[ANN] Registration and Request for Topics for the Media Summit on May 13th in Nice, France

[ANN] Registration and Request for Topics for the Media Summit on May 13th in Nice, France

[Hans Verkuil]

Hi all,

We will organize another Media Summit on Tuesday May 13th to coincide with
the Embedded Recipes Conference in Nice, France:

https://embedded-recipes.org/2025/

Note that there are also some workshops held after this conference:

https://embedded-recipes.org/2025/workshops/

And apparently a gStreamer event during the weekend. If anyone has more
details about this, please reply to this post.

The Media Summit will be held at Hotel Campanile:

https://nice-aeroport.campanile.com/en-us/

It is close to the Airport and to the Embedded Recipes venue.

The meeting room can hold up to 30 people and has video conferencing support.

That said, I want to keep remote participation to a minimum. This yearly summit is meant
for active media developers to meet up face-to-face and to discuss media subsystem issues.
But if you are an active media developer and are really not able to attend in person, then
remote participation is an option.

If you want to attend the meeting (either in person or remote), then send an email to me
directly. The deadline for that is May 2nd as the hotel needs to know the final number of
attendees by then. We have more seats available than last year, so I do not expect to run out.
In the unlikely case that this becomes a problem, then I will revisit this.

There is no registration fee.

If you have a topic that you want to discuss, just 'Reply All' to this announcement.
It would be very much appreciated if you can also add a guesstimate of the time
you need for your topic.

See last year's Media Summit Report as an example of what to expect:

https://lore.kernel.org/linux-media/45e4f5d4-f6c4-4f0b-96b5-f5e1125b0845@xs4all.nl/

There are two topics already for the upcoming Media Summit:

Paul Kocialkowski:
Stateless video encoding uAPI

Hans Verkuil:
Status of Media CI/Multi-committers
Duration guesstimate: 1 hour

Regards,

	Hans

Re: [ANN] Registration and Request for Topics for the Media Summit on May 13th in Nice, France

[Hans Verkuil]

On 14/03/2025 10:59, Hans Verkuil wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> We will organize another Media Summit on Tuesday May 13th to coincide with
> the Embedded Recipes Conference in Nice, France:
> 
> https://embedded-recipes.org/2025/
> 
> Note that there are also some workshops held after this conference:
> 
> https://embedded-recipes.org/2025/workshops/
> 
> And apparently a gStreamer event during the weekend. If anyone has more
> details about this, please reply to this post.
> 
> The Media Summit will be held at Hotel Campanile:
> 
> https://nice-aeroport.campanile.com/en-us/
> 
> It is close to the Airport and to the Embedded Recipes venue.
> 
> The meeting room can hold up to 30 people and has video conferencing support.

Many thanks to Collabora and Cisco Systems Norway for sponsoring the Media Summit and
taking care of the meeting room costs!

And from me a special 'Thank you!' to Larysa from Collabora for finding a suitable meeting
room for us, since I was swamped with work and had no time to look into that. Very much
appreciated!

Regards,

	Hans

> 
> That said, I want to keep remote participation to a minimum. This yearly summit is meant
> for active media developers to meet up face-to-face and to discuss media subsystem issues.
> But if you are an active media developer and are really not able to attend in person, then
> remote participation is an option.
> 
> If you want to attend the meeting (either in person or remote), then send an email to me
> directly. The deadline for that is May 2nd as the hotel needs to know the final number of
> attendees by then. We have more seats available than last year, so I do not expect to run out.
> In the unlikely case that this becomes a problem, then I will revisit this.
> 
> There is no registration fee.
> 
> If you have a topic that you want to discuss, just 'Reply All' to this announcement.
> It would be very much appreciated if you can also add a guesstimate of the time
> you need for your topic.
> 
> See last year's Media Summit Report as an example of what to expect:
> 
> https://lore.kernel.org/linux-media/45e4f5d4-f6c4-4f0b-96b5-f5e1125b0845@xs4all.nl/
> 
> There are two topics already for the upcoming Media Summit:
> 
> Paul Kocialkowski:
> Stateless video encoding uAPI
> 
> Hans Verkuil:
> Status of Media CI/Multi-committers
> Duration guesstimate: 1 hour
> 
> Regards,
> 
> 	Hans
> 

Re: [ANN] Registration and Request for Topics for the Media Summit on May 13th in Nice, France

[Jai Luthra]

