Issues using meta-freescale i.MX6 vs LTIB ?

Issues using meta-freescale i.MX6 vs LTIB ?

[Alex J Lennon]

Hi,

I'm trying to qualify a decision to use Yocto / meta-freescale for an 
upcoming
i.MX6 board variant (based on the Sabre reference) instead of using the
officially supported release based on LTIB.

My preference is strongly for the Yocto/OpenEmbedded build environment,
for various reasons, but I understand that the Freescale i.MX6 BSP is not
officially supported at this time.

Knowing the experience and activity levels of the people working via these
lists, I suspect that meta-freescale is by now significantly ahead of 
the current
release of LTIB.

That said I wonder if there are any known issues with using meta-freescale
which might give me pause, and cause me to use LTIB at this time?

Thanks for your advice,

Alex Lennon
Director
Dynamic Devices Ltd

Re: Issues using meta-freescale i.MX6 vs LTIB ?

[Trevor Woerner]

Hi Alex,

On 2 October 2013 09:12, Alex J Lennon <ajlennon@dynamicdevices.co.uk> wrote:
> I'm trying to qualify a decision to use Yocto / meta-freescale for an
> upcoming
> i.MX6 board variant (based on the Sabre reference) instead of using the
> officially supported release based on LTIB.

In my opinion, the "right" decision will depend on the quality and
size of your team. Are they "interested" enough in their work to go
off and make OE/Yocto work? Are they committed enough to stray from
the provided tools? Do they have the requisite GNU/Linux experience to
know how to figure things out and investigate issues when things don't
work as expected? If your team is big enough, maybe some of them could
work on the LTIB path while a smaller group focuses on investigating
OE/Yocto?

It seems as though you are facing a classic tradeoff between
short-term goals or long-term support. You can probably get to market
faster using LTIB, but what if this is a successful product and two
years from now you switch to a new board, one that isn't supported
under LTIB?

It would seem as though OE/Yocto's popularity (and the scope of what
it can do) is increasing every day. The chances that you can get it to
do what you want are good, and the chances that it will support future
boards is even better.

NOTE: I have no idea what freescale's future plans for LTIB are.

PS: the original email asks for opinions and in this email I have
provided my own personal opinion, which has been known to not always
be 100% aligned with the real world nor the same as the opinions of
others :-)

Re: Issues using meta-freescale i.MX6 vs LTIB ?

[Alex J Lennon]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 3982 bytes --]


On 02/10/2013 14:34, Trevor Woerner wrote:
> Hi Alex,
>
> On 2 October 2013 09:12, Alex J Lennon <ajlennon@dynamicdevices.co.uk> wrote:
>> I'm trying to qualify a decision to use Yocto / meta-freescale for an
>> upcoming
>> i.MX6 board variant (based on the Sabre reference) instead of using the
>> officially supported release based on LTIB.
> In my opinion, the "right" decision will depend on the quality and
> size of your team. Are they "interested" enough in their work to go
> off and make OE/Yocto work? Are they committed enough to stray from
> the provided tools? Do they have the requisite GNU/Linux experience to
> know how to figure things out and investigate issues when things don't
> work as expected? If your team is big enough, maybe some of them could
> work on the LTIB path while a smaller group focuses on investigating
> OE/Yocto?

Thanks for your opinion Trevor. The team at present is just me :)

I've used LTIB for PowerPC devices that are currently in the field, and 
also on i.MX53
based boards. I've also used OpenEmbedded Legacy (and more recently 
Yocto) for many
years on a range of platforms from x86-based/RPi/i.MX53 and so forth.

So I'm fairly cognizant of the issues with installation, configuration, 
tools, image creation
with both. OpenEmbedded has a (much) steeper learning curve imho but is 
more reliable
and has much more support for a good eco-system of recipes. Very helpful 
when the client
wants "XYZ" adding in.

I guess what I'm really asking is, what are the drawbacks and 
limitations (just just bugs per-se)
with using the current under-development i.MX6 OpenEmbedded BSP vs the 
LTIB BSP

Maybe to put it another way, functionally is there a roadmap for where 
the i.MX6 BSP is at
and what isn't yet working or supported. Presumably there are things 
that are not working
or supported or FSL would be offically supporting at this time... :)

> It seems as though you are facing a classic tradeoff between
> short-term goals or long-term support. You can probably get to market
> faster using LTIB, but what if this is a successful product and two
> years from now you switch to a new board, one that isn't supported
> under LTIB?
>
> It would seem as though OE/Yocto's popularity (and the scope of what
> it can do) is increasing every day. The chances that you can get it to
> do what you want are good, and the chances that it will support future
> boards is even better.
>
> NOTE: I have no idea what freescale's future plans for LTIB are.

