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From: Richard Patel <ripatel@wii.dev>
To: David Laight <david.laight.linux@gmail.com>
Cc: x86@kernel.org, Rick Edgecombe <rick.p.edgecombe@intel.com>,
	Yu-cheng Yu <yu-cheng.yu@intel.com>,
	Dave Hansen <dave.hansen@linux.intel.com>,
	Thomas Gleixner <tglx@kernel.org>, Ingo Molnar <mingo@redhat.com>,
	Borislav Petkov <bp@alien8.de>, "H. Peter Anvin" <hpa@zytor.com>,
	Andy Lutomirski <luto@kernel.org>, Kees Cook <kees@kernel.org>,
	Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org>,
	Shuah Khan <shuah@kernel.org>,
	linux-kselftest@vger.kernel.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: [PATCH 0/7] Usermode Indirect Branch Tracking
Date: Tue, 19 May 2026 14:18:04 +0000	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <agxxHHKCOh3TpWHv@wii.dev> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20260519142808.0d3605ab@pumpkin>

On Tue, May 19, 2026 at 02:28:08PM +0100, David Laight wrote:
> On Tue, 19 May 2026 13:14:33 +0000
> Richard Patel <ripatel@wii.dev> wrote:
> 
> > On Tue, May 19, 2026 at 10:33:45AM +0100, David Laight wrote:
> > > Isn't using 'notrack jmp *reg' for jump tables actually more secure?
> > > If an attacker can write code it doesn't matter.
> > > The jump table in is RO memory so can't be written.
> > > But if there are ENDBR on all the jump table targets they become
> > > possibly useful code addresses to arrange to write into some RW
> > > function pointer table - which might be useful.  
> > 
> > You're right. I was worried about an invalid jump table index at first.
> > Clang 22 happily optimizes away jump table index bounds checks. GCC 16
> > seems to be more careful. We should probably patch LLVM to never
> > optimize it away, e.g.:
> > 
> > 	// funny.c
> > 	// clang -c -fcf-protection=branch -O2 -o funny.o funny.c
> > 	// objdump -d funny.o -M intel
> > 	int t0(void), t1(void), t2(void), t3(void);
> > 	int funny(unsigned long target) {
> > 		__builtin_assume(target < 4);
> 
> If you use __builtin_assume() you get to clear up the mess.

I'm pretty sure you'd get the same result with cross-function
optimization across a bunch of static functions or LTO. Compiler goes
"oh, this internal function is only reachable from these 3 callers in
the same unit, which all already bound their input params. Guess I will
skip the bounds check".

It is a compiler bug that Clang is at all able to generate unbounded
'notrack jmp' with -fcf-protection=branch, it blows a gap in IBT.

Anyways, I don't think we need kernel support for banning notrack in
userland? There is no ABI (GNU note) standard for 'notrack-free'
binaries AFAIK, and as you point out notrack is a secure way to do
jump tables (if done properly).

> I don't know if userspace ever cares about speculative array access.
> If it does you need one of the mitigration - eg using cmp+cmov
> to generate a jump table index that references the 'default'.

Intel docs say that "CET-IBT limits speculative execution at indirect
branch targets that do not start with ENDBRANCH", with heavy emphasis
on "limits" not "prevents" ... Is it too unreliable in practice?

https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/developer/articles/technical/software-security-guidance/technical-documentation/branch-history-injection.html#inpage-nav-4-3

-- Richard

  reply	other threads:[~2026-05-19 14:23 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 20+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2026-05-17 18:30 [PATCH 0/7] Usermode Indirect Branch Tracking Richard Patel
2026-05-17 18:30 ` [PATCH 1/7] x86: add userspace IBT config option Richard Patel
2026-05-17 18:30 ` [PATCH 2/7] x86: shstk: don't clobber IBT bits in U_CET MSR Richard Patel
2026-05-17 18:30 ` [PATCH 3/7] x86: signal handler support for IBT Richard Patel
2026-05-17 18:30 ` [PATCH 4/7] x86: ban 32-bit sigreturn when user IBT enabled Richard Patel
2026-05-18 20:22   ` H. Peter Anvin
2026-05-19  0:14     ` Richard Patel
2026-05-17 18:30 ` [PATCH 5/7] x86: expose user IBT via PR_CFI_BRANCH_LANDING_PADS Richard Patel
2026-05-18  6:46   ` Richard Patel
2026-05-17 18:30 ` [PATCH 6/7] x86/entry/vdso: build with IBT support Richard Patel
2026-05-17 18:30 ` [PATCH 7/7] selftests/x86: test usermode IBT Richard Patel
2026-05-18  7:36 ` [PATCH 0/7] Usermode Indirect Branch Tracking Peter Zijlstra
2026-05-18 16:25   ` Richard Patel
2026-05-18 19:31     ` Peter Zijlstra
2026-05-19  9:33 ` David Laight
2026-05-19  9:40   ` Peter Zijlstra
2026-05-19 13:14   ` Richard Patel
2026-05-19 13:28     ` David Laight
2026-05-19 14:18       ` Richard Patel [this message]
2026-05-19 14:42         ` Peter Zijlstra

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