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Hi all,

On Mar 14, 2025 at 10:59:58 +0100, Hans Verkuil wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> We will organize another Media Summit on Tuesday May 13th to coincide with
> the Embedded Recipes Conference in Nice, France:
> 
> https://embedded-recipes.org/2025/
> 
> Note that there are also some workshops held after this conference:
> 
> https://embedded-recipes.org/2025/workshops/
> 
> And apparently a gStreamer event during the weekend. If anyone has more
> details about this, please reply to this post.
> 
> The Media Summit will be held at Hotel Campanile:
> 
> https://nice-aeroport.campanile.com/en-us/
> 
> It is close to the Airport and to the Embedded Recipes venue.
> 
> The meeting room can hold up to 30 people and has video conferencing support.
> 
> That said, I want to keep remote participation to a minimum. This yearly summit is meant
> for active media developers to meet up face-to-face and to discuss media subsystem issues.
> But if you are an active media developer and are really not able to attend in person, then
> remote participation is an option.
> 
> If you want to attend the meeting (either in person or remote), then send an email to me
> directly. The deadline for that is May 2nd as the hotel needs to know the final number of
> attendees by then. We have more seats available than last year, so I do not expect to run out.
> In the unlikely case that this becomes a problem, then I will revisit this.
> 
> There is no registration fee.
> 
> If you have a topic that you want to discuss, just 'Reply All' to this announcement.
> It would be very much appreciated if you can also add a guesstimate of the time
> you need for your topic.

I have the following topic to discuss, required for supporting 
multi-stream (RGBIR) sensor drivers:

Jai Luthra:
Per-stream V4L2 controls
Duration guesstimate: 40 mins

> 
> See last year's Media Summit Report as an example of what to expect:
> 
> https://lore.kernel.org/linux-media/45e4f5d4-f6c4-4f0b-96b5-f5e1125b0845@xs4all.nl/
> 
> There are two topics already for the upcoming Media Summit:
> 
> Paul Kocialkowski:
> Stateless video encoding uAPI
> 
> Hans Verkuil:
> Status of Media CI/Multi-committers
> Duration guesstimate: 1 hour
> 
> Regards,
> 
> 	Hans

Thanks,
Jai

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Re: [ANN] Registration and Request for Topics for the Media Summit on May 13th in Nice, France

[Hans Verkuil]

Hi all,

Just a gentle reminder! If you plan to attend and haven't emailed me yet, please
do so.

I currently have 7 confirmed in-person attendees, and 3 remote attendees.

I have three proposed topics as well.

It's early days yet, so I hope we'll get more attendees and topics to discuss.

The plan is to post a first draft agenda by mid-April, so more topics are welcome!

Regards,

	Hans

On 14/03/2025 10:59, Hans Verkuil wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> We will organize another Media Summit on Tuesday May 13th to coincide with
> the Embedded Recipes Conference in Nice, France:
> 
> https://embedded-recipes.org/2025/
> 
> Note that there are also some workshops held after this conference:
> 
> https://embedded-recipes.org/2025/workshops/
> 
> And apparently a gStreamer event during the weekend. If anyone has more
> details about this, please reply to this post.
> 
> The Media Summit will be held at Hotel Campanile:
> 
> https://nice-aeroport.campanile.com/en-us/
> 
> It is close to the Airport and to the Embedded Recipes venue.
> 
> The meeting room can hold up to 30 people and has video conferencing support.
> 
> That said, I want to keep remote participation to a minimum. This yearly summit is meant
> for active media developers to meet up face-to-face and to discuss media subsystem issues.
> But if you are an active media developer and are really not able to attend in person, then
> remote participation is an option.
> 
> If you want to attend the meeting (either in person or remote), then send an email to me
> directly. The deadline for that is May 2nd as the hotel needs to know the final number of
> attendees by then. We have more seats available than last year, so I do not expect to run out.
> In the unlikely case that this becomes a problem, then I will revisit this.
> 
> There is no registration fee.
> 
> If you have a topic that you want to discuss, just 'Reply All' to this announcement.
> It would be very much appreciated if you can also add a guesstimate of the time
> you need for your topic.
> 
> See last year's Media Summit Report as an example of what to expect:
> 
> https://lore.kernel.org/linux-media/45e4f5d4-f6c4-4f0b-96b5-f5e1125b0845@xs4all.nl/
> 
> There are two topics already for the upcoming Media Summit:
> 
> Paul Kocialkowski:
> Stateless video encoding uAPI
> 
> Hans Verkuil:
> Status of Media CI/Multi-committers
> Duration guesstimate: 1 hour
> 
> Regards,
> 
> 	Hans
> 

Re: [ANN] Registration and Request for Topics for the Media Summit on May 13th in Nice, France

[Martin Hecht]

Hi Hans,

I'm would like to participate remotely this year.

