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From: "Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)" <mtk.manpages@gmail.com>
To: Greg Troxel <gdt@ir.bbn.com>
Cc: mtk.manpages@gmail.com, Richard Hansen <rhansen@bbn.com>,
	Steven Whitehouse <swhiteho@redhat.com>,
	Christoph Hellwig <hch@infradead.org>,
	"linux-mm@kvack.org" <linux-mm@kvack.org>,
	lkml <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	Linux API <linux-api@vger.kernel.org>,
	Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org>
Subject: Re: [PATCH] mm: msync: require either MS_ASYNC or MS_SYNC
Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2014 09:11:19 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <533E5B17.8010804@gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <rmivbuqy3hr.fsf@fnord.ir.bbn.com>

Hi Greg,

On 04/03/2014 02:57 PM, Greg Troxel wrote:
> 
> "Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)" <mtk.manpages@gmail.com> writes:
> 
>> I think the only reasonable solution is to better document existing
>> behavior and what the programmer should do. With that in mind, I've
>> drafted the following text for the msync(2) man page:
>>
>>     NOTES
>>        According to POSIX, exactly one of MS_SYNC and MS_ASYNC  must  be
>>        specified  in  flags.   However,  Linux permits a call to msync()
>>        that specifies neither of these flags, with  semantics  that  are
>>        (currently)  equivalent  to  specifying  MS_ASYNC.   (Since Linux
>>        2.6.19, MS_ASYNC is in fact a no-op, since  the  kernel  properly
>>        tracks  dirty  pages  and  flushes them to storage as necessary.)
>>        Notwithstanding the Linux behavior, portable, future-proof appli‐
>>        cations  should  ensure  that they specify exactly one of MS_SYNC
>>        and MS_ASYNC in flags.
>>
>> Comments on this draft welcome.
> 
> I think it's a step backwards to document unspecified behavior.  If
> anything, the man page should make it clear that providing neither flag
> results in undefined behavior and will lead to failure on systems on
> than Linux.  While I can see the point of not changing the previous
> behavior to protect buggy code, there's no need to document it in the
> man page and further enshrine it.

The Linux behavior is what it is. For the reasons I mentioned already,
it's unlikely to change. And, when the man pages omit to explain what
Linux actually does, there will one day come a request to actually
document the behavior. So, I don't think it's quite enough to say the 
behavior is undefined. On the other hand, it does not hurt to further
expand the portability warning. I made the text now:

    NOTES
       According to POSIX, either MS_SYNC or MS_ASYNC must be  specified
       in  flags, and  indeed failure to include one of these flags will
       cause msync() to fail on some systems.  However, Linux permits  a
       call  to  msync()  that  specifies  neither  of these flags, with
       semantics that are (currently) equivalent to specifying MS_ASYNC.
       (Since  Linux 2.6.19, MS_ASYNC is in fact a no-op, since the ker‐
       nel properly tracks dirty pages and flushes them  to  storage  as
       necessary.)    Notwithstanding   the  Linux  behavior,  portable,
       future-proof applications should ensure that they specify  either
       MS_SYNC or MS_ASYNC in flags.




-- 
Michael Kerrisk
Linux man-pages maintainer; http://www.kernel.org/doc/man-pages/
Linux/UNIX System Programming Training: http://man7.org/training/

--
To unsubscribe, send a message with 'unsubscribe linux-mm' in
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WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: "Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)" <mtk.manpages@gmail.com>
To: Greg Troxel <gdt@ir.bbn.com>
Cc: mtk.manpages@gmail.com, Richard Hansen <rhansen@bbn.com>,
	Steven Whitehouse <swhiteho@redhat.com>,
	Christoph Hellwig <hch@infradead.org>,
	"linux-mm@kvack.org" <linux-mm@kvack.org>,
	lkml <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	Linux API <linux-api@vger.kernel.org>,
	Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org>
Subject: Re: [PATCH] mm: msync: require either MS_ASYNC or MS_SYNC
Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2014 09:11:19 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <533E5B17.8010804@gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <rmivbuqy3hr.fsf@fnord.ir.bbn.com>

