Re: [2.00] grub-install use on UEFI system?

Re: [2.00] grub-install use on UEFI system?

[yannubuntu]

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Try using the command:
> grub-install --target=x86_64-efi --efi-directory="<root efi directory,
> eg. /boot/efi>"
>

Thank you Aaron

With 1.99, i only had to use 'grub-install' (without any parameter, and not
necessarily booted in EFI mode).
It would be nice (for retrocompatibility) if 2.00 could do the same (eg it
could guess the 32/64 architecture, and set --efi-directory to /boot/efi by
default).



> You can also specify any modules you want with --modules. However this
> method does require you to already be booted via EFI grub-install can
> access the EFI vars.
>

ok thanks!

Regards
Yann



>
> Thanks,
> Aaron
>
>
> On Tue, Sep 25, 2012 at 6:12 PM, yannubuntu@gmail.com
> <yannubuntu@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Dear all,
> >
> > Take a system with grub-efi 2.00 package already installed.
> > How do you use 'grub-install' to create a new grub*.efi file in the ESP ?
> >
> > Regards
> > Yann
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Help-grub mailing list
> > Help-grub@gnu.org
> > https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/help-grub
> >
>

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Re: [2.00] grub-install use on UEFI system?

[Chris Murphy]

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On Sep 25, 2012, at 6:17 AM, yannubuntu@gmail.com wrote:
> 
> With 1.99, i only had to use 'grub-install' (without any parameter, and not necessarily booted in EFI mode). 
> It would be nice (for retrocompatibility) if 2.00 could do the same (eg it could guess the 32/64 architecture, and set --efi-directory to /boot/efi by default).

It's not that simple. /boot/efi is just a mount point for the EFI System partition. grub.efi can't free float on that partition, it won't be found. It needs to go in /efi/grub or /efi/fedora or /efi/suse or whatever, per the UEFI spec. I think for upstream grub it probably would be <mountpoint>/efi/grub. And then each distribution can modify so their grub-install will place grub.efi in the distribution specific location on the EFI System partition.

Chris Murphy

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Re: [2.00] grub-install use on UEFI system?

[yannubuntu]

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2012/9/25 Chris Murphy <lists@colorremedies.com>

>
> On Sep 25, 2012, at 6:17 AM, yannubuntu@gmail.com wrote:
>
>
> With 1.99, i only had to use 'grub-install' (without any parameter, and
> not necessarily booted in EFI mode).
> It would be nice (for retrocompatibility) if 2.00 could do the same (eg it
> could guess the 32/64 architecture, and set --efi-directory to /boot/efi by
> default).
>
>
> It's not that simple. /boot/efi is just a mount point for the EFI System
> partition. grub.efi can't free float on that partition, it won't be found.
> It needs to go in /efi/grub or /efi/fedora or /efi/suse or whatever, per
> the UEFI spec. I think for upstream grub it probably would be
> <mountpoint>/efi/grub. And then each distribution can modify so their
> grub-install will place grub.efi in the distribution specific location on
> the EFI System partition.
>

Thanks Chris,

I agree that GRUB needs to know in which ESP's sub-folder (eg /efi/fedora)
it needs to create the grub*.efi file, but then i wonder:

1) why does 'grub-install' (without any parameter) work for Ubuntu12.04
(grub1.99) ?
2) why does the command indicated by Aaron for 2.00 (grub-install
--target=x86_64-efi --efi-directory="<root efi directory, eg. /boot/efi>")
does not specify this sub-folder ?

Regards
Yann

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Re: [2.00] grub-install use on UEFI system?

