ALSA homepage redesign

ALSA homepage redesign

[Patrick Shirkey]

I have now migrated the new ALSA homepage. It was redesigned to be more user friendly.

http://www.alsa-project.org

I will now add new links to the native applications page.

So far I have:

jack 
Ardour
TiMidity
Glame
PD
Rosengarden
MusE


Are these correct and are there any others?

--
Patrick Shirkey - Boost Hardware Ltd
For the discerning hardware connoisseur
Http://www.boosthardware.com
Http://www.boosthardware.com/LAU/Linux_Audio_Users_Guide/

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Re: ALSA homepage redesign

[Maarten de Boer]

Hello Patrick, 

Looks very nice.

Am I correctly assuming that you will be the maintainer of the ALSA pages
from now on?

Could you add the following alsa 0.9 applications I wrote:

http://www.iua.upf.es/~mdeboer/projects/tapiir/

http://www.iua.upf.es/~mdeboer/projects/aconnectgui/

http://www.iua.upf.es/~mdeboer/projects/alsamixergui/

Thanks,

Maarten

Re: ALSA homepage redesign

[Andy Wingo]

On Wed, 17 Apr 2002, Patrick Shirkey wrote:

> I have now migrated the new ALSA homepage. It was redesigned to be more user friendly.

Excellent!

> I will now add new links to the native applications page.
[...]
> Are these correct and are there any others?

GStreamer has an alsa 0.9 plugin, fwiw.

regards,

wingo.

Re: ALSA homepage redesign

[Eric Dantan Rzewnicki]

Hi Patrick,

Thanks for doing this.

The new page doesn't say anything about using the 0.9.x version rather
than 0.5.x. Is it possible to have the main page make it clear that
0.9.0beta12 is the version new users and developers should start with?

-Eric Rz.

Patrick Shirkey wrote:
> 
> I have now migrated the new ALSA homepage. It was redesigned to be more user friendly.
> 
> http://www.alsa-project.org
> 
> I will now add new links to the native applications page.
> 
> So far I have:
> 
> jack
> Ardour
> TiMidity
> Glame
> PD
> Rosengarden
> MusE
> 
> Are these correct and are there any others?
> 
> --

Re: ALSA homepage redesign

[James Courtier-Dutton]

Eric Dantan Rzewnicki wrote:

>Hi Patrick,
>
>Thanks for doing this.
>
>The new page doesn't say anything about using the 0.9.x version rather
>than 0.5.x. Is it possible to have the main page make it clear that
>0.9.0beta12 is the version new users and developers should start with?
>
>-Eric Rz.
>
>Patrick Shirkey wrote:
>  
>
>>I have now migrated the new ALSA homepage. It was redesigned to be more user friendly.
>>
>>http://www.alsa-project.org
>>
>>I will now add new links to the native applications page.
>>
>>So far I have:
>>
>>jack
>>Ardour
>>TiMidity
>>Glame
>>PD
>>Rosengarden
>>MusE
>>
>>Are these correct and are there any others?
>>
>>--
>>    
>>

Currently, xine (http://xine.sf.net) supports the 0.9.x alsa interface 
but not the 0.5.x interface.
I think we should have a section on the web site for the different 
applications which support different alsa versions.

Cheers
James

Re: [linux-audio-dev] Re: ALSA homepage redesign

[Joern Nettingsmeier]

James Courtier-Dutton wrote:
> 
<...> 
> I think we should have a section on the web site for the different
> applications which support different alsa versions.
> 

NOOOO. could we please please please annihilate every last little
trace of alsa 0.5.x from that page ?
if that's the stable release, people should be using kernel 1.2 on
an 8086 (as everyone knows, that's the stable release of the
pentium).

if it has to be, add a very small link to *OBSOLETE* releases and
apps that use them, but please not on the front page. i don't know
how often i have told newbies who had just freshly installed
"stable" to ditch it and start over with 0.9...

i don't see why jaroslav has sticked to this stable/unstable naming
scheme so long, but probably he had too many other things to do.
patrick, please fix this asap.

set_rant_mode(off);

really like the new site. good to see it maintained, and the three
main links for different interest groups are an excellent idea.

jörn





--
Watch out where the huskies go and don't you eat
the yellow snow !
	- Frank Zappa

Re: [linux-audio-dev] Re: ALSA homepage redesign

[Juan Linietsky]

On Thu, 18 Apr 2002 18:18:51 +0200
Joern Nettingsmeier <nettings@folkwang-hochschule.de> wrote:

> James Courtier-Dutton wrote:
> > 
> <...> 
> > I think we should have a section on the web site for the different
> > applications which support different alsa versions.
> > 
> 
> NOOOO. could we please please please annihilate every last little
> trace of alsa 0.5.x from that page ?
> if that's the stable release, people should be using kernel 1.2 on
> an 8086 (as everyone knows, that's the stable release of the
> pentium).
> 
> if it has to be, add a very small link to *OBSOLETE* releases and
> apps that use them, but please not on the front page. i don't know
> how often i have told newbies who had just freshly installed
> "stable" to ditch it and start over with 0.9...
> 
> i don't see why jaroslav has sticked to this stable/unstable naming
> scheme so long, but probably he had too many other things to do.
> patrick, please fix this asap.
> 
> set_rant_mode(off);
> 
> really like the new site. good to see it maintained, and the three
> main links for different interest groups are an excellent idea.
> 
> jörn
> 
> 

I second the motion, alsa 0.5.x not only is way more unstable than 0.9.x in all the cards i've tried it with (and specially sblive) but more incompatible. I think "obsolete" will fit perfect for it.

Juan Linietsky

Re: [linux-audio-dev] Re: ALSA homepage redesign

[Fred Gleason]

On Thu, 18 Apr 2002, Joern Nettingsmeier wrote:

> NOOOO. could we please please please annihilate every last little
> trace of alsa 0.5.x from that page ?

I'd like to add my vote for this here too.  The whole 0.5.x vs. 0.9.x
thing is *hugely* confusing -- to me, to programmers, and to end users.  
If 0.9.x is the stable API (it *is*, isn't it??), then let's all get
behind it and PUSH.  In the same vein, let's get the docs for the ancient
0.2.0 stuff off the site too.  They just muddy the waters at this point.

Cheers!


|-------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|Frederick F. Gleason, Jr.|WAVA Radio - 105 FM |Voice: 1-(703)-807-2266   |
| Director of Engineering |1901 N. Moore Street|  FAX: 1-(703)-807-2245   |
|                         |Arlington, VA 22209 |  Web: HTTP://www.wava.com|
|-------------------------------------------------------------------------|
| WASHINGTON DC:  Fifty square miles almost completely surrounded by      |
|                 reality.                                                |
|-------------------------------------------------------------------------|

Re: [linux-audio-dev] Re: ALSA homepage redesign

[James Tappin]

On Thursday 18 April 2002 18:27, Fred Gleason wrote:
> On Thu, 18 Apr 2002, Joern Nettingsmeier wrote:
> > NOOOO. could we please please please annihilate every last little
> > trace of alsa 0.5.x from that page ?
>
> I'd like to add my vote for this here too.  The whole 0.5.x vs. 0.9.x
> thing is *hugely* confusing -- to me, to programmers, and to end users.
> If 0.9.x is the stable API (it *is*, isn't it??), then let's all get
> behind it and PUSH.  In the same vein, let's get the docs for the
> ancient 0.2.0 stuff off the site too.  They just muddy the waters at
> this point.

Is it perhaps time for an alsa-0.9.rc1 many people will be frightened off 
by the beta designation, and certainly mislead into thinking that 0.5 is 
the "safer" option.

Just a thought anyway.

	James

-- 
James Tappin,               O__      "I forget the punishment for using
james@xena.uklinux.net     --  \/`    Microsoft --- Something lingering
http://www.xena.uklinux.net/          with data loss in it I fancy"  

Re: [linux-audio-dev] Re: ALSA homepage redesign

[Fred Gleason]

On Thu, 18 Apr 2002, James Tappin wrote:

> Is it perhaps time for an alsa-0.9.rc1 many people will be frightened off 
> by the beta designation, and certainly mislead into thinking that 0.5 is 
> the "safer" option.

My understanding is that SuSE 8.0 is shipping with 0.9.0beta12.  That's
starting to sound pretty stable to me.

