From: David Daney <ddaney@caviumnetworks.com>
To: Rich Felker <dalias@libc.org>
Cc: David Daney <david.s.daney@gmail.com>,
Andy Lutomirski <luto@amacapital.net>,
David Daney <ddaney.cavm@gmail.com>, <libc-alpha@sourceware.org>,
<linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>, <linux-mips@linux-mips.org>,
David Daney <david.daney@cavium.com>
Subject: Re: [PATCH resend] MIPS: Allow FPU emulator to use non-stack area.
Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2014 09:08:51 -0700 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <54341013.2030509@caviumnetworks.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20141007111102.GH23797@brightrain.aerifal.cx>
On 10/07/2014 04:11 AM, Rich Felker wrote:
> On Mon, Oct 06, 2014 at 09:50:47PM -0700, David Daney wrote:
>>>> the out-of-line execution trick, but do it somewhere other than in
>>>> stack memory.
>>> How do you answer Andy Lutomirski's question about what happens when a
>>> signal handler interrupts execution while the program counter is
>>> pointing at this "out-of-line execution" trampoline? This seems like a
>>> show-stopper for using anything other than the stack.
>> It would be nice to support, but not doing so would not be a
>> regression from current behavior.
>
> It's not just "nice" to support, it's mandatory. Otherwise you will
> execute essentially *random instructions* in this case, providing a
> very nice attack vector that can almost certainly be elevated to
> arbitrary code execution via timing of signals during floating point
> code.
>
> The current behavior in regards to this is correct: because you have a
> *stack*, each trampoline is pushed onto the stack in its own context,
> and popped when it's no longer needed. You can have arbitrarily many
> such trampolines up to the stack size. Note that each nested signal
> handler already requires sizeof(ucontext_t) in stack space, so these
> trampolines are a negligible additional cost without major effects on
> the number of signal handlers you can nest without overflowing the
> stack.
Yes, the stack takes care of the allocations, but the current
implementation has many problems:
1) Signals clobber the emulation area.
2) Signals caused by the emulation, have incorrect saved machine state.
We have a low bar to pass, any new solution doesn't have to be perfect,
it only has to be an improvement.
Keep in mind that we are not starting from a clean slate, there are many
years of legacy code that has built up here.
David Daney
WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: David Daney <ddaney@caviumnetworks.com>
To: Rich Felker <dalias@libc.org>
Cc: David Daney <david.s.daney@gmail.com>,
Andy Lutomirski <luto@amacapital.net>,
David Daney <ddaney.cavm@gmail.com>,
libc-alpha@sourceware.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org,
linux-mips@linux-mips.org, David Daney <david.daney@cavium.com>
Subject: Re: [PATCH resend] MIPS: Allow FPU emulator to use non-stack area.
Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2014 09:08:51 -0700 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <54341013.2030509@caviumnetworks.com> (raw)
Message-ID: <20141007160851.v-yV5YexLhJieEqWM5Ws4Id09lO0cqOZutJLYpJoSg0@z> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20141007111102.GH23797@brightrain.aerifal.cx>
On 10/07/2014 04:11 AM, Rich Felker wrote:
> On Mon, Oct 06, 2014 at 09:50:47PM -0700, David Daney wrote:
>>>> the out-of-line execution trick, but do it somewhere other than in
>>>> stack memory.
>>> How do you answer Andy Lutomirski's question about what happens when a
>>> signal handler interrupts execution while the program counter is
>>> pointing at this "out-of-line execution" trampoline? This seems like a
>>> show-stopper for using anything other than the stack.
>> It would be nice to support, but not doing so would not be a
>> regression from current behavior.
>
> It's not just "nice" to support, it's mandatory. Otherwise you will
> execute essentially *random instructions* in this case, providing a
> very nice attack vector that can almost certainly be elevated to
> arbitrary code execution via timing of signals during floating point
> code.
>
> The current behavior in regards to this is correct: because you have a
> *stack*, each trampoline is pushed onto the stack in its own context,
> and popped when it's no longer needed. You can have arbitrarily many
> such trampolines up to the stack size. Note that each nested signal
> handler already requires sizeof(ucontext_t) in stack space, so these
> trampolines are a negligible additional cost without major effects on
> the number of signal handlers you can nest without overflowing the
> stack.
Yes, the stack takes care of the allocations, but the current
implementation has many problems:
1) Signals clobber the emulation area.
2) Signals caused by the emulation, have incorrect saved machine state.
We have a low bar to pass, any new solution doesn't have to be perfect,
it only has to be an improvement.
Keep in mind that we are not starting from a clean slate, there are many
years of legacy code that has built up here.
David Daney
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2014-10-07 16:09 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 63+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2014-10-06 20:23 [PATCH resend] MIPS: Allow FPU emulator to use non-stack area David Daney
2014-10-06 20:54 ` Rich Felker
2014-10-06 21:18 ` David Daney
2014-10-06 21:18 ` David Daney
2014-10-06 21:31 ` Rich Felker
2014-10-06 21:45 ` David Daney
2014-10-06 21:45 ` David Daney
2014-10-06 21:58 ` Rich Felker
2014-10-06 22:17 ` David Daney
2014-10-06 22:17 ` David Daney
2014-10-06 23:08 ` Rich Felker
2014-10-06 23:38 ` Andy Lutomirski
2014-10-06 23:48 ` David Daney
2014-10-06 23:48 ` David Daney
2014-10-06 23:54 ` Andy Lutomirski
2014-10-07 0:05 ` Rich Felker
2014-10-07 0:11 ` Andrew Pinski
2014-10-07 0:21 ` Rich Felker
2014-10-07 0:28 ` Andrew Pinski
2014-10-07 0:29 ` Andy Lutomirski
2014-10-07 0:32 ` David Daney
2014-10-07 0:33 ` David Daney
2014-10-07 0:33 ` David Daney
2014-10-07 0:48 ` Andy Lutomirski
2014-10-07 0:49 ` Rich Felker
2014-10-07 4:50 ` David Daney
2014-10-07 9:13 ` Matthew Fortune
2014-10-07 9:13 ` Matthew Fortune
2014-10-07 10:52 ` James Hogan
2014-10-07 11:19 ` Rich Felker
2014-10-07 16:04 ` David Daney
2014-10-07 18:32 ` Leonid Yegoshin
2014-10-07 18:43 ` David Daney
2014-10-07 19:13 ` Leonid Yegoshin
2014-10-07 18:44 ` Andy Lutomirski
2014-10-07 18:50 ` David Daney
2014-10-07 19:09 ` Rich Felker
2014-10-07 19:16 ` Leonid Yegoshin
2014-10-07 19:21 ` Rich Felker
2014-10-07 19:27 ` Leonid Yegoshin
2014-10-07 19:28 ` Andy Lutomirski
2014-10-07 20:03 ` David Daney
2014-10-08 0:22 ` Andy Lutomirski
2014-10-07 19:40 ` Matthew Fortune
2014-10-07 11:11 ` Rich Felker
2014-10-07 16:08 ` David Daney [this message]
2014-10-07 16:08 ` David Daney
2014-10-07 18:16 ` Andy Lutomirski
2014-10-07 23:20 ` Ralf Baechle
2014-10-07 23:59 ` David Daney
2014-10-07 23:59 ` David Daney
2014-10-08 0:18 ` Chuck Ebbert
2014-10-08 0:18 ` Chuck Ebbert
2014-10-08 2:37 ` Rich Felker
2014-10-08 10:31 ` Paul Burton
2014-10-08 10:31 ` Paul Burton
2014-10-07 1:02 ` Kevin D. Kissell
2014-10-07 1:38 ` Rich Felker
2014-10-07 4:32 ` David Daney
2014-10-07 11:53 ` James Hogan
2014-10-07 11:53 ` James Hogan
2014-10-07 12:22 ` James Hogan
2014-10-07 12:22 ` James Hogan
Reply instructions:
You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:
* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
and reply-to-all from there: mbox
Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style
* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
switches of git-send-email(1):
git send-email \
--in-reply-to=54341013.2030509@caviumnetworks.com \
--to=ddaney@caviumnetworks.com \
--cc=dalias@libc.org \
--cc=david.daney@cavium.com \
--cc=david.s.daney@gmail.com \
--cc=ddaney.cavm@gmail.com \
--cc=libc-alpha@sourceware.org \
--cc=linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org \
--cc=linux-mips@linux-mips.org \
--cc=luto@amacapital.net \
/path/to/YOUR_REPLY
https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html
* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line
before the message body.
This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox