[LARTC] API using cbq / tc ?

[LARTC] API using cbq / tc ?

[Srikanth]

Hi! 

I'm developing some API functions using cbq / tc (for GUI based BW Management)

By two approches i can do this,

1. By excuting cbq.init script (which is executable) using some system calls 
like execv etc.	
Are there any problems by doing so?

OR 

2. Directly using iproute2/tc source code with slight modifications.

So, Which option is better?

Are there any other solutions, please welcome.

thanks & regards,
Srikanth. 


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RE: [LARTC] API using cbq / tc ?

[S Mohan]

First is better as it will not involve changing package if tc changes or
some changes are made to tc. Is your GUI X based or web based?

Mohan

-----Original Message-----
From: lartc-admin@mailman.ds9a.nl [mailto:lartc-admin@mailman.ds9a.nl]
On Behalf Of Srikanth
Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 6:38 PM
To: lartc@mailman.ds9a.nl
Cc: stef.coene@docum.org
Subject: [LARTC] API using cbq / tc ?


Hi! 

I'm developing some API functions using cbq / tc (for GUI based BW
Management)

By two approches i can do this,

1. By excuting cbq.init script (which is executable) using some system
calls 
like execv etc.	
Are there any problems by doing so?

OR 

2. Directly using iproute2/tc source code with slight modifications.

So, Which option is better?

Are there any other solutions, please welcome.

thanks & regards,
Srikanth. 


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Re: [LARTC] API using cbq / tc ?

[Srikanth]

Our GUI developers are using X based (Qt) only, not web based. 

thanks & reg,
Srikanth.


On Friday 07 February 2003 07:46 am, you wrote:
> First is better as it will not involve changing package if tc changes or
> some changes are made to tc. Is your GUI X based or web based?
>
> Mohan
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: lartc-admin@mailman.ds9a.nl [mailto:lartc-admin@mailman.ds9a.nl]
> On Behalf Of Srikanth
> Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 6:38 PM
> To: lartc@mailman.ds9a.nl
> Cc: stef.coene@docum.org
> Subject: [LARTC] API using cbq / tc ?
>
>
> Hi!
>
> I'm developing some API functions using cbq / tc (for GUI based BW
> Management)
>
> By two approches i can do this,
>
> 1. By excuting cbq.init script (which is executable) using some system
> calls
> like execv etc.
> Are there any problems by doing so?
>
> OR
>
> 2. Directly using iproute2/tc source code with slight modifications.
>
> So, Which option is better?
>
> Are there any other solutions, please welcome.
>
> thanks & regards,
> Srikanth.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> LARTC mailing list / LARTC@mailman.ds9a.nl
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Re: [LARTC] API using cbq / tc ?

[Stef Coene]

On Friday 07 February 2003 05:25, Srikanth wrote:
> Our GUI developers are using X based (Qt) only, not web based.
I prefer web based.  Most of the time, the qos is installed on a router with 
no display and a limit connection (for instance behind a firewall).  So if 
you have a https server, you can configure it without problems.  For a qt 
based application, you need a monitor or you have to login and use a remove 
display.  This is more complicated (and less secure) then a web based gui.
But if you have good GUI developers, they can create a set of library's so you 
can use different front ends to access these library's.  So people can choose 
how to configure the box.

Just wondering,  will the software be released under the GPL ?

Stef

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Re: [LARTC] API using cbq / tc ?

[Ming-Ching Tiew]

I am just written ( I won't say completed !) a 
program which performs traffic read operation. 
It is a VB client program talking to a C TCP 
socket server. Everything is based on scripting, 
so it could be flaky right now, so you might 
have to be patient :-) The server has been tested
running on my Linux 2.4.20 machine.

The VB GUI program charts the traffic data on per
interface and per-class/qdisc basis. It also
displays the class/qdisc relationship in a 
hierarchical (GUI) tree diagram. The intention is
for you to determine how effective is your 
class/qdisc.

The server is pure C ( without any other fancy 
libraries ) to reduce the footprint because my
intention is to let it run on a floppy-based
NAT firewall/router, which I have tested against
floppyfw ( http://www.zelow.no/floppyfw/ ).

