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From: Li Zefan <lizefan-hv44wF8Li93QT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
To: Tejun Heo <tj-DgEjT+Ai2ygdnm+yROfE0A@public.gmane.org>
Cc: containers-cunTk1MwBs9QetFLy7KEm3xJsTq8ys+cHZ5vskTnxNA@public.gmane.org,
	cgroups-u79uwXL29TY76Z2rM5mHXA@public.gmane.org,
	bsingharora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org,
	dhaval.giani-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org,
	Kay Sievers <kay.sievers-tD+1rO4QERM@public.gmane.org>,
	jpoimboe-H+wXaHxf7aLQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org,
	berrange-H+wXaHxf7aLQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org,
	lpoetter-H+wXaHxf7aLQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org,
	workman-devel-H+wXaHxf7aLQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org,
	linux-kernel-u79uwXL29TY76Z2rM5mHXA@public.gmane.org
Subject: Re: cgroup: status-quo and userland efforts
Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2013 09:29:32 +0800	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <516DFAFC.1030101@huawei.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20130416171056.GA2874-9pTldWuhBndy/B6EtB590w@public.gmane.org>

On 2013/4/17 1:10, Tejun Heo wrote:
> Hello, Li.
> 
> On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 07:17:17PM +0800, Li Zefan wrote:
> ...
>>> hot-unplug).  It currently transfers all its tasks to the nearest
>>> ancestor with executing resources, which is an irreversible process
>>> which would affect all other co-mounted controllers.  We probably want
>>> it to just take on the masks of the ancestor until its own executing
>>> resources become online again, and the new behavior should be gated
>>> behind a switch (Li, can you please look into this?).
>>>
>>
>> Sure, I'll be working on sane hierarchy behavior for cpuset.
> 
> Great, it'd be great if you can share how it's gonna be done once the
> basic design gets settled before full implementation.
> 

The basic idea is, when a cpuset becomes empty due to hotplug, we don't
move the tasks in it, but instead we update tasks' cpumask/nodemask using
the nearest non-empty acestor cpuset's cpus_allowed and mems_allowed.

- then it's allowed to move those tasks from the empty cpuset to another
cpuset

- when this acestor cpuset's cpumask/nodemask is changed (either by writing
cpuset.cpus/mems or hotplug), not only the tasks in it but also tasks in
the empty cpuset will be updated.

- it's allowed to move a task to an empty cpuset, and the task's cpumask/nodemask
will be updated according to the nearst non-empty acestor, no matter if this
empty cpuset is exclusive or not.

- if a previously offlined cpu becomes online again, the emtpy cpuset won't
get this cpu resource automatically, which is the current behavior.

How does this sound?

WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Li Zefan <lizefan@huawei.com>
To: Tejun Heo <tj@kernel.org>
Cc: <containers@lists.linux-foundation.org>,
	<cgroups@vger.kernel.org>, <bsingharora@gmail.com>,
	<dhaval.giani@gmail.com>, Kay Sievers <kay.sievers@vrfy.org>,
	<jpoimboe@redhat.com>, <berrange@redhat.com>,
	<lpoetter@redhat.com>, <workman-devel@redhat.com>,
	<linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: cgroup: status-quo and userland efforts
Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2013 09:29:32 +0800	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <516DFAFC.1030101@huawei.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20130416171056.GA2874@mtj.dyndns.org>

On 2013/4/17 1:10, Tejun Heo wrote:
> Hello, Li.
> 
> On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 07:17:17PM +0800, Li Zefan wrote:
> ...
>>> hot-unplug).  It currently transfers all its tasks to the nearest
>>> ancestor with executing resources, which is an irreversible process
>>> which would affect all other co-mounted controllers.  We probably want
>>> it to just take on the masks of the ancestor until its own executing
>>> resources become online again, and the new behavior should be gated
>>> behind a switch (Li, can you please look into this?).
>>>
>>
>> Sure, I'll be working on sane hierarchy behavior for cpuset.
> 
> Great, it'd be great if you can share how it's gonna be done once the
> basic design gets settled before full implementation.
> 

The basic idea is, when a cpuset becomes empty due to hotplug, we don't
move the tasks in it, but instead we update tasks' cpumask/nodemask using
the nearest non-empty acestor cpuset's cpus_allowed and mems_allowed.

- then it's allowed to move those tasks from the empty cpuset to another
cpuset

- when this acestor cpuset's cpumask/nodemask is changed (either by writing
cpuset.cpus/mems or hotplug), not only the tasks in it but also tasks in
the empty cpuset will be updated.

- it's allowed to move a task to an empty cpuset, and the task's cpumask/nodemask
will be updated according to the nearst non-empty acestor, no matter if this
empty cpuset is exclusive or not.

- if a previously offlined cpu becomes online again, the emtpy cpuset won't
get this cpu resource automatically, which is the current behavior.

How does this sound?


  parent reply	other threads:[~2013-04-17  1:29 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 205+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2013-04-06  1:21 cgroup: status-quo and userland efforts Tejun Heo
2013-04-06  1:21 ` Tejun Heo
     [not found] ` <20130406012159.GA17159-9pTldWuhBndy/B6EtB590w@public.gmane.org>
2013-04-08 13:46   ` Glauber Costa
2013-04-08 13:46     ` Glauber Costa
     [not found]     ` <5162CA21.4060108-bzQdu9zFT3WakBO8gow8eQ@public.gmane.org>
2013-04-08 18:00       ` [Workman-devel] " Vivek Goyal
2013-04-08 18:00         ` Vivek Goyal
2013-04-08 18:26       ` Tejun Heo
2013-04-08 18:26         ` Tejun Heo
2013-04-08 23:32       ` Lennart Poettering
2013-04-08 23:32         ` Lennart Poettering
     [not found]         ` <51635371.7070104-H+wXaHxf7aLQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
2013-04-09  7:37           ` Glauber Costa
2013-04-09  7:37           ` Glauber Costa
2013-04-09  7:37             ` Glauber Costa
2013-04-09 19:11           ` Tejun Heo
2013-04-09 19:11             ` Tejun Heo
2013-04-08 23:32       ` Lennart Poettering
2013-04-08 17:59   ` [Workman-devel] " Vivek Goyal
2013-04-08 17:59     ` Vivek Goyal
     [not found]     ` <20130408175925.GE28292-H+wXaHxf7aLQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
2013-04-08 18:16       ` Tejun Heo
2013-04-08 18:16         ` Tejun Heo
     [not found]         ` <20130408181607.GI3021-Gd/HAXX7CRxy/B6EtB590w@public.gmane.org>
2013-04-08 18:49           ` Tejun Heo
2013-04-08 18:49             ` Tejun Heo
2013-04-08 19:11           ` Vivek Goyal
2013-04-08 19:11             ` Vivek Goyal
     [not found]             ` <20130408191105.GG28292-H+wXaHxf7aLQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
2013-04-08 19:20               ` Tejun Heo
2013-04-08 19:20                 ` Tejun Heo
     [not found]                 ` <20130408192024.GL3021-Gd/HAXX7CRxy/B6EtB590w@public.gmane.org>
2013-04-08 19:46                   ` Vivek Goyal
2013-04-08 19:46                     ` Vivek Goyal
     [not found]                     ` <20130408194630.GH28292-H+wXaHxf7aLQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
2013-04-08 20:02                       ` Tejun Heo
2013-04-08 20:02                       ` Tejun Heo
2013-04-08 20:02                         ` Tejun Heo
2013-04-09  9:50   ` Daniel P. Berrange
2013-04-09  9:50     ` Daniel P. Berrange
     [not found]     ` <20130409095024.GI25576-H+wXaHxf7aLQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
2013-04-09 19:38       ` Tejun Heo
2013-04-09 19:38         ` Tejun Heo
     [not found]         ` <20130409193851.GJ6186-9pTldWuhBndy/B6EtB590w@public.gmane.org>
2013-04-09 19:46           ` Tejun Heo
2013-04-09 19:46             ` Tejun Heo
     [not found]             ` <20130409194640.GK6186-9pTldWuhBndy/B6EtB590w@public.gmane.org>
2013-04-09 21:04               ` Serge Hallyn
2013-04-09 21:04                 ` Serge Hallyn
2013-04-09 21:11                 ` Tejun Heo
2013-04-09 21:11                   ` Tejun Heo
2013-04-09 21:11                 ` Tejun Heo
2013-04-16 11:17   ` Li Zefan
2013-04-16 11:17     ` Li Zefan
     [not found]     ` <516D333D.4040703-hv44wF8Li93QT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
2013-04-16 17:10       ` Tejun Heo
2013-04-16 17:10         ` Tejun Heo
     [not found]         ` <20130416171056.GA2874-9pTldWuhBndy/B6EtB590w@public.gmane.org>
2013-04-17  1:29           ` Li Zefan
2013-04-17  1:29           ` Li Zefan [this message]
2013-04-17  1:29             ` Li Zefan
2013-04-16 11:17   ` Li Zefan
2013-04-22 21:26   ` Tim Hockin
2013-04-22 21:26   ` Tim Hockin
2013-04-22 21:26     ` Tim Hockin
     [not found]     ` <CAAAKZwvh_R2Xz--bmSLiN33fsqKanOJMq_6+6hoFWFRx38O4gA-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
