From: DJ Delorie <dj@redhat.com>
To: Alejandro Colomar <alx@kernel.org>
Cc: linux-man@vger.kernel.org, libc-alpha@sourceware.org
Subject: Re: The goal of the Linux man-pages project
Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2026 10:50:30 -0400 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <xnik5o4o5l.fsf@greed.delorie.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <anNBLjQj8-Eg1TUf@devuan> (message from Alejandro Colomar on Wed, 5 Aug 2026 16:15:07 +0200)
Alejandro Colomar <alx@kernel.org> writes:
> SYNOPSIS
> #include <string.h> // see memory.h(3head)
This belongs in either SEE ALSO or FILES.
> STANDARDS
> BSD.
>
> These functions are also provided in <string.h>, as speci‐
> fied by ISO C.
Ok so far
> This is a historic mistake maintained for
> compatibility reasons. Don’t let that fool you; these
> functions don’t necessarily operate on strings.
This just doesn't fit, it's far too opinionated and personal. It needs
to be more neutral and standards-respecting.
"Historically, this file contained memory-related functions, while
string.h contained string-related functions, but currently these
functions are all in string.h, despite these not being string
functions, and typically memory.h just includes string.h for
compatibility across all the historic standards."
I'm not arguing against the message here, just the tone.
As for the message...
I think the only way we could be more persuasive is if we convinced the
standards committees to actually segregate string and memory functions
in the specifications, and tell you to ("shall") include string.h or
memory.h accordingly, but that would break a lot of programs if it was
actually required ("must").
As an interim step, we could get the standards to specify string.h for
string functions and memory.h for memory functions ("should"), knowing
that either include gives you both, and at a later date (after all the
software is migrated) change to "shall" and start encouraging providers
to actually segregate them. Or offer a #define that strictly separates
them to aid in migration, such as we do with other api-breaking
standards changes.
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2026-08-05 14:50 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 145+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2026-07-31 21:18 [PATCH 0/2] alx-0097r1 - <memory.h>, the legitimate header for memcpy(3) et al Alejandro Colomar
2026-07-31 21:18 ` [PATCH 1/2] man/man3/{mem,strn}*(): SYNOPSIS, STANDARDS: Document these as provided by <memory.h> Alejandro Colomar
2026-07-31 21:23 ` Joseph Myers
2026-07-31 21:28 ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-07-31 21:54 ` Sam James
2026-07-31 22:18 ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-08-01 0:12 ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-08-01 14:43 ` Sam James
2026-07-31 21:51 ` on the irresponsibility of pursuing C language reform (was: [PATCH 1/2] man/man3/{mem,strn}*(): SYNOPSIS, STANDARDS: Document these as provided by <memory.h>) G. Branden Robinson
2026-07-31 21:59 ` on the irresponsibility of pursuing C language reform Sam James
2026-07-31 22:24 ` G. Branden Robinson
2026-07-31 23:19 ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-08-01 14:52 ` Sam James
2026-08-01 12:01 ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-08-01 12:04 ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-08-01 14:38 ` Sam James
2026-08-01 15:15 ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-08-01 16:10 ` Sam James
2026-08-01 17:09 ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-08-01 21:34 ` G. Branden Robinson
2026-08-01 22:22 ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-08-01 22:26 ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-08-03 13:42 ` Joseph Myers
2026-08-03 14:22 ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-08-03 14:38 ` on glibc forking/reclaiming its man pages (was: on the irresponsibility of pursuing C language reform) G. Branden Robinson
2026-08-03 14:44 ` Joseph Myers
2026-08-03 15:18 ` G. Branden Robinson
[not found] ` <CAETFuj2OwoyK9J85r2f0RoXbHbXKA4gQJ=JZ-7=QoqGcMwk0+Q@mail.gmail.com>
2026-08-01 22:44 ` on the irresponsibility of pursuing C language reform Alejandro Colomar
2026-08-01 23:24 ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-08-01 23:53 ` proposed revision to memory.h(3head) (was: on the irresponsibility of pursuing C language reform) G. Branden Robinson
2026-08-02 0:27 ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-08-02 1:03 ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-08-03 0:47 ` proposed revision to memory.h(3head) Alejandro Colomar
2026-08-03 17:58 ` Mark Harris
2026-08-03 18:47 ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-08-03 20:14 ` Mark Harris
2026-08-03 23:36 ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-08-04 3:25 ` Mark Harris
2026-08-03 14:10 ` proposed revision to memory.h(3head) (was: on the irresponsibility of pursuing C language reform) Joseph Myers
2026-08-03 14:31 ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-08-02 12:52 ` on the irresponsibility of pursuing C language reform Steve Summit
2026-08-02 13:17 ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-08-02 13:45 ` Steve Summit
2026-08-02 14:11 ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-08-02 19:28 ` Paul Eggert
2026-08-02 20:31 ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-08-03 3:28 ` Paul Eggert
2026-08-03 11:39 ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-08-03 13:23 ` Joseph Myers
2026-08-01 20:18 ` G. Branden Robinson
2026-08-01 20:42 ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-08-01 20:45 ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-08-01 20:52 ` G. Branden Robinson
2026-08-01 21:12 ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-07-31 22:10 ` on the irresponsibility of pursuing C language reform (was: [PATCH 1/2] man/man3/{mem,strn}*(): SYNOPSIS, STANDARDS: Document these as provided by <memory.h>) Joseph Myers
2026-07-31 22:21 ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-07-31 22:28 ` [PATCH 1/2] man/man3/{mem,strn}*(): SYNOPSIS, STANDARDS: Document these as provided by <memory.h> G. Branden Robinson