[Vladimir 'φ-coder/phcoder' Serbinenko]

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On 25.09.2012 20:42, yannubuntu@gmail.com wrote:

> 
> 
> 2012/9/25 Chris Murphy <lists@colorremedies.com
> <mailto:lists@colorremedies.com>>
> 
> 
>     On Sep 25, 2012, at 6:17 AM, yannubuntu@gmail.com
>     <mailto:yannubuntu@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>     With 1.99, i only had to use 'grub-install' (without any
>>     parameter, and not necessarily booted in EFI mode).
>>     It would be nice (for retrocompatibility) if 2.00 could do the
>>     same (eg it could guess the 32/64 architecture, and set
>>     --efi-directory to /boot/efi by default).
> 
>     It's not that simple. /boot/efi is just a mount point for the EFI
>     System partition. grub.efi can't free float on that partition, it
>     won't be found. It needs to go in /efi/grub or /efi/fedora or
>     /efi/suse or whatever, per the UEFI spec. I think for upstream grub
>     it probably would be <mountpoint>/efi/grub. And then each
>     distribution can modify so their grub-install will place grub.efi in
>     the distribution specific location on the EFI System partition.
> 
> 
> Thanks Chris,
> 
> I agree that GRUB needs to know in which ESP's sub-folder (eg
> /efi/fedora) it needs to create the grub*.efi file, but then i wonder:
> 
> 1) why does 'grub-install' (without any parameter) work for Ubuntu12.04
> (grub1.99) ?

Probably because your kernel doesn't handle EFI properly so grub-install
wasn't able to detect it (/sys/firmware/efi was missing). For older
versions only one flavour of GRUB could be installed at a time.

> 2) why does the command indicated by Aaron for 2.00 (grub-install
> --target=x86_64-efi --efi-directory="<root efi directory, eg.
> /boot/efi>") does not specify this sub-folder ?
> 

Because this is not part of efi-directory (and RTFM)

> Regards
> Yann
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Grub-devel mailing list
> Grub-devel@gnu.org
> https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/grub-devel



-- 
Regards
Vladimir 'φ-coder/phcoder' Serbinenko


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Re: [2.00] grub-install use on UEFI system?

[yannubuntu]

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> > 1) why does 'grub-install' (without any parameter) work for Ubuntu12.04
> > (grub1.99) ?
>
> Probably because your kernel doesn't handle EFI properly so grub-install
> wasn't able to detect it (/sys/firmware/efi was missing).


Hi Vladimir

- here is an example where /sys/firmware/efi is not missing:
http://paste.ubuntu.com/1227221



> > 2) why does the command indicated by Aaron for 2.00 (grub-install
> > --target=x86_64-efi --efi-directory="<root efi directory, eg.
> > /boot/efi>") does not specify this sub-folder ?
> >
>
>
> Because this is not part of efi-directory


Yes, exactly. This is why i don't understand Chris comment.


> (and RTFM)
>

AFAIK there is nothing about this subject (grub-install for UEFI) in GRUB
2.00 Manual:
http://www.gnu.org/software/grub/manual/html_node/Invoking-grub_002dinstall.html#Invoking-grub_002dinstall

Thanks in advance for any input. (GRUB with UEFI problems are more and more
frequent on forums.)
Yann

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Re: [2.00] grub-install use on UEFI system?

[Vladimir 'φ-coder/phcoder' Serbinenko]

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On 26.09.2012 10:07, yannubuntu@gmail.com wrote:

> 
>     > 1) why does 'grub-install' (without any parameter) work for
>     Ubuntu12.04
>     > (grub1.99) ?
> 
>     Probably because your kernel doesn't handle EFI properly so grub-install
>     wasn't able to detect it (/sys/firmware/efi was missing).
> 
> 
> Hi Vladimir
> 
> - here is an example where /sys/firmware/efi is not missing:
> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1227221
> 

Then recent grub-install will recognise EFI on this system and install
EFI flavour.

