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From: arjan@linux.intel.com (Arjan van de Ven)
To: linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org
Subject: [RFC PATCH v4 00/14] sched: packing small tasks
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2013 08:46:21 -0700	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <517AA14D.7060202@linux.intel.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CAKfTPtCwdw1mYpWRFbPo9zT=9vFANpJyubh1eX-0vJLqrqizgA@mail.gmail.com>

>>
>>
>> so I got to ask the hard question; what percentage of system level (not just
>> cpu level)
>> power consumption gain can you measure (pick your favorite workload)...
>>
>
> I haven't system level figures for my patches but only for the cpu
> subsystem. If we use the MP3 results in the back of my mail, they show
> an improvement of 37 % (113/178) for the CPU subsystem of the
> platform. If we assume that the CPU subsystem contributes 25% of an
> embedded system power consumption (this can vary across platform
> depending of the use of HW accelerator but it should be a almost fair
> percentage), the patch can impact the power consumption on up to 9%.
>

sadly the math tends to not work quite that easy;
memory takes significantly more power when the system is not idle than when it is idle for example. [*]
so while reducing cpu power by making it run a bit longer (at lower frequency or
slower core or whatever) is a pure win if you only look at the cpu, but it may
(or may not) be a loss when looking at a whole system level.

I've learned the hard way that you cannot just look at the cpu numbers; you must look
at the whole-system power when playing with such tradeoffs.

That does not mean that your patch is not useful; it very well can be, but
without having looked at whole-system power that's a very dangerous conclusion to make.
So.. if you get a chance, I'd love to see data on a whole-system level... even for just one workload
and one system
(playing mp3 sounds like a quite reasonable workload for such things indeed)


[*] I assume that on your ARM systems, memory goes into self refresh during system idle just as it does on x86

WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Arjan van de Ven <arjan@linux.intel.com>
To: Vincent Guittot <vincent.guittot@linaro.org>
Cc: linux-kernel <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	LAK <linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org>,
	"linaro-kernel@lists.linaro.org" <linaro-kernel@lists.linaro.org>,
	Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org>,
	Ingo Molnar <mingo@kernel.org>,
	Russell King - ARM Linux <linux@arm.linux.org.uk>,
	Paul Turner <pjt@google.com>, Santosh <santosh.shilimkar@ti.com>,
	Morten Rasmussen <Morten.Rasmussen@arm.com>,
	Chander Kashyap <chander.kashyap@linaro.org>,
	"cmetcalf@tilera.com" <cmetcalf@tilera.com>,
	"tony.luck@intel.com" <tony.luck@intel.com>,
	Alex Shi <alex.shi@intel.com>,
	Preeti U Murthy <preeti@linux.vnet.ibm.com>,
	Paul McKenney <paulmck@linux.vnet.ibm.com>,
	Thomas Gleixner <tglx@linutronix.de>,
	Len Brown <len.brown@intel.com>,
	Amit Kucheria <amit.kucheria@linaro.org>,
	Jonathan Corbet <corbet@lwn.net>,
	Lukasz Majewski <l.majewski@samsung.com>
Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH v4 00/14] sched: packing small tasks
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2013 08:46:21 -0700	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <517AA14D.7060202@linux.intel.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CAKfTPtCwdw1mYpWRFbPo9zT=9vFANpJyubh1eX-0vJLqrqizgA@mail.gmail.com>

>>
>>
>> so I got to ask the hard question; what percentage of system level (not just
>> cpu level)
>> power consumption gain can you measure (pick your favorite workload)...
>>
>
> I haven't system level figures for my patches but only for the cpu
> subsystem. If we use the MP3 results in the back of my mail, they show
> an improvement of 37 % (113/178) for the CPU subsystem of the
> platform. If we assume that the CPU subsystem contributes 25% of an
> embedded system power consumption (this can vary across platform
> depending of the use of HW accelerator but it should be a almost fair
> percentage), the patch can impact the power consumption on up to 9%.
>

sadly the math tends to not work quite that easy;
memory takes significantly more power when the system is not idle than when it is idle for example. [*]
so while reducing cpu power by making it run a bit longer (at lower frequency or
slower core or whatever) is a pure win if you only look at the cpu, but it may
(or may not) be a loss when looking at a whole system level.

I've learned the hard way that you cannot just look at the cpu numbers; you must look
at the whole-system power when playing with such tradeoffs.

