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From: Greg KH <greg@kroah.com>
To: Matt Domsch <Matt_Domsch@dell.com>
Cc: Stephen Hemminger <shemminger@vyatta.com>,
	netdev@vger.kernel.org, linux-hotplug@vger.kernel.org,
	Narendra_K@dell.com, jordan_hargrave@dell.com
Subject: Re: PATCH: Network Device Naming mechanism and policy
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 2009 05:23:08 +0000	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20091010052308.GA12458@kroah.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20091010044056.GA5350@mock.linuxdev.us.dell.com>

On Fri, Oct 09, 2009 at 11:40:57PM -0500, Matt Domsch wrote:
> The fundamental roadblock to this is that enumeration != naming,
> except that it is for network devices, and we keep changing the
> enumeration order.

No, the hardware changes the enumeration order, it places _no_
guarantees on what order stuff will be found in.  So this is not the
kernel changing, just to be clear.

Again, I have a machine here that likes to reorder PCI devices every 4th
or so boot times, and that's fine according to the PCI spec.  Yeah, it's
a crappy BIOS, but the manufacturer rightly pointed out that it is not
in violation of anything.

> Today, port naming is completely nondeterministic.  If you have but
> one NIC, there are few chances to get the name wrong (it'll be eth0).
> If you have >1 NIC, chances increase to get it wrong.

That is why all distros name network devices based on the only
deterministic thing they have today, the MAC address.  I still fail to
see why you do not like this solution, it is honestly the only way to
properly name network devices in a sane manner.

All distros also provide a way to easily rename the network devices, to
place a specific name on a specific MAC address, so again, this should
all be solved already.

No matter how badly your BIOS teams mess up the PCI enumeration order :)

thanks,

greg k-h

WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Greg KH <greg@kroah.com>
To: Matt Domsch <Matt_Domsch@dell.com>
Cc: Stephen Hemminger <shemminger@vyatta.com>,
	netdev@vger.kernel.org, linux-hotplug@vger.kernel.org,
	Narendra_K@dell.com, jordan_hargrave@dell.com
Subject: Re: PATCH: Network Device Naming mechanism and policy
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2009 22:23:08 -0700	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20091010052308.GA12458@kroah.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20091010044056.GA5350@mock.linuxdev.us.dell.com>

On Fri, Oct 09, 2009 at 11:40:57PM -0500, Matt Domsch wrote:
> The fundamental roadblock to this is that enumeration != naming,
> except that it is for network devices, and we keep changing the
> enumeration order.

No, the hardware changes the enumeration order, it places _no_
guarantees on what order stuff will be found in.  So this is not the
kernel changing, just to be clear.

Again, I have a machine here that likes to reorder PCI devices every 4th
or so boot times, and that's fine according to the PCI spec.  Yeah, it's
a crappy BIOS, but the manufacturer rightly pointed out that it is not
in violation of anything.

> Today, port naming is completely nondeterministic.  If you have but
> one NIC, there are few chances to get the name wrong (it'll be eth0).
> If you have >1 NIC, chances increase to get it wrong.

That is why all distros name network devices based on the only
deterministic thing they have today, the MAC address.  I still fail to
see why you do not like this solution, it is honestly the only way to
properly name network devices in a sane manner.

All distros also provide a way to easily rename the network devices, to
place a specific name on a specific MAC address, so again, this should
all be solved already.

