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From: Dave Hansen <dave.hansen@intel.com>
To: Andy Lutomirski <luto@amacapital.net>
Cc: Ingo Molnar <mingo@kernel.org>,
	linux-arch <linux-arch@vger.kernel.org>,
	Thomas Gleixner <tglx@linutronix.de>,
	"linux-mm@kvack.org" <linux-mm@kvack.org>,
	Mel Gorman <mgorman@techsingularity.net>,
	Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>,
	Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>,
	Linux API <linux-api@vger.kernel.org>,
	Arnd Bergmann <arnd@arndb.de>,
	"linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org" <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	Al Viro <viro@zeniv.linux.org.uk>,
	Peter Zijlstra <a.p.zijlstra@chello.nl>,
	Hugh Dickins <hughd@google.com>, "H. Peter Anvin" <hpa@zytor.com>,
	X86 ML <x86@kernel.org>,
	Dave Hansen <dave.hansen@linux.intel.com>
Subject: Re: [PATCH 6/9] x86, pkeys: add pkey set/get syscalls
Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2016 08:48:00 -0700	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <5783BFB0.70203@intel.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CALCETrW1qLZE_cq1CvmLkdnFyKRWVZuah29xERTC7o0eZ8DbwQ@mail.gmail.com>

On 07/11/2016 07:45 AM, Andy Lutomirski wrote:
> On Mon, Jul 11, 2016 at 7:34 AM, Dave Hansen <dave@sr71.net> wrote:
>> Should we instead just recommend to userspace that they lock down access
>> to keys by default in all threads as a best practice?
> 
> Is that really better than doing it in-kernel?  My concern is that
> we'll find library code that creates a thread, and that code could run
> before the pkey-aware part of the program even starts running. 

Yeah, so let's assume we have some pkey-unaware thread.  The upside of a
scheme where the kernel preemptively (and transparently to the thread)
locks down PKRU is that the thread can't go corrupting any non-zero-pkey
structures that came from other threads.

But, the downside is that the thread can not access any non-zero-pkey
structures without taking some kind of action with PKRU.  That obviously
won't happen since the thread is pkeys-unaware to begin with.  Would
that break these libraries unless everything using pkeys knows to only
share pkey=0 data with those threads?

> So how is user code supposed lock down all of its threads?
> 
> seccomp has TSYNC for this, but I don't think that PKRU allows 
> something like that.

I'm not sure this is possible for PKRU.  Think of a simple PKRU
manipulation in userspace:

	pkru = rdpkru();
	pkru |= PKEY_DENY_ACCESS<<key*2;
	wrpkru(pkru);

If we push a PKRU value into a thread between the rdpkru() and wrpkru(),
we'll lose the content of that "push".  I'm not sure there's any way to
guarantee this with a user-controlled register.

WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Dave Hansen <dave.hansen@intel.com>
To: Andy Lutomirski <luto@amacapital.net>
Cc: Ingo Molnar <mingo@kernel.org>,
	linux-arch <linux-arch@vger.kernel.org>,
	Thomas Gleixner <tglx@linutronix.de>,
	"linux-mm@kvack.org" <linux-mm@kvack.org>,
	Mel Gorman <mgorman@techsingularity.net>,
	Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>,
	Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>,
	Linux API <linux-api@vger.kernel.org>,
	Arnd Bergmann <arnd@arndb.de>,
	"linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org" <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	Al Viro <viro@zeniv.linux.org.uk>,
	Peter Zijlstra <a.p.zijlstra@chello.nl>,
	Hugh Dickins <hughd@google.com>, "H. Peter Anvin" <hpa@zytor.com>,
	X86 ML <x86@kernel.org>,
	Dave Hansen <dave.hansen@linux.intel.com>
Subject: Re: [PATCH 6/9] x86, pkeys: add pkey set/get syscalls
Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2016 08:48:00 -0700	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <5783BFB0.70203@intel.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CALCETrW1qLZE_cq1CvmLkdnFyKRWVZuah29xERTC7o0eZ8DbwQ@mail.gmail.com>

On 07/11/2016 07:45 AM, Andy Lutomirski wrote:
> On Mon, Jul 11, 2016 at 7:34 AM, Dave Hansen <dave@sr71.net> wrote:
>> Should we instead just recommend to userspace that they lock down access
>> to keys by default in all threads as a best practice?
> 
> Is that really better than doing it in-kernel?  My concern is that
> we'll find library code that creates a thread, and that code could run
> before the pkey-aware part of the program even starts running. 