Hi Greg,

On 04/03/2014 02:57 PM, Greg Troxel wrote:
> 
> "Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)" <mtk.manpages@gmail.com> writes:
> 
>> I think the only reasonable solution is to better document existing
>> behavior and what the programmer should do. With that in mind, I've
>> drafted the following text for the msync(2) man page:
>>
>>     NOTES
>>        According to POSIX, exactly one of MS_SYNC and MS_ASYNC  must  be
>>        specified  in  flags.   However,  Linux permits a call to msync()
>>        that specifies neither of these flags, with  semantics  that  are
>>        (currently)  equivalent  to  specifying  MS_ASYNC.   (Since Linux
>>        2.6.19, MS_ASYNC is in fact a no-op, since  the  kernel  properly
>>        tracks  dirty  pages  and  flushes them to storage as necessary.)
>>        Notwithstanding the Linux behavior, portable, future-proof applia??
>>        cations  should  ensure  that they specify exactly one of MS_SYNC
>>        and MS_ASYNC in flags.
>>
>> Comments on this draft welcome.
> 
> I think it's a step backwards to document unspecified behavior.  If
> anything, the man page should make it clear that providing neither flag
> results in undefined behavior and will lead to failure on systems on
> than Linux.  While I can see the point of not changing the previous
> behavior to protect buggy code, there's no need to document it in the
> man page and further enshrine it.

The Linux behavior is what it is. For the reasons I mentioned already,
it's unlikely to change. And, when the man pages omit to explain what
Linux actually does, there will one day come a request to actually
document the behavior. So, I don't think it's quite enough to say the 
behavior is undefined. On the other hand, it does not hurt to further
expand the portability warning. I made the text now:

    NOTES
       According to POSIX, either MS_SYNC or MS_ASYNC must be  specified
       in  flags, and  indeed failure to include one of these flags will
       cause msync() to fail on some systems.  However, Linux permits  a
       call  to  msync()  that  specifies  neither  of these flags, with
       semantics that are (currently) equivalent to specifying MS_ASYNC.
       (Since  Linux 2.6.19, MS_ASYNC is in fact a no-op, since the kera??
       nel properly tracks dirty pages and flushes them  to  storage  as
       necessary.)    Notwithstanding   the  Linux  behavior,  portable,
       future-proof applications should ensure that they specify  either
       MS_SYNC or MS_ASYNC in flags.




-- 
Michael Kerrisk
Linux man-pages maintainer; http://www.kernel.org/doc/man-pages/
Linux/UNIX System Programming Training: http://man7.org/training/

--
To unsubscribe, send a message with 'unsubscribe linux-mm' in
the body to majordomo@kvack.org.  For more info on Linux MM,
see: http://www.linux-mm.org/ .
Don't email: <a href=mailto:"dont@kvack.org"> email@kvack.org </a>

WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: "Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)" <mtk.manpages@gmail.com>
To: Greg Troxel <gdt@ir.bbn.com>
Cc: mtk.manpages@gmail.com, Richard Hansen <rhansen@bbn.com>,
	Steven Whitehouse <swhiteho@redhat.com>,
	Christoph Hellwig <hch@infradead.org>,
	"linux-mm@kvack.org" <linux-mm@kvack.org>,
	lkml <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	Linux API <linux-api@vger.kernel.org>,
	Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org>
Subject: Re: [PATCH] mm: msync: require either MS_ASYNC or MS_SYNC
Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2014 09:11:19 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <533E5B17.8010804@gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <rmivbuqy3hr.fsf@fnord.ir.bbn.com>

Hi Greg,

On 04/03/2014 02:57 PM, Greg Troxel wrote:
> 
> "Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)" <mtk.manpages@gmail.com> writes:
> 
>> I think the only reasonable solution is to better document existing
>> behavior and what the programmer should do. With that in mind, I've
>> drafted the following text for the msync(2) man page:
>>
>>     NOTES
>>        According to POSIX, exactly one of MS_SYNC and MS_ASYNC  must  be
>>        specified  in  flags.   However,  Linux permits a call to msync()
>>        that specifies neither of these flags, with  semantics  that  are
>>        (currently)  equivalent  to  specifying  MS_ASYNC.   (Since Linux
>>        2.6.19, MS_ASYNC is in fact a no-op, since  the  kernel  properly
>>        tracks  dirty  pages  and  flushes them to storage as necessary.)
>>        Notwithstanding the Linux behavior, portable, future-proof appli‐
>>        cations  should  ensure  that they specify exactly one of MS_SYNC
>>        and MS_ASYNC in flags.
>>
>> Comments on this draft welcome.
> 
> I think it's a step backwards to document unspecified behavior.  If
> anything, the man page should make it clear that providing neither flag
> results in undefined behavior and will lead to failure on systems on
> than Linux.  While I can see the point of not changing the previous
> behavior to protect buggy code, there's no need to document it in the
> man page and further enshrine it.

The Linux behavior is what it is. For the reasons I mentioned already,
it's unlikely to change. And, when the man pages omit to explain what
Linux actually does, there will one day come a request to actually
document the behavior. So, I don't think it's quite enough to say the 
behavior is undefined. On the other hand, it does not hurt to further
expand the portability warning. I made the text now:

    NOTES
       According to POSIX, either MS_SYNC or MS_ASYNC must be  specified
       in  flags, and  indeed failure to include one of these flags will
       cause msync() to fail on some systems.  However, Linux permits  a
       call  to  msync()  that  specifies  neither  of these flags, with
       semantics that are (currently) equivalent to specifying MS_ASYNC.
       (Since  Linux 2.6.19, MS_ASYNC is in fact a no-op, since the ker‐
       nel properly tracks dirty pages and flushes them  to  storage  as
       necessary.)    Notwithstanding   the  Linux  behavior,  portable,
       future-proof applications should ensure that they specify  either
       MS_SYNC or MS_ASYNC in flags.




-- 
Michael Kerrisk
Linux man-pages maintainer; http://www.kernel.org/doc/man-pages/
Linux/UNIX System Programming Training: http://man7.org/training/

  reply	other threads:[~2014-04-04  7:11 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 42+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2014-04-01 18:25 [PATCH] mm: msync: require either MS_ASYNC or MS_SYNC Richard Hansen
2014-04-01 18:25 ` Richard Hansen
     [not found] ` <533B04A9.6090405-A08e6c8yq/Q@public.gmane.org>
2014-04-01 19:32   ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
2014-04-01 19:32     ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
2014-04-01 19:32     ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
2014-04-02  0:53     ` Richard Hansen
2014-04-02  0:53       ` Richard Hansen
     [not found]     ` <533B1439.3010403-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
2014-04-02 10:45       ` chrubis-AlSwsSmVLrQ
2014-04-02 10:45         ` chrubis
2014-04-02 10:45         ` chrubis
2014-04-02 11:10   ` Christoph Hellwig
2014-04-02 11:10     ` Christoph Hellwig
2014-04-02 11:10     ` Christoph Hellwig
     [not found]     ` <20140402111032.GA27551-wEGCiKHe2LqWVfeAwA7xHQ@public.gmane.org>
2014-04-02 11:45       ` Steven Whitehouse
2014-04-02 11:45         ` Steven Whitehouse
2014-04-02 11:45         ` Steven Whitehouse
2014-04-02 23:44         ` Richard Hansen
2014-04-02 23:44           ` Richard Hansen
2014-04-02 23:44           ` Richard Hansen
2014-04-03  8:25           ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
2014-04-03  8:25             ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
2014-04-03 11:51             ` Christopher Covington
2014-04-03 11:51               ` Christopher Covington
2014-04-04  6:54               ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
2014-04-04  6:54                 ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
2014-04-04  6:54                 ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
2014-04-03 12:57             ` Greg Troxel
2014-04-03 12:57               ` Greg Troxel
2014-04-04  7:11               ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages) [this message]
2014-04-04  7:11                 ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
2014-04-04  7:11                 ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
2014-04-03 20:23             ` Richard Hansen
2014-04-03 20:23               ` Richard Hansen
2014-04-04  6:53               ` Christoph Hellwig
2014-04-04  6:53                 ` Christoph Hellwig
2014-04-04  7:12           ` [PATCH] mm: msync: require either MS_ASYNC or MS_SYNC [resend] Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
2014-04-04  7:12             ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
2014-04-04  7:12             ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
2014-04-04 14:07             ` Peter Zijlstra
2014-04-04 14:07               ` Peter Zijlstra
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2013-09-01 19:58 [PATCH] mm: msync: require either MS_ASYNC or MS_SYNC Richard Hansen
2013-09-01 19:58 ` Richard Hansen

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