>  
> 
>     > 2) why does the command indicated by Aaron for 2.00 (grub-install
>     > --target=x86_64-efi --efi-directory="<root efi directory, eg.
>     > /boot/efi>") does not specify this sub-folder ?
>     >
> 
> 
>     Because this is not part of efi-directory
> 
> 
> Yes, exactly. This is why i don't understand Chris comment.
>  
> 
>     (and RTFM)
> 
> 
> AFAIK there is nothing about this subject (grub-install for UEFI) in
> GRUB 2.00 Manual:
> http://www.gnu.org/software/grub/manual/html_node/Invoking-grub_002dinstall.html#Invoking-grub_002dinstall
> 
> Thanks in advance for any input. (GRUB with UEFI problems are more and
> more frequent on forums.)

grub-install --help

> Yann
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Grub-devel mailing list
> Grub-devel@gnu.org
> https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/grub-devel



-- 
Regards
Vladimir 'φ-coder/phcoder' Serbinenko


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Re: [2.00] grub-install use on UEFI system?

[Chris Murphy]

On Sep 26, 2012, at 3:12 AM, Vladimir 'φ-coder/phcoder' Serbinenko wrote:

> grub-install --help

I'll argue --help is not a manual, and the results on this point are confusing. The GRUB2 manual is devoid of useful UEFI information, actually it doesn't mention UEFI at all, and the parts that mention EFI are obscure.


  --boot-directory=DIR    install GRUB images under the directory DIR/grub2
                          instead of the /boot/grub2 directory

This is clear. What I specify will have /grub2/ (this is Fedora) added-on.

  --efi-directory=DIR     use DIR as the EFI System Partition root.

This makes no sense. On the one hand it's indicating that grub.efi ends up precisely in the location I supply. If I supply =/boot/efi then grub.efi will end up there, which on linux systems will be free-floating at the EFI System partition root, and it won't be found by the firmware. If grub-install supplies the /efi/grub/ add-on to whatever I supply, this needs to be in the --help results just like it is for --boot-directory.

--help implies that if I specify /boot/efi/efi/grub/ that grub.efi ends up in a suitable location, but this is not "the EFI System Partition" root.

So --help, at the moment, is almost useless. I have to poke it with a stick to find out how it's going to work.

Chris Murphy

Re: [2.00] grub-install use on UEFI system?

[Vladimir 'φ-coder/phcoder' Serbinenko]

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On 26.09.2012 18:54, Chris Murphy wrote:

> This is clear. What I specify will have /grub2/ (this is Fedora) added-on.
> 
>   --efi-directory=DIR     use DIR as the EFI System Partition root.
> 
> This makes no sense. On the one hand it's indicating that grub.efi ends up precisely in the location I supply. If I supply =/boot/efi then grub.efi will end up there,

No. It just means that DIR has to be the ESP mountpoint. IT doesn't
imply anything about where the .efi effectively lands.

-- 
Regards
Vladimir 'φ-coder/phcoder' Serbinenko


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Re: [2.00] grub-install use on UEFI system?

[Chris Murphy]

On Sep 26, 2012, at 11:17 AM, Vladimir 'φ-coder/phcoder' Serbinenko wrote:

> No. It just means that DIR has to be the ESP mountpoint. IT doesn't
> imply anything about where the .efi effectively lands.

That's the problem. The help for --boot-directory makes it clear where it will land. The entry for --efi-directory leaves it up to the imagination.

Chris Murphy

Re: [2.00] grub-install use on UEFI system?

[Andrey Borzenkov]

В Ср., 26/09/2012 в 12:08 -0600, Chris Murphy пишет:
> On Sep 26, 2012, at 11:17 AM, Vladimir 'φ-coder/phcoder' Serbinenko wrote:
> 
> > No. It just means that DIR has to be the ESP mountpoint. IT doesn't
> > imply anything about where the .efi effectively lands.
> 
> That's the problem. The help for --boot-directory makes it clear where it will land. The entry for --efi-directory leaves it up to the imagination.
> 

One problem is, where it lands depends on whether it is removable
install or not and whether distributor is set or not. How you describe
it in single help line? It rather belongs to grub documentation.

