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From: Ingo Molnar <mingo@elte.hu>
To: "Markus Gutschke (顧孟勤)" <markus@google.com>
Cc: Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>,
	Roland McGrath <roland@redhat.com>,
	Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>,
	x86@kernel.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, stable@kernel.org,
	linux-mips@linux-mips.org, sparclinux@vger.kernel.org,
	linuxppc-dev@ozlabs.org
Subject: Re: [PATCH 2/2] x86-64: seccomp: fix 32/64 syscall hole
Date: Wed, 6 May 2009 23:54:50 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20090506215450.GA9537@elte.hu> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <904b25810905061446m73c42040nfff47c9b8950bcfa@mail.gmail.com>


* Markus Gutschke (顧孟勤) <markus@google.com> wrote:

> On Wed, May 6, 2009 at 14:29, Ingo Molnar <mingo@elte.hu> wrote:
> > That's a pretty interesting usage. What would be fallback mode you
> > are using if the kernel doesnt have seccomp built in? Completely
> > non-sandboxed? Or a ptrace/PTRACE_SYSCALL based sandbox?
> 
> Ptrace has performance and/or reliability problems when used to 
> sandbox threaded applications due to potential race conditions 
> when inspecting system call arguments. We hope that we can avoid 
> this problem with seccomp. It is very attractive that kernel 
> automatically terminates any application that violates the very 
> well-defined constraints of the sandbox.
> 
> In general, we are currently exploring different options based on 
> general availability, functionality, and complexity of 
> implementation. Seccomp is a good middle ground that we expect to 
> be able to use in the medium term to provide an acceptable 
> solution for a large segment of Linux users. Although the 
> restriction to just four unfiltered system calls is painful.

Which other system calls would you like to use? Futexes might be 
one, for fast synchronization primitives?

	Ingo

WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Ingo Molnar <mingo@elte.hu>
To: "Markus Gutschke (顧孟勤)" <markus@google.com>
Cc: linux-mips@linux-mips.org, x86@kernel.org,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, linuxppc-dev@ozlabs.org,
	sparclinux@vger.kernel.org,
	Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>,
	Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>,
	stable@kernel.org, Roland McGrath <roland@redhat.com>
Subject: Re: [PATCH 2/2] x86-64: seccomp: fix 32/64 syscall hole
Date: Wed, 6 May 2009 23:54:50 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20090506215450.GA9537@elte.hu> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <904b25810905061446m73c42040nfff47c9b8950bcfa@mail.gmail.com>


* Markus Gutschke (顧孟勤) <markus@google.com> wrote:

> On Wed, May 6, 2009 at 14:29, Ingo Molnar <mingo@elte.hu> wrote:
> > That's a pretty interesting usage. What would be fallback mode you
> > are using if the kernel doesnt have seccomp built in? Completely
> > non-sandboxed? Or a ptrace/PTRACE_SYSCALL based sandbox?
> 
> Ptrace has performance and/or reliability problems when used to 
> sandbox threaded applications due to potential race conditions 
> when inspecting system call arguments. We hope that we can avoid 
> this problem with seccomp. It is very attractive that kernel 
> automatically terminates any application that violates the very 
> well-defined constraints of the sandbox.
> 
> In general, we are currently exploring different options based on 
> general availability, functionality, and complexity of 
> implementation. Seccomp is a good middle ground that we expect to 
> be able to use in the medium term to provide an acceptable 
> solution for a large segment of Linux users. Although the 
> restriction to just four unfiltered system calls is painful.

Which other system calls would you like to use? Futexes might be 
one, for fast synchronization primitives?

	Ingo

WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Ingo Molnar <mingo@elte.hu>
To: "Markus Gutschke (顧孟勤)" <markus@google.com>
Cc: Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>,
	Roland McGrath <roland@redhat.com>,
	Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>,
	x86@kernel.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, stable@kernel.org,
	linux-mips@linux-mips.org, sparclinux@vger.kernel.org,
	linuxppc-dev@ozlabs.org
Subject: Re: [PATCH 2/2] x86-64: seccomp: fix 32/64 syscall hole
Date: Wed, 06 May 2009 21:54:50 +0000	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20090506215450.GA9537@elte.hu> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <904b25810905061446m73c42040nfff47c9b8950bcfa@mail.gmail.com>


* Markus Gutschke (顧孟勤) <markus@google.com> wrote:

> On Wed, May 6, 2009 at 14:29, Ingo Molnar <mingo@elte.hu> wrote:
> > That's a pretty interesting usage. What would be fallback mode you
> > are using if the kernel doesnt have seccomp built in? Completely
> > non-sandboxed? Or a ptrace/PTRACE_SYSCALL based sandbox?
> 
> Ptrace has performance and/or reliability problems when used to 
> sandbox threaded applications due to potential race conditions 
> when inspecting system call arguments. We hope that we can avoid 
> this problem with seccomp. It is very attractive that kernel 
> automatically terminates any application that violates the very 
> well-defined constraints of the sandbox.
> 
> In general, we are currently exploring different options based on 
> general availability, functionality, and complexity of 
> implementation. Seccomp is a good middle ground that we expect to 
> be able to use in the medium term to provide an acceptable 
> solution for a large segment of Linux users. Although the 
> restriction to just four unfiltered system calls is painful.