As Diaiane mentions elsewhere FSL are moving to OE but I wasn't sure if 
that was
public knowledge yet :)

> PS: the original email asks for opinions and in this email I have
> provided my own personal opinion, which has been known to not always
> be 100% aligned with the real world nor the same as the opinions of
> others :-)

Many thanks!

-- 

Dynamic Devices Ltd <http://www.dynamicdevices.co.uk/>

Alex J Lennon / Director
1 Queensway, Liverpool L22 4RA

mobile: +44 (0)7956 668178

Linkedin <http://www.linkedin.com/in/alexjlennon> Skype 
<skype:alexjlennon?add>

This e-mail message may contain confidential or legally privileged 
information and is intended only for the use of the intended 
recipient(s). Any unauthorized disclosure, dissemination, distribution, 
copying or the taking of any action in reliance on the information 
herein is prohibited. E-mails are not secure and cannot be guaranteed to 
be error free as they can be intercepted, amended, or contain viruses. 
Anyone who communicates with us by e-mail is deemed to have accepted 
these risks. Company Name is not responsible for errors or omissions in 
this message and denies any responsibility for any damage arising from 
the use of e-mail. Any opinion and other statement contained in this 
message and any attachment are solely those of the author and do not 
necessarily represent those of the company.


[-- Attachment #2.1: Type: text/html, Size: 6845 bytes --]

[-- Attachment #2.2: ddlogo-4.png --]
[-- Type: image/png, Size: 3997 bytes --]

[-- Attachment #2.3: linkedin.png --]
[-- Type: image/png, Size: 631 bytes --]

[-- Attachment #2.4: skype.png --]
[-- Type: image/png, Size: 800 bytes --]

Re: Issues using meta-freescale i.MX6 vs LTIB ?

[Daiane Angolini]

On 10/02/2013 10:12 AM, Alex J Lennon wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I'm trying to qualify a decision to use Yocto / meta-freescale for an
> upcoming
> i.MX6 board variant (based on the Sabre reference) instead of using the
> officially supported release based on LTIB.
>
> My preference is strongly for the Yocto/OpenEmbedded build environment,
> for various reasons, but I understand that the Freescale i.MX6 BSP is not
> officially supported at this time.
>
> Knowing the experience and activity levels of the people working via these
> lists, I suspect that meta-freescale is by now significantly ahead of
> the current
> release of LTIB.
>
> That said I wonder if there are any known issues with using meta-freescale
> which might give me pause, and cause me to use LTIB at this time?

You can see all current known issues here
https://bugzilla.yoctoproject.org/buglist.cgi?quicksearch=meta-fsl-arm&list_id=105732

As you may know, the last LTIB release from Freescale was 3.0.35_4.1.0.

And, as already said in ML, next release 3.10.9_1.0.0 will be Yocto

;-)


>
> Thanks for your advice,
>
> Alex Lennon
> Director
> Dynamic Devices Ltd
>
> _______________________________________________
> meta-freescale mailing list
> meta-freescale@yoctoproject.org
> https://lists.yoctoproject.org/listinfo/meta-freescale
>


-- 
Daiane

Re: Issues using meta-freescale i.MX6 vs LTIB ?

[Alex J Lennon]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 3119 bytes --]


On 02/10/2013 14:37, Daiane Angolini wrote:
> On 10/02/2013 10:12 AM, Alex J Lennon wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I'm trying to qualify a decision to use Yocto / meta-freescale for an
>> upcoming
>> i.MX6 board variant (based on the Sabre reference) instead of using the
>> officially supported release based on LTIB.
>>
>> My preference is strongly for the Yocto/OpenEmbedded build environment,
>> for various reasons, but I understand that the Freescale i.MX6 BSP is 
>> not
>> officially supported at this time.
>>
>> Knowing the experience and activity levels of the people working via 
>> these
>> lists, I suspect that meta-freescale is by now significantly ahead of
>> the current
>> release of LTIB.
>>
>> That said I wonder if there are any known issues with using 
>> meta-freescale
>> which might give me pause, and cause me to use LTIB at this time?
>
> You can see all current known issues here
> https://bugzilla.yoctoproject.org/buglist.cgi?quicksearch=meta-fsl-arm&list_id=105732 
>
>
> As you may know, the last LTIB release from Freescale was 3.0.35_4.1.0.
>

Thanks Daiane,

I guess what I'm really asking is, what are the drawbacks and 
limitations (just just bugs per-se)
with using the current under-development i.MX6 OpenEmbedded BSP vs the 
released LTIB BSP

Maybe to put it another way, functionally is there a roadmap for where 
the i.MX6 BSP is at
and what isn't yet working or supported. Presumably there are things 
that are not working
or supported or FSL would be offically supporting at this time...?