That does not mean that your patch is not useful; it very well can be, but
without having looked at whole-system power that's a very dangerous conclusion to make.
So.. if you get a chance, I'd love to see data on a whole-system level... even for just one workload
and one system
(playing mp3 sounds like a quite reasonable workload for such things indeed)


[*] I assume that on your ARM systems, memory goes into self refresh during system idle just as it does on x86


  reply	other threads:[~2013-04-26 15:46 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 76+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2013-04-25 17:23 [RFC PATCH v4 00/14] sched: packing small tasks Vincent Guittot
2013-04-25 17:23 ` Vincent Guittot
2013-04-25 17:23 ` [PATCH 01/14] Revert "sched: Introduce temporary FAIR_GROUP_SCHED dependency for load-tracking" Vincent Guittot
2013-04-25 17:23   ` Vincent Guittot
2013-04-25 17:23 ` [PATCH 02/14] sched: add a new SD_SHARE_POWERDOMAIN flag for sched_domain Vincent Guittot
2013-04-25 17:23   ` Vincent Guittot
2013-04-25 17:23 ` [PATCH 03/14] sched: pack small tasks Vincent Guittot
2013-04-25 17:23   ` Vincent Guittot
2013-04-26 12:30   ` Peter Zijlstra
2013-04-26 12:30     ` Peter Zijlstra
2013-04-26 13:16     ` Vincent Guittot
2013-04-26 13:16       ` Vincent Guittot
2013-04-26 12:38   ` Peter Zijlstra
2013-04-26 12:38     ` Peter Zijlstra
2013-04-26 13:38     ` Vincent Guittot
2013-04-26 13:38       ` Vincent Guittot
2013-04-25 17:23 ` [PATCH 04/14] sched: pack the idle load balance Vincent Guittot
2013-04-25 17:23   ` Vincent Guittot
2013-04-26 12:49   ` Peter Zijlstra
2013-04-26 12:49     ` Peter Zijlstra
2013-04-26 13:47     ` Vincent Guittot
2013-04-26 13:47       ` Vincent Guittot
2013-04-25 17:23 ` [PATCH 05/14] ARM: sched: clear SD_SHARE_POWERDOMAIN Vincent Guittot
2013-04-25 17:23   ` Vincent Guittot
2013-04-25 17:23 ` [PATCH 06/14] sched: add a knob to choose the packing level Vincent Guittot
2013-04-25 17:23   ` Vincent Guittot
2013-04-25 17:23 ` [PATCH 07/14] sched: agressively pack at wake/fork/exec Vincent Guittot
2013-04-25 17:23   ` Vincent Guittot
2013-04-26 13:08   ` Peter Zijlstra
2013-04-26 13:08     ` Peter Zijlstra
2013-04-26 14:23     ` Vincent Guittot
2013-04-26 14:23       ` Vincent Guittot
2013-04-25 17:23 ` [PATCH 08/14] sched: trig ILB on an idle buddy Vincent Guittot
2013-04-25 17:23   ` Vincent Guittot
2013-04-26 13:15   ` Peter Zijlstra
2013-04-26 13:15     ` Peter Zijlstra
2013-04-26 14:52     ` Vincent Guittot
2013-04-26 14:52       ` Vincent Guittot
2013-04-25 17:23 ` [PATCH 09/14] sched: evaluate the activity level of the system Vincent Guittot
2013-04-25 17:23   ` Vincent Guittot
2013-05-22 16:50   ` Morten Rasmussen
2013-05-23  8:11     ` Vincent Guittot
2013-04-25 17:23 ` [PATCH 10/14] sched: update the buddy CPU Vincent Guittot
2013-04-25 17:23   ` Vincent Guittot
2013-04-28  8:20   ` Francesco Lavra
2013-04-28  8:20     ` Francesco Lavra
2013-04-29  7:32     ` Vincent Guittot
2013-04-29  7:32       ` Vincent Guittot
2013-04-25 17:23 ` [PATCH 11/14] sched: filter task pull request Vincent Guittot
2013-04-25 17:23   ` Vincent Guittot
2013-04-26 10:00   ` Vincent Guittot
2013-04-26 10:00     ` Vincent Guittot
2013-05-22 15:56     ` Morten Rasmussen
2013-05-22 15:56       ` Morten Rasmussen
2013-05-22 16:03       ` Vincent Guittot
2013-05-22 16:03         ` Vincent Guittot
2013-04-25 17:23 ` [PATCH 12/14] sched: create a new field with available capacity Vincent Guittot
2013-04-25 17:23   ` Vincent Guittot
2013-04-25 17:23 ` [PATCH 13/14] sched: update the cpu_power Vincent Guittot
2013-04-25 17:23   ` Vincent Guittot
2013-05-22 15:46   ` Morten Rasmussen
2013-05-22 15:58     ` Vincent Guittot
2013-04-25 17:23 ` [PATCH 14/14] sched: force migration on buddy CPU Vincent Guittot
2013-04-25 17:23   ` Vincent Guittot
2013-04-26 12:08 ` [RFC PATCH v4 00/14] sched: packing small tasks Vincent Guittot
2013-04-26 12:08   ` Vincent Guittot
2013-04-26 15:00 ` Arjan van de Ven
2013-04-26 15:00   ` Arjan van de Ven
2013-04-26 15:40   ` Vincent Guittot
2013-04-26 15:40     ` Vincent Guittot
2013-04-26 15:46     ` Arjan van de Ven [this message]
2013-04-26 15:46       ` Arjan van de Ven
2013-04-26 15:56       ` Vincent Guittot
2013-04-26 15:56         ` Vincent Guittot
2013-05-02  9:12       ` Vincent Guittot
2013-05-02  9:12         ` Vincent Guittot

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