From: "H. Peter Anvin" <hpa@zytor.com>
To: "David P. Reed" <dpreed@reed.com>
Cc: Juergen Beisert <juergen127@kreuzholzen.de>,
linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, Alan Cox <alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk>,
Ingo Molnar <mingo@elte.hu>,
Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>,
Rene Herman <rene.herman@keyaccess.nl>,
Islam Amer <pharon@gmail.com>, Pavel Machek <pavel@ucw.cz>,
Ingo Molnar <mingo@redhat.com>, Andi Kleen <andi@firstfloor.org>,
Thomas Gleixner <tglx@linutronix.de>
Subject: Re: [PATCH] x86: provide a DMI based port 0x80 I/O delay override
Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2007 17:40:18 -0800 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <47784882.9050606@zytor.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <47783FFD.3070302@reed.com>
David P. Reed wrote:
>
>
> H. Peter Anvin wrote:
>> Now, I think there is a specific reason to believe that EGA/VGA (but
>> perhaps not CGA/MDA) didn't need these kinds of hacks: the video cards
>> of the day was touched, directly, by an interminable number of DOS
>> applications. CGA/MDA generally *were not*, due to the unsynchronized
>> memory of the original versions (writing could cause snow), so most
>> applications tended to fall back to using the BIOS access methods for
>> CGA and MDA.
>>
> A little history... not that it really matters, but some might be
> interested in a 55-year-old hacker's sentimental recollections...As
> someone who actually wrote drivers for CGA and MDA on the original IBM
> PC, I can tell you that back to back I/O *port* writes and reads were
> perfectly fine. The "snow" problem had nothing to do with I/O ports.
> It had to do with the memory on the CGA adapter card not being dual
> ported, and in high-res (80x25) character mode (only!) a CPU read or
> write access caused a read of the adapter memory by the
> character-generator to fail, causing one character-position of the
> current scanline being output to get all random bits, which was then put
> through the character-generator and generated whatever the character
> generator did with 8 random bits of character or attributes as an index
> into the character generator's font table.
>
[Additional history snipped]
This is all true of course (and a useful history lesson to those not
familiar with it) but what I wrote above is still true: due to the lack
of synchronized memory (it doesn't have to be dual-ported, just
synchronized, if it has enough bandwidth), most DOS applications *in the
i386+ timeframe* just invoked the BIOS rather than dealing with the
synchronization needs themselves (anything compiled with a Borland
compiler using their conio library, for example.)
Hence the variety of software that poked directly at CGA/MDA as opposed
to EGA/VGA was smaller, but I never claimed it was uncommon.
-hpa
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2007-12-31 1:41 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 186+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2007-12-30 3:34 [PATCH] x86: provide a DMI based port 0x80 I/O delay override Rene Herman
2007-12-30 9:30 ` Linus Torvalds
2007-12-30 12:48 ` Andi Kleen
2007-12-30 13:05 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-12-30 16:08 ` Andi Kleen
2007-12-30 16:28 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-12-30 18:21 ` Andi Kleen
2007-12-30 13:03 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-12-30 14:14 ` Rene Herman
2007-12-30 14:47 ` Alan Cox
2007-12-30 15:28 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-12-30 15:38 ` Alan Cox
2007-12-30 16:01 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-12-30 16:48 ` Alan Cox
2007-12-30 17:08 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-12-30 18:14 ` Rene Herman
2007-12-30 18:39 ` Alan Cox
2007-12-30 19:33 ` Rene Herman
2007-12-30 20:00 ` Linus Torvalds
2007-12-30 20:09 ` Rene Herman
2007-12-30 21:20 ` David P. Reed
2007-12-30 21:36 ` Alan Cox
2007-12-30 23:14 ` David P. Reed
2007-12-31 0:23 ` H. Peter Anvin
2007-12-31 11:59 ` Alan Cox