2026-07-31 22:42 ` on the irresponsibility of pursuing C language reform (was: [PATCH 1/2] man/man3/{mem,strn}*(): SYNOPSIS, STANDARDS: Document these as provided by <memory.h>) Joseph Myers
2026-07-31 22:52 ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-07-31 23:11 ` Joseph Myers
2026-07-31 23:32 ` G. Branden Robinson
2026-08-01 12:39 ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-08-01 14:26 ` Christopher Bazley
2026-08-01 15:29 ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-07-31 23:45 ` on the irresponsibility of pursuing C language reform (was: " Alejandro Colomar
2026-08-01 12:39 ` Douglas McIlroy
2026-08-01 19:54 ` G. Branden Robinson
2026-08-01 20:35 ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-07-31 23:08 ` [PATCH 1/2] man/man3/{mem,strn}*(): SYNOPSIS, STANDARDS: Document these as provided by <memory.h> G. Branden Robinson
2026-07-31 23:28 ` Joseph Myers
2026-07-31 23:57 ` G. Branden Robinson
2026-08-01 0:06 ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-07-31 22:05 ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-07-31 22:16 ` Joseph Myers
2026-07-31 22:33 ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-07-31 23:48 ` [PATCH 1/2] man/man3/{mem, strn}*(): " Collin Funk
2026-07-31 23:52 ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-08-01 0:01 ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-08-04 2:35 ` Thorsten Glaser
2026-07-31 21:19 ` [PATCH 2/2] man/man*/{string.3,memory.h.3head}: Move functions to a new page memory.h(3head) Alejandro Colomar
2026-07-31 21:20 ` [PATCH 0/2] alx-0097r1 - <memory.h>, the legitimate header for memcpy(3) et al Alejandro Colomar
2026-08-01 0:25 ` [PATCH v2] man/man3/mem*(): SYNOPSIS: Document non-standard mem*() functions as provided by <memory.h> Alejandro Colomar
2026-08-01 22:22 ` Bruno Haible
2026-08-01 22:38 ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-08-01 22:55 ` Bruno Haible
2026-08-01 23:10 ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-08-01 23:26 ` Collin Funk
2026-08-01 23:34 ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-08-01 23:29 ` Paul Eggert
2026-08-01 23:36 ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-08-02 0:08 ` the Linux man-pages as an educational tool (was: [PATCH v2] man/man3/mem*(): SYNOPSIS: Document non-standard mem*() functions as provided by <memory.h>) G. Branden Robinson
2026-08-02 0:45 ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-08-02 1:04 ` the Linux man-pages as an educational tool Collin Funk
2026-08-02 1:15 ` G. Branden Robinson
2026-08-02 1:15 ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-08-02 1:49 ` Collin Funk
2026-08-02 11:29 ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-08-02 11:47 ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-08-02 12:04 ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-08-02 21:23 ` Maciej W. Rozycki
2026-08-02 21:34 ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-08-02 23:08 ` Arsen Arsenović
2026-08-02 23:10 ` G. Branden Robinson
2026-08-02 23:27 ` Collin Funk
2026-08-02 23:37 ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-08-02 23:41 ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-08-02 23:42 ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-08-03 1:12 ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-08-03 2:09 ` G. Branden Robinson
2026-08-03 12:21 ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-08-03 14:05 ` Sam James
2026-08-03 14:40 ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-08-03 15:34 ` G. Branden Robinson
2026-08-03 16:11 ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-08-03 16:15 ` Sam James
2026-08-03 16:43 ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-08-03 10:28 ` the Linux man-pages as an educational tool... and a bit about C Αγαθοκλής Χατζημανίκας
2026-08-03 14:03 ` the Linux man-pages as an educational tool Sam James
2026-08-03 14:28 ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-08-04 2:39 ` Collin Funk
2026-08-04 12:12 ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-08-04 15:49 ` Arsen Arsenović
2026-08-04 17:16 ` The goal of the Linux man-pages project Alejandro Colomar
2026-08-04 20:04 ` DJ Delorie
2026-08-04 23:07 ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-08-04 20:14 ` [GNULIB] " Αγαθοκλής Χατζημανίκας
2026-08-04 21:24 ` Αγαθοκλής Χατζημανίκας
2026-08-05 9:31 ` Arsen Arsenović
2026-08-05 14:15 ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-08-05 14:50 ` DJ Delorie [this message]
2026-08-05 15:18 ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-08-03 16:09 ` on project management (was: the Linux man-pages as an educational tool) G. Branden Robinson
2026-08-03 19:46 ` enh
2026-08-03 21:09 ` on project management Arsen Arsenović
2026-08-02 23:30 ` the Linux man-pages as an educational tool Alejandro Colomar
2026-08-03 11:00 ` Arsen Arsenović
2026-08-03 16:07 ` Jeffrey Walton
2026-08-03 16:17 ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-08-03 19:31 ` Joseph Myers
2026-08-03 19:47 ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-08-03 13:51 ` When and why realloc(,0) was broken in glibc in 1999 Alejandro Colomar
2026-08-03 12:35 ` the Linux man-pages as an educational tool Bruno Haible
2026-08-03 13:07 ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-08-03 19:45 ` Joseph Myers
2026-08-03 19:50 ` Alejandro Colomar
Reply instructions:
You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:
* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
and reply-to-all from there: mbox
Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style
* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
switches of git-send-email(1):
git send-email \
--in-reply-to=xnik5o4o5l.fsf@greed.delorie.com \
--to=dj@redhat.com \
--cc=alx@kernel.org \
--cc=libc-alpha@sourceware.org \
--cc=linux-man@vger.kernel.org \
/path/to/YOUR_REPLY
https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html
* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line
before the message body.
This is an external index of several public inboxes,
see mirroring instructions on how to clone and mirror
all data and code used by this external index.