> And, as already said in ML, next release 3.10.9_1.0.0 will be Yocto
>

Apparently so :) I just wasn't sure whether I could mention that yet, 
but as you already have... ;)

> ;-)
>
>
>>
>> Thanks for your advice,
>>
>> Alex Lennon
>> Director
>> Dynamic Devices Ltd
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> meta-freescale mailing list
>> meta-freescale@yoctoproject.org
>> https://lists.yoctoproject.org/listinfo/meta-freescale
>>
>
>

-- 

Dynamic Devices Ltd <http://www.dynamicdevices.co.uk/>

Alex J Lennon / Director
1 Queensway, Liverpool L22 4RA

mobile: +44 (0)7956 668178

Linkedin <http://www.linkedin.com/in/alexjlennon> Skype 
<skype:alexjlennon?add>

This e-mail message may contain confidential or legally privileged 
information and is intended only for the use of the intended 
recipient(s). Any unauthorized disclosure, dissemination, distribution, 
copying or the taking of any action in reliance on the information 
herein is prohibited. E-mails are not secure and cannot be guaranteed to 
be error free as they can be intercepted, amended, or contain viruses. 
Anyone who communicates with us by e-mail is deemed to have accepted 
these risks. Company Name is not responsible for errors or omissions in 
this message and denies any responsibility for any damage arising from 
the use of e-mail. Any opinion and other statement contained in this 
message and any attachment are solely those of the author and do not 
necessarily represent those of the company.


[-- Attachment #2.1: Type: text/html, Size: 6648 bytes --]

[-- Attachment #2.2: ddlogo-4.png --]
[-- Type: image/png, Size: 3997 bytes --]

[-- Attachment #2.3: linkedin.png --]
[-- Type: image/png, Size: 631 bytes --]

[-- Attachment #2.4: skype.png --]
[-- Type: image/png, Size: 800 bytes --]

Re: Issues using meta-freescale i.MX6 vs LTIB ?

[Daiane Angolini]

On 10/02/2013 11:02 AM, Alex J Lennon wrote:
>
> On 02/10/2013 14:37, Daiane Angolini wrote:
>> On 10/02/2013 10:12 AM, Alex J Lennon wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I'm trying to qualify a decision to use Yocto / meta-freescale for an
>>> upcoming
>>> i.MX6 board variant (based on the Sabre reference) instead of using the
>>> officially supported release based on LTIB.
>>>
>>> My preference is strongly for the Yocto/OpenEmbedded build environment,
>>> for various reasons, but I understand that the Freescale i.MX6 BSP is
>>> not
>>> officially supported at this time.
>>>
>>> Knowing the experience and activity levels of the people working via
>>> these
>>> lists, I suspect that meta-freescale is by now significantly ahead of
>>> the current
>>> release of LTIB.
>>>
>>> That said I wonder if there are any known issues with using
>>> meta-freescale
>>> which might give me pause, and cause me to use LTIB at this time?
>>
>> You can see all current known issues here
>> https://bugzilla.yoctoproject.org/buglist.cgi?quicksearch=meta-fsl-arm&list_id=105732
>>
>>
>> As you may know, the last LTIB release from Freescale was 3.0.35_4.1.0.
>>
>
> Thanks Daiane,
>
> I guess what I'm really asking is, what are the drawbacks and
> limitations (just just bugs per-se)
> with using the current under-development i.MX6 OpenEmbedded BSP vs the
> released LTIB BSP
>
> Maybe to put it another way, functionally is there a roadmap for where
> the i.MX6 BSP is at
> and what isn't yet working or supported. Presumably there are things
> that are not working
> or supported or FSL would be offically supporting at this time...?

I don't like to leave non replied questions along my way. Although, this 
is the most difficult kind of question to answer.

I, personally, cannot promise you what Freescale will or will not 
officially support. I can say what I'm supposed to support. And, 
officially, I'm only supposed to support imx-community.

Although, I've been working a lot with meta-fsl-arm, and everything I 
can do internally to improve meta-fsl-arm technical support I've been doing.

I've been using only yocto since 2 years ago. Last time I installed a 
new Ubuntu on my machine I even tried to install LTIB.

I don't have any LTIB installed on my machine any more \o/

And, every time I need to reproduce a customer's issue, I use yocto to 
generate whatever I need. (but for Android)


The things that are not working and I would love to see working is;

* all user-space package independent on kernel headers
* MM support for linux mainline
* Wayland accelerated for imx6 (all other board by SW only)
* I know there are details on GPU support that is not perfect enough, 
but you must judge if it's needed or not for you.