2013-04-22 21:41       ` Tejun Heo
2013-04-22 21:41         ` Tejun Heo
     [not found]         ` <20130422214159.GG12543-Gd/HAXX7CRxy/B6EtB590w@public.gmane.org>
2013-04-22 22:33           ` Tim Hockin
2013-04-22 22:33             ` Tim Hockin
     [not found]             ` <CAAAKZwuXJwwyj7KSqb7rZ+nrTwBWEaUCWfa7kWecTBnHL8koGw-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
2013-06-22 23:13               ` Tim Hockin
2013-06-22 23:13               ` Tim Hockin
2013-06-22 23:13                 ` Tim Hockin
     [not found]                 ` <CAAAKZwvP_7wBBYMmtFuiE2hZt=ByaLrnTyiR83CZr3OMip63Gg-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
2013-06-25  0:01                   ` Tejun Heo
2013-06-25  0:01                     ` Tejun Heo
     [not found]                     ` <20130625000118.GT1918-9pTldWuhBndy/B6EtB590w@public.gmane.org>
2013-06-25  4:07                       ` Tim Hockin
2013-06-25  4:07                       ` Tim Hockin
2013-06-25  4:07                         ` Tim Hockin
     [not found]                         ` <CAAAKZwt09k-qUwLCnMpAQeYJ-S0XtkjXe4=bJ-G_fcrkAqEzoA-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
2013-06-26 21:20                           ` Tejun Heo
2013-06-26 21:20                             ` Tejun Heo
     [not found]                             ` <20130626212047.GB4536-Gd/HAXX7CRxy/B6EtB590w@public.gmane.org>
2013-06-27  0:06                               ` Tim Hockin
2013-06-27  0:06                                 ` Tim Hockin
2013-06-26 23:14                                 ` David Lang
     [not found]                                 ` <CAAAKZws1qkSik4G4pRr7z+067Jp9-jHfpx9-euqbvmdHjoN_Zg-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
2013-06-26 23:14                                   ` David Lang
2013-06-27  1:04                                   ` Tejun Heo
2013-06-27  1:04                                     ` Tejun Heo
     [not found]                                     ` <20130627010427.GF4536-Gd/HAXX7CRxy/B6EtB590w@public.gmane.org>
2013-06-27  3:42                                       ` Tim Hockin
2013-06-27  3:42                                         ` Tim Hockin
     [not found]                                         ` <CAAAKZwsMT7FRccyVxSn77GR8+9JsSeqmDO6oOy7ycNCY7Desnw-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
2013-06-27 17:38                                           ` Tejun Heo
2013-06-27 17:38                                             ` Tejun Heo
     [not found]                                             ` <20130627173809.GB5599-9pTldWuhBndy/B6EtB590w@public.gmane.org>
2013-06-27 20:46                                               ` Tim Hockin
2013-06-27 20:46                                                 ` Tim Hockin
     [not found]                                                 ` <CAAAKZwvabGRsce43ymru7OBr0LX93DRnTVkzn-nhahTR6yMUZw-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
2013-06-27 21:04                                                   ` Tejun Heo
2013-06-27 21:04                                                     ` Tejun Heo
     [not found]                                                     ` <20130627210445.GA22860-9pTldWuhBndy/B6EtB590w@public.gmane.org>
2013-06-28 18:44                                                       ` Tim Hockin
2013-06-28 18:44                                                         ` Tim Hockin
     [not found]                                                         ` <CAAAKZwtOnpATCmRcOpsXaLZ8sQDs2Z=iZb8FrqG=bajNAOBnRg-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
2013-06-29 16:40                                                           ` Tejun Heo
2013-06-29 16:40                                                             ` Tejun Heo
2015-03-03 21:53                                                             ` Luke Leighton
2013-06-27 20:46                                               ` Tim Hockin
2015-03-03 21:38                                             ` Luke Leighton
2015-03-03 21:17                                     ` Luke Leighton
2015-03-04  5:08                                       ` David Lang
2015-03-04 11:27                                         ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2015-03-04 20:08                                           ` David Lang