-andrey

Re: [2.00] grub-install use on UEFI system?

[Chris Murphy]

On Sep 26, 2012, at 12:22 PM, Andrey Borzenkov wrote:

> One problem is, where it lands depends on whether it is removable
> install or not and whether distributor is set or not. How you describe
> it in single help line? It rather belongs to grub documentation.

It would be useful in the --help version to note if it's required or not on UEFI systems. Right now it's ambiguous if it's a necessary option or not. If the landing place of grub.efi is variable, merely say "grub.efi installation location depends on destination device and distribution".

And yes, it rather belongs to grub documentation which is why I find it hilarious a GRUB developer is writing RTFM when well prior to that it should be WTFM. The GRUB manual is a C.F. of mayhem and obscurity as it is, but it's a waste land of nothingness when it comes to UEFI. So RTFM? That's pure GRUB comedy. Maybe it's an inside joke to tell people to go read non-existent documentation.

Chris Murphy

Re: [2.00] grub-install use on UEFI system?

[Vladimir 'φ-coder/phcoder' Serbinenko]

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On 26.09.2012 20:39, Chris Murphy wrote:

> 
> On Sep 26, 2012, at 12:22 PM, Andrey Borzenkov wrote:
> 
>> One problem is, where it lands depends on whether it is removable
>> install or not and whether distributor is set or not. How you describe
>> it in single help line? It rather belongs to grub documentation.
> 
> It would be useful in the --help version to note if it's required or not on UEFI systems. Right now it's ambiguous if it's a necessary option or not. If the landing place of grub.efi is variable, merely say "grub.efi installation location depends on destination device and distribution".
> 
> And yes, it rather belongs to grub documentation which is why I find it hilarious a GRUB developer is writing RTFM when well prior to that it should be WTFM. The GRUB manual is a C.F. of mayhem and obscurity as it is, but it's a waste land of nothingness when it comes to UEFI. So RTFM? That's pure GRUB comedy. Maybe it's an inside joke to tell people to go read non-existent documentation.
> 

It's an empty discussion since I have no time to write this doc and
nobody else proposed himself to do it. Until this changes this
discussion has no point.

> Chris Murphy
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Grub-devel mailing list
> Grub-devel@gnu.org
> https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/grub-devel
> 



-- 
Regards
Vladimir 'φ-coder/phcoder' Serbinenko


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Re: [2.00] grub-install use on UEFI system?

[Chris Murphy]

On Sep 26, 2012, at 1:49 PM, Vladimir 'φ-coder/phcoder' Serbinenko wrote:

> 
> It's an empty discussion since I have no time to write this doc and
> nobody else proposed himself to do it. Until this changes this
> discussion has no point.

You have no time to write a doc you're admitting needs writing, but you have time to tell people to RTFM for a FM that doesn't exist. You are not entitled to use RTFM in this context.

Using RTFM is legit when there's sufficient documentation available and a user/developer is just being lazy. In that case, RTFM is amusing, appropriate, and deserved. In this case, I think it was F'N rude.

Chris

Re: [2.00] grub-install use on UEFI system?

[Vladimir 'φ-coder/phcoder' Serbinenko]

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On 26.09.2012 22:45, Chris Murphy wrote:

> 
> On Sep 26, 2012, at 1:49 PM, Vladimir 'φ-coder/phcoder' Serbinenko wrote:
> 
>>
>> It's an empty discussion since I have no time to write this doc and
>> nobody else proposed himself to do it. Until this changes this
>> discussion has no point.
> 
> You have no time to write a doc you're admitting needs writing, but you have time to tell people to RTFM for a FM that doesn't exist. You are not entitled to use RTFM in this context.
> 
> Using RTFM is legit when there's sufficient documentation available and a user/developer is just being lazy. In that case, RTFM is amusing, appropriate, and deserved. In this case, I think it was F'N rude.
> 

The information in --help is enough if you know the subject in general,
and in particular understand the jargon. Most of your problems come from
inventing another meaning to jargon (like EFI System Partition is a
precise term).
But I get your point: I should have just ignored your mails altogether.

