraham van der Merwe wrote:
> Hi przemolicc                                    >@2004.07.12_09:18:07_+0200
> 
> > > On a side note has anyone built a linux router with dual/quad port 
> > > ethernet cards (ie Intel PRO/1000 MT Quad Port Server Adapter)?
> > 
> > I have bulit a linux router with quad D-Link DFE-580TX nics.
> > It works like a charm and is routing between four
> > local LANs. But had to use kernel patch for those
> > cards because in-kernel driver wasn't good enough.
> 
> Could you please post a link to the driver for that nic?

This is part of a header:

/* These identify the driver base version and may not be removed. */
static const char version1[] "sundance.c:v1.11 2/4/2003  Written by Donald Becker <becker@scyld.com>\n";
static const char version2[] "  http://www.scyld.com/network/sundance.html\n";
/* Updated to recommendations in pci-skeleton v2.12. */


przemol
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Re: [LARTC] the "cisco vs. Linux" thread

[przemolicc]

On Mon, Jul 12, 2004 at 10:56:56AM +0200, Abraham vd Merwe wrote:
> > This is part of a header:
> > 
> > /* These identify the driver base version and may not be removed. */
> > static const char version1[] > > "sundance.c:v1.11 2/4/2003  Written by Donald Becker <becker@scyld.com>\n";
> > static const char version2[] > > "  http://www.scyld.com/network/sundance.html\n";
> > /* Updated to recommendations in pci-skeleton v2.12. */
> 
> That looks rather outdated. The link is stale and Donald Becker hasn't
> worked on network drivers in ages.

I don't remember exact link. But you can look for string "sundance.c:v1.11"
in google.

Please don't send me cc copy - I am on the list.

przemol
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Re: [LARTC] the "cisco vs. Linux" thread

[José Ildefonso Camargo Tolosa]

Hi!

> Message: 9 Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2004 16:51:40 -0600 To: LARTC Mailing List <lartc@mailman.ds9a.nl> Subject: Re: [LARTC] the "cisco vs. Linux" thread Reply-To: Glen.Mabey@usu.edu From: Glen Mabey <glen@mabeys.dsl.aros.net> On Fri, Jul 09, 2004 at 10:35:22AM -0400, Alfie Viechweg wrote:
> 
>>> Regarding building your own router/switch. You might want to check out 
>>> www.routerboard.com for a
>>> really reasonably priced 4 port NIC.
> 
> 
> I had no idea this type of board existed! (forgive my excitement)
> 
> Alfie, have you used the Routerboard 230 or 240 products?  
> Anyone else?
> 
> Could anyone else recommend other manufacturers of this type of
> hardware: an embedded system board with 
> * a couple of NICs
> * PCMCIA
> * runs linux

This one, and its cheaper:

http://www.soekris.com/

you may want to check out:

http://www.netgate.com/ (good wireless stuff).

I'm trying to buy some of the soekris hardware, but still need to get
some more money. :(

> 
> Thanks --
> Glen
> 
> -- ****************************************************************** Glen W. Mabey Glen.Mabey@usu.edu http://mabeys.homelinux.com/glen/ ****************************************************************** 


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Re: [LARTC] the "cisco vs. Linux" thread

[Ed Wildgoose]

>> Alfie, have you used the Routerboard 230 or 240 products?  Anyone else?
>>
>> Could anyone else recommend other manufacturers of this type of
>> hardware: an embedded system board with * a couple of NICs
>> * PCMCIA
>> * runs linux
>
>
> This one, and its cheaper:
>
> http://www.soekris.com/


Actually, I am really interested in this kind of hardware.  But it's 
actually not really as cheap as it looks.  (Bear in mind I am based in 
the UK so I am looking post-shipping price)

Most of these tiny embeded devices need $20-30 or powersupply, and same 
again for a case, and a bit of RAM...  It looks like around £300 
sterling to me all in.  However, you can often pickup a bottom of the 
range Compaq/HP server for that price... (OK, not as small and neat!)

There are some really nice and neat little boxes, which would be good 
for a mid-priced box where you need the grunt. 

...But for low end hardware it seems hard to beat the Linksys WRT54GS 
which is around £50 GPB from ebuyer....  This gets you 32Mb and a 200Mhz 
processor! (and 2 net cards, a small switch and a wireless radio!)