2013-06-27  0:06                               ` Tim Hockin
2013-06-27  5:45                               ` Mike Galbraith
2013-06-27  5:45                                 ` Mike Galbraith
     [not found]                                 ` <1372311907.5871.78.camel-YqMYhexLQo31wTEvPJ5Q0F6hYfS7NtTn@public.gmane.org>
2013-06-27 13:22                                   ` Serge Hallyn
2013-06-27 13:22                                   ` Serge Hallyn
2013-06-27 13:22                                     ` Serge Hallyn
2013-06-27 15:29                                     ` Tim Hockin
2013-06-27 15:29                                       ` Tim Hockin
     [not found]                                       ` <CAAAKZwt9QdddFrEjvdBsi3sbQXScKyzY=vZpYXqTwjGUebH1Ag-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
2013-06-27 16:18                                         ` Serge Hallyn
2013-06-27 16:18                                         ` Serge Hallyn
2013-06-27 16:18                                           ` Serge Hallyn
2015-03-03 22:00                                           ` Luke Leighton
2013-06-27 15:29                                     ` Tim Hockin
2013-06-27 17:48                                     ` Tejun Heo
2013-06-27 17:48                                       ` Tejun Heo
     [not found]                                       ` <20130627174850.GC5599-9pTldWuhBndy/B6EtB590w@public.gmane.org>
2013-06-27 18:14                                         ` Serge Hallyn
2013-06-27 18:14                                         ` Serge Hallyn
2013-06-27 18:14                                           ` Serge Hallyn
2013-06-27 18:45                                           ` Tejun Heo
2013-06-27 18:45                                             ` Tejun Heo
     [not found]                                             ` <20130627184541.GA6400-9pTldWuhBndy/B6EtB590w@public.gmane.org>
2013-06-27 18:51                                               ` Serge Hallyn
2013-06-27 18:51                                                 ` Serge Hallyn
2013-06-27 18:52                                                 ` Tejun Heo
2013-06-27 18:52                                                 ` Tejun Heo
2013-06-27 18:52                                                   ` Tejun Heo
2013-06-27 18:51                                               ` Serge Hallyn
2013-06-27 20:52                                           ` Tim Hockin
2013-06-27 20:52                                             ` Tim Hockin
2015-03-03 22:08                                       ` Luke Leighton
2013-06-28  9:09                                     ` [Workman-devel] " Daniel P. Berrange
2013-06-28  9:09                                       ` Daniel P. Berrange
     [not found]                                       ` <20130628090910.GB2507-H+wXaHxf7aLQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
2013-06-28 15:53                                         ` Serge Hallyn
2013-06-28 15:53                                         ` Serge Hallyn
2013-06-28 15:53                                           ` Serge Hallyn
2013-06-28 18:58                                           ` Tim Hockin
2013-06-28 18:58                                             ` Tim Hockin
2015-03-03 22:20                                           ` Luke Leighton
2013-06-27 18:01                                   ` Tejun Heo
2013-06-27 18:01                                   ` Tejun Heo
2013-06-27 18:01                                     ` Tejun Heo
     [not found]                                     ` <20130627180143.GD5599-9pTldWuhBndy/B6EtB590w@public.gmane.org>
2013-06-28  3:46                                       ` Mike Galbraith
2013-06-28  3:46                                         ` Mike Galbraith
     [not found]                                         ` <1372391198.5989.110.camel-YqMYhexLQo31wTEvPJ5Q0F6hYfS7NtTn@public.gmane.org>
2013-06-28  4:09                                           ` Tejun Heo
2013-06-28  4:09                                           ` Tejun Heo
2013-06-28  4:09                                             ` Tejun Heo
     [not found]                                             ` <20130628040930.GC2500-Gd/HAXX7CRxy/B6EtB590w@public.gmane.org>
2013-06-28  4:49                                               ` Mike Galbraith
2013-06-28  4:49                                               ` Mike Galbraith
2013-06-28  4:49                                                 ` Mike Galbraith
     [not found]                                                 ` <1372394950.5989.128.camel-YqMYhexLQo31wTEvPJ5Q0F6hYfS7NtTn@public.gmane.org>
2013-06-28  5:01                                                   ` Tejun Heo
2013-06-28  5:01                                                   ` Tejun Heo
2013-06-28  5:01                                                     ` Tejun Heo
     [not found]                                                     ` <20130628050138.GD2500-Gd/HAXX7CRxy/B6EtB590w@public.gmane.org>
2013-06-28  6:00                                                       ` Mike Galbraith
2013-06-28  6:00                                                         ` Mike Galbraith
2013-06-28 15:05                                                       ` Michal Hocko
2013-06-28 15:05                                                       ` Michal Hocko
2013-06-28 15:05                                                         ` Michal Hocko
     [not found]                                                         ` <20130628150513.GD5125-2MMpYkNvuYDjFM9bn6wA6Q@public.gmane.org>
2013-06-28 18:01                                                           ` [Workman-devel] " Vivek Goyal
2013-06-28 18:01                                                             ` Vivek Goyal
     [not found]                                                             ` <20130628180155.GD16483-H+wXaHxf7aLQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
2013-06-28 19:59                                                               ` Daniel P. Berrange
2013-06-28 19:59                                                                 ` Daniel P. Berrange
     [not found]                                                                 ` <20130628195917.GG2507-H+wXaHxf7aLQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
2013-06-28 22:40                                                                   ` Serge Hallyn
2013-06-28 22:40                                                                     ` Serge Hallyn
2013-06-28 22:43                                                                     ` Tejun Heo
2013-06-28 22:43                                                                       ` Tejun Heo
2013-06-28 22:43                                                                     ` Tejun Heo
2013-06-28 22:40                                                                   ` Serge Hallyn
2013-06-30 18:38                                                               ` Michal Hocko
2013-06-30 18:38                                                                 ` Michal Hocko
     [not found]                                                                 ` <20130630183838.GB23731-2MMpYkNvuYDjFM9bn6wA6Q@public.gmane.org>
2013-07-15 18:49                                                                   ` Vivek Goyal
2013-07-15 18:49                                                                     ` Vivek Goyal
     [not found]                                                                     ` <20130715184940.GG27338-H+wXaHxf7aLQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
2013-07-23 14:48                                                                       ` Michal Hocko
2013-07-23 14:48                                                                       ` Michal Hocko
2013-07-23 14:48                                                                         ` Michal Hocko
2013-06-30 18:38                                                               ` Michal Hocko
2013-06-28 18:30                                                           ` Tejun Heo
2013-06-28 18:30                                                             ` Tejun Heo
2013-06-28 18:53                                                           ` Tim Hockin
2013-06-28 18:53                                                             ` Tim Hockin
     [not found]                                                             ` <CAAAKZwtqYe-c0bfkgHFbzsOKVHifjTwkqcpci=uS1JwqS9TJHQ-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
2013-06-28 19:01                                                               ` Vrijendra (वृजेन्द्र) Gokhale
2013-06-29  1:48                                                               ` Lennart Poettering
