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From: Eduardo Habkost <ehabkost@redhat.com>
To: Paolo Bonzini <pbonzini@redhat.com>
Cc: Markus Armbruster <armbru@redhat.com>,
	Thomas Huth <thuth@redhat.com>,
	zhang.zhanghailiang@huawei.com,
	Ben Warren <ben@skyportsystems.com>,
	qemu-trivial@nongnu.org, Cornelia Huck <cohuck@redhat.com>,
	qemu-devel@nongnu.org, Stefan Hajnoczi <stefanha@redhat.com>
Subject: Re: [Qemu-trivial] [Qemu-devel] [RFC PATCH 4/4] qemu-options: Do not show -enable-kvm and -enable-hax in the docs anymore
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2018 13:06:23 -0300	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20180626160623.GT7451@localhost.localdomain> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <577768c0-5205-2fb4-209f-845332fe158d@redhat.com>

On Tue, Jun 26, 2018 at 03:05:33PM +0200, Paolo Bonzini wrote:
> On 26/06/2018 14:29, Eduardo Habkost wrote:
> > On Tue, Jun 26, 2018 at 07:57:18AM +0200, Paolo Bonzini wrote:
> >> On 25/06/2018 21:51, Eduardo Habkost wrote:
> >>> In either case, I'm not arguing (yet) for changing the default
> >>> upstream.  I'm just arguing for upstream QEMU to not make any
> >>> promises about the default.
> >>
> >> It would be a guest ABI breakage for TCG guests, so it would only apply
> >> to new machine types.  I don't think it's worth the complication.
> > 
> > That's exactly the point: I want to stop promising a stable guest
> > ABI when the accelerator is omitted, because I see no benefit in
> > wasting energy on this.
> 
> On the other hand I see no benefit in changing a default that people are
> obviously not using (since most people use KVM, not TCG).  Distros will
> keep shipping, and people will keep using qemu-kvm even if we change the
> default.

Not changing the default is different from promising we will keep
ABI compatibility if the accelerator is omitted.  I just want to
get rid of the latter.


> > (I don't think we ever kept the guest ABI correctly with TCG, by
> > the way.)
> 
> It would not be any different from KVM.  Less tested and likely to be
> more buggy, yes, but not particularly harder.

We can keep trying to not break it when "-accel tcg" is
explicitly provided.

-- 
Eduardo


WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Eduardo Habkost <ehabkost@redhat.com>
To: Paolo Bonzini <pbonzini@redhat.com>
Cc: Markus Armbruster <armbru@redhat.com>,
	Thomas Huth <thuth@redhat.com>,
	zhang.zhanghailiang@huawei.com,
	Ben Warren <ben@skyportsystems.com>,
	qemu-trivial@nongnu.org, Cornelia Huck <cohuck@redhat.com>,
	qemu-devel@nongnu.org, Stefan Hajnoczi <stefanha@redhat.com>
Subject: Re: [Qemu-devel] [RFC PATCH 4/4] qemu-options: Do not show -enable-kvm and -enable-hax in the docs anymore
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2018 13:06:23 -0300	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20180626160623.GT7451@localhost.localdomain> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <577768c0-5205-2fb4-209f-845332fe158d@redhat.com>

On Tue, Jun 26, 2018 at 03:05:33PM +0200, Paolo Bonzini wrote:
> On 26/06/2018 14:29, Eduardo Habkost wrote:
> > On Tue, Jun 26, 2018 at 07:57:18AM +0200, Paolo Bonzini wrote:
> >> On 25/06/2018 21:51, Eduardo Habkost wrote:
> >>> In either case, I'm not arguing (yet) for changing the default
> >>> upstream.  I'm just arguing for upstream QEMU to not make any
> >>> promises about the default.
> >>
> >> It would be a guest ABI breakage for TCG guests, so it would only apply
> >> to new machine types.  I don't think it's worth the complication.
> > 
> > That's exactly the point: I want to stop promising a stable guest
> > ABI when the accelerator is omitted, because I see no benefit in
> > wasting energy on this.
> 
> On the other hand I see no benefit in changing a default that people are
> obviously not using (since most people use KVM, not TCG).  Distros will
> keep shipping, and people will keep using qemu-kvm even if we change the
> default.

Not changing the default is different from promising we will keep
ABI compatibility if the accelerator is omitted.  I just want to
get rid of the latter.


> > (I don't think we ever kept the guest ABI correctly with TCG, by
> > the way.)
> 
> It would not be any different from KVM.  Less tested and likely to be
> more buggy, yes, but not particularly harder.

We can keep trying to not break it when "-accel tcg" is
explicitly provided.

-- 
Eduardo

  reply	other threads:[~2018-06-26 16:06 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 92+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2018-06-13  5:05 [Qemu-trivial] [PATCH 0/4] Clean up accelerator options Thomas Huth
2018-06-13  5:05 ` [Qemu-devel] " Thomas Huth
2018-06-13  5:05 ` [Qemu-trivial] [PATCH 1/4] Replace '-machine accel=xyz' with '-accel xyz' Thomas Huth
2018-06-13  5:05   ` [Qemu-devel] " Thomas Huth
2018-06-13 12:20   ` [Qemu-trivial] " Eric Blake
2018-06-13 12:20     ` Eric Blake
2018-06-13 12:48   ` [Qemu-trivial] " Paolo Bonzini
2018-06-13 12:48     ` [Qemu-devel] " Paolo Bonzini
2018-06-13 12:53     ` [Qemu-trivial] " Thomas Huth
2018-06-13 12:53       ` [Qemu-devel] " Thomas Huth
2018-06-13 13:54       ` [Qemu-trivial] " Paolo Bonzini
2018-06-13 13:54         ` [Qemu-devel] " Paolo Bonzini
2018-06-13 14:12         ` [Qemu-trivial] " Thomas Huth
2018-06-13 14:12           ` Thomas Huth
2018-06-13 16:10       ` [Qemu-trivial] " Eduardo Habkost
2018-06-13 16:10         ` [Qemu-devel] " Eduardo Habkost
2018-06-13 13:38   ` [Qemu-trivial] " Stefan Hajnoczi
2018-06-13 13:38     ` [Qemu-devel] " Stefan Hajnoczi
2018-06-13  5:05 ` [Qemu-trivial] [PATCH 2/4] Replace '-enable-kvm' with '-accel kvm' in docs and help texts Thomas Huth
2018-06-13  5:05   ` [Qemu-devel] " Thomas Huth
2018-06-13 12:51   ` [Qemu-trivial] " Paolo Bonzini
2018-06-13 12:51     ` [Qemu-devel] " Paolo Bonzini
2018-06-13 13:38   ` [Qemu-trivial] " Stefan Hajnoczi
2018-06-13 13:38     ` [Qemu-devel] " Stefan Hajnoczi
2018-06-13  5:05 ` [Qemu-trivial] [PATCH 3/4] qemu-options: Improve the documentation of '-accel' and '-machine accel=...' Thomas Huth
2018-06-13  5:05   ` [Qemu-devel] " Thomas Huth
2018-06-13 13:38   ` [Qemu-trivial] " Stefan Hajnoczi
2018-06-13 13:38     ` [Qemu-devel] " Stefan Hajnoczi
2018-06-13  5:05 ` [Qemu-trivial] [RFC PATCH 4/4] qemu-options: Do not show -enable-kvm and -enable-hax in the docs anymore Thomas Huth
2018-06-13  5:05   ` [Qemu-devel] " Thomas Huth
2018-06-13 12:51   ` [Qemu-trivial] " Paolo Bonzini
2018-06-13 12:51     ` [Qemu-devel] " Paolo Bonzini
2018-06-13 13:38   ` [Qemu-trivial] " Stefan Hajnoczi
2018-06-13 13:38     ` [Qemu-devel] " Stefan Hajnoczi
2018-06-13 13:44     ` [Qemu-trivial] " Daniel P. Berrangé
2018-06-13 13:44       ` Daniel P. Berrangé
2018-06-13 15:11       ` [Qemu-trivial] " Thomas Huth
2018-06-13 15:11         ` Thomas Huth
2018-06-13 15:19         ` [Qemu-trivial] " Daniel P. Berrangé
2018-06-13 15:19           ` Daniel P. Berrangé
2018-06-13 15:44           ` [Qemu-trivial] " Thomas Huth
2018-06-13 15:44             ` Thomas Huth
2018-06-13 16:02           ` [Qemu-trivial] " Markus Armbruster
2018-06-13 16:02             ` Markus Armbruster
2018-06-19 15:15             ` [Qemu-trivial] " Cornelia Huck
2018-06-19 15:15               ` Cornelia Huck
2018-06-19 16:16               ` [Qemu-trivial] " Paolo Bonzini
2018-06-19 16:16                 ` Paolo Bonzini
2018-06-22 18:11                 ` [Qemu-trivial] " Eduardo Habkost
2018-06-22 18:11                   ` Eduardo Habkost
2018-06-22 19:19                   ` [Qemu-trivial] " Thomas Huth
2018-06-22 19:19                     ` Thomas Huth
2018-06-22 19:35                     ` [Qemu-trivial] " Eduardo Habkost
2018-06-22 19:35                       ` Eduardo Habkost
2018-06-22 21:22                       ` [Qemu-trivial] " Paolo Bonzini
2018-06-22 21:22                         ` Paolo Bonzini
2018-06-25  6:50                         ` [Qemu-trivial] " Markus Armbruster
2018-06-25  6:50                           ` Markus Armbruster
2018-06-25 10:28                           ` [Qemu-trivial] " Paolo Bonzini
2018-06-25 10:28                             ` Paolo Bonzini
2018-06-25 17:30                             ` [Qemu-trivial] " Eduardo Habkost
2018-06-25 17:30                               ` Eduardo Habkost
2018-06-25 18:26                               ` [Qemu-trivial] " Paolo Bonzini
2018-06-25 18:26                                 ` Paolo Bonzini
2018-06-25 19:51                                 ` [Qemu-trivial] " Eduardo Habkost
2018-06-25 19:51                                   ` Eduardo Habkost
2018-06-26  5:57                                   ` [Qemu-trivial] " Paolo Bonzini
2018-06-26  5:57                                     ` Paolo Bonzini
2018-06-26 12:29                                     ` [Qemu-trivial] " Eduardo Habkost
2018-06-26 12:29                                       ` Eduardo Habkost
2018-06-26 13:05                                       ` [Qemu-trivial] " Paolo Bonzini
2018-06-26 13:05                                         ` Paolo Bonzini
2018-06-26 16:06                                         ` Eduardo Habkost [this message]
2018-06-26 16:06                                           ` Eduardo Habkost
2018-06-26 16:10                                           ` [Qemu-trivial] " Daniel P. Berrangé
2018-06-26 16:10                                             ` Daniel P. Berrangé
2018-06-27  8:39                                           ` [Qemu-trivial] " Paolo Bonzini
2018-06-27  8:39                                             ` Paolo Bonzini
2018-06-27 14:05                                             ` [Qemu-trivial] " Eduardo Habkost
2018-06-27 14:05                                               ` Eduardo Habkost
2018-06-26  4:40                                 ` [Qemu-trivial] " Thomas Huth
2018-06-26  4:40                                   ` Thomas Huth
2018-06-26  7:50                                   ` [Qemu-trivial] " Cornelia Huck
2018-06-26  7:50                                     ` Cornelia Huck
2018-06-26 12:56                                     ` [Qemu-trivial] " Eduardo Habkost
2018-06-26 12:56                                       ` Eduardo Habkost
2018-06-26 16:43                                       ` [Qemu-trivial] " Markus Armbruster
2018-06-26 16:43                                         ` Markus Armbruster
2018-06-27  8:49                                         ` [Qemu-trivial] " Paolo Bonzini
2018-06-27  8:49                                           ` Paolo Bonzini
2018-06-13 13:39 ` [Qemu-trivial] [PATCH 0/4] Clean up accelerator options Stefan Hajnoczi
2018-06-13 13:39   ` [Qemu-devel] " Stefan Hajnoczi

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