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From: Nicolas Dichtel <nicolas.dichtel-pdR9zngts4EAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
To: Cong Wang <cwang-xCSkyg8dI+0RB7SZvlqPiA@public.gmane.org>
Cc: netdev <netdev-u79uwXL29TY76Z2rM5mHXA@public.gmane.org>,
	containers-cunTk1MwBs9QetFLy7KEm3xJsTq8ys+cHZ5vskTnxNA@public.gmane.org,
	"linux-kernel-u79uwXL29TY76Z2rM5mHXA@public.gmane.org"
	<linux-kernel-u79uwXL29TY76Z2rM5mHXA@public.gmane.org>,
	Andy Lutomirski <luto-kltTT9wpgjJwATOyAt5JVQ@public.gmane.org>,
	Stephen Hemminger
	<stephen-OTpzqLSitTUnbdJkjeBofR2eb7JE58TQ@public.gmane.org>,
	"Eric W. Biederman"
	<ebiederm-aS9lmoZGLiVWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org>,
	linux-api-u79uwXL29TY76Z2rM5mHXA@public.gmane.org,
	Andrew Morton
	<akpm-de/tnXTf+JLsfHDXvbKv3WD2FQJk+8+b@public.gmane.org>,
	David Miller <davem-fT/PcQaiUtIeIZ0/mPfg9Q@public.gmane.org>
Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH net-next v2 0/5] netns: allow to identify peer netns
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2014 15:38:57 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <54256C71.20108@6wind.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CAHA+R7OdOUMShX6Nphdfh8+fGiXyO+sGNHy0ch_XYh5dpURcmQ-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>

Le 26/09/2014 03:58, Cong Wang a écrit :
> On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 1:53 AM, Nicolas Dichtel
> <nicolas.dichtel@6wind.com> wrote:
>> Le 24/09/2014 18:48, Cong Wang a écrit :
>>
>>> On Wed, Sep 24, 2014 at 9:31 AM, Nicolas Dichtel
>>> <nicolas.dichtel@6wind.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I think in this case your ID's are still available, but aren't you
>>>>> providing a new way
>>>>> for the inner netns device to escape which we are trying to avoid?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It's why the ids depend on user ns. Only if user ns are the same we allow
>>>> to
>>>> get an id for a peer netns.
>>>
>>>
>>> Too late, userns is relatively new, relying on it breaks our existing
>>> assumption.
>>>
>> I don't get your point. netns has been added in kernel after user ns:
>> acce292c82d4 user namespace: add the framework => 2.6.23
>> 5f256becd868 [NET]: Basic network namespace infrastructure. => 2.6.24
>
> Was it complete on 2.6.x? I doubt...
>
> https://lkml.org/lkml/2014/8/20/826
>
>     As at Linux 3.8, most relevant subsystems supported  user  names‐
>         paces,  but  a number of filesystems did not have the infrastruc‐
>         ture needed to map user and group IDs  between  user  namespaces.
>         Linux  3.9  added the required infrastructure support for many of
>         the remaining unsupported filesystems (Plan 9 (9P),  Andrew  File
>         System  (AFS),  Ceph,  CIFS,  CODA,  NFS, and OCFS2).  Linux 3.11
>         added support the last of the unsupported major filesystems, XFS.
>
>
>>
>> In the kernel, each netns is linked with a user ns.
>
> Are you saying every time we create a netns we have a new userns?
> This doesn't make sense for me.
>
No. I mean that each netns depends on a userns.
