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From: peterz@infradead.org (Peter Zijlstra)
To: linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org
Subject: [PATCH 2/2] arm64: bpf: add BPF XADD instruction
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2015 09:57:40 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20151112085740.GV17308@twins.programming.kicks-ass.net> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20151111234014.GA17014@ast-mbp.thefacebook.com>

On Wed, Nov 11, 2015 at 03:40:15PM -0800, Alexei Starovoitov wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 11, 2015 at 11:21:35PM +0100, Peter Zijlstra wrote:
> > On Wed, Nov 11, 2015 at 11:55:59AM -0800, Alexei Starovoitov wrote:
> > > Therefore things like memory barriers, full set of atomics are not applicable
> > > in bpf world.
> > 
> > There are still plenty of wait-free constructs one can make using them.
> 
> yes, but all such lock-free algos are typically based on cmpxchg8b and
> tight loop, so it would be very hard for verifier to proof termination
> of such loops. I think when we'd need to add something like this, we'll
> add new bpf insn that will be membarrier+cmpxhg8b+check+loop as
> a single insn, so it cannot be misused.
> I don't know of any concrete use case yet. All possible though.

So this is where the 'unconditional' atomic ops come in handy.

Like the x86: xchg, lock {xadd,add,sub,inc,dec,or,and,xor}

Those do not have a loop, and then you can create truly wait-free
things; even some applications of cmpxchg do not actually need the loop.

But this class of wait-free constructs is indeed significantly smaller
than the class of lock-less constructs.

> btw, support for mini loops was requested many times in the past.
> I guess we'd have to add something like this, but it's tricky.
> Mainly because control flow graph analysis becomes much more complicated.

Agreed, that does sound like an 'interesting' problem :-)

Something like:

atomic_op(ptr, f)
{
	for (;;) {
		val = *ptr;
		new = f(val)
		old = cmpxchg(ptr, val, new);
		if (old == val)
			break;

		cpu_relax();
	}
}

might be castable as an instruction I suppose, but I'm not sure you have
function references in (e)BPF.

The above is 'sane' if f is sane (although there is a
starvation case, which is why things like sparc (iirc) need an
increasing backoff instead of cpu_relax()).

WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org>
To: Alexei Starovoitov <alexei.starovoitov@gmail.com>
Cc: David Miller <davem@davemloft.net>,
	will.deacon@arm.com, daniel@iogearbox.net, arnd@arndb.de,
	yang.shi@linaro.org, linaro-kernel@lists.linaro.org,
	eric.dumazet@gmail.com, zlim.lnx@gmail.com, ast@kernel.org,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, netdev@vger.kernel.org,
	xi.wang@gmail.com, catalin.marinas@arm.com,
	linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org, yhs@plumgrid.com,
	bblanco@plumgrid.com
Subject: Re: [PATCH 2/2] arm64: bpf: add BPF XADD instruction
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2015 09:57:40 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20151112085740.GV17308@twins.programming.kicks-ass.net> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20151111234014.GA17014@ast-mbp.thefacebook.com>

On Wed, Nov 11, 2015 at 03:40:15PM -0800, Alexei Starovoitov wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 11, 2015 at 11:21:35PM +0100, Peter Zijlstra wrote:
> > On Wed, Nov 11, 2015 at 11:55:59AM -0800, Alexei Starovoitov wrote:
> > > Therefore things like memory barriers, full set of atomics are not applicable
> > > in bpf world.
> > 
> > There are still plenty of wait-free constructs one can make using them.
> 
> yes, but all such lock-free algos are typically based on cmpxchg8b and
> tight loop, so it would be very hard for verifier to proof termination
> of such loops. I think when we'd need to add something like this, we'll
> add new bpf insn that will be membarrier+cmpxhg8b+check+loop as
> a single insn, so it cannot be misused.
> I don't know of any concrete use case yet. All possible though.

So this is where the 'unconditional' atomic ops come in handy.

Like the x86: xchg, lock {xadd,add,sub,inc,dec,or,and,xor}

Those do not have a loop, and then you can create truly wait-free
things; even some applications of cmpxchg do not actually need the loop.

But this class of wait-free constructs is indeed significantly smaller
than the class of lock-less constructs.

> btw, support for mini loops was requested many times in the past.
> I guess we'd have to add something like this, but it's tricky.
> Mainly because control flow graph analysis becomes much more complicated.

Agreed, that does sound like an 'interesting' problem :-)

Something like:

atomic_op(ptr, f)
{
	for (;;) {
		val = *ptr;
		new = f(val)
		old = cmpxchg(ptr, val, new);
		if (old == val)
			break;

		cpu_relax();
	}
}

might be castable as an instruction I suppose, but I'm not sure you have
function references in (e)BPF.

The above is 'sane' if f is sane (although there is a
starvation case, which is why things like sparc (iirc) need an
increasing backoff instead of cpu_relax()).

  reply	other threads:[~2015-11-12  8:57 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 86+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2015-11-10 22:41 [PATCH 0/2] arm64: bpf: add BPF_ST and BPF_XADD instructions support Yang Shi
2015-11-10 22:41 ` Yang Shi
2015-11-10 22:41 ` Yang Shi
2015-11-10 22:41 ` [PATCH 1/2] arm64: bpf: add 'store immediate' instruction Yang Shi
2015-11-10 22:41   ` Yang Shi
2015-11-11  2:45   ` Z Lim
2015-11-11  2:45     ` Z Lim
2015-11-11 12:12     ` Will Deacon
2015-11-11 12:12       ` Will Deacon
2015-11-11 12:39       ` Will Deacon
2015-11-11 12:39         ` Will Deacon
2015-11-12 19:33         ` Shi, Yang
2015-11-12 19:33           ` Shi, Yang
2015-11-13  3:45           ` Z Lim
2015-11-13  3:45             ` Z Lim
2015-11-23 19:34             ` Shi, Yang
2015-11-23 19:34               ` Shi, Yang
2015-11-10 22:41 ` [PATCH 2/2] arm64: bpf: add BPF XADD instruction Yang Shi
2015-11-10 22:41   ` Yang Shi
2015-11-11  0:08   ` Eric Dumazet
2015-11-11  0:08     ` Eric Dumazet
2015-11-11  0:26     ` Shi, Yang
2015-11-11  0:26       ` Shi, Yang
2015-11-11  0:42       ` Alexei Starovoitov
2015-11-11  0:42         ` Alexei Starovoitov
2015-11-11  2:52         ` Z Lim
2015-11-11  2:52           ` Z Lim
2015-11-11  8:49           ` Arnd Bergmann
2015-11-11  8:49             ` Arnd Bergmann
2015-11-11 10:24             ` Will Deacon
2015-11-11 10:24               ` Will Deacon
2015-11-11 10:42               ` Daniel Borkmann
2015-11-11 10:42                 ` Daniel Borkmann
2015-11-11 11:58                 ` Will Deacon
2015-11-11 11:58                   ` Will Deacon
2015-11-11 12:21                   ` Daniel Borkmann
2015-11-11 12:21                     ` Daniel Borkmann
2015-11-11 12:38                     ` Will Deacon
2015-11-11 12:38                       ` Will Deacon
2015-11-11 12:58                       ` Peter Zijlstra
2015-11-11 12:58                         ` Peter Zijlstra
2015-11-11 15:52                         ` Daniel Borkmann
2015-11-11 15:52                           ` Daniel Borkmann
2015-11-11 16:23                           ` Will Deacon
2015-11-11 16:23                             ` Will Deacon
2015-11-11 17:27                             ` Alexei Starovoitov
2015-11-11 17:27                               ` Alexei Starovoitov
2015-11-11 17:35                               ` David Miller
2015-11-11 17:35                                 ` David Miller
2015-11-11 17:44                                 ` Will Deacon
2015-11-11 17:44                                   ` Will Deacon
2015-11-11 19:01                                   ` David Miller
2015-11-11 19:01                                     ` David Miller
2015-11-11 17:57                                 ` Peter Zijlstra
2015-11-11 17:57                                   ` Peter Zijlstra
2015-11-11 18:11                                   ` Alexei Starovoitov
2015-11-11 18:11                                     ` Alexei Starovoitov
2015-11-11 18:31                                     ` Peter Zijlstra
2015-11-11 18:31                                       ` Peter Zijlstra
2015-11-11 18:41                                       ` Peter Zijlstra
2015-11-11 18:41                                         ` Peter Zijlstra
2015-11-11 18:44                                       ` Peter Zijlstra
2015-11-11 18:44                                         ` Peter Zijlstra
2015-11-11 18:54                                         ` Peter Zijlstra
2015-11-11 18:54                                           ` Peter Zijlstra
2015-11-11 19:55                                           ` Alexei Starovoitov
2015-11-11 19:55                                             ` Alexei Starovoitov
2015-11-11 22:21                                             ` Peter Zijlstra
2015-11-11 22:21                                               ` Peter Zijlstra
2015-11-11 23:40                                               ` Alexei Starovoitov
2015-11-11 23:40                                                 ` Alexei Starovoitov
2015-11-11 23:40                                                 ` Alexei Starovoitov
2015-11-12  8:57                                                 ` Peter Zijlstra [this message]
2015-11-12  8:57                                                   ` Peter Zijlstra
2015-11-11 18:50                                       ` Daniel Borkmann
2015-11-11 18:50                                         ` Daniel Borkmann
2015-11-11 19:04                                         ` David Miller
2015-11-11 19:04                                           ` David Miller
2015-11-11 19:23                                         ` Peter Zijlstra
2015-11-11 19:23                                           ` Peter Zijlstra
2015-11-11 19:41                                           ` Daniel Borkmann
2015-11-11 19:41                                             ` Daniel Borkmann
2015-11-11 18:46                                     ` Will Deacon
2015-11-11 18:46                                       ` Will Deacon
2015-11-11 19:01                                     ` David Miller
2015-11-11 19:01                                       ` David Miller

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