Yeah, so let's assume we have some pkey-unaware thread.  The upside of a
scheme where the kernel preemptively (and transparently to the thread)
locks down PKRU is that the thread can't go corrupting any non-zero-pkey
structures that came from other threads.

But, the downside is that the thread can not access any non-zero-pkey
structures without taking some kind of action with PKRU.  That obviously
won't happen since the thread is pkeys-unaware to begin with.  Would
that break these libraries unless everything using pkeys knows to only
share pkey=0 data with those threads?

> So how is user code supposed lock down all of its threads?
> 
> seccomp has TSYNC for this, but I don't think that PKRU allows 
> something like that.

I'm not sure this is possible for PKRU.  Think of a simple PKRU
manipulation in userspace:

	pkru = rdpkru();
	pkru |= PKEY_DENY_ACCESS<<key*2;
	wrpkru(pkru);

If we push a PKRU value into a thread between the rdpkru() and wrpkru(),
we'll lose the content of that "push".  I'm not sure there's any way to
guarantee this with a user-controlled register.

--
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  reply	other threads:[~2016-07-11 15:48 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 103+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2016-07-07 12:47 [PATCH 0/9] [REVIEW-REQUEST] [v4] System Calls for Memory Protection Keys Dave Hansen
2016-07-07 12:47 ` Dave Hansen
2016-07-07 12:47 ` [PATCH 1/9] x86, pkeys: add fault handling for PF_PK page fault bit Dave Hansen
2016-07-07 12:47   ` Dave Hansen
2016-07-07 14:40   ` Mel Gorman
2016-07-07 14:40     ` Mel Gorman
2016-07-07 15:42     ` Dave Hansen
2016-07-07 15:42       ` Dave Hansen
2016-07-07 12:47 ` [PATCH 2/9] mm: implement new pkey_mprotect() system call Dave Hansen
2016-07-07 12:47   ` Dave Hansen
2016-07-07 14:40   ` Mel Gorman
2016-07-07 14:40     ` Mel Gorman
2016-07-07 16:51     ` Dave Hansen
2016-07-07 16:51       ` Dave Hansen
2016-07-08 10:15       ` Mel Gorman
2016-07-08 10:15         ` Mel Gorman
2016-07-07 12:47 ` [PATCH 3/9] x86, pkeys: make mprotect_key() mask off additional vm_flags Dave Hansen
2016-07-07 12:47   ` Dave Hansen
2016-07-07 12:47 ` [PATCH 4/9] x86: wire up mprotect_key() system call Dave Hansen
2016-07-07 12:47   ` Dave Hansen
2016-07-07 12:47 ` [PATCH 5/9] x86, pkeys: allocation/free syscalls Dave Hansen
2016-07-07 12:47   ` Dave Hansen
2016-07-07 14:40   ` Mel Gorman
2016-07-07 14:40     ` Mel Gorman
2016-07-07 15:38     ` Dave Hansen
2016-07-07 15:38       ` Dave Hansen
2016-07-07 12:47 ` [PATCH 6/9] x86, pkeys: add pkey set/get syscalls Dave Hansen
2016-07-07 12:47   ` Dave Hansen
2016-07-07 14:45   ` Mel Gorman
2016-07-07 14:45     ` Mel Gorman
2016-07-07 17:33     ` Dave Hansen
2016-07-07 17:33       ` Dave Hansen
2016-07-08  7:18       ` Ingo Molnar
2016-07-08  7:18         ` Ingo Molnar
     [not found]         ` <20160708071810.GA27457-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
2016-07-08 16:32           ` Dave Hansen
2016-07-08 16:32             ` Dave Hansen
2016-07-08 16:32             ` Dave Hansen
2016-07-09  8:37             ` Ingo Molnar
2016-07-09  8:37               ` Ingo Molnar
2016-07-09  8:37               ` Ingo Molnar
2016-07-11  4:25               ` Andy Lutomirski
2016-07-11  4:25                 ` Andy Lutomirski
     [not found]                 ` <CALCETrXJhVz6Za4=oidiM2Vfbb+XdggFBYiVyvOCcia+w064aQ-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
2016-07-11  7:35                   ` Ingo Molnar
2016-07-11  7:35                     ` Ingo Molnar
2016-07-11  7:35                     ` Ingo Molnar
2016-07-11 14:28                     ` Dave Hansen