The "S" model is only starting to arrive in the UK so mine's on 
backorder, but I think it's easily available in the US?

Ed W
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Re: [LARTC] the "cisco vs. Linux" thread

[José Ildefonso Camargo Tolosa]

Ed Wildgoose wrote:
> 
>>> Alfie, have you used the Routerboard 230 or 240 products?  Anyone else?
>>>
>>> Could anyone else recommend other manufacturers of this type of
>>> hardware: an embedded system board with * a couple of NICs
>>> * PCMCIA
>>> * runs linux
>>
>>
>>
>> This one, and its cheaper:
>>
>> http://www.soekris.com/
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, I am really interested in this kind of hardware.  But it's 
> actually not really as cheap as it looks.  (Bear in mind I am based in 
> the UK so I am looking post-shipping price)
> 
> Most of these tiny embeded devices need $20-30 or powersupply, and same 
> again for a case, and a bit of RAM...  It looks like around £300 

No, it have RAM on board (and some of them, flash memory), the power 
supply is unregulated AC (read the specs), so you can buy it on your 
country.

> sterling to me all in.  However, you can often pickup a bottom of the 
> range Compaq/HP server for that price... (OK, not as small and neat!)
> 
> There are some really nice and neat little boxes, which would be good 
> for a mid-priced box where you need the grunt.
> ...But for low end hardware it seems hard to beat the Linksys WRT54GS 
> which is around £50 GPB from ebuyer....  This gets you 32Mb and a 200Mhz 
> processor! (and 2 net cards, a small switch and a wireless radio!)

I have used linksys (what a piece of crab), and I still preffer to buy a 
soekris card and a mini-PCI 802.11g card from netgate.  I can install 
Linux on it, an get a very powerfull router/firewall/vpn.  And due that 
I need it for outdoor mounting, I would buy a nema box.

Can you Install Linux/OpenBSD/FreeBSD on it?

> 
> The "S" model is only starting to arrive in the UK so mine's on 
> backorder, but I think it's easily available in the US?
> 
> Ed W
> 

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Re: [LARTC] the "cisco vs. Linux" thread

[Ed Wildgoose]

I just saw a post on the wrt54g yahoo list which was quite interesting.  
It's mainly a list of tiny routers, but at the bottom they list some of 
the other boards like those being discussed here:

http://www.seattlewireless.net/index.cgi/HardwareComparison

The main page here is where I came in.  I'm interested in getting a 
Linksys wrt54gs first for testing.  Looks like a 200Mhz processor with 
32Mb ram that runs a linux distro.  You can install pretty much what you 
want, although bear in mind it's a mips architecture.

http://www.seattlewireless.net/index.cgi/LinksysWrt54g
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Re: [LARTC] the "cisco vs. Linux" thread

[Alfie Viechweg]

I haven't tried routerboard as yet. Seem like one of the most cost 
effective way to add more ports to your
own switch/router/brouter device.

Another probably more complicated way is to use a USB hub, multiport USB 
card or the ports built into
your PC with USB ethernet devices.

The USB ethernet devices a quite expensive compared to plain ethernet - 
even gigabit - but if you use
an embeded board or a mico atx with a shotage of slots this a solution 
for getting up to a staggering
128 ethernet ports - in theory.

Wireless USB would make things even more interesting in this arena.
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Re: [LARTC] the "cisco vs. Linux" thread

[Ed Wildgoose]

> Another probably more complicated way is to use a USB hub, multiport 
> USB card or the ports built into
> your PC with USB ethernet devices.


USB 1 has a 12 Mbit bandwidth though.  And you won't be able to use all 
of that in practice either.  USB 2 is a lot higher, several hundred 
mbits, but again you will probably find it hard to completely saturate it.

USB drivers also tend to be nasty and flaky in my experience...  Should 
get better in time though.

Now a motherboard with several gigabit connections in the southbridge, 
or perhaps even multiple PCI Express interfaces... Now you would be 
talking about something cheap that could knock even a top end CISCO 
sideways...!

Some of these new Asus P4 boards look extremely close now.


P.S. Doesn't look that hot, but no one mentioned the "open brick" yet as 
a possibility
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