* Fedora Core 2 policy source @ 2004-06-15 21:07 Kratzer, James R. 2004-06-15 23:26 ` Fedora Core 2 setools RPM John D. Ramsdell 2004-06-15 23:33 ` Fedora Core 2 policy source John D. Ramsdell 0 siblings, 2 replies; 29+ messages in thread From: Kratzer, James R. @ 2004-06-15 21:07 UTC (permalink / raw) To: SE Linux Mail List (E-mail) Where are the source policy files for Fedora Core 2? The source directory "/etc/security/selinux/src/policy" appears to be missing from the install. Thanks. -- This message was distributed to subscribers of the selinux mailing list. If you no longer wish to subscribe, send mail to majordomo@tycho.nsa.gov with the words "unsubscribe selinux" without quotes as the message. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread
* Fedora Core 2 setools RPM 2004-06-15 21:07 Fedora Core 2 policy source Kratzer, James R. @ 2004-06-15 23:26 ` John D. Ramsdell 2004-06-16 13:37 ` Stephen Smalley 2004-06-17 15:36 ` Fedora Core 2 setools RPM Karl MacMillan 2004-06-15 23:33 ` Fedora Core 2 policy source John D. Ramsdell 1 sibling, 2 replies; 29+ messages in thread From: John D. Ramsdell @ 2004-06-15 23:26 UTC (permalink / raw) To: selinux I notice the RPM for setools fails to install libapol.a into /usr/lib, and fails to install the header files needed to use the library into /usr/include/libapol. Is there is a setools-devel RPM I don't know about? John -- This message was distributed to subscribers of the selinux mailing list. If you no longer wish to subscribe, send mail to majordomo@tycho.nsa.gov with the words "unsubscribe selinux" without quotes as the message. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread
* Re: Fedora Core 2 setools RPM 2004-06-15 23:26 ` Fedora Core 2 setools RPM John D. Ramsdell @ 2004-06-16 13:37 ` Stephen Smalley 2004-06-16 16:58 ` Daniel J Walsh 2004-06-17 15:36 ` Fedora Core 2 setools RPM Karl MacMillan 1 sibling, 1 reply; 29+ messages in thread From: Stephen Smalley @ 2004-06-16 13:37 UTC (permalink / raw) To: John D. Ramsdell; +Cc: selinux, selinux-dev, Daniel J Walsh On Tue, 2004-06-15 at 19:26, John D. Ramsdell wrote: > I notice the RPM for setools fails to install libapol.a into /usr/lib, > and fails to install the header files needed to use the library into > /usr/include/libapol. Is there is a setools-devel RPM I don't know > about? Not AFAIK, but I agree it would be a good idea. In fact, it would be nice for there to be a libapol RPM with a shared apol library and a libapol-devel RPM with a static library and headers for use by third party tools separate from setools. -- Stephen Smalley <sds@epoch.ncsc.mil> National Security Agency -- This message was distributed to subscribers of the selinux mailing list. If you no longer wish to subscribe, send mail to majordomo@tycho.nsa.gov with the words "unsubscribe selinux" without quotes as the message. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread
* Re: Fedora Core 2 setools RPM 2004-06-16 13:37 ` Stephen Smalley @ 2004-06-16 16:58 ` Daniel J Walsh 2004-06-17 9:47 ` SE Linux enhanced strace for Fedora Core 2 John D. Ramsdell 0 siblings, 1 reply; 29+ messages in thread From: Daniel J Walsh @ 2004-06-16 16:58 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Stephen Smalley; +Cc: John D. Ramsdell, selinux, selinux-dev Stephen Smalley wrote: >On Tue, 2004-06-15 at 19:26, John D. Ramsdell wrote: > > >>I notice the RPM for setools fails to install libapol.a into /usr/lib, >>and fails to install the header files needed to use the library into >>/usr/include/libapol. Is there is a setools-devel RPM I don't know >>about? >> >> > >Not AFAIK, but I agree it would be a good idea. In fact, it would be >nice for there to be a libapol RPM with a shared apol library and a >libapol-devel RPM with a static library and headers for use by third >party tools separate from setools. > > > I attempted to do this a while ago but, it really needs to be separated out by tresys. Dan -- This message was distributed to subscribers of the selinux mailing list. If you no longer wish to subscribe, send mail to majordomo@tycho.nsa.gov with the words "unsubscribe selinux" without quotes as the message. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread
* SE Linux enhanced strace for Fedora Core 2 2004-06-16 16:58 ` Daniel J Walsh @ 2004-06-17 9:47 ` John D. Ramsdell 0 siblings, 0 replies; 29+ messages in thread From: John D. Ramsdell @ 2004-06-17 9:47 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Daniel J Walsh; +Cc: selinux I discovered the sources that make up the distribution of strace I sent out earlier fail to compile in Fedora Core 2. Recall that this distribution builds a version of strace that optionally prints the security context of some of a system call's arguments. The modified strace for Fedora Core 2 is available here: http://simp.mitre.org/selinux John -- This message was distributed to subscribers of the selinux mailing list. If you no longer wish to subscribe, send mail to majordomo@tycho.nsa.gov with the words "unsubscribe selinux" without quotes as the message. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread
* RE: Fedora Core 2 setools RPM 2004-06-15 23:26 ` Fedora Core 2 setools RPM John D. Ramsdell 2004-06-16 13:37 ` Stephen Smalley @ 2004-06-17 15:36 ` Karl MacMillan 2004-06-17 15:58 ` Stephen Smalley 2004-06-17 18:31 ` John D. Ramsdell 1 sibling, 2 replies; 29+ messages in thread From: Karl MacMillan @ 2004-06-17 15:36 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 'John D. Ramsdell', selinux I am not aware of an setools-devel rpm that installs the include files and libapol.a. I think at one point the setools rpms that Dan Walsh was making for Redhat/Fedora installed these files, but the current rpms for Fedora do not. In general, we have not spent many resources addressing the use of libapol outside of setools. Because of this, we haven't added a target to install the headers and library. The simplest thing to do is to download our source and work within the setools directory. Otherwise, it is easy to write an install target if you want. Karl Karl MacMillan Tresys Technology http://www.tresys.com (410)290-1411 ext 134 > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-selinux@tycho.nsa.gov [mailto:owner-selinux@tycho.nsa.gov] On > Behalf Of John D. Ramsdell > Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2004 7:26 PM > To: selinux@tycho.nsa.gov > Subject: Fedora Core 2 setools RPM > > I notice the RPM for setools fails to install libapol.a into /usr/lib, > and fails to install the header files needed to use the library into > /usr/include/libapol. Is there is a setools-devel RPM I don't know > about? > > John > > -- > This message was distributed to subscribers of the selinux mailing list. > If you no longer wish to subscribe, send mail to majordomo@tycho.nsa.gov > with > the words "unsubscribe selinux" without quotes as the message. -- This message was distributed to subscribers of the selinux mailing list. If you no longer wish to subscribe, send mail to majordomo@tycho.nsa.gov with the words "unsubscribe selinux" without quotes as the message. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread
* RE: Fedora Core 2 setools RPM 2004-06-17 15:36 ` Fedora Core 2 setools RPM Karl MacMillan @ 2004-06-17 15:58 ` Stephen Smalley 2004-06-17 18:47 ` Karl MacMillan 2004-06-18 13:09 ` John D. Ramsdell 2004-06-17 18:31 ` John D. Ramsdell 1 sibling, 2 replies; 29+ messages in thread From: Stephen Smalley @ 2004-06-17 15:58 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Karl MacMillan; +Cc: 'John D. Ramsdell', selinux On Thu, 2004-06-17 at 11:36, Karl MacMillan wrote: > I am not aware of an setools-devel rpm that installs the include files and > libapol.a. I think at one point the setools rpms that Dan Walsh was making > for Redhat/Fedora installed these files, but the current rpms for Fedora do > not. > > In general, we have not spent many resources addressing the use of libapol > outside of setools. Because of this, we haven't added a target to install > the headers and library. The simplest thing to do is to download our source > and work within the setools directory. Otherwise, it is easy to write an > install target if you want. I think it would be helpful for libapol to be available for third party packages to encourage other people working on policy tools to re-use and (if necessary) contribute extensions back to libapol rather than reinventing the wheel each time. I'd also think you would want both shared and static libraries, and have most of the tools dynamically linked against the shared library. -- Stephen Smalley <sds@epoch.ncsc.mil> National Security Agency -- This message was distributed to subscribers of the selinux mailing list. If you no longer wish to subscribe, send mail to majordomo@tycho.nsa.gov with the words "unsubscribe selinux" without quotes as the message. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread
* RE: Fedora Core 2 setools RPM 2004-06-17 15:58 ` Stephen Smalley @ 2004-06-17 18:47 ` Karl MacMillan 2004-06-18 13:00 ` John D. Ramsdell 2004-06-18 13:09 ` John D. Ramsdell 1 sibling, 1 reply; 29+ messages in thread From: Karl MacMillan @ 2004-06-17 18:47 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 'Stephen Smalley'; +Cc: 'John D. Ramsdell', selinux > -----Original Message----- > From: Stephen Smalley [mailto:sds@epoch.ncsc.mil] > > I think it would be helpful for libapol to be available for third party > packages to encourage other people working on policy tools to re-use and > (if necessary) contribute extensions back to libapol rather than > reinventing the wheel each time. I'd also think you would want both > shared and static libraries, and have most of the tools dynamically > linked against the shared library. > Sure - like I said we just haven't put any energy into this. We would certainly like to see people using our libraries as much as possible as they provide a lot of functionality that has taken a long time to develop. We will be putting an interim release out soon and will include the installation of the include files and libraries (shared and static). Karl > -- > Stephen Smalley <sds@epoch.ncsc.mil> > National Security Agency -- This message was distributed to subscribers of the selinux mailing list. If you no longer wish to subscribe, send mail to majordomo@tycho.nsa.gov with the words "unsubscribe selinux" without quotes as the message. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread
* Re: Fedora Core 2 setools RPM 2004-06-17 18:47 ` Karl MacMillan @ 2004-06-18 13:00 ` John D. Ramsdell 2004-06-18 14:13 ` Stephen Smalley 0 siblings, 1 reply; 29+ messages in thread From: John D. Ramsdell @ 2004-06-18 13:00 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Karl MacMillan; +Cc: selinux "Karl MacMillan" <kmacmillan@tresys.com> writes: > ... We will be putting an interim release out soon and will include > the installation of the include files and libraries (shared and > static). Great news. I would greatly appreciate it if the libapol API includes access to CONSTRAIN statements in a policy file. I strongly suspect the API could then be used to provide slat all the information it needs to analyze a policy. I also noticed that it appears that none of the setools documentation tells users that your flow analysis ignores CONSTRAIN statements in a policy. I think users should know this fact. $ grep -i constrain */*.in docs-src/apol_help_text.in: You can use any regular expression to constrain the search. So $ -- This message was distributed to subscribers of the selinux mailing list. If you no longer wish to subscribe, send mail to majordomo@tycho.nsa.gov with the words "unsubscribe selinux" without quotes as the message. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread
* Re: Fedora Core 2 setools RPM 2004-06-18 13:00 ` John D. Ramsdell @ 2004-06-18 14:13 ` Stephen Smalley 2004-06-18 17:26 ` Joshua D. Guttman 0 siblings, 1 reply; 29+ messages in thread From: Stephen Smalley @ 2004-06-18 14:13 UTC (permalink / raw) To: John D. Ramsdell; +Cc: Karl MacMillan, selinux On Fri, 2004-06-18 at 09:00, John D. Ramsdell wrote: > Great news. I would greatly appreciate it if the libapol API includes > access to CONSTRAIN statements in a policy file. I strongly suspect > the API could then be used to provide slat all the information it > needs to analyze a policy. I would think that this would be something you (John) could contribute to libapol, as slat would be the first user of such information. > I also noticed that it appears that none of the setools documentation > tells users that your flow analysis ignores CONSTRAIN statements in a > policy. I think users should know this fact. The apol information flow analysis is for flow among types; hence, it is only natural for it to only consider the TE configuration. As a flow can only exist if allowed by the TE configuration, analysis of the TE configuration is sufficient to identify all flows. We've discussed that issue previously. -- Stephen Smalley <sds@epoch.ncsc.mil> National Security Agency -- This message was distributed to subscribers of the selinux mailing list. If you no longer wish to subscribe, send mail to majordomo@tycho.nsa.gov with the words "unsubscribe selinux" without quotes as the message. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread
* Re: Fedora Core 2 setools RPM 2004-06-18 14:13 ` Stephen Smalley @ 2004-06-18 17:26 ` Joshua D. Guttman 2004-06-18 17:51 ` Stephen Smalley 0 siblings, 1 reply; 29+ messages in thread From: Joshua D. Guttman @ 2004-06-18 17:26 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Stephen Smalley Cc: John D. Ramsdell, Karl MacMillan, selinux, Joshua D. Guttman, Amy L. Herzog Stephen Smalley <sds@epoch.ncsc.mil> writes: > > I also noticed that it appears that none of the setools documentation > > tells users that your flow analysis ignores CONSTRAIN statements in a > > policy. I think users should know this fact. > > The apol information flow analysis is for flow among types; hence, > it is only natural for it to only consider the TE configuration. > As a flow can only exist if allowed by the TE configuration, > analysis of the TE configuration is sufficient to identify all > flows. May I raise a small question here? I can see that analysis of the TE configuration is sufficient to identify a set of flows that includes all the possible flows among security contexts. But if one wants more exact information about the set of flows among security contexts that are permitted by a particular configuration, wouldn't one need to consider any constraints? I take it that "flow among types" is a bit less precise than "flow among security contexts". Presumably there's flow from t_1 to t_2 if there exist any u_1,r_1 and u_2,r_2 such that there's flow u_1:r_1:t_1 --> u_2:r_2:t_2. Is this an accurate interpretation? I think it would be great if libapol became a common access point for many analysis methods to get information about the facts of the configuration. This should be easier if we have an agreement on all the info that could be relevant. Joshua -- Joshua D. Guttman <guttman@mitre.org> MITRE, Mail Stop S119 Office: +1 781 271 2654 202 Burlington Rd. Fax: +1 781 271 8953 Bedford, MA 01730-1420 USA Cell: +1 781 526 5713 -- This message was distributed to subscribers of the selinux mailing list. If you no longer wish to subscribe, send mail to majordomo@tycho.nsa.gov with the words "unsubscribe selinux" without quotes as the message. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread
* Re: Fedora Core 2 setools RPM 2004-06-18 17:26 ` Joshua D. Guttman @ 2004-06-18 17:51 ` Stephen Smalley 2004-06-18 18:18 ` Joshua D. Guttman 0 siblings, 1 reply; 29+ messages in thread From: Stephen Smalley @ 2004-06-18 17:51 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Joshua D. Guttman disp: current Cc: John D. Ramsdell, Karl MacMillan, selinux, Amy L Herzog On Fri, 2004-06-18 at 13:26, Joshua D. Guttman wrote: > I can see that analysis of the TE configuration is sufficient to > identify a set of flows that includes all the possible flows among > security contexts. But if one wants more exact information about the > set of flows among security contexts that are permitted by a > particular configuration, wouldn't one need to consider any > constraints? User identity and role seem largely irrelevant when it comes to analyzing information flow in the system; that is essentially controlled by the TE policy (and if MLS were enabled, by their combination). At most, I would incorporate constraints and other factors (e.g. role allow rules) as a refinement _after_ determining the set of flows based on types; constructing a complete graph among entire security contexts seems costly and unnecessary. And I don't think you want user identity in the picture at all, as it just adds noise. > I take it that "flow among types" is a bit less precise than "flow > among security contexts". Presumably there's flow from t_1 to t_2 if > there exist any u_1,r_1 and u_2,r_2 such that there's flow > > u_1:r_1:t_1 --> u_2:r_2:t_2. > > Is this an accurate interpretation? If there is a flow from t_1 to t_2 in the TE policy, but no corresponding flow among contexts that include t_1 and t_2 in the policy, then that is likely a bug in the policy. -- Stephen Smalley <sds@epoch.ncsc.mil> National Security Agency -- This message was distributed to subscribers of the selinux mailing list. If you no longer wish to subscribe, send mail to majordomo@tycho.nsa.gov with the words "unsubscribe selinux" without quotes as the message. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread
* Re: Fedora Core 2 setools RPM 2004-06-18 17:51 ` Stephen Smalley @ 2004-06-18 18:18 ` Joshua D. Guttman 2004-06-18 18:43 ` Stephen Smalley 0 siblings, 1 reply; 29+ messages in thread From: Joshua D. Guttman @ 2004-06-18 18:18 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Stephen Smalley Cc: John D. Ramsdell, Karl MacMillan, selinux, Amy L Herzog, Joshua D. Guttman Stephen Smalley <sds@epoch.ncsc.mil> writes: > > > I take it that "flow among types" is a bit less precise than > > "flow among security contexts". Presumably there's flow from > > t_1 to t_2 if there exist any u_1,r_1 and u_2,r_2 such that > > there's flow > > > > u_1:r_1:t_1 --> u_2:r_2:t_2. > > > > Is this an accurate interpretation? > > If there is a flow from t_1 to t_2 in the TE policy, but no > corresponding flow among contexts that include t_1 and t_2 in the > policy, then that is likely a bug in the policy. Really? Consider the case r_1=r_2, where the role-type relation permits r_1 to execute with type t_1 but not with type t_2. If the arrow is created by an execve_secure, then isn't it important for the policy to prevent this event? Whereas with some powerful role r_3, permitted to execute with types t_1 and t_2, the event should be permitted. Are you saying that you don't think policy analysis should be sensitive to these questions? (Ever?) Or are you saying that you don't usually think of these events as "information flow" relations? If the latter, well OK, but maybe that's mainly a verbal point. There's certainly some causal interaction here, and presumably policy analysis needs to be able to talk about it using some terminology or other. > constructing a complete graph among entire security contexts seems > costly and unnecessary. Well, yes, if you do it the obvious way by enumerating all the (tupled) nodes and the arrows between them. However, lots of model checking work has invented representations under which conceptually you're working with that big graph, although the representation is vastly more compact because it's sensitive to uniformities in how the components of the nodes are related. I'm just trying to check that all the conceptually relevant info is available somehow, if we get our data via libapol. Joshua -- Joshua D. Guttman <guttman@mitre.org> MITRE, Mail Stop S119 Office: +1 781 271 2654 202 Burlington Rd. Fax: +1 781 271 8953 Bedford, MA 01730-1420 USA Cell: +1 781 526 5713 -- This message was distributed to subscribers of the selinux mailing list. If you no longer wish to subscribe, send mail to majordomo@tycho.nsa.gov with the words "unsubscribe selinux" without quotes as the message. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread
* Re: Fedora Core 2 setools RPM 2004-06-18 18:18 ` Joshua D. Guttman @ 2004-06-18 18:43 ` Stephen Smalley 2004-06-18 19:31 ` Joshua D. Guttman 2004-06-19 5:33 ` Russell Coker 0 siblings, 2 replies; 29+ messages in thread From: Stephen Smalley @ 2004-06-18 18:43 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Joshua D. Guttman disp: current Cc: John D. Ramsdell, Karl MacMillan, selinux, Amy L Herzog On Fri, 2004-06-18 at 14:18, Joshua D. Guttman wrote: > Really? Consider the case r_1=r_2, where the role-type relation > permits r_1 to execute with type t_1 but not with type t_2. If the > arrow is created by an execve_secure, then isn't it important for the > policy to prevent this event? > > Whereas with some powerful role r_3, permitted to execute with types > t_1 and t_2, the event should be permitted. A dangerous game, as I've noted previously. If the TE configuration allows a transition from t_1 to t_2, then even if r_1 is not allowed to enter t_2 by the role-type relation, a r_1:t_1 process may be able to influence a r_3:t_2 process due to the set of permissions granted between t_1 and t_2 to support the r_3:t_1 -> r_3:t_2 transition and subsequent operation. A more realistic case is newrole. user_t -> newrole_t -> sysadm_t is an allowed series of domain transitions, and the only thing preventing jdoe:user_r:user_t from using newrole to get to sysadm_t is the fact that jdoe is restricted to user_r and user_r is restricted to user_t by the kernel policy. But from an information flow perspective, you simply want to prove that user_t can only reach sysadm_t through specific gate domains like newrole_t. > Are you saying that you don't think policy analysis should be > sensitive to these questions? (Ever?) At most, as a refinement of a basic analysis of the TE configuration. -- Stephen Smalley <sds@epoch.ncsc.mil> National Security Agency -- This message was distributed to subscribers of the selinux mailing list. If you no longer wish to subscribe, send mail to majordomo@tycho.nsa.gov with the words "unsubscribe selinux" without quotes as the message. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread
* Re: Fedora Core 2 setools RPM 2004-06-18 18:43 ` Stephen Smalley @ 2004-06-18 19:31 ` Joshua D. Guttman 2004-06-18 20:09 ` Stephen Smalley 2004-06-21 13:14 ` Frank Mayer 2004-06-19 5:33 ` Russell Coker 1 sibling, 2 replies; 29+ messages in thread From: Joshua D. Guttman @ 2004-06-18 19:31 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Stephen Smalley Cc: John D. Ramsdell, Karl MacMillan, selinux, Amy L Herzog, Joshua D. Guttman Steve -- So in some sense the bottom line is that you think the type relations give the essential core of the policy info, and to a first approximation one can focus on that. Of course, it's still desirable to have access to the supplementary information (and an idea how to interpret it) so that the further refinement will eventually work out. A different point is that the main value added of slat is much more expressive security goals (even when restricted to the types info). You're not just talking about accessibility of a type to information flow from another, but also whether all the possible flows go through a desired gate type. And the key fact you mentioned at the end of your last message Stephen Smalley <sds@epoch.ncsc.mil> writes: > But from an information flow perspective, you simply want to prove > that user_t can only reach sysadm_t through specific gate domains > like newrole_t. is of this form: It's apparently not expressible as a simple information flow accessibility assertion. Cheers -- Joshua -- Joshua D. Guttman <guttman@mitre.org> MITRE, Mail Stop S119 Office: +1 781 271 2654 202 Burlington Rd. Fax: +1 781 271 8953 Bedford, MA 01730-1420 USA Cell: +1 781 526 5713 -- This message was distributed to subscribers of the selinux mailing list. If you no longer wish to subscribe, send mail to majordomo@tycho.nsa.gov with the words "unsubscribe selinux" without quotes as the message. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread
* Re: Fedora Core 2 setools RPM 2004-06-18 19:31 ` Joshua D. Guttman @ 2004-06-18 20:09 ` Stephen Smalley 2004-06-21 13:16 ` Frank Mayer 2004-06-21 13:14 ` Frank Mayer 1 sibling, 1 reply; 29+ messages in thread From: Stephen Smalley @ 2004-06-18 20:09 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Joshua D. Guttman disp: slinux Cc: John D. Ramsdell, Karl MacMillan, selinux, Amy L Herzog On Fri, 2004-06-18 at 15:31, Joshua D. Guttman wrote: > So in some sense the bottom line is that you think the type relations > give the essential core of the policy info, and to a first > approximation one can focus on that. I'd put it a bit more strongly, but close enough. > Of course, it's still desirable to have access to the supplementary > information (and an idea how to interpret it) so that the further > refinement will eventually work out. Fair. > A different point is that the main value added of slat is much more > expressive security goals (even when restricted to the types info). > You're not just talking about accessibility of a type to information > flow from another, but also whether all the possible flows go through > a desired gate type. And the key fact you mentioned at the end of > your last message I may be wrong, but I think that you can determine this information via libapol as well. -- Stephen Smalley <sds@epoch.ncsc.mil> National Security Agency -- This message was distributed to subscribers of the selinux mailing list. If you no longer wish to subscribe, send mail to majordomo@tycho.nsa.gov with the words "unsubscribe selinux" without quotes as the message. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread
* RE: Fedora Core 2 setools RPM 2004-06-18 20:09 ` Stephen Smalley @ 2004-06-21 13:16 ` Frank Mayer 0 siblings, 0 replies; 29+ messages in thread From: Frank Mayer @ 2004-06-21 13:16 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 'Stephen Smalley', 'Joshua D. Guttman disp: slinux' Cc: 'John D. Ramsdell', 'Karl MacMillan', selinux, 'Amy L Herzog' >> A different point is that the main value added of slat is much more >> expressive security goals (even when restricted to the types info). >> You're not just talking about accessibility of a type to information >> flow from another, but also whether all the possible flows go through >> a desired gate type. And the key fact you mentioned at the end of >> your last message > > I may be wrong, but I think that you can determine this information > via libapol as well. Yes a transitive information flow analysis is what makes this difficult, both to do and for a human to understand. Libapol has supported a form of transitive information flow analysis from the beginning of its information flow support. It has evolved somewhat, and now has significant filtering capabilities as discussed in the tool help. Frank -- This message was distributed to subscribers of the selinux mailing list. If you no longer wish to subscribe, send mail to majordomo@tycho.nsa.gov with the words "unsubscribe selinux" without quotes as the message. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread
* RE: Fedora Core 2 setools RPM 2004-06-18 19:31 ` Joshua D. Guttman 2004-06-18 20:09 ` Stephen Smalley @ 2004-06-21 13:14 ` Frank Mayer 2004-06-21 13:43 ` Joshua D. Guttman 1 sibling, 1 reply; 29+ messages in thread From: Frank Mayer @ 2004-06-21 13:14 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 'Joshua D. Guttman disp: slinux', 'Stephen Smalley' Cc: 'John D. Ramsdell', 'Karl MacMillan', selinux, 'Amy L Herzog' > So in some sense the bottom line is that you think the type relations > give the essential core of the policy info, and to a first > approximation one can focus on that. > > Of course, it's still desirable to have access to the supplementary > information (and an idea how to interpret it) so that the further > refinement will eventually work out. I will assert rather strongly that a transitive analysis of flows between given types is the nearly the entire concern. Filters on that analysis make the analysis practical, and the most important filters we have learned are interim types (i.e., "trusted" types), object classes, and permissions and permissions weights. Libapol supports all of this. Constraints IMHO are like other orthogonal security mechanisms (such as protection modes); they can add further restrictions but are not part of the fundamental TE policy. Role context restrictions are the same. Some day we may get to them (as well as checking for access modes and indeed if types are even applied to real objects), but these issues are not critical to the goal. Our thrust, now that we have implemented most of the critical filters that we have identified through analysis experience, is to provide a batching capability to allow re-analysis and modeling of security properties. Frank -- This message was distributed to subscribers of the selinux mailing list. If you no longer wish to subscribe, send mail to majordomo@tycho.nsa.gov with the words "unsubscribe selinux" without quotes as the message. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread
* Re: Fedora Core 2 setools RPM 2004-06-21 13:14 ` Frank Mayer @ 2004-06-21 13:43 ` Joshua D. Guttman 2004-06-21 15:26 ` Frank Mayer 2004-06-21 15:28 ` Frank Mayer 0 siblings, 2 replies; 29+ messages in thread From: Joshua D. Guttman @ 2004-06-21 13:43 UTC (permalink / raw) To: mayerf Cc: 'Stephen Smalley', 'John D. Ramsdell', 'Karl MacMillan', selinux, 'Amy L Herzog', Joshua D. Guttman "Frank Mayer" <mayerf@tresys.com> writes: > Filters on that analysis make the analysis practical, and the most > important filters we have learned are interim types (i.e., > "trusted" types), object classes, and permissions and permissions > weights. Could I ask you please to explain what you mean by these terms? Thanks -- Joshua -- Joshua D. Guttman <guttman@mitre.org> MITRE, Mail Stop S119 Office: +1 781 271 2654 202 Burlington Rd. Fax: +1 781 271 8953 Bedford, MA 01730-1420 USA Cell: +1 781 526 5713 -- This message was distributed to subscribers of the selinux mailing list. If you no longer wish to subscribe, send mail to majordomo@tycho.nsa.gov with the words "unsubscribe selinux" without quotes as the message. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread
* RE: Fedora Core 2 setools RPM 2004-06-21 13:43 ` Joshua D. Guttman @ 2004-06-21 15:26 ` Frank Mayer 2004-06-21 15:28 ` Frank Mayer 1 sibling, 0 replies; 29+ messages in thread From: Frank Mayer @ 2004-06-21 15:26 UTC (permalink / raw) To: mayerf guttman@malabar.mitre.org wrote: >> Filters on that analysis make the analysis practical, and the most >> important filters we have learned are interim types (i.e., >> "trusted" types), object classes, and permissions and permissions >> weights. > > Could I ask you please to explain what you mean by these terms? As a starting point, you need to look at the GUI and help file for apol's information flow analysis. I'm sure our help files are not the best, but performing the analysis should make these terms meaningful in the context of our analysis capability. The "trusted" types (I think the GUI calls them "excluded") is by far the most important filter, as it allows you to exclude certain intermediate types from the analysis of a given flow. Frank -- This message was distributed to subscribers of the selinux mailing list. If you no longer wish to subscribe, send mail to majordomo@tycho.nsa.gov with the words "unsubscribe selinux" without quotes as the message. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread
* RE: Fedora Core 2 setools RPM 2004-06-21 13:43 ` Joshua D. Guttman 2004-06-21 15:26 ` Frank Mayer @ 2004-06-21 15:28 ` Frank Mayer 1 sibling, 0 replies; 29+ messages in thread From: Frank Mayer @ 2004-06-21 15:28 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 'Joshua D. Guttman disp: current' Cc: 'Stephen Smalley', 'John D. Ramsdell', 'Karl MacMillan', selinux, 'Amy L Herzog' guttman@malabar.mitre.org wrote: >> Filters on that analysis make the analysis practical, and the most >> important filters we have learned are interim types (i.e., >> "trusted" types), object classes, and permissions and permissions >> weights. > > Could I ask you please to explain what you mean by these terms? As a starting point, look at the GUI and help file for apol's information flow analysis. I'm sure our help files are not the best, but performing the analysis should make these terms meaningful in the context of our tool. The "trusted" types (I think the GUI calls them "excluded") is by far the most important filter, as it allows you to exclude certain intermediate types from the analysis of a given flow. Frank -- This message was distributed to subscribers of the selinux mailing list. If you no longer wish to subscribe, send mail to majordomo@tycho.nsa.gov with the words "unsubscribe selinux" without quotes as the message. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread
* Re: Fedora Core 2 setools RPM 2004-06-18 18:43 ` Stephen Smalley 2004-06-18 19:31 ` Joshua D. Guttman @ 2004-06-19 5:33 ` Russell Coker 2004-06-19 13:09 ` Serge E. Hallyn 1 sibling, 1 reply; 29+ messages in thread From: Russell Coker @ 2004-06-19 5:33 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Stephen Smalley Cc: Joshua D. Guttman disp: current, John D. Ramsdell, Karl MacMillan, selinux, Amy L Herzog On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 04:43, Stephen Smalley <sds@epoch.ncsc.mil> wrote: > A more realistic case is newrole. user_t -> newrole_t -> sysadm_t is an > allowed series of domain transitions, and the only thing preventing > jdoe:user_r:user_t from using newrole to get to sysadm_t is the fact > that jdoe is restricted to user_r and user_r is restricted to user_t by > the kernel policy. But from an information flow perspective, you simply > want to prove that user_t can only reach sysadm_t through specific gate > domains like newrole_t. One feature I have suggested for policy analysis tools is a method of specifying policy analysis hints in the policy source. This would allow specifying newrole_t as a gate domain as well as providing high level assertions about data flow. If we are going to move to binary policy analysis then we would need some other mechanism for managing policy analysis information. I think it would provide a significant benefit to allow policy authors to specify what the goals of their policy should be and then allow other people to analyse whether the policy meets it's goals in the context of a complete system. Maybe the next time we change the policy binary format we could add a field that the kernel would treat as a comment which could be used for checkpolicy to store data that can later be used by policy analysis tools. -- http://www.coker.com.au/selinux/ My NSA Security Enhanced Linux packages http://www.coker.com.au/bonnie++/ Bonnie++ hard drive benchmark http://www.coker.com.au/postal/ Postal SMTP/POP benchmark http://www.coker.com.au/~russell/ My home page -- This message was distributed to subscribers of the selinux mailing list. If you no longer wish to subscribe, send mail to majordomo@tycho.nsa.gov with the words "unsubscribe selinux" without quotes as the message. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread
* Re: Fedora Core 2 setools RPM 2004-06-19 5:33 ` Russell Coker @ 2004-06-19 13:09 ` Serge E. Hallyn 0 siblings, 0 replies; 29+ messages in thread From: Serge E. Hallyn @ 2004-06-19 13:09 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Russell Coker Cc: Stephen Smalley, Joshua D. Guttman disp: current, John D. Ramsdell, Karl MacMillan, selinux, Amy L Herzog > On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 04:43, Stephen Smalley <sds@epoch.ncsc.mil> wrote: > > A more realistic case is newrole. user_t -> newrole_t -> sysadm_t is an > > allowed series of domain transitions, and the only thing preventing > > jdoe:user_r:user_t from using newrole to get to sysadm_t is the fact > > that jdoe is restricted to user_r and user_r is restricted to user_t by > > the kernel policy. But from an information flow perspective, you simply > > want to prove that user_t can only reach sysadm_t through specific gate > > domains like newrole_t. > > One feature I have suggested for policy analysis tools is a method of > specifying policy analysis hints in the policy source. > > This would allow specifying newrole_t as a gate domain as well as providing > high level assertions about data flow. In