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From: Johannes Berg <johannes@sipsolutions.net>
To: "M. Braun" <michael-dev@fami-braun.de>,
	"Linus Lüssing" <linus.luessing@c0d3.blue>
Cc: netdev@vger.kernel.org, bridge@lists.linux-foundation.org,
	linux-wireless@vger.kernel.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org,
	"David S . Miller" <davem@davemloft.net>,
	Felix Fietkau <nbd@nbd.name>
Subject: Re: [Bridge] [PATCH net-next] bridge: multicast to unicast
Date: Mon, 09 Jan 2017 13:15:59 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <1483964159.17582.34.camel@sipsolutions.net> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <6f5ec9f1-800a-2bc4-2f41-9d803343bb22@fami-braun.de>

On Mon, 2017-01-09 at 12:44 +0100, M. Braun wrote:
> Am 09.01.2017 um 09:08 schrieb Johannes Berg:
> > Does it make sense to implement the two in separate layers though?
> > 
> > Clearly, this part needs to be implemented in the bridge layer due
> > to
> > the snooping knowledge, but the code is very similar to what
> > mac80211
> > has now.
> 
> Does the bridge always know about all stations connected?
> 
> That is bridge fdb entries (need to) expire so the bridge might
> "forget" a still-connected station not sending but only consuming
> broadcast traffic.
> 
> E.g. there is a television broadcast station here that receives a
> video stream (via wifi, udp packets) and then airs it (dvb-t) but (on
> its own) would not send any data packet on wifi (static ip, etc.).

Ok, that I don't know. Somehow if you address a unicast packet there
the bridge has to make a decision - so it really should know? Would it
query the port somehow to see if the device is behind it, if getting a
packet for a station it forgot about?

> An other reason to implement this in mac80211 initially was that
> mac80211 could encapsulate broacast/multicast ethernet packtes in
> unicast A-MSDU packets in a way, so that the receiver would still see
> process ethernet packets (after conversion) but have unicast wifi
> frames. This cannot be done in bridge easily but one might want to
> add this later to mac80211.

Yes, DMG would have to be done in mac80211, but that's a lot clearer
case too since it requires negotiation functionality etc.

johannes

WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Johannes Berg <johannes@sipsolutions.net>
To: "M. Braun" <michael-dev@fami-braun.de>,
	"Linus Lüssing" <linus.luessing@c0d3.blue>
Cc: Felix Fietkau <nbd@nbd.name>,
	netdev@vger.kernel.org, "David S . Miller" <davem@davemloft.net>,
	Stephen Hemminger <stephen@networkplumber.org>,
	bridge@lists.linux-foundation.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org,
	linux-wireless@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: [PATCH net-next] bridge: multicast to unicast
Date: Mon, 09 Jan 2017 13:15:59 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <1483964159.17582.34.camel@sipsolutions.net> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <6f5ec9f1-800a-2bc4-2f41-9d803343bb22@fami-braun.de>

On Mon, 2017-01-09 at 12:44 +0100, M. Braun wrote:
> Am 09.01.2017 um 09:08 schrieb Johannes Berg:
> > Does it make sense to implement the two in separate layers though?
> > 
> > Clearly, this part needs to be implemented in the bridge layer due
> > to
> > the snooping knowledge, but the code is very similar to what
> > mac80211
> > has now.
> 
> Does the bridge always know about all stations connected?
> 
> That is bridge fdb entries (need to) expire so the bridge might
> "forget" a still-connected station not sending but only consuming
> broadcast traffic.
> 
> E.g. there is a television broadcast station here that receives a
> video stream (via wifi, udp packets) and then airs it (dvb-t) but (on
> its own) would not send any data packet on wifi (static ip, etc.).

Ok, that I don't know. Somehow if you address a unicast packet there
the bridge has to make a decision - so it really should know? Would it
query the port somehow to see if the device is behind it, if getting a
packet for a station it forgot about?

> An other reason to implement this in mac80211 initially was that
> mac80211 could encapsulate broacast/multicast ethernet packtes in
> unicast A-MSDU packets in a way, so that the receiver would still see
> process ethernet packets (after conversion) but have unicast wifi
> frames. This cannot be done in bridge easily but one might want to
> add this later to mac80211.