Cheers!


|-------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|Frederick F. Gleason, Jr.|WAVA Radio - 105 FM |Voice: 1-(703)-807-2266   |
| Director of Engineering |1901 N. Moore Street|  FAX: 1-(703)-807-2245   |
|                         |Arlington, VA 22209 |  Web: HTTP://www.wava.com|
|-------------------------------------------------------------------------|
| It must be remembered that there is nothing more difficult to plan,     |
| more doubtful of success, nor more dangerous to manage, than the        |
| creation of a new system.  For the initiator has the enmity of all who  |
| would profit by the preservation of the old institutions and merely     |
| lukewarm defenders in those who would gain by the new ones.             |
|                                -- Niccolo Machiavelli                   |
|-------------------------------------------------------------------------|

Re: [linux-audio-dev] Re: ALSA homepage redesign

[Thierry Vignaud]

Fred Gleason <fredg@wava.com> writes:

> > Is it perhaps time for an alsa-0.9.rc1 many people will be
> > frightened off by the beta designation, and certainly mislead into
> > thinking that 0.5 is the "safer" option.
>
> My understanding is that SuSE 8.0 is shipping with 0.9.0beta12.  That's
> starting to sound pretty stable to me.

in mandrake, we've just switched to 0.9.x too (a couple of weeks ago).

libalsa, arts, alsaplayer, mplayer, xine, have been recompiled for
0.9.x

there's still, libsdl, wine, ... to be ported to 0.9.x

-- 
"il a ete brule au 28e degre" (the naheulbeuk witch)
"c curieux, gcc fonctionne" (gwenole)

Re: [linux-audio-dev] Re: ALSA homepage redesign

[Takashi Iwai]

Hi,

At Thu, 18 Apr 2002 21:32:07 +0200,
Thierry Vignaud wrote:
> 
> Fred Gleason <fredg@wava.com> writes:
> 
> > > Is it perhaps time for an alsa-0.9.rc1 many people will be
> > > frightened off by the beta designation, and certainly mislead into
> > > thinking that 0.5 is the "safer" option.
> >
> > My understanding is that SuSE 8.0 is shipping with 0.9.0beta12.  That's
> > starting to sound pretty stable to me.
> 
> in mandrake, we've just switched to 0.9.x too (a couple of weeks ago).
> 
> libalsa, arts, alsaplayer, mplayer, xine, have been recompiled for
> 0.9.x
> 
> there's still, libsdl, wine, ... to be ported to 0.9.x

JFYI: the cvs version of SDL supports already ALSA 0.9.

does wine have native support for ALSA?

wineoss doesn't work on 0.9.0beta12 due to a bug of alsa's OSS mmap
emulation.  it was fixed on the cvs.

one of big missing is freeamp.
does anyone know a freeamp port to ALSA 0.9?


Takashi

Re: [linux-audio-dev] Re: ALSA homepage redesign

[James Courtier-Dutton]

Joern Nettingsmeier wrote:

>James Courtier-Dutton wrote:
>  
>
><...> 
>  
>
>>I think we should have a section on the web site for the different
>>applications which support different alsa versions.
>>
>>    
>>
>
>NOOOO. could we please please please annihilate every last little
>trace of alsa 0.5.x from that page ?
>if that's the stable release, people should be using kernel 1.2 on
>an 8086 (as everyone knows, that's the stable release of the
>pentium).
>
>if it has to be, add a very small link to *OBSOLETE* releases and
>apps that use them, but please not on the front page. i don't know
>how often i have told newbies who had just freshly installed
>"stable" to ditch it and start over with 0.9...
>
>i don't see why jaroslav has sticked to this stable/unstable naming
>scheme so long, but probably he had too many other things to do.
>patrick, please fix this asap.
>
>set_rant_mode(off);
>
>really like the new site. good to see it maintained, and the three
>main links for different interest groups are an excellent idea.
>
>jrn
>
>  
>
I agree with you. The web site currently only mentions applications 
compatible with alsa 0.5.x
There is no mention of 0.9.x at all in the applications section.
If alsa follows ISO9000 release numbering guidelines, the full, non beta 
release should be called 0.10.x
Apparently you should not have beta 0.9.x and then go to full release 
0.9.x, apparently one should go to 0.10.x for the first non-beta 
release, and then only have bug fixes updating 0.10.x. Maybe that is why 
the linux kernel follows this pattern. Developement 2.3.x, release 
2.4.x, development 2.5.x, release 2.6.x

Cheers
James

RE: [linux-audio-dev] Re: ALSA homepage redesign

[Bob Colwell]

Here's what you get for leaving off the smiley -- until such time as
software has fewer bugs than the hardware, the following is a cheap
shot. -BobC

if that's the stable release, people should be using kernel 1.2 on
an 8086 (as everyone knows, that's the stable release of the
pentium).

Re: ALSA homepage redesign

[joy ping]

nice,

mplayer has also alsa9 and alsa5 plugins.