my graphical DTE policy analysis tools, I supported precisely this, annotating things like "entry program has been verified, so concentrate on other paths". With DTE modules, types and domains can be annotated with "assert" statements, which relay information to arbitrary policy consistency classes. For instance, "assert blp trusted" would tell a class checking for maintenance of BLP type relations across a module application that this domain or type is trusted. Of course a class which was checking for domain transitions could be listening for something like "assert xition ignore". The code is just about there to compile DTE modules into SELinux policies. My SELinux partition decided to throw a hissy before I was able to finish testing, but I plan to get back to this after this coming week or the next. I will be talking about DTE (== selinux?) modules on thursday at Usenix Tech. I would love to chat afterward with anyone who has ideas about how the module language would need to be changed to actually be of interest to selinux people, or about why the module language simply sucks. -serge -- This message was distributed to subscribers of the selinux mailing list. If you no longer wish to subscribe, send mail to majordomo@tycho.nsa.gov with the words "unsubscribe selinux" without quotes as the message. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread
* Re: Fedora Core 2 setools RPM 2004-06-17 15:58 ` Stephen Smalley 2004-06-17 18:47 ` Karl MacMillan @ 2004-06-18 13:09 ` John D. Ramsdell 2004-06-21 13:04 ` Frank Mayer 1 sibling, 1 reply; 29+ messages in thread From: John D. Ramsdell @ 2004-06-18 13:09 UTC (permalink / raw) To: selinux Stephen Smalley <sds@epoch.ncsc.mil> writes: > ... I'd also think you would want both shared and static libraries, > and have most of the tools dynamically linked against the shared > library. If Tresys is not completely sure that the libapol API is stable, they may want to only release a static library for now. Changing the API used by a static library means that compilations may fail, but existing binaries will be not be effected by the change. Changing the API used by a shared library means that existing binaries may fail. Tresys should commit itself to an API provided by a shared library only after careful thought. John -- This message was distributed to subscribers of the selinux mailing list. If you no longer wish to subscribe, send mail to majordomo@tycho.nsa.gov with the words "unsubscribe selinux" without quotes as the message. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread
* RE: Fedora Core 2 setools RPM 2004-06-18 13:09 ` John D. Ramsdell @ 2004-06-21 13:04 ` Frank Mayer 2004-06-21 15:43 ` John D. Ramsdell 0 siblings, 1 reply; 29+ messages in thread From: Frank Mayer @ 2004-06-21 13:04 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 'John D. Ramsdell', selinux; +Cc: selinux-dev > If Tresys is not completely sure that the libapol API is stable, they > may want to only release a static library for now. Changing the API > used by a static library means that compilations may fail, but > existing binaries will be not be effected by the change. Changing the > API used by a shared library means that existing binaries may fail. > Tresys should commit itself to an API provided by a shared library > only after careful thought. > > John We are positive that the API is not stable, and guarantee that it will change a lot between releases. We're still in a highly exploratory development cycle; so feel free to use the libraries but understand they are evolving based upon our needs. For example, significant work is proceeding now to enhance the library to support a semantic policy diff tool we're building, as well as a means to model and batch information flow analyses. With that said, we have 2.5 years invested in this code, and for our own sanity we try to keep old interfaces syntactically the same between versions, and add new ones as necessary. The headers are not structured well for strong modular isolation of the libraries, so be careful. Frank -- This message was distributed to subscribers of the selinux mailing list. If you no longer wish to subscribe, send mail to majordomo@tycho.nsa.gov with the words "unsubscribe selinux" without quotes as the message. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread
* Re: Fedora Core 2 setools RPM 2004-06-21 13:04 ` Frank Mayer @ 2004-06-21 15:43 ` John D. Ramsdell 0 siblings, 0 replies; 29+ messages in thread From: John D. Ramsdell @ 2004-06-21 15:43 UTC (permalink / raw) To: selinux "Frank Mayer" <mayerf@tresys.com> writes: > We are positive that the API is not stable, and guarantee that it > will change a lot between releases. Yeah, I suspected as such. I fully understand why Tresys wouldn't want to install a shared library version of libapol at this stage of its development. John -- This message was distributed to subscribers of the selinux mailing list. If you no longer wish to subscribe, send mail to majordomo@tycho.nsa.gov with the words "unsubscribe selinux" without quotes as the message. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread
* Re: Fedora Core 2 setools RPM 2004-06-17 15:36 ` Fedora Core 2 setools RPM Karl MacMillan 2004-06-17 15:58 ` Stephen Smalley @ 2004-06-17 18:31 ` John D. Ramsdell 1 sibling, 0 replies; 29+ messages in thread From: John D. Ramsdell @ 2004-06-17 18:31 UTC (permalink / raw) To: selinux "Karl MacMillan" <kmacmillan@tresys.com> writes: > In general, we have not spent many resources addressing the use of > libapol outside of setools. >From my perspective, the application programmer's interface provided by libapol seems to provide an attractive platform on top of which I should be able to build a version of slat that can analyze binary policy configuration files. The alternative for me is to cobble something together from the sources in the checkpolicy directory. My guess is that I would have to duplicate functionality already present in libapol. My greatest concern with using libapol for slat is that it seems to provide no routines that expose CONSTRAIN statements in a policy. When I did a grep on the sources, I notice the word "constrain" is not in any header file but one, and libapol/binpol/borrowed.h contains the following comment. /* needed for constraints (which apol currently ignores */ John $ grep -i constrain libapol/*.