[Xenomai-help] Xenomai and Virtex II Pro (PPC405)

[Xenomai-help] Xenomai and Virtex II Pro (PPC405)

[Joachim Meyer]

Hi

2 Questions:

1: I wanted to use RTAI on an Linux I compiled myself for a ppc405 core on a Virtex II pro. But I realized that the support of xenomai for the ppc405 seems a lot better. Has anyone expirience with that and can give me some tips? I use the XUP Board from Xilinx:
http://www.xilinx.com/univ/xupv2p.html

2: There is also an framework wich depends on RTAI. Can I use that framework with xenomai and this rtai-skin I read about?

Thanks for all help & answers.
Joachim
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Re: [Xenomai-help] Xenomai and Virtex II Pro (PPC405)

[Alexis Berlemont]

Hi,

> 1: I wanted to use RTAI on an Linux I compiled myself for a ppc405 core on
> a Virtex II pro. But I realized that the support of xenomai for the ppc405
> seems a lot better. Has anyone expirience with that and can give me some
> tips? I use the XUP Board from Xilinx:
> http://www.xilinx.com/univ/xupv2p.html

Correct me if am wrong,but for me, a Virtex II Pro contains 1 (maybe 2) 
hardwired PPC405 core(s) inside the FPGA. But compared to common AMCC or 
Freescale PPC micro-controllers, you have to instanciante in VHDL some 
peripherals / controllers or some glue towards them. You have to build your 
own micro-controller, haven't you ?

Consequently, as soon as you make Linux run on it, I can see no reason why you 
would get trouble with Xenomai. Even if you had to cope with such a 
predicament, the problem(s) would be bound to be located in ipipe, not in 
Xenomai. Keep in mind that RTAI seems to be based on ipipe too.  

Anyway, if you encounter troubles, I would advice you to have a look at your 
IRQ controller; just in case, the PPC405 core is interfaced with an external 
IRQ controller... maybe someone else has more accurate info on Virtex II pro 
PPC405...

Just to reassure you, I had opportunities to work with various AMCC CPU (405, 
440) and a little bit with FREESCALE components (PQ2, PQ3); everything was 
fine with Xenomai.

> 2: There is also an framework wich depends on RTAI. Can I use that
> framework with xenomai and this rtai-skin I read about?

Which framework ?

Alexis.

Re: [Xenomai-help] Xenomai and Virtex II Pro (PPC405)

[Klaas Gadeyne]

On Fri, 22 Feb 2008, Joachim Meyer wrote:
> 2 Questions:
>
> 1: I wanted to use RTAI on an Linux I compiled myself for a ppc405 core on a Virtex II pro. But I realized that the support of xenomai for the ppc405 seems a lot better. Has anyone expirience with that and can give me some tips? I use the XUP Board from Xilinx:
> http://www.xilinx.com/univ/xupv2p.html

<http://users.telenet.be/steven.kauffmann/installation/index.htm>

Note that this procedure supposes you have access to the Xilinx EDK...

regards,

Klaas

Re: [Xenomai-help] Xenomai and Virtex II Pro (PPC405)

[Joachim Meyer]

>Correct me if am wrong,but for me, a Virtex II Pro contains 1 (maybe 2)
>hardwired PPC405 core(s) inside the FPGA. But compared to common AMCC or
>Freescale PPC micro-controllers, you have to instanciante in VHDL some
>peripherals / controllers or some glue towards them. You have to build your
>own micro-controller, haven't you ?

I don't think you have to add any VHDL Code for the ppc (2 of them on my V2)
But I use a Kernel from here
http://git.xilinx.com/cgi-bin/gitweb.cgi?p=linux-2.6-xlnx.git;a=summary
because there are already some drivers for my Evaluation Board intergrated.

>Consequently, as soon as you make Linux run on it, I can see no reason why you
>would get trouble with Xenomai. Even if you had to cope with such a
>predicament, the problem(s) would be bound to be located in ipipe, not in
>Xenomai. Keep in mind that RTAI seems to be based on ipipe too.

I already got some trouble. But this could also be because I don't know 
what exactly to do. Is there a good Step by Step howto you know? I don't
think one of the howtos at the xenomai site explains how to setup xenomai.
What is this ipipe thing?


>Which framework ?

An application, basing on this framework (written by someone at my college, 
who isn't here anymore), which bases on rtai, was running on linux on a celeron.
This application should be ported to the Virtex 2 Pro by me. So I ask myself how 
hard it would be, to use Xenomai (perhaps with this "rtai skin??") instead of rtai. 

Thank you for you answer and help.
Greetings
Joachim
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Re: [Xenomai-help] Xenomai and Virtex II Pro (PPC405)

[Alexis Berlemont]

Hi, 

> >Correct me if am wrong,but for me, a Virtex II Pro contains 1 (maybe 2)
> >hardwired PPC405 core(s) inside the FPGA. But compared to common AMCC or
> >Freescale PPC micro-controllers, you have to instanciante in VHDL some
> >peripherals / controllers or some glue towards them. You have to build
> > your own micro-controller, haven't you ?
>
> I don't think you have to add any VHDL Code for the ppc (2 of them on my
> V2) But I use a Kernel from here
> http://git.xilinx.com/cgi-bin/gitweb.cgi?p=linux-2.6-xlnx.git;a=summary
> because there are already some drivers for my Evaluation Board intergrated.

