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From: Markus Armbruster <armbru@redhat.com>
To: Eduardo Habkost <ehabkost@redhat.com>
Cc: Cornelia Huck <cohuck@redhat.com>, Thomas Huth <thuth@redhat.com>,
	zhang.zhanghailiang@huawei.com,
	Ben Warren <ben@skyportsystems.com>,
	qemu-trivial@nongnu.org, qemu-devel@nongnu.org,
	Stefan Hajnoczi <stefanha@redhat.com>,
	Paolo Bonzini <pbonzini@redhat.com>
Subject: Re: [Qemu-trivial] [Qemu-devel] [RFC PATCH 4/4] qemu-options: Do not show -enable-kvm and -enable-hax in the docs anymore
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2018 18:43:56 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <878t71xzub.fsf@dusky.pond.sub.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20180626125644.GS7451@localhost.localdomain> (Eduardo Habkost's message of "Tue, 26 Jun 2018 09:56:44 -0300")

Eduardo Habkost <ehabkost@redhat.com> writes:

> On Tue, Jun 26, 2018 at 09:50:04AM +0200, Cornelia Huck wrote:
>> On Tue, 26 Jun 2018 06:40:56 +0200
>> Thomas Huth <thuth@redhat.com> wrote:
>> 
>> > On 25.06.2018 20:26, Paolo Bonzini wrote:
>> > > On 25/06/2018 19:30, Eduardo Habkost wrote:  
>> > >>>> Attentive distros could even replace the wrapper script by a link.  
>> > >>> If they are okay with replacing the "KVM only" semantics with "KVM or
>> > >>> TCG", which I think is generally worse.  
>> > >>
>> > >> If we can't get agreement on what's the right default for each
>> > >> QEMU binary, I think that's yet another reason to document that
>> > >> upstream QEMU won't guarantee ABI compatibility if -accel is
>> > >> omitted.  
>> > > 
>> > > Before that we should ask what the benefit is in changing the default
>> > > for qemu-system-*.  Nobody is using it in practice to start QEMU with
>> > > KVM enabled...  
>> > 
>> > That's certainly not true. I've seen a couple of times already that
>> > people ask on IRC why their guests are running so slow, and if you ask
>> > them about their command line, it's obvious that they simply were not
>> > aware of "-accel" / "-enable-kvm" yet.
>> > 
>> > <semi-sarcastic>
>> > Maybe we simply should add a "--verbose" command line option that people
>> > can use to diagnose their problems:
>> > 
>> > $ qemu-system-x86_64 --verbose
>> > QEMU emulator version 2.12.50
>> > Using 'tcg' accelerator. Use '-accel kvm' to speed things up.
>> > Machine type is 'pc-i440fx-3.0'. Use 'q35' for a more modern machine.
>> > ....
>> > </semi-sarcastic>
>> 
>> Not sure how serious you meant that, but I actually quite like the
>> idea :)
>
> Also, this mode could be enabled by default if stderr is a tty.

It could be enabled by default, period.

Our inability to change defaults that have become sub-optimal for most
users is depressing.


WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Markus Armbruster <armbru@redhat.com>
To: Eduardo Habkost <ehabkost@redhat.com>
Cc: Cornelia Huck <cohuck@redhat.com>, Thomas Huth <thuth@redhat.com>,
	zhang.zhanghailiang@huawei.com,
	Ben Warren <ben@skyportsystems.com>,
	qemu-trivial@nongnu.org, qemu-devel@nongnu.org,
	Stefan Hajnoczi <stefanha@redhat.com>,
	Paolo Bonzini <pbonzini@redhat.com>
Subject: Re: [Qemu-devel] [RFC PATCH 4/4] qemu-options: Do not show -enable-kvm and -enable-hax in the docs anymore
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2018 18:43:56 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <878t71xzub.fsf@dusky.pond.sub.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20180626125644.GS7451@localhost.localdomain> (Eduardo Habkost's message of "Tue, 26 Jun 2018 09:56:44 -0300")

Eduardo Habkost <ehabkost@redhat.com> writes:

> On Tue, Jun 26, 2018 at 09:50:04AM +0200, Cornelia Huck wrote:
>> On Tue, 26 Jun 2018 06:40:56 +0200
>> Thomas Huth <thuth@redhat.com> wrote:
>> 
>> > On 25.06.2018 20:26, Paolo Bonzini wrote:
>> > > On 25/06/2018 19:30, Eduardo Habkost wrote:  
>> > >>>> Attentive distros could even replace the wrapper script by a link.  
>> > >>> If they are okay with replacing the "KVM only" semantics with "KVM or
>> > >>> TCG", which I think is generally worse.  
>> > >>
>> > >> If we can't get agreement on what's the right default for each
>> > >> QEMU binary, I think that's yet another reason to document that
>> > >> upstream QEMU won't guarantee ABI compatibility if -accel is
>> > >> omitted.  
>> > > 
>> > > Before that we should ask what the benefit is in changing the default
>> > > for qemu-system-*.  Nobody is using it in practice to start QEMU with
>> > > KVM enabled...  
>> > 
>> > That's certainly not true. I've seen a couple of times already that
>> > people ask on IRC why their guests are running so slow, and if you ask
>> > them about their command line, it's obvious that they simply were not
>> > aware of "-accel" / "-enable-kvm" yet.
>> > 
>> > <semi-sarcastic>
>> > Maybe we simply should add a "--verbose" command line option that people
>> > can use to diagnose their problems:
>> > 
>> > $ qemu-system-x86_64 --verbose
>> > QEMU emulator version 2.12.50
>> > Using 'tcg' accelerator. Use '-accel kvm' to speed things up.
>> > Machine type is 'pc-i440fx-3.0'. Use 'q35' for a more modern machine.
>> > ....
>> > </semi-sarcastic>
>> 
>> Not sure how serious you meant that, but I actually quite like the
>> idea :)
>
> Also, this mode could be enabled by default if stderr is a tty.

It could be enabled by default, period.

Our inability to change defaults that have become sub-optimal for most
users is depressing.

  reply	other threads:[~2018-06-26 16:44 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 92+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2018-06-13  5:05 [Qemu-trivial] [PATCH 0/4] Clean up accelerator options Thomas Huth
2018-06-13  5:05 ` [Qemu-devel] " Thomas Huth
2018-06-13  5:05 ` [Qemu-trivial] [PATCH 1/4] Replace '-machine accel=xyz' with '-accel xyz' Thomas Huth
2018-06-13  5:05   ` [Qemu-devel] " Thomas Huth
2018-06-13 12:20   ` [Qemu-trivial] " Eric Blake
2018-06-13 12:20     ` Eric Blake
2018-06-13 12:48   ` [Qemu-trivial] " Paolo Bonzini
2018-06-13 12:48     ` [Qemu-devel] " Paolo Bonzini
2018-06-13 12:53     ` [Qemu-trivial] " Thomas Huth
2018-06-13 12:53       ` [Qemu-devel] " Thomas Huth
2018-06-13 13:54       ` [Qemu-trivial] " Paolo Bonzini
2018-06-13 13:54         ` [Qemu-devel] " Paolo Bonzini
2018-06-13 14:12         ` [Qemu-trivial] " Thomas Huth
2018-06-13 14:12           ` Thomas Huth
2018-06-13 16:10       ` [Qemu-trivial] " Eduardo Habkost
2018-06-13 16:10         ` [Qemu-devel] " Eduardo Habkost
2018-06-13 13:38   ` [Qemu-trivial] " Stefan Hajnoczi
2018-06-13 13:38     ` [Qemu-devel] " Stefan Hajnoczi
2018-06-13  5:05 ` [Qemu-trivial] [PATCH 2/4] Replace '-enable-kvm' with '-accel kvm' in docs and help texts Thomas Huth
2018-06-13  5:05   ` [Qemu-devel] " Thomas Huth
2018-06-13 12:51   ` [Qemu-trivial] " Paolo Bonzini
2018-06-13 12:51     ` [Qemu-devel] " Paolo Bonzini
2018-06-13 13:38   ` [Qemu-trivial] " Stefan Hajnoczi
2018-06-13 13:38     ` [Qemu-devel] " Stefan Hajnoczi
2018-06-13  5:05 ` [Qemu-trivial] [PATCH 3/4] qemu-options: Improve the documentation of '-accel' and '-machine accel=...' Thomas Huth
2018-06-13  5:05   ` [Qemu-devel] " Thomas Huth
2018-06-13 13:38   ` [Qemu-trivial] " Stefan Hajnoczi
2018-06-13 13:38     ` [Qemu-devel] " Stefan Hajnoczi
2018-06-13  5:05 ` [Qemu-trivial] [RFC PATCH 4/4] qemu-options: Do not show -enable-kvm and -enable-hax in the docs anymore Thomas Huth
2018-06-13  5:05   ` [Qemu-devel] " Thomas Huth
2018-06-13 12:51   ` [Qemu-trivial] " Paolo Bonzini
2018-06-13 12:51     ` [Qemu-devel] " Paolo Bonzini
2018-06-13 13:38   ` [Qemu-trivial] " Stefan Hajnoczi
2018-06-13 13:38     ` [Qemu-devel] " Stefan Hajnoczi
2018-06-13 13:44     ` [Qemu-trivial] " Daniel P. Berrangé
2018-06-13 13:44       ` Daniel P. Berrangé
2018-06-13 15:11       ` [Qemu-trivial] " Thomas Huth
2018-06-13 15:11         ` Thomas Huth
2018-06-13 15:19         ` [Qemu-trivial] " Daniel P. Berrangé
2018-06-13 15:19           ` Daniel P. Berrangé
2018-06-13 15:44           ` [Qemu-trivial] " Thomas Huth
2018-06-13 15:44             ` Thomas Huth
2018-06-13 16:02           ` [Qemu-trivial] " Markus Armbruster
2018-06-13 16:02             ` Markus Armbruster
2018-06-19 15:15             ` [Qemu-trivial] " Cornelia Huck
2018-06-19 15:15               ` Cornelia Huck
2018-06-19 16:16               ` [Qemu-trivial] " Paolo Bonzini
2018-06-19 16:16                 ` Paolo Bonzini
2018-06-22 18:11                 ` [Qemu-trivial] " Eduardo Habkost
2018-06-22 18:11                   ` Eduardo Habkost
2018-06-22 19:19                   ` [Qemu-trivial] " Thomas Huth
2018-06-22 19:19                     ` Thomas Huth
2018-06-22 19:35                     ` [Qemu-trivial] " Eduardo Habkost
2018-06-22 19:35                       ` Eduardo Habkost
2018-06-22 21:22                       ` [Qemu-trivial] " Paolo Bonzini
2018-06-22 21:22                         ` Paolo Bonzini
2018-06-25  6:50                         ` [Qemu-trivial] " Markus Armbruster
2018-06-25  6:50                           ` Markus Armbruster
2018-06-25 10:28                           ` [Qemu-trivial] " Paolo Bonzini
2018-06-25 10:28                             ` Paolo Bonzini
2018-06-25 17:30                             ` [Qemu-trivial] " Eduardo Habkost
2018-06-25 17:30                               ` Eduardo Habkost
2018-06-25 18:26                               ` [Qemu-trivial] " Paolo Bonzini
2018-06-25 18:26                                 ` Paolo Bonzini
2018-06-25 19:51                                 ` [Qemu-trivial] " Eduardo Habkost
2018-06-25 19:51                                   ` Eduardo Habkost
2018-06-26  5:57                                   ` [Qemu-trivial] " Paolo Bonzini
2018-06-26  5:57                                     ` Paolo Bonzini
2018-06-26 12:29                                     ` [Qemu-trivial] " Eduardo Habkost
2018-06-26 12:29                                       ` Eduardo Habkost
2018-06-26 13:05                                       ` [Qemu-trivial] " Paolo Bonzini
2018-06-26 13:05                                         ` Paolo Bonzini
2018-06-26 16:06                                         ` [Qemu-trivial] " Eduardo Habkost
2018-06-26 16:06                                           ` Eduardo Habkost
2018-06-26 16:10                                           ` [Qemu-trivial] " Daniel P. Berrangé
2018-06-26 16:10                                             ` Daniel P. Berrangé
2018-06-27  8:39                                           ` [Qemu-trivial] " Paolo Bonzini
2018-06-27  8:39                                             ` Paolo Bonzini
2018-06-27 14:05                                             ` [Qemu-trivial] " Eduardo Habkost
2018-06-27 14:05                                               ` Eduardo Habkost
2018-06-26  4:40                                 ` [Qemu-trivial] " Thomas Huth
2018-06-26  4:40                                   ` Thomas Huth
2018-06-26  7:50                                   ` [Qemu-trivial] " Cornelia Huck
2018-06-26  7:50                                     ` Cornelia Huck
2018-06-26 12:56                                     ` [Qemu-trivial] " Eduardo Habkost
2018-06-26 12:56                                       ` Eduardo Habkost
2018-06-26 16:43                                       ` Markus Armbruster [this message]
2018-06-26 16:43                                         ` Markus Armbruster
2018-06-27  8:49                                         ` [Qemu-trivial] " Paolo Bonzini
2018-06-27  8:49                                           ` Paolo Bonzini
2018-06-13 13:39 ` [Qemu-trivial] [PATCH 0/4] Clean up accelerator options Stefan Hajnoczi
2018-06-13 13:39   ` [Qemu-devel] " Stefan Hajnoczi

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