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From: Jens Axboe <jens.axboe-QHcLZuEGTsvQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
To: Nick Piggin <npiggin-l3A5Bk7waGM@public.gmane.org>
Cc: Linus Torvalds
	<torvalds-de/tnXTf+JLsfHDXvbKv3WD2FQJk+8+b@public.gmane.org>,
	Ingo Molnar <mingo-X9Un+BFzKDI@public.gmane.org>,
	linux-arch-u79uwXL29TY76Z2rM5mHXA@public.gmane.org,
	Linux Kernel Mailing List
	<linux-kernel-u79uwXL29TY76Z2rM5mHXA@public.gmane.org>,
	peterz-wEGCiKHe2LqWVfeAwA7xHQ@public.gmane.org,
	sam-uyr5N9Q2VtJg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org
Subject: Re: [PATCH 2/11] x86: convert to generic helpers for IPI function calls
Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 09:08:21 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20080423070819.GU12774@kernel.dk> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20080423011153.GB17572-B4tOwbsTzaBolqkO4TVVkw@public.gmane.org>

On Wed, Apr 23 2008, Nick Piggin wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 12:50:30PM -0700, Linus Torvalds wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > On Tue, 22 Apr 2008, Ingo Molnar wrote:
> > > 
> > > ok. In which case the reschedule vector could be consolidated into that 
> > > as well (it's just a special single-CPU call). Then there would be no 
> > > new vector allocations needed at all, just the renaming of 
> > > RESCHEDULE_VECTOR to something more generic.
> > 
> > Yes.
> > 
> > Btw, don't get me wrong - I'm not against multiple vectors per se. I just 
> > wonder if there is any real reason for the code duplication. 
> > 
> > And there certainly *can* be tons of valid reasons for it. For example, 
> > some of the LAPIC can only have something like two pending interrupts per 
> > vector, and after that IPI's would get lost.
> > 
> > However, since the queuing is actually done with the data structures, I 
> > don't think it matters for the IPI's - they don't need any hardware 
> > queuing at all, afaik, since even if two IPI's would be merged into one 
> > (due to lack of hw queueing) the IPI handling code still has its list of 
> > events, so it doesn't matter.
> > 
> > And performance can be a valid reason ("too expensive to check the shared 
> > queue if we only have per-cpu events"), although I$ issues can cause that 
> > argument to go both ways.
> > 
> > I was also wondering whether there are deadlock issues (ie one type of IPI 
> > has to complete even if a lock is held for the other type). 
> > 
> > So I don't dislike the patch per se, I just wanted to understand _why_ the 
> > IPI's wanted separate vectors.
> 
> The "too expensive to check the shared queue" is one aspect of it. The
> shared queue need not have events *for us* (at least, unless Jens has
> changed the implementation a bit) but it can still have events that we
> would need to check through.

That is still the case, the loop works the same way still.

To answer Linus' question on why it was done the way it was - the
thought of sharing the IPI just didn't occur to me. For performance
reasons I'd like to keep the current setup, but it's certainly a viable
alternative for archs with limited number of IPIs available (like the
mips case that Ralf has disclosed).

-- 
Jens Axboe

WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Jens Axboe <jens.axboe@oracle.com>
To: Nick Piggin <npiggin@suse.de>
Cc: Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>,
	Ingo Molnar <mingo@elte.hu>,
	linux-arch@vger.kernel.org,
	Linux Kernel Mailing List <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	peterz@infradead.org, sam@ravnborg.org
Subject: Re: [PATCH 2/11] x86: convert to generic helpers for IPI function calls
Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 09:08:21 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20080423070819.GU12774@kernel.dk> (raw)
Message-ID: <20080423070821.OD6uhIMRwLWR9WYdL7Z3JarCyJZ4DyxOTQVMPAfdyMs@z> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20080423011153.GB17572@wotan.suse.de>

On Wed, Apr 23 2008, Nick Piggin wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 12:50:30PM -0700, Linus Torvalds wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > On Tue, 22 Apr 2008, Ingo Molnar wrote:
> > > 
> > > ok. In which case the reschedule vector could be consolidated into that 
> > > as well (it's just a special single-CPU call). Then there would be no 
> > > new vector allocations needed at all, just the renaming of 
> > > RESCHEDULE_VECTOR to something more generic.
> > 
> > Yes.
> > 
> > Btw, don't get me wrong - I'm not against multiple vectors per se. I just 
> > wonder if there is any real reason for the code duplication. 
> > 
> > And there certainly *can* be tons of valid reasons for it. For example, 
> > some of the LAPIC can only have something like two pending interrupts per 
> > vector, and after that IPI's would get lost.
> > 
> > However, since the queuing is actually done with the data structures, I 
> > don't think it matters for the IPI's - they don't need any hardware 
> > queuing at all, afaik, since even if two IPI's would be merged into one 
> > (due to lack of hw queueing) the IPI handling code still has its list of 
> > events, so it doesn't matter.
> > 
> > And performance can be a valid reason ("too expensive to check the shared 
> > queue if we only have per-cpu events"), although I$ issues can cause that 
> > argument to go both ways.
> > 
> > I was also wondering whether there are deadlock issues (ie one type of IPI 
> > has to complete even if a lock is held for the other type). 
> > 
> > So I don't dislike the patch per se, I just wanted to understand _why_ the 
> > IPI's wanted separate vectors.
> 
> The "too expensive to check the shared queue" is one aspect of it. The
> shared queue need not have events *for us* (at least, unless Jens has
> changed the implementation a bit) but it can still have events that we
> would need to check through.

That is still the case, the loop works the same way still.

To answer Linus' question on why it was done the way it was - the
thought of sharing the IPI just didn't occur to me. For performance
reasons I'd like to keep the current setup, but it's certainly a viable
alternative for archs with limited number of IPIs available (like the
mips case that Ralf has disclosed).