I will be enhancing it in the future to allow
service-by-service traffic charting, based on
iptables' traffic counter.

Any interest parties could mail to me and we shall
see how thing goes.

Regards.

--- Stef Coene <stef.coene@docum.org> wrote:
> On Friday 07 February 2003 05:25, Srikanth wrote:
> > Our GUI developers are using X based (Qt) only,
> not web based.
> I prefer web based.  

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Re: [LARTC] API using cbq / tc ?

[Stef Coene]

On Saturday 08 February 2003 08:02, Ming-Ching Tiew wrote:
> I am just written ( I won't say completed !) a
> program which performs traffic read operation.
> It is a VB client program talking to a C TCP
> socket server. Everything is based on scripting,
> so it could be flaky right now, so you might
> have to be patient :-) The server has been tested
> running on my Linux 2.4.20 machine.
>
> The VB GUI program charts the traffic data on per
> interface and per-class/qdisc basis. It also
> displays the class/qdisc relationship in a
> hierarchical (GUI) tree diagram. The intention is
> for you to determine how effective is your
> class/qdisc.
>
> The server is pure C ( without any other fancy
> libraries ) to reduce the footprint because my
> intention is to let it run on a floppy-based
> NAT firewall/router, which I have tested against
> floppyfw ( http://www.zelow.no/floppyfw/ ).
>
> I will be enhancing it in the future to allow
> service-by-service traffic charting, based on
> iptables' traffic counter.
>
> Any interest parties could mail to me and we shall
> see how thing goes.
I found this :
http://www.hav.com/java/scroll/
It's in java.  I tested it with some browsers and platforms and it works 
great.  The java class is not so difficult.  I contacted the original author 
for permission to use his java class, but I didn't received an answer.
I used his java class and made my own version so I could display class and 
qdiscs stats.  It works great.  But I can't publish it as long as I don't 
know if I may use it.
The data is delivered with a cgi-bin prog so you don't need an extra daemon.  
And the java class is cross-platform so you can see it in allmost any 
web-browser that supports java.

Stef

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Re: [LARTC] API using cbq / tc ?

[Ming-Ching Tiew]

Good to know that there are other options available !
:-) 

Anyway, I have upload my files to the following web
site, locations as follows :-

http://geocities.com/mctiew/ffw/ffwgrapher0.88.zip
http://geocities.com/mctiew/ffw/fwstat-0.88.tar.gz

The first is the VB program and the later is
the server program.

The server program should be fairly plug-and-play.
The client program too. However, because I am not
using an installer( the installer package is 12MB,
so I refused to used it ! ), you may find missing
files which causes it unable to run.

Regards. 
--- Stef Coene <stef.coene@docum.org> wrote:
> On Saturday 08 February 2003 08:02, Ming-Ching Tiew
> wrote:
> > Any interest parties could mail to me and we shall
> > see how thing goes.
> I found this :
> http://www.hav.com/java/scroll/
> It's in java.  
> And the java class is cross-platform so you can see
> it in allmost any 
> web-browser that supports java.
> 


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Re: [LARTC] API using cbq / tc ?

[Stef Coene]

On Saturday 08 February 2003 14:04, Ming-Ching Tiew wrote:
> Good to know that there are other options available !
> :-)
To be honest, I prefer the java approach.  I have no windows installed, so I 
can't run your VB prog.  But java is available on allmost all platform.  So 
you don't have to install extra software to see the graphs.
And you can get the data from a http sever so you don't an extra daemon on 
your router/shaper.

> Anyway, I have upload my files to the following web
> site, locations as follows :-
>
> http://geocities.com/mctiew/ffw/ffwgrapher0.88.zip
> http://geocities.com/mctiew/ffw/fwstat-0.88.tar.gz
>
> The first is the VB program and the later is
> the server program.
>
> The server program should be fairly plug-and-play.
> The client program too. However, because I am not
> using an installer( the installer package is 12MB,
> so I refused to used it ! ), you may find missing
> files which causes it unable to run.

Stef

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Re: [LARTC] API using cbq / tc ?