BR Martin



On 3/28/25 14:58, Hans Verkuil wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> Just a gentle reminder! If you plan to attend and haven't emailed me yet, please
> do so.
> 
> I currently have 7 confirmed in-person attendees, and 3 remote attendees.
> 
> I have three proposed topics as well.
> 
> It's early days yet, so I hope we'll get more attendees and topics to discuss.
> 
> The plan is to post a first draft agenda by mid-April, so more topics are welcome!
> 
> Regards,
> 
> 	Hans
> 
> On 14/03/2025 10:59, Hans Verkuil wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> We will organize another Media Summit on Tuesday May 13th to coincide with
>> the Embedded Recipes Conference in Nice, France:
>>
>> https://embedded-recipes.org/2025/
>>
>> Note that there are also some workshops held after this conference:
>>
>> https://embedded-recipes.org/2025/workshops/
>>
>> And apparently a gStreamer event during the weekend. If anyone has more
>> details about this, please reply to this post.
>>
>> The Media Summit will be held at Hotel Campanile:
>>
>> https://nice-aeroport.campanile.com/en-us/
>>
>> It is close to the Airport and to the Embedded Recipes venue.
>>
>> The meeting room can hold up to 30 people and has video conferencing support.
>>
>> That said, I want to keep remote participation to a minimum. This yearly summit is meant
>> for active media developers to meet up face-to-face and to discuss media subsystem issues.
>> But if you are an active media developer and are really not able to attend in person, then
>> remote participation is an option.
>>
>> If you want to attend the meeting (either in person or remote), then send an email to me
>> directly. The deadline for that is May 2nd as the hotel needs to know the final number of
>> attendees by then. We have more seats available than last year, so I do not expect to run out.
>> In the unlikely case that this becomes a problem, then I will revisit this.
>>
>> There is no registration fee.
>>
>> If you have a topic that you want to discuss, just 'Reply All' to this announcement.
>> It would be very much appreciated if you can also add a guesstimate of the time
>> you need for your topic.
>>
>> See last year's Media Summit Report as an example of what to expect:
>>
>> https://lore.kernel.org/linux-media/45e4f5d4-f6c4-4f0b-96b5-f5e1125b0845@xs4all.nl/
>>
>> There are two topics already for the upcoming Media Summit:
>>
>> Paul Kocialkowski:
>> Stateless video encoding uAPI
>>
>> Hans Verkuil:
>> Status of Media CI/Multi-committers
>> Duration guesstimate: 1 hour
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> 	Hans
>>
> 
> 

Re: [ANN] Registration and Request for Topics for the Media Summit on May 13th in Nice, France

[Ricardo Ribalda]

Hi Hans

Thanks for organizing this.

I would like the following topic:

Openness Framework for ISPs
-------------------------------------------

Different people have different feelings of what is open and what is
not. I would like to propose a framework to harmonize the criteria
among the subsystem.
Yeah... it is a very abstract title with a very bad description... but
it is also a very abstract topic that I believe has been dragging us.
Face to face time could be of great use here.

guesstimate: difficult one to guess

Best regards!


On Fri, 28 Mar 2025 at 14:58, Hans Verkuil <hverkuil@xs4all.nl> wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> Just a gentle reminder! If you plan to attend and haven't emailed me yet, please
> do so.
>
> I currently have 7 confirmed in-person attendees, and 3 remote attendees.
>
> I have three proposed topics as well.
>
> It's early days yet, so I hope we'll get more attendees and topics to discuss.
>
> The plan is to post a first draft agenda by mid-April, so more topics are welcome!
>
> Regards,
>
>         Hans
>
> On 14/03/2025 10:59, Hans Verkuil wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > We will organize another Media Summit on Tuesday May 13th to coincide with
> > the Embedded Recipes Conference in Nice, France:
> >
> > https://embedded-recipes.org/2025/
> >
> > Note that there are also some workshops held after this conference:
> >
> > https://embedded-recipes.org/2025/workshops/
> >
> > And apparently a gStreamer event during the weekend. If anyone has more
> > details about this, please reply to this post.
> >
> > The Media Summit will be held at Hotel Campanile:
> >
> > https://nice-aeroport.campanile.com/en-us/
> >
> > It is close to the Airport and to the Embedded Recipes venue.
> >
> > The meeting room can hold up to 30 people and has video conferencing support.
> >
> > That said, I want to keep remote participation to a minimum. This yearly summit is meant
> > for active media developers to meet up face-to-face and to discuss media subsystem issues.
> > But if you are an active media developer and are really not able to attend in person, then
> > remote participation is an option.
> >
> > If you want to attend the meeting (either in person or remote), then send an email to me
> > directly. The deadline for that is May 2nd as the hotel needs to know the final number of
> > attendees by then. We have more seats available than last year, so I do not expect to run out.
> > In the unlikely case that this becomes a problem, then I will revisit this.
> >
> > There is no registration fee.
> >
> > If you have a topic that you want to discuss, just 'Reply All' to this announcement.
> > It would be very much appreciated if you can also add a guesstimate of the time
> > you need for your topic.
> >
> > See last year's Media Summit Report as an example of what to expect:
> >
> > https://lore.kernel.org/linux-media/45e4f5d4-f6c4-4f0b-96b5-f5e1125b0845@xs4all.nl/
> >
> > There are two topics already for the upcoming Media Summit:
> >
> > Paul Kocialkowski:
> > Stateless video encoding uAPI
> >
> > Hans Verkuil:
> > Status of Media CI/Multi-committers
> > Duration guesstimate: 1 hour
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> >       Hans
> >
>