Yes, DMG would have to be done in mac80211, but that's a lot clearer
case too since it requires negotiation functionality etc.

johannes

WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Johannes Berg <johannes@sipsolutions.net>
To: "M. Braun" <michael-dev@fami-braun.de>,
	"Linus Lüssing" <linus.luessing@c0d3.blue>
Cc: netdev@vger.kernel.org, bridge@lists.linux-foundation.org,
	linux-wireless@vger.kernel.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org,
	"David S . Miller" <davem@davemloft.net>,
	Felix Fietkau <nbd@nbd.name>
Subject: Re: [PATCH net-next] bridge: multicast to unicast
Date: Mon, 09 Jan 2017 13:15:59 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <1483964159.17582.34.camel@sipsolutions.net> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <6f5ec9f1-800a-2bc4-2f41-9d803343bb22@fami-braun.de>

On Mon, 2017-01-09 at 12:44 +0100, M. Braun wrote:
> Am 09.01.2017 um 09:08 schrieb Johannes Berg:
> > Does it make sense to implement the two in separate layers though?
> > 
> > Clearly, this part needs to be implemented in the bridge layer due
> > to
> > the snooping knowledge, but the code is very similar to what
> > mac80211
> > has now.
> 
> Does the bridge always know about all stations connected?
> 
> That is bridge fdb entries (need to) expire so the bridge might
> "forget" a still-connected station not sending but only consuming
> broadcast traffic.
> 
> E.g. there is a television broadcast station here that receives a
> video stream (via wifi, udp packets) and then airs it (dvb-t) but (on
> its own) would not send any data packet on wifi (static ip, etc.).

Ok, that I don't know. Somehow if you address a unicast packet there
the bridge has to make a decision - so it really should know? Would it
query the port somehow to see if the device is behind it, if getting a
packet for a station it forgot about?

> An other reason to implement this in mac80211 initially was that
> mac80211 could encapsulate broacast/multicast ethernet packtes in
> unicast A-MSDU packets in a way, so that the receiver would still see
> process ethernet packets (after conversion) but have unicast wifi
> frames. This cannot be done in bridge easily but one might want to
> add this later to mac80211.

Yes, DMG would have to be done in mac80211, but that's a lot clearer
case too since it requires negotiation functionality etc.