[Ming-Ching Tiew]

Haha life is a trade off between want you actually
want and what you actually get. I like the java
approach too but it will take me donky years
to complete the same functionalities, and you might
say it is due to my incompetencies. LOL

There are other considerations which I have consider
too. Small footprint is a No 1 item here. The
floppy-based firewall/nat router can't house a
http server anyway, so a small footprint daemon
is needed. Eventually you are talking about something
like a MRTG approach where the daemon collecs raw 
data and handle over to MRTG on  another computer 
for html data processing/presentation.

If anyone like this approach, he could enhance the
fwstat.pl (based aleady in the package )to provide
qdisc/class traffic to MRTG. Feel free and do it ! 

Rgds.
--- Stef Coene <stef.coene@docum.org> wrote:
> On Saturday 08 February 2003 14:04, Ming-Ching Tiew
> wrote:
> > Good to know that there are other options
> available !
> > :-)
> To be honest, I prefer the java approach.  I have no
> windows installed, so I 
> can't run your VB prog.  But java is available on
> allmost all platform.  So 
> you don't have to install extra software to see the
> graphs.
> And you can get the data from a http sever so you
> don't an extra daemon on 
> your router/shaper.
> 


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Re: [LARTC] API using cbq / tc ?

[Henry Yen]

On Sat, Feb 08, 2003 at 07:45:35AM -0800, Ming-Ching Tiew wrote:
> There are other considerations which I have consider
> too. Small footprint is a No 1 item here. The
> floppy-based firewall/nat router can't house a
> http server anyway, so a small footprint daemon

off on a tangent here, but there are several small/mini/micro/tiny
webservers.  i built mini-httpd, static, gzipped at under 250k.
moreover, (unfortunately) there are minimally functional webservers
written in awk and shellscript, both of which are on several
single-floppy distro's.  also, nowadays, the single-floppy
distro's can often be substituted with cd-rom boot systems (demolinux,
knoppix, roll-your-own), due to the more general availability
and affordability of cd-rom writers.  there are probably few,
if any, space issues with a cd-rom boot system.

-- 
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Senior Systems Programmer                       Hicksville, New York
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Re: [LARTC] API using cbq / tc ?

[Stef Coene]

On Sunday 09 February 2003 04:45, Ming-Ching Tiew wrote:
> Haha life is a trade off between want you actually
> want and what you actually get. I like the java
> approach too but it will take me donky years
> to complete the same functionalities, and you might
> say it is due to my incompetencies. LOL
:)
But I like the freedom.  You can do something, I can do something, and we are 
al happy.  But I hope mine solution will be better :)  (without competion 
there is no innovation)

> There are other considerations which I have consider
> too. Small footprint is a No 1 item here. The
> floppy-based firewall/nat router can't house a
> http server anyway, so a small footprint daemon
> is needed. Eventually you are talking about something
> like a MRTG approach where the daemon collecs raw
> data and handle over to MRTG on  another computer
> for html data processing/presentation.
>
> If anyone like this approach, he could enhance the
> fwstat.pl (based aleady in the package )to provide
> qdisc/class traffic to MRTG. Feel free and do it !
I already did.  But that gives only longterm statistics.  For real time 
statistics, you need the data directly from the router.  

I prefer a cross-platform solution.  Even if it means that you loose some 
functionality.  It's possible that VB is better/handier then java, but I go 
for java.

Stef

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Re: [LARTC] API using cbq / tc ?

[mingching.tiew]

Cool. As an MRTG idiot, I am going to ask this question,
why can't it provide realtime stats ? You mean MRTG 
does not chart real time graphs ?


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Stef Coene" <stef.coene@docum.org>
To: "Ming-Ching Tiew" <mctiew@yahoo.com>; <lartc@mailman.ds9a.nl>
Sent: Sunday, February 09, 2003 9:39 PM
Subject: Re: [LARTC] API using cbq / tc ?


> >
> > If anyone like this approach, he could enhance the
> > fwstat.pl (based aleady in the package )to provide
> > qdisc/class traffic to MRTG. Feel free and do it !
> I already did.  But that gives only longterm statistics.  For real time 
> statistics, you need the data directly from the router.  
> 
>


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Re: [LARTC] API using cbq / tc ?

[Stef Coene]

On Monday 10 February 2003 02:58, mingching.tiew@redtone.com wrote:
> Cool. As an MRTG idiot, I am going to ask this question,
> why can't it provide realtime stats ? You mean MRTG
> does not chart real time graphs ?
Mrtg is not designed for that.  Mrtg uses rrdtool to generate the graphs.
You give the rrdtool each 5 minutes a number.  This number is stored in a rrd 
file.  And you can generate a graph with the data in the rrd file.

So it's for long-term graphing.  If you want to do real time graphing, you 
need new data each second.  And you need to generate the graph on the client 
side so you don't need to load each second a new graph from the server.


Stef

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Re: [LARTC] API using cbq / tc ?

[Jay Wineinger]

That isnt completely accurate.  rrdtool can take data at any interval, you
just need to specify it when you create the rrd file.  Personally, I get
snmp data on 2 interfaces every 10 seconds and store them in two rrd files,
and I have a php page that generates new graphs every time I view them (I
migrated away from mrtg completely and just use rrd to store and graph).
This was, the only consistent load on the box is from the snmp gathering
(which is a local connection).  The graph script runs only once every time
the page is viewed, so the load is quite low there. however, I do agree that
doing it all on the client would be better, but for a distributed viewing, a
webpage makes a nice interface.

jay

----- Original Message -----
From: "Stef Coene" <stef.coene@docum.org>
To: <mingching.tiew@redtone.com>; <lartc@mailman.ds9a.nl>
Sent: Monday, February 10, 2003 3:59 AM
Subject: Re: [LARTC] API using cbq / tc ?


> On Monday 10 February 2003 02:58, mingching.tiew@redtone.com wrote:
> > Cool. As an MRTG idiot, I am going to ask this question,
> > why can't it provide realtime stats ? You mean MRTG
> > does not chart real time graphs ?
> Mrtg is not designed for that.  Mrtg uses rrdtool to generate the graphs.
> You give the rrdtool each 5 minutes a number.  This number is stored in a
rrd
> file.  And you can generate a graph with the data in the rrd file.
>
> So it's for long-term graphing.  If you want to do real time graphing, you
> need new data each second.  And you need to generate the graph on the
client
> side so you don't need to load each second a new graph from the server.
>


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Re: [LARTC] API using cbq / tc ?

[Stef Coene]

On Monday 10 February 2003 19:01, Jay Wineinger wrote:
> That isnt completely accurate.  rrdtool can take data at any interval, you
> just need to specify it when you create the rrd file.  Personally, I get
> snmp data on 2 interfaces every 10 seconds and store them in two rrd files,
> and I have a php page that generates new graphs every time I view them (I
> migrated away from mrtg completely and just use rrd to store and graph).
> This was, the only consistent load on the box is from the snmp gathering
> (which is a local connection).  The graph script runs only once every time
> the page is viewed, so the load is quite low there. however, I do agree
> that doing it all on the client would be better, but for a distributed
> viewing, a webpage makes a nice interface.
Still, rrdtool is not made for real time graphing.  A 10 sec interval is not 
real-time.  For me, real-time is now.  And for that you need something that 
can graph the files locally like java or vb.

Stef

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Re: [LARTC] API using cbq / tc ?

[Martin Devera]

> > that doing it all on the client would be better, but for a distributed
> > viewing, a webpage makes a nice interface.
> Still, rrdtool is not made for real time graphing.  A 10 sec interval is not
> real-time.  For me, real-time is now.  And for that you need something that
> can graph the files locally like java or vb.

Hmm, typicaly I agree with Stef but here I'm not sure.
Speed is derivative of transfered byte count and as such
it is dependent on time. Because we can't compute perfect
derivative we have to use difference - and it is always
computed as average of some time interval (30sec in HTB).
So if you use 5s interval in rrd it seems ok for me (it
is what i plan to do here).

just by opinion :)

devik

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Re: [LARTC] API using cbq / tc ?

