From: Niklas Cassel <cassel@kernel.org>
To: Christoph Hellwig <hch@lst.de>
Cc: Damien Le Moal <dlemoal@kernel.org>,
John Garry <john.garry@linux.dev>,
"James E.J. Bottomley" <James.Bottomley@hansenpartnership.com>,
"Martin K. Petersen" <mkp@kernel.org>,
linux-scsi@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: [PATCH 2/2] scsi: scsi_debug: Validate zone access for WRITE ATOMIC (16)
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2026 09:27:59 +0200 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <aqzn_y5A0w3KQiFh@ryzen> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20260918070641.GA10655@lst.de>
Hello Christoph,
On Fri, Sep 18, 2026 at 09:06:41AM +0200, Christoph Hellwig wrote:
> On Fri, Sep 18, 2026 at 01:15:36PM +0700, Damien Le Moal wrote:
> > Sure, but it may not be that simple in practice because achieving atomic writes
> > on HDD is not that simple: even though most modern HDDs do have some form of
> > atomicity for single sector writes (e.g. on EPO events), even that is not
> > guaranteed at all. So let's not assume anything that may end up being different
> > than what a real implementation may do.
>
> Besides that the whole concept of atomic writes on sequential write
> required zones does not make much sense.
>
> Atomic writes are about atomic updates of multiple sectors, but
> sequential write required zoned never update existing data. So the best
> they could provide is to guarantee that either all or nothing of a single
> command is appended at the write pointer. It is very hard to find a way
> to use this feature, as zoned writes all require metadata updates to
> point to the current location, and without this the data won't be
> reached. There are some schemes to optimizes this by doing a zoned write
> with a header containing the location as a sort of distributed log (zenfs
> in userspace would be the canonical example), but even with that a torn
> write would invalidate the recovery of this header.
>
> In other words, there really is no point in supporting atomic writes on
> ZBC. So we should not implement it in scsi_debug, and disable the
> feature in sd. If we ever see real hardware and a real use case we can
> reconsider, but I doubt it is going to happen.
I have just sent out a new version of this series, and in this patch:
https://lore.kernel.org/linux-scsi/20260918062910.1709791-14-cassel@kernel.org/
a combination of ZBC and atomic writes is rejected by scsi_debug.
This series does not touch sd.c, so changes to sd.c should be a separate patch.
From you reply, it is obvious that you would be able to write a sd.c patch with
a better motivation than anything that I would attempt to cook up.
Kind regards,
Niklas
prev parent reply other threads:[~2026-09-18 7:28 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 21+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2026-09-17 8:45 [PATCH 0/2] scsi: scsi_debug: fix zoned write validation Niklas Cassel
2026-09-17 8:45 ` [PATCH 1/2] scsi: scsi_debug: Enforce physical block alignment of zoned writes Niklas Cassel
2026-09-17 9:05 ` Damien Le Moal
2026-09-17 10:42 ` Niklas Cassel
2026-09-17 8:45 ` [PATCH 2/2] scsi: scsi_debug: Validate zone access for WRITE ATOMIC (16) Niklas Cassel
2026-09-17 9:00 ` sashiko-bot
2026-09-17 9:09 ` Niklas Cassel
2026-09-17 9:07 ` Damien Le Moal
2026-09-17 9:38 ` John Garry
2026-09-17 9:56 ` Niklas Cassel
2026-09-17 10:26 ` John Garry
2026-09-17 10:35 ` Niklas Cassel
2026-09-17 15:42 ` John Garry
2026-09-17 16:10 ` Niklas Cassel
2026-09-17 16:40 ` John Garry
2026-09-17 17:37 ` Niklas Cassel
2026-09-18 2:27 ` Damien Le Moal
2026-09-18 5:37 ` Niklas Cassel
2026-09-18 6:15 ` Damien Le Moal
2026-09-18 7:06 ` Christoph Hellwig
2026-09-18 7:27 ` Niklas Cassel [this message]
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