On Wed, 17 Apr 2002, Patrick Shirkey wrote:

> I have now migrated the new ALSA homepage. It was redesigned to be more user friendly.
>
> http://www.alsa-project.org
>
> I will now add new links to the native applications page.
>
> So far I have:
>
> jack
> Ardour
> TiMidity
> Glame
> PD
> Rosengarden
> MusE
>
>
> Are these correct and are there any others?
>
> --
> Patrick Shirkey - Boost Hardware Ltd
> For the discerning hardware connoisseur
> Http://www.boosthardware.com
> Http://www.boosthardware.com/LAU/Linux_Audio_Users_Guide/
>
> _____________________________________________________________
> Want a new web-based email account ? ---> http://www.firstlinux.net
>
> _____________________________________________________________
> Run a small business? Then you need professional email like you@yourbiz.com from Everyone.net  http://www.everyone.net?tag
>
> _______________________________________________
> Alsa-devel mailing list
> Alsa-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/alsa-devel
>

Re: [linux-audio-dev] ALSA homepage redesign

[Josh Green]

On Wed, 2002-04-17 at 23:00, Patrick Shirkey wrote:
> I have now migrated the new ALSA homepage. It was redesigned to be more user friendly.
> 
> http://www.alsa-project.org
> 

Looking good, and its nice to know someone is working on it.
I noticed that the documentation doesn't have the Doxygen generated API
reference for ALSA lib though. In fact I can no longer find it on the
web site. I like many of the other suggestions about taking down the
older docs to lesson the confusion factor as well.

> I will now add new links to the native applications page.
> 
> So far I have:
> 
> jack 
> Ardour
> TiMidity
> Glame
> PD
> Rosengarden
> MusE
> 
> 
> Are these correct and are there any others?
> 

If you are counting ALSA sequencer support than the Smurf Sound Font
Editor could be added. Perhaps there should be a designation of what
kind of support the program provides (sequencer and/or PCM), maybe..
iiwusynth could also be added.

Cheers!
	Josh Green

Re: ALSA homepage redesign

[Patrick Shirkey]

I can add something but what is the official view from Jaroslav?



--
Patrick Shirkey - Boost Hardware Ltd
For the discerning hardware connoisseur
Http://www.boosthardware.com
Http://www.boosthardware.com/LAU/Linux_Audio_Users_Guide/


--- Eric Dantan Rzewnicki <eric@zhevny.com> wrote:
>Hi Patrick,
>
>Thanks for doing this.
>
>The new page doesn't say anything about using the 0.9.x version rather
>than 0.5.x. Is it possible to have the main page make it clear that
>0.9.0beta12 is the version new users and developers should start with?
>
>-Eric Rz.
>
>Patrick Shirkey wrote:
>> 
>> I have now migrated the new ALSA homepage. It was redesigned to be more user friendly.
>> 
>> http://www.alsa-project.org
>> 
>> I will now add new links to the native applications page.
>> 
>> So far I have:
>> 
>> jack
>> Ardour
>> TiMidity
>> Glame
>> PD
>> Rosengarden
>> MusE
>> 
>> Are these correct and are there any others?
>> 
>> --

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Re: ALSA homepage redesign

[Jaroslav Kysela]

On Sun, 21 Apr 2002, Patrick Shirkey wrote:

> I can add something but what is the official view from Jaroslav?

0.5.x release is no longer supported from the developer perspective. All 
our focus is in 0.9.x codebase. I'll release 0.9.0rc1 ASAP (after fixing
and testing a few changes), so it'll be clear that the API is finished and 
code is working.

It would be nice, if someone helps us with the doxygen documentation and 
cross-reference guide so we can release 0.9.0 final in a few months.

						Jaroslav

> --- Eric Dantan Rzewnicki <eric@zhevny.com> wrote:
> >Hi Patrick,
> >
> >Thanks for doing this.
> >
> >The new page doesn't say anything about using the 0.9.x version rather
> >than 0.5.x. Is it possible to have the main page make it clear that
> >0.9.0beta12 is the version new users and developers should start with?
> >
> >-Eric Rz.
> >
> >Patrick Shirkey wrote:
> >> 
> >> I have now migrated the new ALSA homepage. It was redesigned to be more user friendly.
> >> 
> >> http://www.alsa-project.org
> >> 
> >> I will now add new links to the native applications page.
> >> 
> >> So far I have:
> >> 
> >> jack
> >> Ardour
> >> TiMidity
> >> Glame
> >> PD
> >> Rosengarden
> >> MusE
> >> 
> >> Are these correct and are there any others?