-- 
Jens Axboe


  parent reply	other threads:[~2008-04-23  7:08 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 121+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2008-04-22 18:50 [PATCH 0/11] Generic smp_call_function() #2 Jens Axboe
2008-04-22 18:50 ` Jens Axboe
     [not found] ` <1208890227-24808-1-git-send-email-jens.axboe-QHcLZuEGTsvQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
2008-04-22 18:50   ` [PATCH 1/11] Add generic helpers for arch IPI function calls Jens Axboe
2008-04-22 18:50     ` Jens Axboe
     [not found]     ` <1208890227-24808-2-git-send-email-jens.axboe-QHcLZuEGTsvQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
2008-04-22 20:17       ` Peter Zijlstra
2008-04-22 20:17         ` Peter Zijlstra
2008-04-23  6:07         ` Jens Axboe
2008-04-23  6:07           ` Jens Axboe
     [not found]           ` <20080423060725.GT12774-tSWWG44O7X1aa/9Udqfwiw@public.gmane.org>
2008-04-23  6:32             ` Peter Zijlstra
2008-04-23  6:32               ` Peter Zijlstra
2008-04-23  7:49               ` Jens Axboe
2008-04-23  7:49                 ` Jens Axboe
     [not found]                 ` <20080423074933.GB12774-tSWWG44O7X1aa/9Udqfwiw@public.gmane.org>
2008-04-23  7:50                   ` Peter Zijlstra
2008-04-23  7:50                     ` Peter Zijlstra
2008-04-24 22:01       ` Russell King
2008-04-24 22:01         ` Russell King
     [not found]         ` <20080424220157.GA26179-f404yB8NqCZvn6HldHNs0ANdhmdF6hFW@public.gmane.org>
2008-04-25  7:18           ` Jens Axboe
2008-04-25  7:18             ` Jens Axboe
     [not found]             ` <20080425071823.GF12774-tSWWG44O7X1aa/9Udqfwiw@public.gmane.org>
2008-04-26  6:28               ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2008-04-26  6:28                 ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
     [not found]                 ` <4812CB99.1070600-TSDbQ3PG+2Y@public.gmane.org>
2008-04-28  7:38                   ` Jes Sorensen
2008-04-28  7:38                     ` Jes Sorensen
2008-04-26  6:11       ` Andrew Morton
2008-04-26  6:11         ` Andrew Morton
2008-04-26  6:11         ` Andrew Morton
     [not found]         ` <20080425231100.b93a1601.akpm-de/tnXTf+JLsfHDXvbKv3WD2FQJk+8+b@public.gmane.org>
2008-04-26 14:13           ` James Bottomley
2008-04-26 14:13             ` James Bottomley
2008-04-27  0:58           ` Paul E. McKenney
2008-04-27  0:58             ` Paul E. McKenney
     [not found]             ` <20080427005816.GB21687-23VcF4HTsmIX0ybBhKVfKdBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org>
2008-04-27 10:36               ` Jens Axboe
2008-04-27 10:36                 ` Jens Axboe
2008-04-27 10:30           ` Jens Axboe
2008-04-27 10:30             ` Jens Axboe
     [not found]         ` <1209219236.3113.6.camel-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob@public.gmane.org>
2008-04-28 14:25           ` David Howells
2008-04-28 14:25             ` David Howells
     [not found]             ` <18470.1209392727-H+wXaHxf7aLQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
2008-04-28 14:43               ` James Bottomley
2008-04-28 14:43                 ` James Bottomley
2008-04-22 18:50   ` [PATCH 2/11] x86: convert to generic helpers for " Jens Axboe
2008-04-22 18:50     ` Jens Axboe
2008-04-22 19:03     ` Linus Torvalds
     [not found]       ` <alpine.LFD.1.10.0804221157220.2779-5CScLwifNT1QetFLy7KEm3xJsTq8ys+cHZ5vskTnxNA@public.gmane.org>
2008-04-22 19:12         ` Ingo Molnar
2008-04-22 19:12           ` Ingo Molnar
     [not found]           ` <20080422191213.GA6370-X9Un+BFzKDI@public.gmane.org>
2008-04-22 19:22             ` Linus Torvalds
2008-04-22 19:22               ` Linus Torvalds
2008-04-22 19:26               ` Ingo Molnar
     [not found]                 ` <20080422192601.GB12588-X9Un+BFzKDI@public.gmane.org>
2008-04-22 19:50                   ` Linus Torvalds
2008-04-22 19:50                     ` Linus Torvalds
     [not found]                     ` <alpine.LFD.1.10.0804221244350.2779-5CScLwifNT1QetFLy7KEm3xJsTq8ys+cHZ5vskTnxNA@public.gmane.org>
2008-04-23  1:11                       ` Nick Piggin
2008-04-23  1:11                         ` Nick Piggin
     [not found]                         ` <20080423011153.GB17572-B4tOwbsTzaBolqkO4TVVkw@public.gmane.org>
2008-04-23  1:22                           ` Linus Torvalds
2008-04-23  1:22                             ` Linus Torvalds
     [not found]                             ` <alpine.LFD.1.10.0804221817050.2779-5CScLwifNT1QetFLy7KEm3xJsTq8ys+cHZ5vskTnxNA@public.gmane.org>
2008-04-23  1:36                               ` Nick Piggin
2008-04-23  1:36                                 ` Nick Piggin
2008-04-23  7:08                           ` Jens Axboe [this message]
2008-04-23  7:08                             ` Jens Axboe
2008-04-23 12:54         ` Jens Axboe
2008-04-23 12:54           ` Jens Axboe
     [not found]     ` <1208890227-24808-3-git-send-email-jens.axboe-QHcLZuEGTsvQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