No matter how badly your BIOS teams mess up the PCI enumeration order :)

thanks,

greg k-h

  reply	other threads:[~2009-10-10  5:23 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 241+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
     [not found] <EDA0A4495861324DA2618B4C45DCB3EE5894ED@blrx3m08.blr.amer.dell.com>
2009-10-09 14:00 ` PATCH: Network Device Naming mechanism and policy Narendra K
2009-10-09 14:00   ` Narendra K
2009-10-09 14:51   ` Matt Domsch
2009-10-09 14:51     ` Matt Domsch
2009-10-09 16:23     ` Bryan Kadzban
2009-10-09 16:23       ` Bryan Kadzban
2009-10-09 16:56       ` Marco d'Itri
2009-10-09 16:56         ` Marco d'Itri
2009-10-12 10:41     ` Scott James Remnant
2009-10-12 10:41       ` Scott James Remnant
2009-10-12 11:31       ` Ben Hutchings
2009-10-12 11:31         ` Ben Hutchings
2009-10-12 17:37       ` Bill Nottingham
2009-10-12 17:37         ` Bill Nottingham
2009-10-13 18:06         ` Dan Williams
2009-10-13 18:06           ` Dan Williams
2009-10-13 18:53           ` Ben Hutchings
2009-10-13 18:53             ` Ben Hutchings
2009-10-13 19:53             ` John W. Linville
2009-10-13 19:53               ` John W. Linville
2009-10-09 16:36   ` Greg KH
2009-10-09 16:36     ` Greg KH
2009-10-09 17:17     ` Matt Domsch
2009-10-09 17:17       ` Matt Domsch
2009-10-09 17:22       ` Greg KH
2009-10-09 17:22         ` Greg KH
2009-10-09 21:09   ` Matt Domsch
2009-10-09 21:09     ` Matt Domsch
2009-10-10  2:44     ` Stephen Hemminger
2009-10-10  2:44       ` Stephen Hemminger
2009-10-10  4:40       ` Matt Domsch
2009-10-10  4:40         ` Matt Domsch
2009-10-10  5:23         ` Greg KH [this message]
2009-10-10  5:23           ` Greg KH
2009-10-10  8:17           ` Sujit K M
2009-10-10  8:29             ` Sujit K M
2009-10-10 16:27             ` Greg KH
2009-10-10 16:27               ` Greg KH
2009-10-10 19:00               ` Ben Hutchings
2009-10-10 19:00                 ` Ben Hutchings
2009-10-10 21:10                 ` Greg KH
2009-10-10 21:10                   ` Greg KH
2009-10-10 12:47           ` Matt Domsch
2009-10-10 12:47             ` Matt Domsch
2009-10-10 16:25             ` Greg KH
2009-10-10 16:25               ` Greg KH
2009-10-10 17:34               ` Bryan Kadzban
2009-10-10 17:34                 ` Bryan Kadzban
2009-10-10 21:13                 ` Greg KH
2009-10-10 21:13                   ` Greg KH
2009-10-12  6:21                   ` Bryan Kadzban
2009-10-12  6:21                     ` Bryan Kadzban
2009-10-12 16:19                     ` Bryan Kadzban
2009-10-12 16:19                       ` Bryan Kadzban
2009-10-11 16:40               ` David Zeuthen
2009-10-11 16:40                 ` David Zeuthen
2009-10-11 18:47                 ` Greg KH
2009-10-11 18:47                   ` Greg KH
2009-10-10 18:11           ` Bill Fink
2009-10-10 18:11             ` Bill Fink
2009-10-10 18:35             ` Kay Sievers
2009-10-10 18:35               ` Kay Sievers
2009-10-11 21:10           ` Rob Townley
2009-10-11 21:10             ` Rob Townley
2009-10-11 23:04             ` Matt Domsch
2009-10-11 23:04               ` Matt Domsch
2009-10-12  3:00             ` Greg KH
2009-10-12  3:00               ` Greg KH
2009-10-12 18:35               ` Rob Townley
2009-10-12 18:35                 ` Rob Townley
2009-10-12 18:44                 ` Matt Domsch
2009-10-12 18:44                   ` Matt Domsch
2009-10-12 17:45           ` Bill Nottingham
2009-10-12 17:45             ` Bill Nottingham
2009-10-12 17:55             ` Greg KH
2009-10-12 17:55               ` Greg KH
2009-10-12 18:07               ` Bill Nottingham
2009-10-12 18:07                 ` Bill Nottingham
2009-10-12 18:15                 ` Greg KH
2009-10-12 18:15                   ` Greg KH
2009-10-10 18:32         ` Stephen Hemminger
2009-10-10 18:32           ` Stephen Hemminger