2007-12-31 18:19 ` H. Peter Anvin
2007-12-31 12:23 ` Alan Cox
2007-12-31 14:35 ` Rene Herman
2007-12-31 15:56 ` Alan Cox
2007-12-31 20:22 ` Ondrej Zary
2007-12-31 21:25 ` Alan Cox
2007-12-31 21:47 ` H. Peter Anvin
2007-12-31 23:24 ` Alan Cox
2007-12-31 23:41 ` H. Peter Anvin
2008-01-02 3:01 ` Rene Herman
2007-12-30 17:10 ` Juergen Beisert
2007-12-30 20:50 ` H. Peter Anvin
2007-12-31 1:03 ` David P. Reed
2007-12-31 1:40 ` H. Peter Anvin [this message]
2007-12-30 15:47 ` Rene Herman
2007-12-30 16:07 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-12-30 16:27 ` Rene Herman
2007-12-30 17:06 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-12-30 17:54 ` Rene Herman
2007-12-30 18:29 ` Alan Cox
2007-12-30 18:43 ` Andi Kleen
2007-12-30 20:46 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-12-30 21:07 ` Rene Herman
2007-12-30 21:25 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-12-30 21:29 ` Alan Cox
2007-12-30 22:03 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-12-31 13:11 ` Pavel Machek
2008-01-01 16:48 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-12-30 18:40 ` Linus Torvalds
2007-12-30 20:34 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-12-30 21:28 ` Alan Cox
2007-12-30 21:54 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-12-30 21:13 ` Alan Cox
2007-12-31 15:29 ` Christer Weinigel
2007-12-31 13:21 ` Pavel Machek
2007-12-31 12:29 ` Alan Cox
[not found] <9BdU5-1YW-9@gated-at.bofh.it>
[not found] ` <9BeZN-3Gf-5@gated-at.bofh.it>
[not found] ` <9BnTB-1As-31@gated-at.bofh.it>
[not found] ` <9BrX4-8go-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
[not found] ` <9BuBG-4eR-51@gated-at.bofh.it>
[not found] ` <9BvRd-6aL-71@gated-at.bofh.it>
[not found] ` <9GRQW-1DX-13@gated-at.bofh.it>
[not found] ` <9GSah-23W-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
[not found] ` <9GSDy-2GD-23@gated-at.bofh.it>
[not found] ` <9GTpK-40d-15@gated-at.bofh.it>
[not found] ` <9GUvy-5H2-11@gated-at.bofh.it>
[not found] ` <9GVKU-7SS-25@gated-at.bofh.it>
2008-01-07 19:38 ` Bodo Eggert
2008-01-07 19:46 ` H. Peter Anvin
2008-01-07 22:02 ` Bodo Eggert
2008-01-07 22:10 ` H. Peter Anvin
2008-01-07 22:27 ` Bodo Eggert
2008-01-07 22:59 ` Rene Herman
2008-01-07 23:24 ` H. Peter Anvin
2008-01-07 23:26 ` Rene Herman
2008-01-08 0:10 ` [linux-kernel] " David P. Reed
2008-01-09 21:01 ` Matthieu castet
2008-01-08 12:51 ` Bodo Eggert
2008-01-08 14:09 ` Rene Herman
2008-01-08 14:31 ` Alan Cox
2008-01-07 23:25 ` Alan Cox
2008-01-08 13:17 ` Bodo Eggert
2008-01-08 14:38 ` Alan Cox
2008-01-08 3:15 ` Christer Weinigel
[not found] <fa.PuxU73ceCfHAUeWLO4W21Zbrm7A@ifi.uio.no>
[not found] ` <fa.ipKZdmvkNYmQ40C0cO+2u3eYohw@ifi.uio.no>
[not found] ` <fa.ppsa4qOLo1V8UlDNTucnaqIJmKA@ifi.uio.no>
[not found] ` <fa.3IG7z0AfHuLo9eQjn7Gkl/+/lnA@ifi.uio.no>
[not found] ` <fa.slc2tTnUBrTGO2aTi/C5UGHEEEM@ifi.uio.no>
[not found] ` <fa.8g+KfLLge6wS5cEnKhZJmdkIVAI@ifi.uio.no>
2007-12-30 18:22 ` Robert Hancock
[not found] ` <fa.XY5q1SY4QX+yjnE6p8T3kbTt/8I@ifi.uio.no>
[not found] ` <fa.KEBfnq5vGkAJSEhZSx7+yy+Hdbs@ifi.uio.no>
[not found] ` <fa.MLKgXLxgzIKzm4bQXjEOqg9oDwU@ifi.uio.no>
[not found] ` <fa.KbCnGLPlUEYe/Ibajd+hTY7A7Qw@ifi.uio.no>
2007-12-31 18:21 ` Robert Hancock
[not found] <9FXbU-3M4-11@gated-at.bofh.it>
[not found] ` <9G2Om-4hg-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
[not found] ` <9G7O3-3O2-7@gated-at.bofh.it>
[not found] ` <9G8qN-4TX-13@gated-at.bofh.it>
2007-12-30 17:50 ` Bodo Eggert
2007-12-30 18:10 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-12-30 20:56 ` H. Peter Anvin
2007-12-30 21:00 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-12-30 21:32 ` Bodo Eggert
2007-12-30 21:33 ` Alan Cox
2007-12-30 22:02 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-12-30 21:44 ` H. Peter Anvin
2007-12-30 21:58 ` Rene Herman
2007-12-30 20:53 ` H. Peter Anvin
2007-12-30 21:31 ` Alan Cox
2007-12-31 14:39 ` Bodo Eggert
2007-12-31 15:56 ` Alan Cox
[not found] <469578CD.3080609@reed.com>
[not found] ` <1184216528.12353.203.camel@chaos>
[not found] ` <1184218962.12353.209.camel@chaos>