-- 
Ricardo Ribalda

Re: [ANN] Registration and Request for Topics for the Media Summit on May 13th in Nice, France

[Laurent Pinchart]

Hi Hans,

On Fri, Mar 14, 2025 at 10:59:58AM +0100, Hans Verkuil wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> We will organize another Media Summit on Tuesday May 13th to coincide with
> the Embedded Recipes Conference in Nice, France:
> 
> https://embedded-recipes.org/2025/
> 
> Note that there are also some workshops held after this conference:
> 
> https://embedded-recipes.org/2025/workshops/
> 
> And apparently a gStreamer event during the weekend. If anyone has more
> details about this, please reply to this post.
> 
> The Media Summit will be held at Hotel Campanile:
> 
> https://nice-aeroport.campanile.com/en-us/
> 
> It is close to the Airport and to the Embedded Recipes venue.
> 
> The meeting room can hold up to 30 people and has video conferencing support.
> 
> That said, I want to keep remote participation to a minimum. This yearly summit is meant
> for active media developers to meet up face-to-face and to discuss media subsystem issues.
> But if you are an active media developer and are really not able to attend in person, then
> remote participation is an option.
> 
> If you want to attend the meeting (either in person or remote), then send an email to me
> directly. The deadline for that is May 2nd as the hotel needs to know the final number of
> attendees by then. We have more seats available than last year, so I do not expect to run out.
> In the unlikely case that this becomes a problem, then I will revisit this.
> 
> There is no registration fee.
> 
> If you have a topic that you want to discuss, just 'Reply All' to this announcement.
> It would be very much appreciated if you can also add a guesstimate of the time
> you need for your topic.
> 
> See last year's Media Summit Report as an example of what to expect:
> 
> https://lore.kernel.org/linux-media/45e4f5d4-f6c4-4f0b-96b5-f5e1125b0845@xs4all.nl/
> 
> There are two topics already for the upcoming Media Summit:
> 
> Paul Kocialkowski:
> Stateless video encoding uAPI
> 
> Hans Verkuil:
> Status of Media CI/Multi-committers
> Duration guesstimate: 1 hour

I would like to propose the following topic.

Review of the status of staging drivers

We have a set of 11 drivers in drivers/staging/media/, with various
states of maturity and development activity. drivers/staging/ is not
meant as a place for drivers to die, we should nudge the relevant
maintainers and consider dropping drivers that show no hope of
progressing.

-- 
Regards,

Laurent Pinchart

Re: [ANN] Registration and Request for Topics for the Media Summit on May 13th in Nice, France

[Mauro Carvalho Chehab]

Em Mon, 7 Apr 2025 22:39:09 +0300
Laurent Pinchart <laurent.pinchart@ideasonboard.com> escreveu:

> I would like to propose the following topic.
> 
> Review of the status of staging drivers
> 
> We have a set of 11 drivers in drivers/staging/media/, with various
> states of maturity and development activity.

On a quick look, we have there:

1. source "drivers/staging/media/atomisp/Kconfig"
2. source "drivers/staging/media/av7110/Kconfig"
3. source "drivers/staging/media/imx/Kconfig"
4. source "drivers/staging/media/ipu3/Kconfig"
5. source "drivers/staging/media/max96712/Kconfig"
6. source "drivers/staging/media/meson/vdec/Kconfig"
7. source "drivers/staging/media/rkvdec/Kconfig"
8. source "drivers/staging/media/starfive/Kconfig"
9. source "drivers/staging/media/sunxi/Kconfig"
10. source "drivers/staging/media/tegra-video/Kconfig"
11. source "drivers/staging/media/deprecated/atmel/Kconfig"

> drivers/staging/ is not meant as a place for drivers to die,

It is, actually: we usually move things there before dropping,
because, on most cases, they could be salvaged if someone is
interested on it.

> we should nudge the relevant
> maintainers and consider dropping drivers that show no hope of
> progressing.

Fully agreed.

-

Yet, while it makes sense to have action plans for drivers on staging,
I don't think that the Media Summit is the best place to discuss,
as people that might be involved with them may not be able to
participate there.

See, there are different situations there, like:

- platform drivers: at worse case, those should be removed when
  the core/DT support for such platform is removed. We removed
  several such drivers in the past. We can also remove them earlier,
  if there are reasons for doing that and nobody is complaining;

- drivers like atomisp that takes a lot of efforts to be promoted.
  As long as I see some progress (and we've been seeing progress
  on every kernel version), I can't see any reason why removing it.

- drivers like ipu3, which is for an entire family of PC CPUs.
  I prefer not dropping drivers like these unless we have very good
  reasons to do so. On the other hand, we are seeing very little
  progress on those.

Anyway, better to split this into different threads, copying
the people involved on the recent changes for such drivers.

Regards,
Mauro

Re: [ANN] Registration and Request for Topics for the Media Summit on May 13th in Nice, France

[Chen-Yu Tsai]

On Tue, Apr 8, 2025 at 1:32 PM Mauro Carvalho Chehab
<mchehab+huawei@kernel.org> wrote:
>
> Em Mon, 7 Apr 2025 22:39:09 +0300
> Laurent Pinchart <laurent.pinchart@ideasonboard.com> escreveu:
>
> > I would like to propose the following topic.
> >
> > Review of the status of staging drivers
> >
> > We have a set of 11 drivers in drivers/staging/media/, with various
> > states of maturity and development activity.
>
> On a quick look, we have there:
>
> 1. source "drivers/staging/media/atomisp/Kconfig"
> 2. source "drivers/staging/media/av7110/Kconfig"
> 3. source "drivers/staging/media/imx/Kconfig"
> 4. source "drivers/staging/media/ipu3/Kconfig"
> 5. source "drivers/staging/media/max96712/Kconfig"
> 6. source "drivers/staging/media/meson/vdec/Kconfig"
> 7. source "drivers/staging/media/rkvdec/Kconfig"
> 8. source "drivers/staging/media/starfive/Kconfig"
> 9. source "drivers/staging/media/sunxi/Kconfig"

This actually has two drivers:

a. cedrus

IIRC Paul has some more patches that are part of the stateless encoding
work. Those would finish the remaining TODO items. Even without those
I believe the existing decoding functionality is working fine.

b. sun6i-isp

This was also done by Paul during his time at Bootlin. However I don't
think anyone is using it, since the DT parts never landed.


ChenYu

> 10. source "drivers/staging/media/tegra-video/Kconfig"
> 11. source "drivers/staging/media/deprecated/atmel/Kconfig"
>
> > drivers/staging/ is not meant as a place for drivers to die,
>
> It is, actually: we usually move things there before dropping,
> because, on most cases, they could be salvaged if someone is
> interested on it.
>
> > we should nudge the relevant
> > maintainers and consider dropping drivers that show no hope of
> > progressing.
>
> Fully agreed.
>
> -
>
> Yet, while it makes sense to have action plans for drivers on staging,
> I don't think that the Media Summit is the best place to discuss,
> as people that might be involved with them may not be able to
> participate there.
>
> See, there are different situations there, like:
>
> - platform drivers: at worse case, those should be removed when
>   the core/DT support for such platform is removed. We removed
>   several such drivers in the past. We can also remove them earlier,
>   if there are reasons for doing that and nobody is complaining;
>
> - drivers like atomisp that takes a lot of efforts to be promoted.
>   As long as I see some progress (and we've been seeing progress
>   on every kernel version), I can't see any reason why removing it.
>
> - drivers like ipu3, which is for an entire family of PC CPUs.
>   I prefer not dropping drivers like these unless we have very good
>   reasons to do so. On the other hand, we are seeing very little
>   progress on those.
>
> Anyway, better to split this into different threads, copying
> the people involved on the recent changes for such drivers.
>
> Regards,
> Mauro
>

Re: [ANN] Registration and Request for Topics for the Media Summit on May 13th in Nice, France

[Paul Kocialkowski]

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Hi,

Le Tue 08 Apr 25, 14:32, Chen-Yu Tsai a écrit :
> On Tue, Apr 8, 2025 at 1:32 PM Mauro Carvalho Chehab
> <mchehab+huawei@kernel.org> wrote:
> >
> > Em Mon, 7 Apr 2025 22:39:09 +0300
> > Laurent Pinchart <laurent.pinchart@ideasonboard.com> escreveu:
> >
> > > I would like to propose the following topic.
> > >
> > > Review of the status of staging drivers
> > >
> > > We have a set of 11 drivers in drivers/staging/media/, with various
> > > states of maturity and development activity.
> >
> > On a quick look, we have there:
> >
> > 1. source "drivers/staging/media/atomisp/Kconfig"
> > 2. source "drivers/staging/media/av7110/Kconfig"
> > 3. source "drivers/staging/media/imx/Kconfig"
> > 4. source "drivers/staging/media/ipu3/Kconfig"
> > 5. source "drivers/staging/media/max96712/Kconfig"
> > 6. source "drivers/staging/media/meson/vdec/Kconfig"
> > 7. source "drivers/staging/media/rkvdec/Kconfig"
> > 8. source "drivers/staging/media/starfive/Kconfig"
> > 9. source "drivers/staging/media/sunxi/Kconfig"
> 
> This actually has two drivers:
> 
> a. cedrus
> 
> IIRC Paul has some more patches that are part of the stateless encoding
> work. Those would finish the remaining TODO items. Even without those
> I believe the existing decoding functionality is working fine.

Yes I did not get to that point yet but it's on my tasks list.

On the other hand I was told that it is displeasing and worrying for some
people to see the staging warning when the driver is loaded and so that it
would be good to unstage it ASAP, since indeed decode works well.

I feel like it's best to keep it in staging before its architecture is reworked.
But if everyone agrees that it makes no difference (i.e. architecture rework
patches would be accepted after unstaging) then it makes sense to unstage it
without waiting.

> b. sun6i-isp
> 
> This was also done by Paul during his time at Bootlin. However I don't
> think anyone is using it, since the DT parts never landed.

I was pretty sure the patches were ready to go at this point.
I can respin them, it would be a shame to trash all this work.

And people are definitely using it, I got a bunch of private emails about
the driver and know of a few companies/products using it.

Cheers,

Paul

> 
> ChenYu
> 
> > 10. source "drivers/staging/media/tegra-video/Kconfig"
> > 11. source "drivers/staging/media/deprecated/atmel/Kconfig"
> >
> > > drivers/staging/ is not meant as a place for drivers to die,
> >
> > It is, actually: we usually move things there before dropping,
> > because, on most cases, they could be salvaged if someone is
> > interested on it.
> >
> > > we should nudge the relevant
> > > maintainers and consider dropping drivers that show no hope of
> > > progressing.
> >
> > Fully agreed.
> >
> > -
> >
> > Yet, while it makes sense to have action plans for drivers on staging,
> > I don't think that the Media Summit is the best place to discuss,
> > as people that might be involved with them may not be able to
> > participate there.
> >
> > See, there are different situations there, like:
> >
> > - platform drivers: at worse case, those should be removed when
> >   the core/DT support for such platform is removed. We removed
> >   several such drivers in the past. We can also remove them earlier,
> >   if there are reasons for doing that and nobody is complaining;
> >
> > - drivers like atomisp that takes a lot of efforts to be promoted.
> >   As long as I see some progress (and we've been seeing progress
> >   on every kernel version), I can't see any reason why removing it.
> >
> > - drivers like ipu3, which is for an entire family of PC CPUs.
> >   I prefer not dropping drivers like these unless we have very good
> >   reasons to do so. On the other hand, we are seeing very little
> >   progress on those.
> >
> > Anyway, better to split this into different threads, copying
> > the people involved on the recent changes for such drivers.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Mauro
> >

-- 
Paul Kocialkowski,

Independent contractor - sys-base - https://www.sys-base.io/
Free software developer - https://www.paulk.fr/

Expert in multimedia, graphics and embedded hardware support with Linux.

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Re: [ANN] Registration and Request for Topics for the Media Summit on May 13th in Nice, France

[Hans Verkuil]

On 08/04/2025 07:31, Mauro Carvalho Chehab wrote:
> Em Mon, 7 Apr 2025 22:39:09 +0300
> Laurent Pinchart <laurent.pinchart@ideasonboard.com> escreveu:
> 
>> I would like to propose the following topic.
>>
>> Review of the status of staging drivers
>>
>> We have a set of 11 drivers in drivers/staging/media/, with various
>> states of maturity and development activity.
> 
> On a quick look, we have there:
> 
> 1. source "drivers/staging/media/atomisp/Kconfig"
> 2. source "drivers/staging/media/av7110/Kconfig"
> 3. source "drivers/staging/media/imx/Kconfig"
> 4. source "drivers/staging/media/ipu3/Kconfig"
> 5. source "drivers/staging/media/max96712/Kconfig"
> 6. source "drivers/staging/media/meson/vdec/Kconfig"
> 7. source "drivers/staging/media/rkvdec/Kconfig"
> 8. source "drivers/staging/media/starfive/Kconfig"
> 9. source "drivers/staging/media/sunxi/Kconfig"
> 10. source "drivers/staging/media/tegra-video/Kconfig"
> 11. source "drivers/staging/media/deprecated/atmel/Kconfig"
> 
>> drivers/staging/ is not meant as a place for drivers to die,
> 
> It is, actually: we usually move things there before dropping,
> because, on most cases, they could be salvaged if someone is
> interested on it.
> 
>> we should nudge the relevant
>> maintainers and consider dropping drivers that show no hope of
>> progressing.
> 
> Fully agreed.
> 
> -
> 
> Yet, while it makes sense to have action plans for drivers on staging,
> I don't think that the Media Summit is the best place to discuss,
> as people that might be involved with them may not be able to
> participate there.

Actually, I think quite a few of the relevant people will be there.

And I think it doesn't hurt to go through the list once a year.