johannes

  reply	other threads:[~2017-01-09 12:15 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 96+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2017-01-02 19:32 [Bridge] [PATCH net-next] bridge: multicast to unicast Linus Lüssing
2017-01-02 19:32 ` Linus Lüssing
2017-01-02 19:32 ` Linus Lüssing
2017-01-03 11:58 ` [Bridge] " Nikolay Aleksandrov
2017-01-03 11:58   ` Nikolay Aleksandrov via Bridge
2017-01-03 11:58   ` Nikolay Aleksandrov
2017-01-03 13:15 ` [Bridge] " Felix Fietkau
2017-01-03 13:15   ` Felix Fietkau
2017-01-06 12:47 ` [Bridge] " Johannes Berg
2017-01-06 12:47   ` Johannes Berg
2017-01-06 12:47   ` Johannes Berg
2017-01-06 13:52   ` [Bridge] " Felix Fietkau
2017-01-06 13:52     ` Felix Fietkau
2017-01-06 13:54     ` [Bridge] " Johannes Berg
2017-01-06 13:54       ` Johannes Berg
2017-01-06 13:54       ` Johannes Berg
2017-01-06 13:54       ` [Bridge] " Felix Fietkau
2017-01-06 13:54         ` Felix Fietkau
2017-01-07 10:32       ` [Bridge] " M. Braun
2017-01-07 10:32         ` M. Braun
2017-01-07 10:32         ` M. Braun
2017-01-07 14:55         ` [Bridge] " Linus Lüssing
2017-01-07 14:55           ` Linus Lüssing
2017-01-07 14:55           ` Linus Lüssing
2017-01-09  8:08           ` [Bridge] " Johannes Berg
2017-01-09  8:08             ` Johannes Berg
2017-01-09  8:08             ` Johannes Berg
2017-01-09 11:44             ` [Bridge] " M. Braun
2017-01-09 11:44               ` M. Braun
2017-01-09 11:44               ` M. Braun
2017-01-09 12:15               ` Johannes Berg [this message]
2017-01-09 12:15                 ` Johannes Berg
2017-01-09 12:15                 ` Johannes Berg
2017-01-09 15:25                 ` [Bridge] " michael-dev
2017-01-09 15:25                   ` michael-dev
2017-01-09 15:47                   ` [Bridge] " Johannes Berg
2017-01-09 15:47                     ` Johannes Berg
2017-01-09 15:47                     ` Johannes Berg
2017-01-09 21:23               ` [Bridge] " Linus Lüssing
2017-01-09 21:23                 ` Linus Lüssing
2017-01-09 21:30                 ` [Bridge] " Stephen Hemminger
2017-01-09 21:30                   ` Stephen Hemminger
2017-01-09 21:30                   ` Stephen Hemminger
2017-01-10  4:18                   ` [Bridge] " Linus Lüssing
2017-01-10  4:18                     ` Linus Lüssing
2017-01-10  4:18                     ` Linus Lüssing
2017-01-10 10:56                     ` [Bridge] " Johannes Berg
2017-01-10 10:56                       ` Johannes Berg
2017-01-10 10:56                       ` Johannes Berg
2017-01-10 17:17                       ` [Bridge] " Dave Taht
2017-01-10 17:17                         ` Dave Taht
2017-01-10 17:23                         ` [Bridge] " Felix Fietkau
2017-01-10 17:23                           ` Felix Fietkau
2017-01-10 17:23                           ` Felix Fietkau
2017-01-10 18:24                           ` [Bridge] " Dave Taht
2017-01-10 18:24                             ` Dave Taht
2017-01-10 18:24                             ` Dave Taht
2017-01-10 21:27                       ` [Bridge] " Felix Fietkau
2017-01-10 21:27                         ` Felix Fietkau
2017-01-10 21:27                         ` Felix Fietkau
2017-01-11 11:26                         ` [Bridge] " IgorMitsyanko
2017-01-11 11:26                           ` IgorMitsyanko
2017-01-11 11:30                           ` [Bridge] " Felix Fietkau
2017-01-11 11:30                             ` Felix Fietkau
2017-01-11 12:15                             ` [Bridge] " IgorMitsyanko
2017-01-11 12:15                               ` IgorMitsyanko
2017-01-11 12:21                               ` [Bridge] " Felix Fietkau
2017-01-11 12:21                                 ` Felix Fietkau
2017-01-07 15:15   ` [Bridge] " Linus Lüssing
2017-01-07 15:15     ` Linus Lüssing
2017-01-07 15:15     ` Linus Lüssing
2017-01-09  8:05     ` [Bridge] " Johannes Berg
2017-01-09  8:05       ` Johannes Berg
2017-01-09  8:05       ` Johannes Berg
2017-01-09 12:42       ` [Bridge] " Linus Lüssing
2017-01-09 12:42         ` Linus Lüssing
2017-01-09 12:42         ` Linus Lüssing
2017-01-09 12:44         ` [Bridge] " Johannes Berg
2017-01-09 12:44           ` Johannes Berg
2017-01-09 12:44           ` Johannes Berg
2017-01-09 23:12           ` [Bridge] " Linus Lüssing
2017-01-09 23:12             ` Linus Lüssing
2017-01-09 23:12             ` Linus Lüssing
2017-01-11  9:17             ` [Bridge] " Johannes Berg
2017-01-11  9:17               ` Johannes Berg
2017-01-11  9:17               ` Johannes Berg
2017-01-07  3:13 ` [Bridge] " Stephen Hemminger
2017-01-07  3:13   ` Stephen Hemminger
2017-01-07  3:13   ` Stephen Hemminger
2017-01-07  3:13   ` Stephen Hemminger
2017-01-07 15:06   ` [Bridge] " Linus Lüssing
2017-01-07 15:06     ` Linus Lüssing
2017-01-07 15:06     ` Linus Lüssing
2017-01-09  8:36   ` [Bridge] " Jean-Pierre Tosoni
2017-01-09  8:36     ` Jean-Pierre Tosoni
2017-01-09  8:36     ` Jean-Pierre Tosoni

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