Which other system calls would you like to use? Futexes might be 
one, for fast synchronization primitives?

	Ingo

  reply	other threads:[~2009-05-06 21:56 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 84+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2009-02-28  3:02 [PATCH 0/2] x86-64: 32/64 syscall arch holes Roland McGrath
2009-02-28  3:03 ` [PATCH 1/2] x86-64: syscall-audit: fix 32/64 syscall hole Roland McGrath
2009-02-28  3:04 ` [PATCH 2/2] x86-64: seccomp: " Roland McGrath
2009-02-28  3:36   ` Linus Torvalds
2009-02-28  3:52     ` Linus Torvalds
2009-02-28  4:46       ` Ingo Molnar
2009-02-28  7:25       ` Roland McGrath
2009-02-28  7:25         ` Roland McGrath
2009-02-28  7:25         ` Roland McGrath
2009-02-28  7:31         ` Ingo Molnar
2009-02-28  7:31           ` Ingo Molnar
2009-02-28  7:31           ` Ingo Molnar
2009-02-28  7:36           ` Roland McGrath
2009-02-28  7:36             ` Roland McGrath
2009-02-28  7:36             ` Roland McGrath
2009-02-28 17:23         ` Linus Torvalds
2009-02-28 17:23           ` Linus Torvalds
2009-02-28 17:23           ` Linus Torvalds
2009-02-28 17:46           ` [stable] " Greg KH
2009-02-28 17:46             ` Greg KH
2009-02-28 17:46             ` Greg KH
2009-02-28 17:54             ` Arjan van de Ven
2009-02-28 17:54               ` Arjan van de Ven
2009-02-28 17:54               ` Arjan van de Ven
2009-02-28 18:23               ` Greg KH
2009-02-28 18:23                 ` Greg KH
2009-02-28 18:23                 ` Greg KH
2009-02-28 20:27                 ` Greg KH
2009-02-28 20:27                   ` Greg KH
2009-02-28 21:09           ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2009-02-28 21:09             ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2009-02-28 21:09             ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2009-03-02  1:44           ` Roland McGrath
2009-03-02  1:44             ` Roland McGrath
2009-03-02  1:44             ` Roland McGrath
2009-05-06 18:42           ` Markus Gutschke
2009-05-06 18:42             ` Markus Gutschke
2009-05-06 18:46           ` Markus Gutschke (顧孟勤)
2009-05-06 18:46             ` 
2009-05-06 18:46             ` Markus Gutschke (顧孟勤)
2009-05-06 21:29             ` Ingo Molnar
2009-05-06 21:29               ` Ingo Molnar
2009-05-06 21:29               ` Ingo Molnar
2009-05-06 21:46               ` Markus Gutschke (顧孟勤)
2009-05-06 21:46                 ` 
2009-05-06 21:46                 ` Markus Gutschke (顧孟勤)
2009-05-06 21:54                 ` Ingo Molnar [this message]
2009-05-06 21:54                   ` Ingo Molnar
2009-05-06 21:54                   ` Ingo Molnar
2009-05-06 22:08                   ` Markus Gutschke (顧孟勤)
2009-05-06 22:08                     ` 
2009-05-06 22:08                     ` Markus Gutschke (顧孟勤)
2009-05-06 22:13                     ` Ingo Molnar
2009-05-06 22:13                       ` Ingo Molnar
2009-05-06 22:13                       ` Ingo Molnar
2009-05-06 22:21                       ` Markus Gutschke (顧孟勤)
2009-05-06 22:21                         ` 
2009-05-06 22:21                         ` Markus Gutschke (顧孟勤)
2009-05-07  4:23                         ` Nicholas Miell
2009-05-07  4:23                           ` Nicholas Miell
2009-05-07  4:23                           ` Nicholas Miell
2009-05-07 10:11                           ` Ingo Molnar
2009-05-07 10:11                             ` Ingo Molnar
2009-05-07 10:11                             ` Ingo Molnar
2009-05-10  5:37                             ` Pavel Machek
2009-05-10  5:37                               ` Pavel Machek
2009-05-10  5:37                               ` Pavel Machek
2009-05-08 19:18                     ` Andi Kleen
2009-05-08 19:18                       ` Andi Kleen
2009-05-08 19:18                       ` Andi Kleen
2009-05-07  7:03                 ` Roland McGrath
2009-05-07  7:03                   ` Roland McGrath
2009-05-07  8:01                   ` Markus Gutschke (顧孟勤)
2009-05-07  8:01                     ` 
2009-05-07  8:01                     ` Markus Gutschke (顧孟勤)
2009-05-07  7:30                 ` Roland McGrath
2009-05-07  7:30                   ` Roland McGrath
2009-05-07  7:30                   ` Roland McGrath
2009-05-07  7:31                 ` Roland McGrath
2009-05-07  7:31                   ` Roland McGrath
2009-05-07  7:31                   ` Roland McGrath
2009-05-07  7:31                   ` Roland McGrath
2009-05-08  1:59                   ` David Wagner
2009-05-10  5:36                     ` Pavel Machek

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