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From: Balbir Singh <balbir@in.ibm.com>
To: Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>
Cc: Mel Gorman <mel@skynet.ie>,
	npiggin@suse.de, clameter@engr.sgi.com, mingo@elte.hu,
	jschopp@austin.ibm.com, arjan@infradead.org,
	torvalds@linux-foundation.org, mbligh@mbligh.org,
	linux-mm@kvack.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: The performance and behaviour of the anti-fragmentation related patches
Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2007 07:09:31 +0530	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <45E78053.6010000@in.ibm.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20070301160915.6da876c5.akpm@linux-foundation.org>

Andrew Morton wrote:
> So some urgent questions are: how are we going to do mem hotunplug and
> per-container RSS?
> 
> 
> 
> Our basic unit of memory management is the zone.  Right now, a zone maps
> onto some hardware-imposed thing.  But the zone-based MM works *well*.  I
> suspect that a good way to solve both per-container RSS and mem hotunplug
> is to split the zone concept away from its hardware limitations: create a
> "software zone" and a "hardware zone".  All the existing page allocator and
> reclaim code remains basically unchanged, and it operates on "software
> zones".  Each software zones always lies within a single hardware zone. 
> The software zones are resizeable.  For per-container RSS we give each
> container one (or perhaps multiple) resizeable software zones.
> 
> For memory hotunplug, some of the hardware zone's software zones are marked
> reclaimable and some are not; DIMMs which are wholly within reclaimable
> zones can be depopulated and powered off or removed.
> 
> NUMA and cpusets screwed up: they've gone and used nodes as their basic
> unit of memory management whereas they should have used zones.  This will
> need to be untangled.
> 
> 
> Anyway, that's just a shot in the dark.  Could be that we implement unplug
> and RSS control by totally different means.  But I do wish that we'd sort
> out what those means will be before we potentially complicate the story a
> lot by adding antifragmentation.
> 

Paul Menage had suggested something very similar in response to the RFC
for memory controllers I sent out and it was suggested that we create
small zones (roughly 64 MB) to avoid the issue of a zone/node not being
a shareable across containers. Even with a small size, there are some 
issues. The following thread has the details discussed.

	http://lkml.org/lkml/2006/10/30/120

RSS accounting is very easy (with minimal changes to the core mm),
supplemented with an efficient per-container reclaimer, it should be
easy to implement a  good per-container RSS controller.

-- 
	Warm Regards,
	Balbir Singh
	Linux Technology Center
	IBM, ISTL

WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Balbir Singh <balbir@in.ibm.com>
To: Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>
Cc: Mel Gorman <mel@skynet.ie>,
	npiggin@suse.de, clameter@engr.sgi.com, mingo@elte.hu,
	jschopp@austin.ibm.com, arjan@infradead.org,
	torvalds@linux-foundation.org, mbligh@mbligh.org,
	linux-mm@kvack.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: The performance and behaviour of the anti-fragmentation related patches
Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2007 07:09:31 +0530	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <45E78053.6010000@in.ibm.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20070301160915.6da876c5.akpm@linux-foundation.org>

Andrew Morton wrote:
> So some urgent questions are: how are we going to do mem hotunplug and
> per-container RSS?
> 
> 
> 
> Our basic unit of memory management is the zone.  Right now, a zone maps
> onto some hardware-imposed thing.  But the zone-based MM works *well*.  I
> suspect that a good way to solve both per-container RSS and mem hotunplug
> is to split the zone concept away from its hardware limitations: create a
> "software zone" and a "hardware zone".  All the existing page allocator and
> reclaim code remains basically unchanged, and it operates on "software
> zones".  Each software zones always lies within a single hardware zone. 
> The software zones are resizeable.  For per-container RSS we give each
> container one (or perhaps multiple) resizeable software zones.
> 
> For memory hotunplug, some of the hardware zone's software zones are marked
> reclaimable and some are not; DIMMs which are wholly within reclaimable
> zones can be depopulated and powered off or removed.
> 
> NUMA and cpusets screwed up: they've gone and used nodes as their basic
> unit of memory management whereas they should have used zones.  This will
> need to be untangled.
> 
> 
> Anyway, that's just a shot in the dark.  Could be that we implement unplug
> and RSS control by totally different means.  But I do wish that we'd sort
> out what those means will be before we potentially complicate the story a
> lot by adding antifragmentation.
> 

Paul Menage had suggested something very similar in response to the RFC
for memory controllers I sent out and it was suggested that we create
small zones (roughly 64 MB) to avoid the issue of a zone/node not being
a shareable across containers. Even with a small size, there are some 
issues. The following thread has the details discussed.

	http://lkml.org/lkml/2006/10/30/120

RSS accounting is very easy (with minimal changes to the core mm),
supplemented with an efficient per-container reclaimer, it should be
easy to implement a  good per-container RSS controller.

-- 
	Warm Regards,
	Balbir Singh
	Linux Technology Center
	IBM, ISTL

--
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  parent reply	other threads:[~2007-03-02  1:39 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 203+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2007-03-01 10:12 The performance and behaviour of the anti-fragmentation related patches Mel Gorman
2007-03-01 10:12 ` Mel Gorman
2007-03-02  0:09 ` