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From: Alan Stern <stern@rowland.harvard.edu>
To: Tetsuo Handa <penguin-kernel@i-love.sakura.ne.jp>
Cc: Greg Kroah-Hartman <gregkh@linuxfoundation.org>,
	"Rafael J. Wysocki" <rafael@kernel.org>,
	LKML <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	USB list <linux-usb@vger.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: Converting dev->mutex into dev->spinlock ?
Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2023 10:40:52 -0500	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <Y958hOvtqq7Uiu0G@rowland.harvard.edu> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <e89ad942-cab6-fad1-1cc2-98885d829ea7@I-love.SAKURA.ne.jp>

On Sun, Feb 05, 2023 at 12:30:07AM +0900, Tetsuo Handa wrote:
> On 2023/02/05 0:12, Alan Stern wrote:
> >>  it would solve many deadlocks in driver code if you can update
> > 
> > What deadlocks?  If there are so many deadlocks floating around in 
> > driver code, why haven't we heard about them before now?
> 
> Since dev->mutex is hidden from lockdep checks, nobody can see lockdep warnings.
> syzbot is reporting real deadlocks without lockdep warnings, for the fundamental
> problem you mentioned in https://lkml.kernel.org/r/Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0804171117450.18040-100000@iolanthe.rowland.org
> is remaining. I'm suggesting you that now is time to address this fundamental problem.

Maybe so.  But the place to address it is inside lockdep, not in the 
driver core.

> >> (by e.g. replacing dev->mutex with dev->spinlock and dev->atomic_flags).
> >> But I'm not familiar enough to propose such change...
> > 
> > Such a change cannot be made.  Consider this: Driver callbacks often
> > need to sleep.  But when a thread holds a spinlock, it is not allowed to 
> > sleep.  Therefore driver callbacks must not be invoked while a spinlock 
> > is held.
> 
> What I'm suggesting is "Do not call driver callbacks with dev->mutex held,
> by rewriting driver core code".

That cannot be done.  The only possible solution is to teach lockdep how 
to handle recursive locking structures.

Alan Stern

      reply	other threads:[~2023-02-04 15:41 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 75+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2023-02-04 13:32 Converting dev->mutex into dev->spinlock ? Tetsuo Handa
2023-02-04 13:47 ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2023-02-04 14:21   ` Tetsuo Handa
2023-02-04 14:34     ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2023-02-04 15:16       ` Tetsuo Handa
2023-02-04 15:34     ` Alan Stern
2023-02-04 16:12       ` Tetsuo Handa
2023-02-04 16:27         ` Alan Stern
2023-02-04 17:09           ` Tetsuo Handa
2023-02-04 20:01             ` Alan Stern
2023-02-04 20:14               ` Linus Torvalds
2023-02-05  1:23                 ` Alan Stern
2023-02-06 14:13                   ` Tetsuo Handa
2023-02-06 15:45                     ` Alan Stern
2023-02-07 13:07                       ` Tetsuo Handa
2023-02-07 17:46                         ` Alan Stern
2023-02-07 22:17                           ` Tetsuo Handa
2023-02-08  0:34                             ` Alan Stern
     [not found]                             ` <20230208080739.1649-1-hdanton@sina.com>
2023-02-08 10:30                               ` [PATCH] drivers/core: Replace lockdep_set_novalidate_class() with unique class keys Tetsuo Handa
2023-02-08 15:07                                 ` Alan Stern
2023-02-09  0:22                                   ` Tetsuo Handa
2023-02-09  0:46                                     ` Linus Torvalds
2023-02-09  1:50                                       ` Tetsuo Handa
2023-02-09  2:26                                     ` Alan Stern
2023-02-11  2:04                                       ` Tetsuo Handa
2023-02-11 21:41                                         ` [PATCH RFC] " Alan Stern
2023-02-11 21:51                                           ` Linus Torvalds
2023-02-11 23:06                                             ` Kent Overstreet
2023-02-11 23:08                                               ` Kent Overstreet
2023-02-11 23:24                                               ` Kent Overstreet
2023-02-12  2:40                                                 ` Alan Stern
2023-02-12  2:46                                                   ` Kent Overstreet
2023-02-12  3:03                                                     ` Alan Stern
2023-02-12  3:10                                                       ` Kent Overstreet
2023-02-12 15:23                                                         ` Alan Stern
2023-02-12 19:14                                                           ` Kent Overstreet
2023-02-12 20:19                                                             ` Alan Stern
2023-02-12 20:51                                                               ` Kent Overstreet
2023-02-13  1:23                                                                 ` Alan Stern
2023-02-13  2:21                                                                   ` Kent Overstreet
2023-02-13 15:25                                                                     ` Alan Stern
2023-02-13  9:29                                                                 ` Peter Zijlstra
2023-02-13  9:27                                                               ` Peter Zijlstra
2023-02-13 15:28                                                                 ` Alan Stern
2023-02-13 16:36                                                                   ` Peter Zijlstra
2023-02-13  9:24                                                           ` Peter Zijlstra
2023-02-13 15:25                                                             ` Alan Stern
2023-02-13 16:29                                                               ` Peter Zijlstra
2023-02-14  1:51                                                                 ` Boqun Feng
2023-02-14  1:53                                                                   ` Boqun Feng
2023-02-14  2:03                                                                   ` Alan Stern
2023-02-14  2:09                                                                     ` Boqun Feng
     [not found]                                                                     ` <20230214052733.3354-1-hdanton@sina.com>
2023-02-14  5:55                                                                       ` Boqun Feng
2023-02-14 10:48                                                                   ` Peter Zijlstra
2023-02-14 16:22                                                                     ` Boqun Feng
2023-02-15 10:45                                                                       ` Peter Zijlstra
2023-02-20 17:32                                                                         ` Boqun Feng
2023-02-13 18:46                                                             ` Kent Overstreet
2023-02-14 11:05                                                               ` Peter Zijlstra
2023-02-14 20:05                                                                 ` Alan Stern
2023-02-15 10:33                                                                   ` Peter Zijlstra
2023-02-14 20:16                                                                 ` Kent Overstreet
     [not found]                                               ` <20230212013220.2678-1-hdanton@sina.com>
2023-02-12  1:52                                                 ` Kent Overstreet
2023-02-13  9:49                                           ` Peter Zijlstra
2023-02-13 16:18                                             ` Alan Stern
2023-02-13 17:51                                               ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2023-02-13 18:05                                                 ` Alan Stern
2023-02-05  1:31               ` Converting dev->mutex into dev->spinlock ? Tetsuo Handa
2023-02-05 16:46                 ` Alan Stern
     [not found]                 ` <20230206025629.1786-1-hdanton@sina.com>
2023-02-06  4:44                   ` Matthew Wilcox
2023-02-06  5:17                   ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
     [not found]                   ` <20230206064305.1838-1-hdanton@sina.com>
2023-02-06  6:48                     ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2023-02-04 15:12 ` Alan Stern
2023-02-04 15:30   ` Tetsuo Handa
2023-02-04 15:40     ` Alan Stern [this message]

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