2009-10-10 21:06           ` Greg KH
2009-10-10 21:06             ` Greg KH
2009-10-13 18:02             ` Dan Williams
2009-10-13 18:02               ` Dan Williams
2009-10-13 18:53               ` Narendra_K
2009-10-13 18:56                 ` Narendra_K
2009-10-12  7:30           ` Kurt Van Dijck
2009-10-12  7:30             ` Kurt Van Dijck
2009-10-11  0:37         ` Marco d'Itri
2009-10-11  0:37           ` Marco d'Itri
2009-10-13 15:08   ` dann frazier
2009-10-13 15:08     ` dann frazier
2009-10-13 17:13     ` Narendra_K
2009-10-13 17:25       ` Narendra_K
2009-10-13 17:36       ` dann frazier
2009-10-13 17:36         ` dann frazier
2009-10-16  0:32         ` dann frazier
2009-10-16  0:32           ` dann frazier
2009-10-16 14:02           ` Narendra_K
2009-10-16 14:14             ` Narendra_K
2009-10-16 15:20             ` dann frazier
2009-10-16 15:20               ` dann frazier
2009-10-16 15:33               ` Ben Hutchings
2009-10-16 15:33                 ` Ben Hutchings
2009-10-16 15:41                 ` dann frazier
2009-10-16 15:41                   ` dann frazier
2009-10-16 21:40                 ` dann frazier
2009-10-16 21:40                   ` dann frazier
2009-10-19 11:30                   ` Narendra_K
2009-10-19 11:42                     ` Narendra_K
2009-10-19 16:14                     ` Bryan Kadzban
2009-10-19 16:14                       ` Bryan Kadzban
2009-11-04 14:23                       ` Narendra_K
2009-11-04 14:35                         ` Narendra_K
2009-11-06  8:49                         ` Marco d'Itri
2009-11-06  8:49                           ` Marco d'Itri
2009-11-06 22:06                           ` Matt Domsch
2009-11-06 22:06                             ` Matt Domsch
2009-11-06 22:35                             ` Marco d'Itri
2009-11-06 22:35                               ` Marco d'Itri
2009-11-06 23:17                               ` dann frazier
2009-11-06 23:17                                 ` dann frazier
2009-11-09 14:41                               ` Narendra_K
2009-11-09 14:53                                 ` Narendra_K
2009-11-10 17:23                                 ` Stephen Hemminger
2009-11-10 17:23                                   ` Stephen Hemminger
2009-11-11  6:31                                   ` Narendra_K
2009-11-11  6:43                                     ` Narendra_K
2009-11-06 22:05                         ` Domsch, Matt
2009-11-06 22:05                           ` Domsch, Matt
2009-10-22  6:36                   ` [PATCH] udev: create empty regular files to represent net dann frazier
2009-10-22  6:36                     ` [PATCH] udev: create empty regular files to represent net interfaces dann frazier
2009-10-27 20:55                     ` Matt Domsch
2009-10-27 20:55                       ` Matt Domsch
2009-10-28  8:23                       ` [PATCH] udev: create empty regular files to represent net Kay Sievers
2009-10-28  8:23                         ` [PATCH] udev: create empty regular files to represent net interfaces Kay Sievers
2009-10-28 13:03                         ` Matt Domsch
2009-10-28 13:03                           ` Matt Domsch
2009-10-28 15:09                           ` [PATCH] udev: create empty regular files to represent net dann frazier
2009-10-28 15:09                             ` [PATCH] udev: create empty regular files to represent net interfaces dann frazier
2009-10-28 16:09                             ` Jordan_Hargrave
2009-10-28 16:09                               ` Jordan_Hargrave
2009-10-28 16:09                             ` Jordan_Hargrave
2009-10-28 16:09                               ` Jordan_Hargrave
2009-10-28 16:11                               ` [PATCH] udev: create empty regular files to represent net Greg KH