[Stef Coene]

On Tuesday 11 February 2003 17:59, Martin Devera wrote:
> > > that doing it all on the client would be better, but for a distributed
> > > viewing, a webpage makes a nice interface.
> >
> > Still, rrdtool is not made for real time graphing.  A 10 sec interval is
> > not real-time.  For me, real-time is now.  And for that you need
> > something that can graph the files locally like java or vb.
>
> Hmm, typicaly I agree with Stef but here I'm not sure.
> Speed is derivative of transfered byte count and as such
> it is dependent on time. Because we can't compute perfect
> derivative we have to use difference - and it is always
> computed as average of some time interval (30sec in HTB).
> So if you use 5s interval in rrd it seems ok for me (it
> is what i plan to do here).
If you receive an update each second, you have the feeling it's realtime.  
It's slow enough to understand the data and it's fast enough to feel it as 
real-time.  It's also fast enought that you get new data before you are tired 
to look at the old data.

For other people, real time can be 5 seconds   It depends on how much beer 
they had :)

Stef

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Re: [LARTC] API using cbq / tc ?

[devik]

> > So if you use 5s interval in rrd it seems ok for me (it
> > is what i plan to do here).
> If you receive an update each second, you have the feeling it's realtime.
> It's slow enough to understand the data and it's fast enough to feel it as
> real-time.  It's also fast enought that you get new data before you are tired
> to look at the old data.

hmm :) really depends on angle of view .. From my experience
("btw" tool) 1sec is too fast because I see results like:
30kbit, 28, 10, 33,15,35 .... I can see every packet burst
and thus my brain is not good enough to compute average from it
on fly. So I use 10sec moving average to have something senseful.

On other side, there are two time variables :
- show rate
- EWMA time constant

I agree that you can have time constant 30sec and
sampling/show rate 1sec. Then you get smooth and fast
updates :)
Still you can use rrd because it is hierarchical - you
can have last minute in secs resolution, then last hour
in minutes resolution etc...

devik

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Re: [LARTC] API using cbq / tc ?

[Stef Coene]

On Wednesday 12 February 2003 09:29, devik wrote:
> > > So if you use 5s interval in rrd it seems ok for me (it
> > > is what i plan to do here).
> >
> > If you receive an update each second, you have the feeling it's realtime.
> > It's slow enough to understand the data and it's fast enough to feel it
> > as real-time.  It's also fast enought that you get new data before you
> > are tired to look at the old data.
>
> hmm :) really depends on angle of view .. From my experience
> ("btw" tool) 1sec is too fast because I see results like:
> 30kbit, 28, 10, 33,15,35 .... I can see every packet burst
> and thus my brain is not good enough to compute average from it
> on fly. So I use 10sec moving average to have something senseful.
>
> On other side, there are two time variables :
> - show rate
> - EWMA time constant
>
> I agree that you can have time constant 30sec and
> sampling/show rate 1sec. Then you get smooth and fast
> updates :)
> Still you can use rrd because it is hierarchical - you
> can have last minute in secs resolution, then last hour
> in minutes resolution etc...
Storing the value is no problem, but showing.  If don't think it's such a good 
idea to refresh a webpage and relaod (and draw) the graphs on it each second.  
So rrd for long term overview, java (of VB) for real time overview.

Stef

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Re: [LARTC] API using cbq / tc ?

[devik]

> > in minutes resolution etc...
> Storing the value is no problem, but showing.  If don't think it's such a good
> idea to refresh a webpage and relaod (and draw) the graphs on it each second.
> So rrd for long term overview, java (of VB) for real time overview.

ah now I finally see your reason :) You want stats to
move in realtime in your www page.
So yes then ok :-)

devik

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Re: [LARTC] API using cbq / tc ?

[mingching.tiew]

I know MRTG runs perl script to keep things working for all
platforms. My question is, does MRTG run C program ?
I last work on perl script some 5 years ago, almost forgotten
everything about perl script.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Stef Coene" <stef.coene@docum.org>
To: <mingching.tiew@redtone.com>; <lartc@mailman.ds9a.nl>
Sent: Monday, February 10, 2003 4:59 PM
Subject: Re: [LARTC] API using cbq / tc ?