See include/net/net_namespace.h:
struct net {
[snip]
         struct user_namespace   *user_ns;       /* Owning user namespace */
[snip]
}
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WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Nicolas Dichtel <nicolas.dichtel@6wind.com>
To: Cong Wang <cwang@twopensource.com>
Cc: netdev <netdev@vger.kernel.org>,
	containers@lists.linux-foundation.org,
	"linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org" <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	linux-api@vger.kernel.org, David Miller <davem@davemloft.net>,
	"Eric W. Biederman" <ebiederm@xmission.com>,
	Stephen Hemminger <stephen@networkplumber.org>,
	Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>,
	Andy Lutomirski <luto@amacapital.net>
Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH net-next v2 0/5] netns: allow to identify peer netns
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2014 15:38:57 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <54256C71.20108@6wind.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CAHA+R7OdOUMShX6Nphdfh8+fGiXyO+sGNHy0ch_XYh5dpURcmQ@mail.gmail.com>

Le 26/09/2014 03:58, Cong Wang a écrit :
> On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 1:53 AM, Nicolas Dichtel
> <nicolas.dichtel@6wind.com> wrote:
>> Le 24/09/2014 18:48, Cong Wang a écrit :
>>
>>> On Wed, Sep 24, 2014 at 9:31 AM, Nicolas Dichtel
>>> <nicolas.dichtel@6wind.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I think in this case your ID's are still available, but aren't you
>>>>> providing a new way
>>>>> for the inner netns device to escape which we are trying to avoid?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It's why the ids depend on user ns. Only if user ns are the same we allow
>>>> to
>>>> get an id for a peer netns.
>>>
>>>
>>> Too late, userns is relatively new, relying on it breaks our existing
>>> assumption.
>>>
>> I don't get your point. netns has been added in kernel after user ns:
>> acce292c82d4 user namespace: add the framework => 2.6.23
>> 5f256becd868 [NET]: Basic network namespace infrastructure. => 2.6.24
>
> Was it complete on 2.6.x? I doubt...
>
> https://lkml.org/lkml/2014/8/20/826
>
>     As at Linux 3.8, most relevant subsystems supported  user  names‐
>         paces,  but  a number of filesystems did not have the infrastruc‐
>         ture needed to map user and group IDs  between  user  namespaces.
>         Linux  3.9  added the required infrastructure support for many of
>         the remaining unsupported filesystems (Plan 9 (9P),  Andrew  File
>         System  (AFS),  Ceph,  CIFS,  CODA,  NFS, and OCFS2).  Linux 3.11
>         added support the last of the unsupported major filesystems, XFS.
>
>
>>
>> In the kernel, each netns is linked with a user ns.
>
> Are you saying every time we create a netns we have a new userns?
> This doesn't make sense for me.
>
No. I mean that each netns depends on a userns.
See include/net/net_namespace.h:
struct net {
[snip]
         struct user_namespace   *user_ns;       /* Owning user namespace */
[snip]
}

  parent reply	other threads:[~2014-09-26 13:38 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 150+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2014-09-23 13:20 [RFC PATCH net-next v2 0/5] netns: allow to identify peer netns Nicolas Dichtel
2014-09-23 13:20 ` [RFC PATCH net-next v2 1/5] netns: allocate netns ids Nicolas Dichtel
2014-09-23 13:20 ` [RFC PATCH net-next v2 2/5] netns: add genl cmd to get the id of a netns Nicolas Dichtel
2014-09-23 13:20 ` [RFC PATCH net-next v2 3/5] rtnl: add link netns id to interface messages Nicolas Dichtel
2014-09-23 13:20 ` [RFC PATCH net-next v2 4/5] iptunnels: advertise link netns via netlink Nicolas Dichtel
     [not found] ` <1411478430-4989-1-git-send-email-nicolas.dichtel-pdR9zngts4EAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
2014-09-23 13:20   ` [RFC PATCH net-next v2 1/5] netns: allocate netns ids Nicolas Dichtel