2016-07-11 14:28                       ` Dave Hansen
2016-07-12  7:13                       ` Ingo Molnar
2016-07-12  7:13                         ` Ingo Molnar
2016-07-12 15:39                         ` Dave Hansen
2016-07-12 15:39                           ` Dave Hansen
2016-07-11 14:50                     ` Andy Lutomirski
2016-07-11 14:50                       ` Andy Lutomirski
2016-07-11 14:34                   ` Dave Hansen
2016-07-11 14:34                     ` Dave Hansen
2016-07-11 14:34                     ` Dave Hansen
2016-07-11 14:45                     ` Andy Lutomirski
2016-07-11 14:45                       ` Andy Lutomirski
2016-07-11 15:48                       ` Dave Hansen [this message]
2016-07-11 15:48                         ` Dave Hansen
2016-07-12 16:32                         ` Andy Lutomirski
2016-07-12 16:32                           ` Andy Lutomirski
2016-07-12 17:12                           ` Dave Hansen
2016-07-12 17:12                             ` Dave Hansen
2016-07-12 22:55                             ` Andy Lutomirski
2016-07-12 22:55                               ` Andy Lutomirski
2016-07-13  7:56                           ` Ingo Molnar
2016-07-13  7:56                             ` Ingo Molnar
2016-07-13 18:43                             ` Andy Lutomirski
2016-07-13 18:43                               ` Andy Lutomirski
2016-07-14  8:07                               ` Ingo Molnar
2016-07-14  8:07                                 ` Ingo Molnar
2016-07-18  4:43                                 ` Andy Lutomirski
2016-07-18  4:43                                   ` Andy Lutomirski
2016-07-18  9:56                                   ` Ingo Molnar
2016-07-18  9:56                                     ` Ingo Molnar
     [not found]               ` <20160709083715.GA29939-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
2016-07-18 18:02                 ` Dave Hansen
2016-07-18 18:02                   ` Dave Hansen
2016-07-18 18:02                   ` Dave Hansen
2016-07-18 20:12                 ` Dave Hansen
2016-07-18 20:12                   ` Dave Hansen
2016-07-18 20:12                   ` Dave Hansen
2016-07-08 19:26         ` Dave Hansen
2016-07-08 19:26           ` Dave Hansen
     [not found]       ` <577E924C.6010406-gkUM19QKKo4@public.gmane.org>
2016-07-08 10:22         ` Mel Gorman
2016-07-08 10:22           ` Mel Gorman
2016-07-08 10:22           ` Mel Gorman
2016-07-07 12:47 ` [PATCH 7/9] generic syscalls: wire up memory protection keys syscalls Dave Hansen
2016-07-07 12:47   ` Dave Hansen
2016-07-07 12:47 ` [PATCH 8/9] pkeys: add details of system call use to Documentation/ Dave Hansen
2016-07-07 12:47   ` Dave Hansen
2016-07-07 12:47 ` [PATCH 9/9] x86, pkeys: add self-tests Dave Hansen
2016-07-07 12:47   ` Dave Hansen
     [not found] ` <20160707124719.3F04C882-LXbPSdftPKxrdx17CPfAsdBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org>
2016-07-07 14:47   ` [PATCH 0/9] [REVIEW-REQUEST] [v4] System Calls for Memory Protection Keys Mel Gorman
2016-07-07 14:47     ` Mel Gorman
2016-07-07 14:47     ` Mel Gorman
2016-07-08 18:38   ` Hugh Dickins
2016-07-08 18:38     ` Hugh Dickins
2016-07-08 18:38     ` Hugh Dickins
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2016-06-09  0:01 [PATCH 0/9] [v3] " Dave Hansen
2016-06-09  0:01 ` [PATCH 6/9] x86, pkeys: add pkey set/get syscalls Dave Hansen
2016-06-09  0:01   ` Dave Hansen
2016-06-07 20:47 [PATCH 0/9] [v2] System Calls for Memory Protection Keys Dave Hansen
2016-06-07 20:47 ` [PATCH 6/9] x86, pkeys: add pkey set/get syscalls Dave Hansen
2016-06-07 20:47   ` Dave Hansen

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