-----
Jaroslav Kysela <perex@suse.cz>
Linux Kernel Sound Maintainer
ALSA Project  http://www.alsa-project.org
SuSE Linux    http://www.suse.com

Re: ALSA homepage redesign

[Thomas Fjellstrom]

On April 22, 2002 05:10 am, you wrote:
> On Sun, 21 Apr 2002, Patrick Shirkey wrote:
> > I can add something but what is the official view from Jaroslav?
>
> 0.5.x release is no longer supported from the developer perspective. All
> our focus is in 0.9.x codebase. I'll release 0.9.0rc1 ASAP (after fixing
> and testing a few changes), so it'll be clear that the API is finished and
> code is working.

It is? Last time I tried using Rawmidi on an emu10k1 chip I got no sound. I 
had a soundfont loaded, and tried with my own code and the rawmidi demo 
source. Midi would play with the pmidi program. I've mentioned it once 
before, nothing came of it, so Im mentioning it again. :)

> It would be nice, if someone helps us with the doxygen documentation and
> cross-reference guide so we can release 0.9.0 final in a few months.
>


-- 
Thomas Fjellstrom
tfjellstrom@shaw.ca
http://strangesoft.net

Re: ALSA homepage redesign

[Paul Davis]

>> and testing a few changes), so it'll be clear that the API is finished and
>> code is working.
>
>It is? Last time I tried using Rawmidi on an emu10k1 chip I got no sound. I 
>had a soundfont loaded, and tried with my own code and the rawmidi demo 
>source. Midi would play with the pmidi program. I've mentioned it once 
>before, nothing came of it, so Im mentioning it again. :)

most people don't understand that there is a total of about 2 people
working on ALSA at any one time. ALSA is not a large, distributed
project team: it consists of Jaroslav and right now Takashi, with
occasional contributions from driver writers and application
developers who wade into the ALSA source code.

when problems get reported with particular chipsets/audio interfaces,
there is no large group of developers from which one might hope for a
volunteer to study the bug. Takashi and Jaroslav both do good work
tracking down such bugs when they have easy access to the hardware in
question and some time, but for most everything else, the bug waits
until someone steps up to fix it. the hope is that with incorporation
into the 2.5 kernel source base, the set of developers who work on
problems like yours will increase.

--p

Re: ALSA homepage redesign

[Patrick Shirkey]

--- James Courtier-Dutton <James@superbug.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>
>Currently, xine (http://xine.sf.net) supports the 0.9.x alsa interface 
>but not the 0.5.x interface.
>I think we should have a section on the web site for the different 
>applications which support different alsa versions.
>
>Cheers
>James
>
>

This is already happening and I will add xine.

--
Patrick Shirkey - Boost Hardware Ltd
For the discerning hardware connoisseur
Http://www.boosthardware.com
Http://www.boosthardware.com/LAU/Linux_Audio_Users_Guide/


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Re: ALSA homepage redesign

[Thomas Fjellstrom]

On April 22, 2002 08:12 am, you wrote:
> >> and testing a few changes), so it'll be clear that the API is finished
> >> and code is working.
> >
> >It is? Last time I tried using Rawmidi on an emu10k1 chip I got no sound.
> > I had a soundfont loaded, and tried with my own code and the rawmidi demo
> > source. Midi would play with the pmidi program. I've mentioned it once
> > before, nothing came of it, so Im mentioning it again. :)
>
> most people don't understand that there is a total of about 2 people
> working on ALSA at any one time. ALSA is not a large, distributed
> project team: it consists of Jaroslav and right now Takashi, with
> occasional contributions from driver writers and application
> developers who wade into the ALSA source code.
>
> when problems get reported with particular chipsets/audio interfaces,
> there is no large group of developers from which one might hope for a
> volunteer to study the bug. Takashi and Jaroslav both do good work
> tracking down such bugs when they have easy access to the hardware in
> question and some time, but for most everything else, the bug waits
> until someone steps up to fix it. the hope is that with incorporation
> into the 2.5 kernel source base, the set of developers who work on
> problems like yours will increase.
>

Ah. I didn't intend to sound too much like a child... I wasn't trying to 
force the issue, just let the developers know about it. Its what I usually do 
when I find a problem that I can't fix myself. I (hopefully) make sure that 
the right people know about it. 

-- 
Thomas Fjellstrom
tfjellstrom@shaw.ca
http://strangesoft.net