2014-09-23 13:20   ` [RFC PATCH net-next v2 2/5] netns: add genl cmd to get the id of a netns Nicolas Dichtel
2014-09-23 13:20   ` [RFC PATCH net-next v2 3/5] rtnl: add link netns id to interface messages Nicolas Dichtel
2014-09-23 13:20   ` [RFC PATCH net-next v2 4/5] iptunnels: advertise link netns via netlink Nicolas Dichtel
2014-09-23 13:20   ` [RFC PATCH net-next v2 5/5] rtnl: allow to create device with IFLA_LINK_NETNSID set Nicolas Dichtel
2014-09-23 13:20     ` Nicolas Dichtel
2014-09-23 19:22   ` [RFC PATCH net-next v2 0/5] netns: allow to identify peer netns Cong Wang
2014-09-23 19:22     ` Cong Wang
     [not found]     ` <CAHA+R7NnBJ=T3sukzzp-OD2am1nd318XbrXCX84LfSL=nu9ojw-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
2014-09-24  9:23       ` Nicolas Dichtel
2014-09-24  9:23         ` Nicolas Dichtel
     [not found]         ` <54228D87.3070309-pdR9zngts4EAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
2014-09-24 16:01           ` Cong Wang
2014-09-24 16:01             ` Cong Wang
     [not found]             ` <CAHA+R7NfJYzCsZx0E9YVXKVCQbCm_thPSi+80tix8Z9nVA82Ug-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
2014-09-24 16:15               ` Cong Wang
2014-09-24 16:15                 ` Cong Wang
     [not found]                 ` <CAHA+R7MVL=WpepRy8iz6iT6Kkq1RHG+b9TxJothP94ixyAj-3Q-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
2014-09-24 16:31                   ` Nicolas Dichtel
2014-09-24 16:31                     ` Nicolas Dichtel
     [not found]                     ` <5422F1F7.8010308-pdR9zngts4EAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
2014-09-24 16:48                       ` Cong Wang
2014-09-24 16:48                         ` Cong Wang
     [not found]                         ` <CAHA+R7MM04ew=J8sHfSQERwoCAgEDfrGgtgRORqs3ePgtjVYWg-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
2014-09-25  8:53                           ` Nicolas Dichtel
2014-09-25  8:53                             ` Nicolas Dichtel
     [not found]                             ` <5423D808.7050800-pdR9zngts4EAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
2014-09-26  1:58                               ` Cong Wang
2014-09-26  1:58                                 ` Cong Wang
     [not found]                                 ` <CAHA+R7OdOUMShX6Nphdfh8+fGiXyO+sGNHy0ch_XYh5dpURcmQ-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
2014-09-26 13:38                                   ` Nicolas Dichtel [this message]
2014-09-26 13:38                                     ` Nicolas Dichtel
2014-09-24 16:27               ` Nicolas Dichtel
2014-09-24 16:27                 ` Nicolas Dichtel
     [not found]                 ` <5422F0F4.6000709-pdR9zngts4EAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
2014-09-24 16:45                   ` Cong Wang
2014-09-24 16:45                     ` Cong Wang
     [not found]                     ` <CAHA+R7Ot2kLHb+ne5AW3bFNc87qkFOiEHEyDh9sFrsHqXgrY3g-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
2014-09-25  8:53                       ` Nicolas Dichtel
2014-09-25  8:53                         ` Nicolas Dichtel
     [not found]                         ` <5423D80B.9060500-pdR9zngts4EAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
2014-09-26  2:09                           ` Cong Wang
2014-09-26  2:09                             ` Cong Wang
2014-09-26 13:40                             ` Nicolas Dichtel
2014-09-26 13:40                               ` Nicolas Dichtel
     [not found]                               ` <54256CCB.4000709-pdR9zngts4EAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
2014-09-26 19:15                                 ` David Ahern
2014-09-26 19:15                                   ` David Ahern
     [not found]                                   ` <5425BB3E.10700-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
2014-09-26 19:34                                     ` Eric W. Biederman
2014-09-26 19:34                                       ` Eric W. Biederman