2013-06-29  1:48                                                                 ` Lennart Poettering
     [not found]                                                                 ` <51CE3CE0.9010506-H+wXaHxf7aLQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
2013-06-29  3:05                                                                   ` Tim Hockin
2013-06-29  3:05                                                                     ` Tim Hockin
     [not found]                                                                     ` <CAAAKZwuzhSzPj99HZW=KD4emGXZbcsjsUu=+TCpafhs9MKD2JA-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
2013-06-30 19:39                                                                       ` Lennart Poettering
2013-06-30 19:39                                                                         ` Lennart Poettering
     [not found]                                                                         ` <51D08976.6040005-H+wXaHxf7aLQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
2013-07-01  6:06                                                                           ` Tim Hockin
2013-07-01  6:06                                                                             ` Tim Hockin
2013-07-02 23:57                                                                           ` Thomas Gleixner
2013-07-02 23:57                                                                           ` Thomas Gleixner
2013-07-02 23:57                                                                             ` Thomas Gleixner
     [not found]                                                                             ` <alpine.DEB.2.02.1307030021480.4013-3cz04HxQygjZikZi3RtOZ1XZhhPuCNm+@public.gmane.org>
2013-07-03  0:44                                                                               ` Kay Sievers
2013-07-03  0:44                                                                               ` Kay Sievers
2013-07-03  0:44                                                                                 ` Kay Sievers
     [not found]                                                                                 ` <CAPXgP12AyogbFX_hPPmQD5GFG0-+_crsnHF3epDZSRds3-WNtQ-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
2013-07-03  7:37                                                                                   ` Borislav Petkov
2013-07-03  7:37                                                                                     ` Borislav Petkov
2013-07-03  7:37                                                                                   ` Borislav Petkov
2013-07-03  9:30                                                                                   ` Thomas Gleixner
2013-07-03  9:30                                                                                     ` Thomas Gleixner
2013-07-03  9:30                                                                                   ` Thomas Gleixner
2013-07-09 23:12                                                                                   ` Jiri Kosina
2013-07-09 23:12                                                                                     ` Jiri Kosina
2013-07-09 23:12                                                                                   ` Jiri Kosina
2013-07-03 17:11                                                                               ` James Bottomley
2013-07-03 17:11                                                                               ` James Bottomley
2013-07-03 17:11                                                                                 ` James Bottomley
2013-06-28  3:46                                       ` Mike Galbraith
2013-06-28 19:18                                       ` Andy Lutomirski
2013-06-28 19:18                                         ` Andy Lutomirski
     [not found]                                         ` <51CDE18E.8080009-kltTT9wpgjJwATOyAt5JVQ@public.gmane.org>
2013-06-28 19:36                                           ` Serge Hallyn
2013-06-28 19:36                                             ` Serge Hallyn
2013-06-28 19:36                                           ` Serge Hallyn
2013-06-27  5:45                               ` Mike Galbraith
2013-04-22 22:33           ` Tim Hockin

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