I don't understand: I thought only the PPC405 cores were implemented as hard 
IPs inside the FPGA, not the DDR/SDRAM controller, the EBC, etc.

> >Consequently, as soon as you make Linux run on it, I can see no reason why
> > you would get trouble with Xenomai. Even if you had to cope with such a
> > predicament, the problem(s) would be bound to be located in ipipe, not in
> > Xenomai. Keep in mind that RTAI seems to be based on ipipe too.
>
> I already got some trouble. But this could also be because I don't know 
> what exactly to do. Is there a good Step by Step howto you know? I don't
> think one of the howtos at the xenomai site explains how to setup xenomai.

Maybe the document README.INSTALL (located at the root of Xenomai archive) 
would be a goot start point. It explains how to compile and install Xenomail 
on your machine.

Have you already patched your kernel with Ipipe ?

> What is this ipipe thing?

Maybe I should have said "Adeos". You will find a related paper at the 
following address:

http://www.xenomai.org/documentation/branches/v2.3.x/pdf/Life-with-Adeos-rev-B.pdf

> >Which framework ?
>
> An application, basing on this framework (written by someone at my college,
> who isn't here anymore), which bases on rtai, was running on linux on a
> celeron. This application should be ported to the Virtex 2 Pro by me. So I
> ask myself how hard it would be, to use Xenomai (perhaps with this "rtai
> skin??") instead of rtai.

It depends on the RTAI functions which are called in your framework. I am not 
sure that 100% of the API is implemented. I did not have time to have a 
closer look... Maybe someone else has the answer...

Regards.

Alexis.

Re: [Xenomai-help] Xenomai and Virtex II Pro (PPC405)

[Jan Kiszka]

Alexis Berlemont wrote:
>>> Which framework ?
>> An application, basing on this framework (written by someone at my college,
>> who isn't here anymore), which bases on rtai, was running on linux on a
>> celeron. This application should be ported to the Virtex 2 Pro by me. So I
>> ask myself how hard it would be, to use Xenomai (perhaps with this "rtai
>> skin??") instead of rtai.
> 
> It depends on the RTAI functions which are called in your framework. I am not 
> sure that 100% of the API is implemented. I did not have time to have a 
> closer look... Maybe someone else has the answer...

The RTAI skin is kernel-space only so far, and it doesn't implement to 
full set of RTAI services - which would be a lot of work to do...

Take a look at the Native API of Xenomai. It is quite similar to RTAI, 
but you may find it way more consistent. Unless there is a hard 
requirement to keep the OS layer of that frame work at RTAI level, 
adopting to Native services should be the preferred way to go.

Jan

Re: [Xenomai-help] Xenomai and Virtex II Pro (PPC405)

[Joachim Meyer]

Hi

>I don't understand: I thought only the PPC405 cores were implemented as hard 
>IPs inside the FPGA, not the DDR/SDRAM controller, the EBC, etc.

Your probably right. I'm just starting to learn about FPGAs. But I didn't write anything in VHDL. But in the EDK (The Xilinx Programming Suite) I used the standard components on the builder, which includes some things like UART and DDRam, so the Code is probably in there as IP cores.

Thanks for all the information.
Joachim

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Re: [Xenomai-help] Xenomai and Virtex II Pro (PPC405)

[Joachim Meyer]

> <http://users.telenet.be/steven.kauffmann/installation/index.htm>
>
> Note that this procedure supposes you have access to the Xilinx EDK...
> 
> regards,
> 
> Klaas


Hi
The EDK thing is no Problem, but I'ld prefer a Kernel 2.6.x. You have expierience with that too?
Anyway, beside that your howto is perfect and will help me definetly
Greez
Joachim
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Re: [Xenomai-help] Xenomai and Virtex II Pro (PPC405)

[Klaas Gadeyne]

On Mon, 25 Feb 2008, Joachim Meyer wrote:
>> <http://users.telenet.be/steven.kauffmann/installation/index.htm>
>>
>> Note that this procedure supposes you have access to the Xilinx EDK...
[...]
> The EDK thing is no Problem, but I'ld prefer a Kernel 2.6.x. You have expierience with that too?

Nope.  IIRC we chose the 2.4 kernel since 2.6 on ppc was not that
obvious yet at that time, and (more importantly) the denx kernel was
the closest one to the Montavista kernel used/suggested by Xilinx.
See steps 8 to 10 where the BSP are generated by EDK and copied into
the sources.  If those BSPs differ too much from the kernel version
you are trying, I suppose you'll have to (try to) fix too many errors.
But I don't know for which kernel the current EDK version generates
BSPs.

HTH,

Klaas

Re: [Xenomai-help] Xenomai and Virtex II Pro (PPC405)

[Joachim Meyer]

> The RTAI skin is kernel-space only so far, and it doesn't implement to
> full set of RTAI services - which would be a lot of work to do...
> 
> Take a look at the Native API of Xenomai. It is quite similar to RTAI,
> but you may find it way more consistent. Unless there is a hard
> requirement to keep the OS layer of that frame work at RTAI level,
> adopting to Native services should be the preferred way to go.
> 
> Jan

Thanks for your Infos. I'll keep in mind.
Greez
Joachim
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