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From: David Daney <ddaney@caviumnetworks.com>
To: Rich Felker <dalias@libc.org>
Cc: David Daney <david.s.daney@gmail.com>,
	Andy Lutomirski <luto@amacapital.net>,
	David Daney <ddaney.cavm@gmail.com>, <libc-alpha@sourceware.org>,
	<linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>, <linux-mips@linux-mips.org>,
	David Daney <david.daney@cavium.com>
Subject: Re: [PATCH resend] MIPS: Allow FPU emulator to use non-stack area.
Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2014 09:08:51 -0700	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <54341013.2030509@caviumnetworks.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20141007111102.GH23797@brightrain.aerifal.cx>

On 10/07/2014 04:11 AM, Rich Felker wrote:
> On Mon, Oct 06, 2014 at 09:50:47PM -0700, David Daney wrote:
>>>> the out-of-line execution trick, but do it somewhere other than in
>>>> stack memory.
>>> How do you answer Andy Lutomirski's question about what happens when a
>>> signal handler interrupts execution while the program counter is
>>> pointing at this "out-of-line execution" trampoline? This seems like a
>>> show-stopper for using anything other than the stack.
>> It would be nice to support, but not doing so would not be a
>> regression from current behavior.
>
> It's not just "nice" to support, it's mandatory. Otherwise you will
> execute essentially *random instructions* in this case, providing a
> very nice attack vector that can almost certainly be elevated to
> arbitrary code execution via timing of signals during floating point
> code.
>
> The current behavior in regards to this is correct: because you have a
> *stack*, each trampoline is pushed onto the stack in its own context,
> and popped when it's no longer needed. You can have arbitrarily many
> such trampolines up to the stack size. Note that each nested signal
> handler already requires sizeof(ucontext_t) in stack space, so these
> trampolines are a negligible additional cost without major effects on
> the number of signal handlers you can nest without overflowing the
> stack.

Yes, the stack takes care of the allocations, but the current 
implementation has many problems:

1) Signals clobber the emulation area.
2) Signals caused by the emulation, have incorrect saved machine state.

We have a low bar to pass, any new solution doesn't have to be perfect, 
it only has to be an improvement.

Keep in mind that we are not starting from a clean slate, there are many 
years of legacy code that has built up here.

David Daney

WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: David Daney <ddaney@caviumnetworks.com>
To: Rich Felker <dalias@libc.org>
Cc: David Daney <david.s.daney@gmail.com>,
	Andy Lutomirski <luto@amacapital.net>,
	David Daney <ddaney.cavm@gmail.com>,
	libc-alpha@sourceware.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org,
	linux-mips@linux-mips.org, David Daney <david.daney@cavium.com>
Subject: Re: [PATCH resend] MIPS: Allow FPU emulator to use non-stack area.
Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2014 09:08:51 -0700	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <54341013.2030509@caviumnetworks.com> (raw)
Message-ID: <20141007160851.v-yV5YexLhJieEqWM5Ws4Id09lO0cqOZutJLYpJoSg0@z> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20141007111102.GH23797@brightrain.aerifal.cx>

On 10/07/2014 04:11 AM, Rich Felker wrote:
> On Mon, Oct 06, 2014 at 09:50:47PM -0700, David Daney wrote:
>>>> the out-of-line execution trick, but do it somewhere other than in
>>>> stack memory.
>>> How do you answer Andy Lutomirski's question about what happens when a
>>> signal handler interrupts execution while the program counter is
>>> pointing at this "out-of-line execution" trampoline? This seems like a
>>> show-stopper for using anything other than the stack.
>> It would be nice to support, but not doing so would not be a
>> regression from current behavior.
>
> It's not just "nice" to support, it's mandatory. Otherwise you will
> execute essentially *random instructions* in this case, providing a
> very nice attack vector that can almost certainly be elevated to
> arbitrary code execution via timing of signals during floating point
> code.
>
> The current behavior in regards to this is correct: because you have a
> *stack*, each trampoline is pushed onto the stack in its own context,
> and popped when it's no longer needed. You can have arbitrarily many
> such trampolines up to the stack size. Note that each nested signal
> handler already requires sizeof(ucontext_t) in stack space, so these
> trampolines are a negligible additional cost without major effects on
> the number of signal handlers you can nest without overflowing the
> stack.

Yes, the stack takes care of the allocations, but the current 
implementation has many problems:

1) Signals clobber the emulation area.
2) Signals caused by the emulation, have incorrect saved machine state.

We have a low bar to pass, any new solution doesn't have to be perfect, 
it only has to be an improvement.

Keep in mind that we are not starting from a clean slate, there are many 
years of legacy code that has built up here.

David Daney

  reply	other threads:[~2014-10-07 16:09 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 63+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2014-10-06 20:23 [PATCH resend] MIPS: Allow FPU emulator to use non-stack area David Daney
2014-10-06 20:54 ` Rich Felker
2014-10-06 21:18   ` David Daney
2014-10-06 21:18     ` David Daney
2014-10-06 21:31     ` Rich Felker
2014-10-06 21:45       ` David Daney
2014-10-06 21:45         ` David Daney
2014-10-06 21:58         ` Rich Felker
2014-10-06 22:17           ` David Daney
2014-10-06 22:17             ` David Daney
2014-10-06 23:08             ` Rich Felker
2014-10-06 23:38           ` Andy Lutomirski
2014-10-06 23:48             ` David Daney
2014-10-06 23:48               ` David Daney
2014-10-06 23:54               ` Andy Lutomirski
2014-10-07  0:05               ` Rich Felker
2014-10-07  0:11                 ` Andrew Pinski
2014-10-07  0:21                   ` Rich Felker
2014-10-07  0:28                     ` Andrew Pinski
2014-10-07  0:29                       ` Andy Lutomirski
2014-10-07  0:32                         ` David Daney
2014-10-07  0:33                 ` David Daney
2014-10-07  0:33                   ` David Daney
2014-10-07  0:48                   ` Andy Lutomirski
2014-10-07  0:49                   ` Rich Felker
2014-10-07  4:50                     ` David Daney
2014-10-07  9:13                       ` Matthew Fortune
2014-10-07  9:13                         ` Matthew Fortune
2014-10-07 10:52                         ` James Hogan
2014-10-07 11:19                         ` Rich Felker
2014-10-07 16:04                         ` David Daney
2014-10-07 18:32                         ` Leonid Yegoshin
2014-10-07 18:43                           ` David Daney
2014-10-07 19:13                             ` Leonid Yegoshin
2014-10-07 18:44                           ` Andy Lutomirski
2014-10-07 18:50                             ` David Daney
2014-10-07 19:09                             ` Rich Felker
2014-10-07 19:16                               ` Leonid Yegoshin
2014-10-07 19:21                                 ` Rich Felker
2014-10-07 19:27                                   ` Leonid Yegoshin
2014-10-07 19:28                                   ` Andy Lutomirski
2014-10-07 20:03                                     ` David Daney
2014-10-08  0:22                                       ` Andy Lutomirski
2014-10-07 19:40                             ` Matthew Fortune
2014-10-07 11:11                       ` Rich Felker
2014-10-07 16:08                         ` David Daney [this message]
2014-10-07 16:08                           ` David Daney
2014-10-07 18:16                           ` Andy Lutomirski
2014-10-07 23:20     ` Ralf Baechle
2014-10-07 23:59       ` David Daney
2014-10-07 23:59         ` David Daney
2014-10-08  0:18         ` Chuck Ebbert
2014-10-08  0:18           ` Chuck Ebbert
2014-10-08  2:37           ` Rich Felker
2014-10-08 10:31         ` Paul Burton
2014-10-08 10:31           ` Paul Burton
2014-10-07  1:02 ` Kevin D. Kissell
2014-10-07  1:38   ` Rich Felker
2014-10-07  4:32   ` David Daney
2014-10-07 11:53     ` James Hogan
2014-10-07 11:53       ` James Hogan
2014-10-07 12:22       ` James Hogan
2014-10-07 12:22         ` James Hogan

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