For official support and roadmap, please contact you local Freescale 
representative.

For kernel feature list (linux-imx), please, consult linux reference 
manual from the proper release version.

Again, I cannot say "official" things to you. I'm not the official 
Freescale voice.

>
>> And, as already said in ML, next release 3.10.9_1.0.0 will be Yocto
>>
>
> Apparently so :) I just wasn't sure whether I could mention that yet,
> but as you already have... ;)

I saw this already public on imx-community

And I'm sorry not being able to make you feel more comfortable.

-- 
Daiane

Re: Issues using meta-freescale i.MX6 vs LTIB ?

[Alex J Lennon]

On 02/10/2013 15:38, Daiane Angolini wrote:
> On 10/02/2013 11:02 AM, Alex J Lennon wrote:
>>
>> On 02/10/2013 14:37, Daiane Angolini wrote:
>>> On 10/02/2013 10:12 AM, Alex J Lennon wrote:
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> I'm trying to qualify a decision to use Yocto / meta-freescale for an
>>>> upcoming
>>>> i.MX6 board variant (based on the Sabre reference) instead of using 
>>>> the
>>>> officially supported release based on LTIB.
>>>>
>>>> My preference is strongly for the Yocto/OpenEmbedded build 
>>>> environment,
>>>> for various reasons, but I understand that the Freescale i.MX6 BSP is
>>>> not
>>>> officially supported at this time.
>>>>
>>>> Knowing the experience and activity levels of the people working via
>>>> these
>>>> lists, I suspect that meta-freescale is by now significantly ahead of
>>>> the current
>>>> release of LTIB.
>>>>
>>>> That said I wonder if there are any known issues with using
>>>> meta-freescale
>>>> which might give me pause, and cause me to use LTIB at this time?
>>>
>>> You can see all current known issues here
>>> https://bugzilla.yoctoproject.org/buglist.cgi?quicksearch=meta-fsl-arm&list_id=105732 
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> As you may know, the last LTIB release from Freescale was 3.0.35_4.1.0.
>>>
>>
>> Thanks Daiane,
>>
>> I guess what I'm really asking is, what are the drawbacks and
>> limitations (just just bugs per-se)
>> with using the current under-development i.MX6 OpenEmbedded BSP vs the
>> released LTIB BSP
>>
>> Maybe to put it another way, functionally is there a roadmap for where
>> the i.MX6 BSP is at
>> and what isn't yet working or supported. Presumably there are things
>> that are not working
>> or supported or FSL would be offically supporting at this time...?
>
> I don't like to leave non replied questions along my way. Although, 
> this is the most difficult kind of question to answer.
>
> I, personally, cannot promise you what Freescale will or will not 
> officially support. I can say what I'm supposed to support. And, 
> officially, I'm only supposed to support imx-community.
>
> Although, I've been working a lot with meta-fsl-arm, and everything I 
> can do internally to improve meta-fsl-arm technical support I've been 
> doing.
>
> I've been using only yocto since 2 years ago. Last time I installed a 
> new Ubuntu on my machine I even tried to install LTIB.
>
> I don't have any LTIB installed on my machine any more \o/
>
> And, every time I need to reproduce a customer's issue, I use yocto to 
> generate whatever I need. (but for Android)
>
>
> The things that are not working and I would love to see working is;
>
> * all user-space package independent on kernel headers
> * MM support for linux mainline
> * Wayland accelerated for imx6 (all other board by SW only)
> * I know there are details on GPU support that is not perfect enough, 
> but you must judge if it's needed or not for you.
>
>
> For official support and roadmap, please contact you local Freescale 
> representative.
>
> For kernel feature list (linux-imx), please, consult linux reference 
> manual from the proper release version.
>
> Again, I cannot say "official" things to you. I'm not the official 
> Freescale voice.
>
>>

Understood. But thanks for taking the time to respond. It's much 
appreciated, and I those are very helpful comments.

There's nothing there that would be a blocker for me for this board - 
it's destined to be a headless embedded gateway- although
from what I heard on Wayland from the Intel guys that's something I'd 
like to try if I ever manage to find the time :)

Cheers,

Alex

Re: Issues using meta-freescale i.MX6 vs LTIB ?

[Eric Nelson]

On 10/02/2013 06:37 AM, Daiane Angolini wrote:
>
 > <snip>
>
> As you may know, the last LTIB release from Freescale was 3.0.35_4.1.0.
>
> And, as already said in ML, next release 3.10.9_1.0.0 will be Yocto
>

So long, and thanks for all the... um... code?