Regards,

	Hans

> 
> See, there are different situations there, like:
> 
> - platform drivers: at worse case, those should be removed when
>   the core/DT support for such platform is removed. We removed
>   several such drivers in the past. We can also remove them earlier,
>   if there are reasons for doing that and nobody is complaining;
> 
> - drivers like atomisp that takes a lot of efforts to be promoted.
>   As long as I see some progress (and we've been seeing progress
>   on every kernel version), I can't see any reason why removing it.
> 
> - drivers like ipu3, which is for an entire family of PC CPUs.
>   I prefer not dropping drivers like these unless we have very good
>   reasons to do so. On the other hand, we are seeing very little
>   progress on those.
> 
> Anyway, better to split this into different threads, copying
> the people involved on the recent changes for such drivers.
> 
> Regards,
> Mauro

Re: [ANN] Registration and Request for Topics for the Media Summit on May 13th in Nice, France

[Mauro Carvalho Chehab]

Em Tue, 8 Apr 2025 08:42:58 +0200
Hans Verkuil <hverkuil@xs4all.nl> escreveu:

> On 08/04/2025 07:31, Mauro Carvalho Chehab wrote:
> > Em Mon, 7 Apr 2025 22:39:09 +0300
> > Laurent Pinchart <laurent.pinchart@ideasonboard.com> escreveu:
> >   
> >> I would like to propose the following topic.
> >>
> >> Review of the status of staging drivers
> >>
> >> We have a set of 11 drivers in drivers/staging/media/, with various
> >> states of maturity and development activity.  
> > 
> > On a quick look, we have there:
> > 
> > 1. source "drivers/staging/media/atomisp/Kconfig"
> > 2. source "drivers/staging/media/av7110/Kconfig"
> > 3. source "drivers/staging/media/imx/Kconfig"
> > 4. source "drivers/staging/media/ipu3/Kconfig"
> > 5. source "drivers/staging/media/max96712/Kconfig"
> > 6. source "drivers/staging/media/meson/vdec/Kconfig"
> > 7. source "drivers/staging/media/rkvdec/Kconfig"
> > 8. source "drivers/staging/media/starfive/Kconfig"
> > 9. source "drivers/staging/media/sunxi/Kconfig"
> > 10. source "drivers/staging/media/tegra-video/Kconfig"
> > 11. source "drivers/staging/media/deprecated/atmel/Kconfig"
> >   
> >> drivers/staging/ is not meant as a place for drivers to die,  
> > 
> > It is, actually: we usually move things there before dropping,
> > because, on most cases, they could be salvaged if someone is
> > interested on it.
> >   
> >> we should nudge the relevant
> >> maintainers and consider dropping drivers that show no hope of
> >> progressing.  
> > 
> > Fully agreed.
> > 
> > -
> > 
> > Yet, while it makes sense to have action plans for drivers on staging,
> > I don't think that the Media Summit is the best place to discuss,
> > as people that might be involved with them may not be able to
> > participate there.  
> 
> Actually, I think quite a few of the relevant people will be there.

Good! Still, before taking any decisions/actions of dropping drivers,
we'll need to have discussions via ML.

> And I think it doesn't hurt to go through the list once a year.

Sure.

> 
> Regards,
> 
> 	Hans
> 
> > 
> > See, there are different situations there, like:
> > 
> > - platform drivers: at worse case, those should be removed when
> >   the core/DT support for such platform is removed. We removed
> >   several such drivers in the past. We can also remove them earlier,
> >   if there are reasons for doing that and nobody is complaining;
> > 
> > - drivers like atomisp that takes a lot of efforts to be promoted.
> >   As long as I see some progress (and we've been seeing progress
> >   on every kernel version), I can't see any reason why removing it.
> > 
> > - drivers like ipu3, which is for an entire family of PC CPUs.
> >   I prefer not dropping drivers like these unless we have very good
> >   reasons to do so. On the other hand, we are seeing very little
> >   progress on those.
> > 
> > Anyway, better to split this into different threads, copying
> > the people involved on the recent changes for such drivers.
> > 
> > Regards,
> > Mauro  
> 

Re: [ANN] Registration and Request for Topics for the Media Summit on May 13th in Nice, France

[Laurent Pinchart]

Hi Mauro,

On Tue, Apr 08, 2025 at 01:31:42PM +0800, Mauro Carvalho Chehab wrote:
> Em Mon, 7 Apr 2025 22:39:09 +0300 Laurent Pinchart escreveu:
> 
> > I would like to propose the following topic.
> > 
> > Review of the status of staging drivers
> > 
> > We have a set of 11 drivers in drivers/staging/media/, with various
> > states of maturity and development activity.
> 
> On a quick look, we have there:
> 
> 1. source "drivers/staging/media/atomisp/Kconfig"
> 2. source "drivers/staging/media/av7110/Kconfig"
> 3. source "drivers/staging/media/imx/Kconfig"
> 4. source "drivers/staging/media/ipu3/Kconfig"
> 5. source "drivers/staging/media/max96712/Kconfig"
> 6. source "drivers/staging/media/meson/vdec/Kconfig"
> 7. source "drivers/staging/media/rkvdec/Kconfig"
> 8. source "drivers/staging/media/starfive/Kconfig"
> 9. source "drivers/staging/media/sunxi/Kconfig"
> 10. source "drivers/staging/media/tegra-video/Kconfig"
> 11. source "drivers/staging/media/deprecated/atmel/Kconfig"
> 
> > drivers/staging/ is not meant as a place for drivers to die,
> 
> It is, actually: we usually move things there before dropping,
> because, on most cases, they could be salvaged if someone is
> interested on it.