[not found] ` <46964352.7040301@reed.com>
[not found] ` <1184253339.12353.223.camel@chaos>
[not found] ` <469697C6.50903@reed.com>
[not found] ` <1184274754.12353.254.camel@chaos>
2007-12-14 2:59 ` [PATCH] x86_64: fix problems due to use of "outb" to port 80 on some AMD64x2 laptops, etc David P. Reed
2007-12-14 13:15 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-12-14 18:02 ` H. Peter Anvin
2007-12-14 21:06 ` Pavel Machek
2007-12-14 22:13 ` H. Peter Anvin
2007-12-14 23:29 ` Alan Cox
2007-12-15 8:08 ` Paul Rolland
2007-12-15 8:13 ` Rene Herman
2007-12-15 20:27 ` H. Peter Anvin
2007-12-15 23:26 ` [PATCH] x86: " Rene Herman
2007-12-15 23:51 ` H. Peter Anvin
2007-12-16 13:15 ` [PATCH] x86: provide a DMI based port 0x80 I/O delay override Rene Herman
2007-12-16 15:22 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-12-17 1:43 ` Rene Herman
2007-12-17 2:05 ` H. Peter Anvin
2007-12-17 2:19 ` Rene Herman
2007-12-17 3:35 ` H. Peter Anvin
2007-12-17 13:02 ` Rene Herman
2007-12-17 17:14 ` H. Peter Anvin
2007-12-17 19:43 ` David P. Reed
2007-12-17 19:55 ` H. Peter Anvin
2007-12-17 21:02 ` David P. Reed
2007-12-17 21:17 ` H. Peter Anvin
2007-12-17 21:25 ` Alan Cox
2008-01-01 15:57 ` David P. Reed
2008-01-01 21:16 ` H. Peter Anvin
2008-01-01 15:59 ` David P. Reed
2008-01-01 16:15 ` Alan Cox
2008-01-01 16:43 ` Ingo Molnar
2008-01-01 17:32 ` Alan Cox
2008-01-01 18:45 ` Ingo Molnar
2008-01-01 20:14 ` Christer Weinigel
2008-01-01 21:13 ` Alan Cox
2008-01-01 21:07 ` Alan Cox
2008-01-02 10:04 ` Ingo Molnar
2008-01-02 13:47 ` Alan Cox
2008-01-02 15:35 ` Rene Herman
2008-01-02 15:50 ` Rene Herman
2008-01-01 17:32 ` Christer Weinigel
2008-01-01 18:46 ` Ingo Molnar
2008-01-01 19:35 ` Christer Weinigel
2008-01-01 19:59 ` Rene Herman
2008-01-01 20:55 ` Christer Weinigel
2008-01-01 21:24 ` H. Peter Anvin
2008-01-01 21:01 ` Ingo Molnar
2008-01-01 21:26 ` Alan Cox
2008-01-01 21:42 ` Christer Weinigel
2008-01-01 21:42 ` Rene Herman
2008-01-01 21:50 ` H. Peter Anvin
2008-01-01 21:21 ` H. Peter Anvin
2008-01-01 23:05 ` Christer Weinigel
2008-01-01 23:12 ` Alan Cox
2008-01-02 0:23 ` Christer Weinigel
2008-01-02 10:00 ` Ingo Molnar
2008-01-01 17:32 ` David P. Reed
2008-01-01 17:38 ` Alan Cox
2008-01-01 21:15 ` H. Peter Anvin
2008-01-01 21:35 ` Rene Herman
2008-01-01 21:44 ` H. Peter Anvin
2008-01-01 22:35 ` Rene Herman
2008-01-01 22:39 ` H. Peter Anvin
2008-01-01 23:11 ` Rene Herman
2008-01-02 0:25 ` Rene Herman
2008-01-02 0:55 ` Christer Weinigel
2008-01-02 1:00 ` Rene Herman
2008-01-02 2:27 ` H. Peter Anvin
2008-01-09 17:27 ` Maciej W. Rozycki
2008-01-09 18:18 ` H. Peter Anvin
2008-01-01 17:31 ` Pavel Machek
2008-01-01 17:33 ` David P. Reed
2007-12-17 4:09 ` H. Peter Anvin
2007-12-17 10:57 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-12-17 11:29 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-12-17 13:34 ` David P. Reed
2007-12-17 12:15 ` Rene Herman
2007-12-17 13:09 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-12-17 13:22 ` Rene Herman
2007-12-17 13:31 ` Pavel Machek
2007-12-17 13:31 ` Rene Herman
2007-12-17 13:32 ` David P. Reed
2007-12-17 13:36 ` Rene Herman
2007-12-17 14:39 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-12-17 16:12 ` Alan Cox
2007-12-17 16:48 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-12-17 20:48 ` Rene Herman
2007-12-17 20:57 ` H. Peter Anvin
2007-12-17 21:33 ` Rene Herman
2007-12-17 21:40 ` H. Peter Anvin
2007-12-17 21:46 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-12-17 21:50 ` Rene Herman
2007-12-17 21:41 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-12-17 21:47 ` Rene Herman
2007-12-17 21:56 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-12-17 22:01 ` Rene Herman
2007-12-17 22:18 ` David P. Reed
2007-12-17 19:38 ` David P. Reed
2007-12-17 19:55 ` H. Peter Anvin
2007-12-17 21:28 ` Ingo Molnar
2007-12-16 21:42 ` H. Peter Anvin
2007-12-17 1:48 ` Rene Herman
2007-12-17 1:53 ` H. Peter Anvin
2007-12-16 23:12 ` David P. Reed
2007-12-17 1:56 ` Rene Herman
2007-12-17 2:04 ` H. Peter Anvin
2007-12-17 2:15 ` Rene Herman
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