> Chris
> _______________________________________________
> Grub-devel mailing list
> Grub-devel@gnu.org
> https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/grub-devel



-- 
Regards
Vladimir 'φ-coder/phcoder' Serbinenko


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Re: [2.00] grub-install use on UEFI system?

[Andrey Borzenkov]

В Ср., 26/09/2012 в 21:49 +0200, Vladimir 'φ-coder/phcoder' Serbinenko
пишет:
> I have no time to write this doc and
> nobody else proposed himself to do it.

What does it involve beyond submitting a patch for documentation? I ask
because a while back I sent small doc patch and as still there is no
response I am not sure - was content wrong, was submission wrong or
documentation changes must go via different route.

Thank you

-andrey

Re: [2.00] grub-install use on UEFI system?

[Vladimir 'φ-coder/phcoder' Serbinenko]

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On 27.09.2012 17:05, Andrey Borzenkov wrote:

> В Ср., 26/09/2012 в 21:49 +0200, Vladimir 'φ-coder/phcoder' Serbinenko
> пишет:
>> I have no time to write this doc and
>> nobody else proposed himself to do it.
> 
> What does it involve beyond submitting a patch for documentation? I ask
> because a while back I sent small doc patch and as still there is no
> response I am not sure - was content wrong, was submission wrong or
> documentation changes must go via different route.
> 

Can you give me a link? I must have missed it.

> Thank you
> 
> -andrey
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Grub-devel mailing list
> Grub-devel@gnu.org
> https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/grub-devel



-- 
Regards
Vladimir 'φ-coder/phcoder' Serbinenko


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Re: [2.00] grub-install use on UEFI system?

[Andrey Borzenkov]

On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 11:44 PM, Vladimir 'φ-coder/phcoder'
Serbinenko <phcoder@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 27.09.2012 17:05, Andrey Borzenkov wrote:
>
>> В Ср., 26/09/2012 в 21:49 +0200, Vladimir 'φ-coder/phcoder' Serbinenko
>> пишет:
>>> I have no time to write this doc and
>>> nobody else proposed himself to do it.
>>
>> What does it involve beyond submitting a patch for documentation? I ask
>> because a while back I sent small doc patch and as still there is no
>> response I am not sure - was content wrong, was submission wrong or
>> documentation changes must go via different route.
>>
>
> Can you give me a link? I must have missed it.
>

Sure. http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/grub-devel/2012-09/msg00039.html

Re: [2.00] grub-install use on UEFI system?

[Tom Davies]

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Hi :)
I think the problem is that there are so few people in the documentation team.  Is there anyone in it?  


Andrey, it might be best to find how to do the changes directly and do the other changes that other people have reported at the same time.  I suspect that if you work on the documentation directly you increase the doc's team's size by over 100% and would be very much appreciated.
Regards from 

Tom :)  





>What does it involve beyond submitting a patch for documentation? I ask
>because a while back I sent small doc patch and as still there is no
>response I am not sure - was content wrong, was submission wrong or
>documentation changes must go via different route.
>
>Thank you
>
>-andrey
>
>
>

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Re: [2.00] grub-install use on UEFI system?

[Andrey Borzenkov]

On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 8:11 PM, Tom Davies <tomdavies04@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
> Andrey, it might be best to find how to do the changes directly and do the
> other changes that other people have reported at the same time.

Does it require being sworn in on a crossroad under full moon? I hope
no virgin sacrifice is needed, I have aversion to it ...

But seriously, I am not native English speaker so I definitely expect
someone who is to review any documentation submission that goes beyond
obvious typo correction.

And BTW, policy that any new command must be accompanied by respective
documentation snippet would if not reduce, but at least prevent
further growth of GRUB2 undocumented features.

-andrey