I should have be clearer in my e-mail. We indeed use staging in two
different ways, for drivers to go in the kernel, and drivers to get out.
The latter is handled by the drivers/staging/media/deprecated/
directory. As I wanted to focus on drivers going in, I ignored that side
for the purpose of this discussion. I see no issue with moving drivers
to deprecated/ for a few releases before deleting them completely.

For drivers that are merged in the kernel through staging, however, my
opinion is that they're not meant to be left there to die, or they
shouldn't get merged in the first place.

> > we should nudge the relevant
> > maintainers and consider dropping drivers that show no hope of
> > progressing.
> 
> Fully agreed.
> 
> -
> 
> Yet, while it makes sense to have action plans for drivers on staging,
> I don't think that the Media Summit is the best place to discuss,
> as people that might be involved with them may not be able to
> participate there.

I'm not asking for final decisions on individual drivers to be made
there. The topic is about deciding on a subsystem policy, communicating
it clearly, and finding the right incentives to ensure those drivers get
maintained and eventually graduate to drivers/media/.

> See, there are different situations there, like:
> 
> - platform drivers: at worse case, those should be removed when
>   the core/DT support for such platform is removed. We removed
>   several such drivers in the past. We can also remove them earlier,
>   if there are reasons for doing that and nobody is complaining;
> 
> - drivers like atomisp that takes a lot of efforts to be promoted.
>   As long as I see some progress (and we've been seeing progress
>   on every kernel version), I can't see any reason why removing it.
> 
> - drivers like ipu3, which is for an entire family of PC CPUs.
>   I prefer not dropping drivers like these unless we have very good
>   reasons to do so. On the other hand, we are seeing very little
>   progress on those.
> 
> Anyway, better to split this into different threads, copying
> the people involved on the recent changes for such drivers.

-- 
Regards,

Laurent Pinchart

Re: [ANN] Registration and Request for Topics for the Media Summit on May 13th in Nice, France

[Hans Verkuil]

On 07/04/2025 21:39, Laurent Pinchart wrote:
> Hi Hans,
> 
> On Fri, Mar 14, 2025 at 10:59:58AM +0100, Hans Verkuil wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> We will organize another Media Summit on Tuesday May 13th to coincide with
>> the Embedded Recipes Conference in Nice, France:
>>
>> https://embedded-recipes.org/2025/
>>
>> Note that there are also some workshops held after this conference:
>>
>> https://embedded-recipes.org/2025/workshops/
>>
>> And apparently a gStreamer event during the weekend. If anyone has more
>> details about this, please reply to this post.
>>
>> The Media Summit will be held at Hotel Campanile:
>>
>> https://nice-aeroport.campanile.com/en-us/
>>
>> It is close to the Airport and to the Embedded Recipes venue.
>>
>> The meeting room can hold up to 30 people and has video conferencing support.
>>
>> That said, I want to keep remote participation to a minimum. This yearly summit is meant
>> for active media developers to meet up face-to-face and to discuss media subsystem issues.
>> But if you are an active media developer and are really not able to attend in person, then
>> remote participation is an option.
>>
>> If you want to attend the meeting (either in person or remote), then send an email to me
>> directly. The deadline for that is May 2nd as the hotel needs to know the final number of
>> attendees by then. We have more seats available than last year, so I do not expect to run out.
>> In the unlikely case that this becomes a problem, then I will revisit this.
>>
>> There is no registration fee.
>>
>> If you have a topic that you want to discuss, just 'Reply All' to this announcement.
>> It would be very much appreciated if you can also add a guesstimate of the time
>> you need for your topic.
>>
>> See last year's Media Summit Report as an example of what to expect:
>>
>> https://lore.kernel.org/linux-media/45e4f5d4-f6c4-4f0b-96b5-f5e1125b0845@xs4all.nl/
>>
>> There are two topics already for the upcoming Media Summit:
>>
>> Paul Kocialkowski:
>> Stateless video encoding uAPI
>>
>> Hans Verkuil:
>> Status of Media CI/Multi-committers
>> Duration guesstimate: 1 hour
> 
> I would like to propose the following topic.
> 
> Review of the status of staging drivers
> 
> We have a set of 11 drivers in drivers/staging/media/, with various
> states of maturity and development activity. drivers/staging/ is not
> meant as a place for drivers to die, we should nudge the relevant
> maintainers and consider dropping drivers that show no hope of
> progressing.

Excellent topic!

Regards,

	Hans