2009-10-28 16:11                                 ` [PATCH] udev: create empty regular files to represent net interfaces Greg KH
2009-10-28 13:06                         ` [PATCH] udev: create empty regular files to represent net Ben Hutchings
2009-10-28 13:06                           ` [PATCH] udev: create empty regular files to represent net interfaces Ben Hutchings
2009-10-28 19:15                         ` Narendra_K
2009-10-28 19:27                           ` Narendra_K
2009-10-29 13:11                         ` Matt Domsch
2009-10-29 13:11                           ` Matt Domsch
2009-10-29 14:25                           ` [PATCH] udev: create empty regular files to represent net Greg KH
2009-10-29 14:25                             ` [PATCH] udev: create empty regular files to represent net interfaces Greg KH
2009-10-29 16:44                             ` Narendra_K
2009-10-29 16:56                               ` Narendra_K
2009-10-29 16:52                               ` [PATCH] udev: create empty regular files to represent net Greg KH
2009-10-29 16:52                                 ` [PATCH] udev: create empty regular files to represent net interfaces Greg KH
2009-10-29 17:22                                 ` [PATCH] udev: create empty regular files to represent netinterfaces Narendra_K
2009-10-29 17:34                                   ` Narendra_K
2009-10-29 17:50                                   ` [PATCH] udev: create empty regular files to represent dann frazier
2009-10-29 17:50                                     ` [PATCH] udev: create empty regular files to represent netinterfaces dann frazier
2009-10-29 16:49                             ` [PATCH] udev: create empty regular files to represent net Ben Hutchings
2009-10-29 16:49                               ` [PATCH] udev: create empty regular files to represent net interfaces Ben Hutchings
2009-10-29 16:55                               ` [PATCH] udev: create empty regular files to represent net Greg KH
2009-10-29 16:55                                 ` [PATCH] udev: create empty regular files to represent net interfaces Greg KH
2009-10-29 17:12                                 ` [PATCH] udev: create empty regular files to represent net Ben Hutchings
2009-10-29 17:12                                   ` [PATCH] udev: create empty regular files to represent net interfaces Ben Hutchings
2009-10-29 17:20                                   ` [PATCH] udev: create empty regular files to represent net Greg KH
2009-10-29 17:20                                     ` [PATCH] udev: create empty regular files to represent net interfaces Greg KH
2009-10-29 17:46                             ` [PATCH] udev: create empty regular files to represent net dann frazier
2009-10-29 17:46                               ` [PATCH] udev: create empty regular files to represent net interfaces dann frazier
2009-10-30  3:30                               ` [PATCH] udev: create empty regular files to represent net Marco d'Itri
2009-10-30  3:30                                 ` [PATCH] udev: create empty regular files to represent net interfaces Marco d'Itri
2009-10-30  5:38                                 ` [PATCH] udev: create empty regular files to represent net dann frazier
2009-10-30  5:38                                   ` [PATCH] udev: create empty regular files to represent net interfaces dann frazier
2009-10-30  6:22                                   ` [PATCH] udev: create empty regular files to represent net Marco d'Itri
2009-10-30  6:22                                     ` [PATCH] udev: create empty regular files to represent net interfaces Marco d'Itri
2009-10-30 15:00                                     ` [PATCH] udev: create empty regular files to represent net dann frazier
2009-10-30 15:00                                       ` [PATCH] udev: create empty regular files to represent net interfaces dann frazier
2009-10-30 15:13                               ` Narendra_K
2009-10-30 15:25                                 ` Narendra_K
2009-10-30 16:08                                 ` [PATCH] udev: create empty regular files to represent net dann frazier
2009-10-30 16:08                                   ` [PATCH] udev: create empty regular files to represent net interfaces dann frazier
2009-10-30 16:53                                   ` [PATCH] udev: create empty regular files to represent netinterfaces Narendra_K
2009-10-30 16:54                                     ` Narendra_K
2009-10-30 17:05                                     ` [PATCH] udev: create empty regular files to represent dann frazier
2009-10-30 17:05                                       ` [PATCH] udev: create empty regular files to represent netinterfaces dann frazier
2009-10-30 17:10                                   ` [PATCH] udev: create empty regular files to represent net interfaces Matt Domsch
2009-10-30 17:10                                     ` Matt Domsch
2009-10-30 17:13                                     ` [PATCH] udev: create empty regular files to represent net Greg KH
2009-10-30 17:13                                       ` [PATCH] udev: create empty regular files to represent net interfaces Greg KH
2009-10-30  7:45                         ` Hannes Reinecke
2009-10-30  7:45                           ` Hannes Reinecke
2009-10-30 16:22                           ` Bryan Kadzban
2009-10-30 16:22                             ` Bryan Kadzban
2009-10-30 16:34                             ` [PATCH] udev: create empty regular files to represent net Stephen Hemminger
2009-10-30 16:34                               ` [PATCH] udev: create empty regular files to represent net interfaces Stephen Hemminger
2009-10-13 19:51       ` PATCH: Network Device Naming mechanism and policy Greg KH
2009-10-13 19:51         ` Greg KH
2009-10-13 20:00         ` Jordan_Hargrave
2009-10-13 20:00           ` Jordan_Hargrave
2009-10-13 20:19           ` Greg KH
2009-10-13 20:19             ` Greg KH
2009-10-13 22:05             ` Matt Domsch
2009-10-13 22:05               ` Matt Domsch
2009-10-13 22:08             ` dann frazier
2009-10-13 22:08               ` dann frazier
     [not found] <EDA0A4495861324DA2618B4C45DCB3EE58964E@blrx3m08.blr.amer.dell.com>
2009-10-28 13:06 ` Narendra K
2009-10-28 13:06   ` Narendra K
     [not found] <EDA0A4495861324DA2618B4C45DCB3EE589541@blrx3m08.blr.amer.dell.com>
2009-10-12 18:47 ` Narendra K
2009-10-12 18:47   ` Narendra K
2009-10-12 19:09   ` Greg KH
2009-10-12 19:09     ` Greg KH
2009-10-12 19:41     ` Karl O. Pinc
2009-10-12 19:41       ` Karl O. Pinc
2009-10-13 18:17       ` Dan Williams
2009-10-13 18:17         ` Dan Williams
2009-10-13 18:56         ` Ben Hutchings
2009-10-13 18:56           ` Ben Hutchings
2009-10-12 19:48     ` Matt Domsch
2009-10-12 19:48       ` Matt Domsch
     [not found] <EDA0A4495861324DA2618B4C45DCB3EE58953F@blrx3m08.blr.amer.dell.com>
2009-10-12 18:07 ` Narendra K
2009-10-12 18:07   ` Narendra K
     [not found] <EDA0A4495861324DA2618B4C45DCB3EE5894F6@blrx3m08.blr.amer.dell.com>
2009-10-09 16:04 ` Narendra K
2009-10-09 16:04   ` Narendra K
2009-10-09 16:12   ` Stephen Hemminger
2009-10-09 16:12     ` Stephen Hemminger
2009-10-09 16:25     ` Matt Domsch
2009-10-09 16:25       ` Matt Domsch
2009-08-05 19:50 Jordan_Hargrave
2009-08-19 18:56 ` PATCH: " Jordan_Hargrave
2009-08-19 18:56   ` Jordan_Hargrave
2009-08-19 19:26   ` Ben Hutchings
2009-08-19 19:26     ` Ben Hutchings
2009-08-19 19:40     ` Jordan_Hargrave
2009-08-19 19:40       ` Jordan_Hargrave
2009-08-20  4:41   ` Bryan Kadzban
2009-08-20  4:41     ` Bryan Kadzban
2009-10-12 17:54   ` Marco d'Itri

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