> On Monday 10 February 2003 02:58, mingching.tiew@redtone.com wrote:
> > Cool. As an MRTG idiot, I am going to ask this question,
> > why can't it provide realtime stats ? You mean MRTG
> > does not chart real time graphs ?
> Mrtg is not designed for that.  Mrtg uses rrdtool to generate the graphs.
> You give the rrdtool each 5 minutes a number.  This number is stored in a
rrd
> file.  And you can generate a graph with the data in the rrd file.
>



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Re: [LARTC] API using cbq / tc ?

[Stef Coene]

On Thursday 13 February 2003 11:36, mingching.tiew@redtone.com wrote:
> I know MRTG runs perl script to keep things working for all
> platforms. My question is, does MRTG run C program ?
> I last work on perl script some 5 years ago, almost forgotten
> everything about perl script.
Perl is easy.  Download some scripts (like mine from docum.org, or larrd, or 
mrtg).  The rrdtool tool is simple if you adapt an existing sript so you 
don't have to bother for the options.
Or run rrdtool from the command line.

Stef

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Stef Coene" <stef.coene@docum.org>
> To: <mingching.tiew@redtone.com>; <lartc@mailman.ds9a.nl>
> Sent: Monday, February 10, 2003 4:59 PM
> Subject: Re: [LARTC] API using cbq / tc ?
>
> > On Monday 10 February 2003 02:58, mingching.tiew@redtone.com wrote:
> > > Cool. As an MRTG idiot, I am going to ask this question,
> > > why can't it provide realtime stats ? You mean MRTG
> > > does not chart real time graphs ?
> >
> > Mrtg is not designed for that.  Mrtg uses rrdtool to generate the graphs.
> > You give the rrdtool each 5 minutes a number.  This number is stored in a
>
> rrd
>
> > file.  And you can generate a graph with the data in the rrd file.
>
> _______________________________________________
> LARTC mailing list / LARTC@mailman.ds9a.nl
> http://mailman.ds9a.nl/mailman/listinfo/lartc HOWTO: http://lartc.org/

-- 

stef.coene@docum.org
 "Using Linux as bandwidth manager"
     http://www.docum.org/
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Re: [LARTC] API using cbq / tc ?

[Stef Coene]

On Thursday 13 February 2003 09:30, devik wrote:
> > > in minutes resolution etc...
> >
> > Storing the value is no problem, but showing.  If don't think it's such a
> > good idea to refresh a webpage and relaod (and draw) the graphs on it
> > each second. So rrd for long term overview, java (of VB) for real time
> > overview.
>
> ah now I finally see your reason :) You want stats to
> move in realtime in your www page.
> So yes then ok :-)
Pff, it took a long thread to explain that to you.  I think we can close this 
thread now, or do you have an other suggestion?

Stef

-- 

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 "Using Linux as bandwidth manager"
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Re: [LARTC] API using cbq / tc ?

[mingching.tiew]

I have yet uploaded fwstat-0.89 to

  http://www.geocities.com/mctiew/ffw/fwstat-0.89.tgz

This version of fwstat supports collection and charting of tc class/qdisc
and
iptables firewall rules.

A) For 'floppyfw', it is plug and play. Absolutely no configuration
     needed. Just copy 'fwstatp.bz2' and 'post-fwstatp.ini' into /packages.

B) For other Linux Firewall/QoS systems, you could setup similar things by
    editing post-fwstatp.ini.

B) For the Linux MRTG station, you setup MRTG,  fwstat.cfg and mrtg.cfg.

C) For Windows, use FFWGrapher.exe, downloadable from

    http://www.geocities.com/mctiew/ffw/ffwgrapher0.88.zip


-------------------------------fwstat-cfg example-------------------
# this sample configuration collects 8 different traffic data from fwtat
server 192.168.0.19
port 50000
interfaces lo0 eth0 eth1 ppp0
eth1 rx
eth1 tx
eth0 tx
ppp0 tx
eth1 class cbq 1:
eth0 qdisc htb 1:
iptables FORWARD tcp dpt:80
iptables PREROUTING tcp dpt:80 to:192.168.0.3:80



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