2008-04-26  6:44       ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2008-04-26  6:44         ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
     [not found]         ` <4812CF5B.4080902-TSDbQ3PG+2Y@public.gmane.org>
2008-04-27 10:23           ` Jens Axboe
2008-04-27 10:23             ` Jens Axboe
     [not found]             ` <20080427102335.GS12774-tSWWG44O7X1aa/9Udqfwiw@public.gmane.org>
2008-04-27 15:18               ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2008-04-27 15:18                 ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2008-04-22 18:50   ` [PATCH 3/11] powerpc: " Jens Axboe
2008-04-22 18:50     ` Jens Axboe
2008-04-22 18:50   ` [PATCH 4/11] ia64: " Jens Axboe
2008-04-22 18:50     ` Jens Axboe
2008-04-22 18:50   ` [PATCH 5/11] alpha: " Jens Axboe
2008-04-22 18:50     ` Jens Axboe
2008-04-22 18:50   ` [PATCH 6/11] arm: " Jens Axboe
2008-04-22 18:50     ` Jens Axboe
2008-04-22 18:50   ` [PATCH 7/11] m32r: " Jens Axboe
2008-04-22 18:50     ` Jens Axboe
2008-04-22 18:50   ` [PATCH 8/11] mips: " Jens Axboe
2008-04-22 18:50     ` Jens Axboe
2008-04-22 23:18     ` Ralf Baechle
2008-04-23  7:18       ` Jens Axboe
2008-04-22 18:50   ` [PATCH 9/11] parisc: " Jens Axboe
2008-04-22 18:50     ` Jens Axboe
2008-04-22 18:50   ` [PATCH 10/11] sh: " Jens Axboe
2008-04-22 18:50     ` Jens Axboe
     [not found]     ` <1208890227-24808-11-git-send-email-jens.axboe-QHcLZuEGTsvQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
2008-04-25  8:56       ` Paul Mundt
2008-04-25  8:56         ` Paul Mundt
     [not found]         ` <20080425085637.GA30569-M7jkjyW5wf5g9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org>
2008-04-25  9:16           ` Jens Axboe
2008-04-25  9:16             ` Jens Axboe
2008-04-22 18:50   ` [PATCH 11/11] s390: " Jens Axboe
2008-04-22 18:50     ` Jens Axboe
     [not found]     ` <1208890227-24808-12-git-send-email-jens.axboe-QHcLZuEGTsvQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
2008-04-23  7:58       ` Heiko Carstens
2008-04-23  7:58         ` Heiko Carstens
     [not found]         ` <20080423075831.GB15850-Pmgahw53EmNLmI7Nx2oIsGnsbthNF6/HVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org>
2008-04-23  8:11           ` Jens Axboe
2008-04-23  8:11             ` Jens Axboe
     [not found]             ` <20080423081147.GC12774-tSWWG44O7X1aa/9Udqfwiw@public.gmane.org>
2008-04-23 11:21               ` Jens Axboe
2008-04-23 11:21                 ` Jens Axboe
     [not found]                 ` <20080423112124.GJ12774-tSWWG44O7X1aa/9Udqfwiw@public.gmane.org>
2008-04-23 11:47                   ` Heiko Carstens
2008-04-23 11:47                     ` Heiko Carstens
     [not found]                     ` <20080423114744.GA29422-Pmgahw53EmNLmI7Nx2oIsGnsbthNF6/HVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org>
2008-04-23 11:54                       ` Jens Axboe
2008-04-23 11:54                         ` Jens Axboe
2008-04-23 12:42                       ` Martin Schwidefsky
2008-04-23 12:42                         ` Martin Schwidefsky
2008-04-23 15:56                         ` Rusty Russell
2008-04-23 15:56                           ` Rusty Russell
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2008-04-22  7:57 [PATCH 0/11] Generic smp_call_function() and friends Jens Axboe
     [not found] ` <1208851058-8500-1-git-send-email-jens.axboe-QHcLZuEGTsvQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
2008-04-22  7:57   ` [PATCH 2/11] x86: convert to generic helpers for IPI function calls Jens Axboe
2008-04-22  7:57     ` Jens Axboe
     [not found]     ` <1208851058-8500-3-git-send-email-jens.axboe-QHcLZuEGTsvQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
2008-04-22  8:38       ` Sam Ravnborg
2008-04-22  8:38         ` Sam Ravnborg
     [not found]         ` <20080422083810.GA23540-QabhHTsIXMSnlFQ6Q1D1Y0B+6BGkLq7r@public.gmane.org>
2008-04-22  8:43           ` Jens Axboe
2008-04-22  8:43             ` Jens Axboe
     [not found]             ` <20080422084315.GT12774-tSWWG44O7X1aa/9Udqfwiw@public.gmane.org>
2008-04-22 11:15               ` Jens Axboe
2008-04-22 11:15                 ` Jens Axboe
2008-04-22  8:47       ` Ingo Molnar
2008-04-22  8:47         ` Ingo Molnar
     [not found]         ` <20080422084738.GB2388-X9Un+BFzKDI@public.gmane.org>
2008-04-22  8:48           ` Jacek Luczak
2008-04-22  8:48             ` Jacek Luczak
     [not found]             ` <480DA670.4060707-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
2008-04-22  8:56               ` Jens Axboe
2008-04-22  8:56                 ` Jens Axboe
     [not found]                 ` <20080422085629.GV12774-tSWWG44O7X1aa/9Udqfwiw@public.gmane.org>
2008-04-22  9:04                   ` Jacek Luczak
2008-04-22  9:04                     ` Jacek Luczak
2008-04-22  8:52           ` Jens Axboe
2008-04-22  8:52             ` Jens Axboe
2008-04-26  8:59           ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2008-04-26  8:59             ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge

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