2014-09-26 19:34                                       ` Eric W. Biederman
     [not found]                                       ` <87mw9myy4n.fsf-JOvCrm2gF+uungPnsOpG7nhyD016LWXt@public.gmane.org>
2014-09-26 19:44                                         ` David Ahern
2014-09-26 19:44                                           ` David Ahern
     [not found]                                           ` <5425C22F.7050301-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
2014-09-26 20:45                                             ` Eric W. Biederman
2014-09-26 20:45                                               ` Eric W. Biederman
2014-09-26 20:45                                               ` Eric W. Biederman
     [not found]                                               ` <87tx3uun4q.fsf-JOvCrm2gF+uungPnsOpG7nhyD016LWXt@public.gmane.org>
2014-09-26 20:56                                                 ` David Ahern
2014-09-26 20:56                                                   ` David Ahern
2014-09-26 20:45                                             ` Eric W. Biederman
2014-09-26 19:34                                     ` Eric W. Biederman
2014-09-24 16:01           ` Cong Wang
2014-09-23 19:22   ` Cong Wang
2014-09-23 19:26   ` Andy Lutomirski
2014-09-23 19:26     ` Andy Lutomirski
     [not found]     ` <CALCETrWnZtWstBviDxcHpLpjHF3R+sgS48RYf2pbKBYeExZVOQ-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
2014-09-24  9:31       ` Nicolas Dichtel
2014-09-24  9:31         ` Nicolas Dichtel
     [not found]         ` <54228F8B.2030804-pdR9zngts4EAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
2014-09-24 17:05           ` Andy Lutomirski
2014-09-24 17:05             ` Andy Lutomirski
     [not found]             ` <CALCETrXMkV_1XR2mXOoO_2_vpB=6cPbWAAOhPFhPbDa_1P+zxw-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
2014-09-25  7:54               ` Nicolas Dichtel
2014-09-25  7:54               ` Nicolas Dichtel
2014-09-25  7:54                 ` Nicolas Dichtel
2014-09-24 17:05           ` Andy Lutomirski
2014-09-26 18:10   ` Eric W. Biederman
2014-09-26 18:10     ` Eric W. Biederman
     [not found]     ` <87ppei45ig.fsf-JOvCrm2gF+uungPnsOpG7nhyD016LWXt@public.gmane.org>
2014-09-26 18:26       ` Andy Lutomirski
2014-09-26 18:26         ` Andy Lutomirski
     [not found]         ` <CALCETrX5e0cp4QFCv1eAqR1hjoROU9Rh=cRos9U35DaR-py3Eg-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
2014-09-26 18:57           ` Eric W. Biederman
2014-09-26 18:57             ` Eric W. Biederman
     [not found]             ` <87y4t61a6v.fsf-JOvCrm2gF+uungPnsOpG7nhyD016LWXt@public.gmane.org>
2014-09-29 12:06               ` Nicolas Dichtel
2014-09-29 12:06             ` Nicolas Dichtel
     [not found]               ` <54294B4E.70501-pdR9zngts4EAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
2014-09-29 18:43                 ` Eric W. Biederman
2014-09-29 18:43                   ` Eric W. Biederman
     [not found]                   ` <87y4t2gtd0.fsf-JOvCrm2gF+uungPnsOpG7nhyD016LWXt@public.gmane.org>
2014-10-02 13:46                     ` Nicolas Dichtel
2014-10-02 13:46                       ` Nicolas Dichtel
     [not found]                       ` <542D5726.8070308-pdR9zngts4EAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
2014-10-02 13:48                         ` [RFC PATCH net-next v3 0/4] " Nicolas Dichtel
2014-10-02 13:48                           ` Nicolas Dichtel
     [not found]                           ` <1412257690-31253-1-git-send-email-nicolas.dichtel-pdR9zngts4EAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
2014-10-02 13:48                             ` [RFC PATCH net-next v3 1/4] netns: add genl cmd to add and get peer netns ids Nicolas Dichtel
2014-10-02 13:48                             ` Nicolas Dichtel
2014-10-02 13:48                               ` Nicolas Dichtel
     [not found]                               ` <1412257690-31253-2-git-send-email-nicolas.dichtel-pdR9zngts4EAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
2014-10-02 19:33                                 ` Eric W. Biederman
2014-10-02 19:33                                   ` Eric W. Biederman
     [not found]                                   ` <87tx3mmflp.fsf-JOvCrm2gF+uungPnsOpG7nhyD016LWXt@public.gmane.org>
2014-10-03 12:22                                     ` Nicolas Dichtel
2014-10-03 12:22                                     ` Nicolas Dichtel
2014-10-03 12:22                                       ` Nicolas Dichtel
2014-10-02 13:48                             ` [RFC PATCH net-next v3 2/4] rtnl: add link netns id to interface messages Nicolas Dichtel
2014-10-02 13:48                               ` Nicolas Dichtel
2014-10-02 13:48                             ` [RFC PATCH net-next v3 3/4] iptunnels: advertise link netns via netlink Nicolas Dichtel
2014-10-02 13:48                               ` Nicolas Dichtel
2014-10-02 13:48                             ` [RFC PATCH net-next v3 4/4] rtnl: allow to create device with IFLA_LINK_NETNSID set Nicolas Dichtel
2014-10-02 13:48                               ` Nicolas Dichtel
2014-10-30 15:25                             ` [PATCH net-next v4 0/4] netns: allow to identify peer netns Nicolas Dichtel
2014-10-30 15:25                               ` Nicolas Dichtel
2014-10-30 15:25                               ` [PATCH net-next v4 1/4] netns: add genl cmd to add and get peer netns ids Nicolas Dichtel
     [not found]                                 ` <1414682728-4532-2-git-send-email-nicolas.dichtel-pdR9zngts4EAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
2014-10-30 18:35                                   ` Eric W. Biederman
2014-10-30 18:35                                     ` Eric W. Biederman
     [not found]                                     ` <874mulh0cs.fsf-JOvCrm2gF+uungPnsOpG7nhyD016LWXt@public.gmane.org>
2014-10-31  9:41                                       ` Nicolas Dichtel
2014-10-31  9:41                                         ` Nicolas Dichtel
2014-10-31  9:41                                       ` Nicolas Dichtel
     [not found]                               ` <1414682728-4532-1-git-send-email-nicolas.dichtel-pdR9zngts4EAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
2014-10-30 15:25                                 ` Nicolas Dichtel
2014-10-30 15:25                                 ` [PATCH net-next v4 2/4] rtnl: add link netns id to interface messages Nicolas Dichtel
2014-10-30 15:25                                   ` Nicolas Dichtel
2014-10-30 15:25                                 ` [PATCH net-next v4 3/4] iptunnels: advertise link netns via netlink Nicolas Dichtel
2014-10-30 15:25                                   ` Nicolas Dichtel
2014-10-30 15:25                                 ` [PATCH net-next v4 4/4] rtnl: allow to create device with IFLA_LINK_NETNSID set Nicolas Dichtel
2014-10-30 15:25                                   ` Nicolas Dichtel
2014-10-30 18:41                                 ` [PATCH net-next v4 0/4] netns: allow to identify peer netns Eric W. Biederman
2014-10-30 18:41                                   ` Eric W. Biederman
     [not found]                                   ` <871tpph03k.fsf-JOvCrm2gF+uungPnsOpG7nhyD016LWXt@public.gmane.org>
2014-10-31  9:48                                     ` Nicolas Dichtel
2014-10-31  9:48                                     ` Nicolas Dichtel
2014-10-31  9:48                                       ` Nicolas Dichtel
     [not found]                                       ` <54535B00.5090708-pdR9zngts4EAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
2014-10-31 19:14                                         ` Eric W. Biederman
2014-10-31 19:14                                           ` Eric W. Biederman
     [not found]                                           ` <87wq7g831b.fsf-JOvCrm2gF+uungPnsOpG7nhyD016LWXt@public.gmane.org>
2014-11-05 14:23                                             ` Nicolas Dichtel
2014-11-05 14:23                                               ` Nicolas Dichtel
     [not found]                                               ` <545A32C4.7070108-pdR9zngts4EAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
2014-12-04 16:21                                                 ` Nicolas Dichtel
2014-12-04 16:21                                                   ` Nicolas Dichtel
2015-01-15 14:11                                             ` [PATCH net-next v5 " Nicolas Dichtel
2015-01-15 14:11                                           ` Nicolas Dichtel
2015-01-15 14:11                                             ` [PATCH net-next v5 1/4] netns: add rtnl cmd to add and get peer netns ids Nicolas Dichtel
2015-01-15 14:11                                             ` [PATCH net-next v5 2/4] rtnl: add link netns id to interface messages Nicolas Dichtel
2015-01-15 14:11                                             ` [PATCH net-next v5 3/4] tunnels: advertise link netns via netlink Nicolas Dichtel
2015-01-15 14:11                                             ` [PATCH net-next v5 4/4] rtnl: allow to create device with IFLA_LINK_NETNSID set Nicolas Dichtel
     [not found]                                             ` <1421331078-21622-1-git-send-email-nicolas.dichtel-pdR9zngts4EAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
2015-01-15 14:11                                               ` [PATCH net-next v5 1/4] netns: add rtnl cmd to add and get peer netns ids Nicolas Dichtel
2015-01-15 14:11                                               ` [PATCH net-next v5 2/4] rtnl: add link netns id to interface messages Nicolas Dichtel
2015-01-15 14:11                                               ` [PATCH net-next v5 3/4] tunnels: advertise link netns via netlink Nicolas Dichtel
2015-01-15 14:11                                               ` [PATCH net-next v5 4/4] rtnl: allow to create device with IFLA_LINK_NETNSID set Nicolas Dichtel
2015-01-19 19:16                                               ` [PATCH net-next v5 0/4] netns: allow to identify peer netns David Miller
2015-01-19 19:16                                                 ` David Miller
2015-01-19 19:16                                               ` David Miller
2014-11-01 21:08                                     ` [PATCH net-next v4 " David Miller
2014-11-01 21:08                                       ` David Miller
2014-11-01 21:08                                     ` David Miller
2014-11-24 13:45                                     ` Nicolas Dichtel
2014-11-24 13:45                                       ` Nicolas Dichtel
2014-10-30 15:25                             ` Nicolas Dichtel
2014-10-02 19:20                         ` [RFC PATCH net-next v2 0/5] " Eric W. Biederman
2014-10-02 19:20                           ` Eric W. Biederman
     [not found]                           ` <8761g2nurx.fsf-JOvCrm2gF+uungPnsOpG7nhyD016LWXt@public.gmane.org>
2014-10-02 19:31                             ` Andy Lutomirski
2014-10-02 19:31                               ` Andy Lutomirski
     [not found]                               ` <CALCETrWxqzUF1x+TmW5G4kuHPP+sUtiRaT6dpZ0mQTJ217QB5w-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
2014-10-02 19:45                                 ` Eric W. Biederman
2014-10-02 19:45                                   ` Eric W. Biederman
     [not found]                                   ` <877g0il0gd.fsf-JOvCrm2gF+uungPnsOpG7nhyD016LWXt@public.gmane.org>
2014-10-02 19:48                                     ` Andy Lutomirski
2014-10-02 19:48                                       ` Andy Lutomirski
2014-10-03 12:22                             ` Nicolas Dichtel
2014-10-03 12:22                               ` Nicolas Dichtel
2014-10-03 12:22                             ` Nicolas Dichtel
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2014-09-23 13:20 Nicolas Dichtel

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