* libapol/*/*.* libapol/apolicy_parse.y:/* from originial constraint.h */ libapol/apolicy_parse.y:typedef struct constraint_expr { libapol/apolicy_parse.y: struct constraint_expr *left; libapol/apolicy_parse.y: struct constraint_expr *right; libapol/apolicy_parse.y:} constraint_expr_t; libapol/apolicy_parse.y:/* end from constraint.h */ libapol/apolicy_parse.y:static int define_constraint(void); libapol/apolicy_parse.y:static constraint_expr_t *define_cexpr(__u32 expr_type, __u32 arg1, __u32 arg2); libapol/apolicy_parse.y:%token CONSTRAIN libapol/apolicy_parse.y: opt_mls te_rbac users opt_constraints libapol/apolicy_parse.y:/* added July 2002; made constraints optional */ libapol/apolicy_parse.y:opt_constraints : constraints libapol/apolicy_parse.y:constraints : constraint_def libapol/apolicy_parse.y: | constraints constraint_def libapol/apolicy_parse.y:constraint_def : CONSTRAIN names names cexpr ';' libapol/apolicy_parse.y: { if (define_constraint()) return -1; } libapol/apolicy_parse.y:static int define_constraint(void) libapol/apolicy_parse.y:static constraint_expr_t * libapol/apolicy_parse.y: return (constraint_expr_t *)1; /* any non-NULL value */ libapol/apolicy_scan.l:CONSTRAIN | libapol/apolicy_scan.l:constrain { return(CONSTRAIN); } libapol/binpol/binpol.c: * buf[5] num constraints (ignore constraints) */ libapol/binpol/binpol.c: /* ignore constraints */ libapol/binpol/borrowed.h:/* needed for constraints (which apol currently ignores */ -- This message was distributed to subscribers of the selinux mailing list. If you no longer wish to subscribe, send mail to majordomo@tycho.nsa.gov with the words "unsubscribe selinux" without quotes as the message. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread
* Re: Fedora Core 2 policy source 2004-06-15 21:07 Fedora Core 2 policy source Kratzer, James R. 2004-06-15 23:26 ` Fedora Core 2 setools RPM John D. Ramsdell @ 2004-06-15 23:33 ` John D. Ramsdell 2004-06-16 1:25 ` John D. Ramsdell 1 sibling, 1 reply; 29+ messages in thread From: John D. Ramsdell @ 2004-06-15 23:33 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Kratzer, James R.; +Cc: SE Linux Mail List (E-mail) "Kratzer, James R." <JamesK@xetron.com> writes: > Where are the source policy files for Fedora Core 2? The source directory > "/etc/security/selinux/src/policy" appears to be missing from the install. > Thanks. In the RPM directory of Disk three of FC2, search for *selinux*, *policy*, and *setools*, and I think you'll find the SE Linux relevant RPMs. John -- This message was distributed to subscribers of the selinux mailing list. If you no longer wish to subscribe, send mail to majordomo@tycho.nsa.gov with the words "unsubscribe selinux" without quotes as the message. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread
* Re: Fedora Core 2 policy source 2004-06-15 23:33 ` Fedora Core 2 policy source John D. Ramsdell @ 2004-06-16 1:25 ` John D. Ramsdell 0 siblings, 0 replies; 29+ messages in thread From: John D. Ramsdell @ 2004-06-16 1:25 UTC (permalink / raw) To: selinux I meant to say: In the RPM directory of Disk three of FC2, search for file names that contain the strings, "selinux", "policy", and "setools", and I think you'll find the SE Linux relevant RPMs. Actually, in my original message, I typed in file name patterns that both started and ended with an asterisk. Of course, the asterisks cause the text in between to be displayed in bold--not what I wanted. John ramsdell@mitre.org (John D. Ramsdell) writes: > "Kratzer, James R." <JamesK@xetron.com> writes: > > > Where are the source policy files for Fedora Core 2? The source directory > > "/etc/security/selinux/src/policy" appears to be missing from the install. > > Thanks. > > In the RPM directory of Disk three of FC2, search for *selinux*, *policy*, > and *setools*, and I think you'll find the SE Linux relevant RPMs. > > John > > -- > This message was distributed to subscribers of the selinux mailing list. > If you no longer wish to subscribe, send mail to majordomo@tycho.nsa.gov with > the words "unsubscribe selinux" without quotes as the message. -- This message was distributed to subscribers of the selinux mailing list. If you no longer wish to subscribe, send mail to majordomo@tycho.nsa.gov with the words "unsubscribe selinux" without quotes as the message. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 29+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2004-06-21 15:43 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 29+ messages (download: mbox.gz follow: Atom feed -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 2004-06-15 21:07 Fedora Core 2 policy source Kratzer, James R. 2004-06-15 23:26 ` Fedora Core 2 setools RPM John D. Ramsdell 2004-06-16 13:37 ` Stephen Smalley 2004-06-16 16:58 ` Daniel J Walsh 2004-06-17 9:47 ` SE Linux enhanced strace for Fedora Core 2 John D. Ramsdell 2004-06-17 15:36 ` Fedora Core 2 setools RPM Karl MacMillan 2004-06-17 15:58 ` Stephen Smalley 2004-06-17 18:47 ` Karl MacMillan 2004-06-18 13:00 ` John D. Ramsdell 2004-06-18 14:13 ` Stephen Smalley 2004-06-18 17:26 ` Joshua D. Guttman 2004-06-18 17:51 ` Stephen Smalley 2004-06-18 18:18 ` Joshua D. Guttman 2004-06-18 18:43 ` Stephen Smalley 2004-06-18 19:31 ` Joshua D. Guttman 2004-06-18 20:09 ` Stephen Smalley 2004-06-21 13:16 ` Frank Mayer 2004-06-21 13:14 ` Frank Mayer 2004-06-21 13:43 ` Joshua D. Guttman 2004-06-21 15:26 ` Frank Mayer 2004-06-21 15:28 ` Frank Mayer 2004-06-19 5:33 ` Russell Coker 2004-06-19 13:09 ` Serge E. Hallyn 2004-06-18 13:09 ` John D. Ramsdell 2004-06-21 13:04 ` Frank Mayer 2004-06-21 15:43 ` John D. Ramsdell 2004-06-17 18:31 ` John D. Ramsdell 2004-06-15 23:33 ` Fedora Core 2 policy source John D. Ramsdell 2004-06-16 1:25 ` John D. Ramsdell
This is an external index of several public inboxes, see mirroring instructions on how to clone and mirror all data and code used by this external index.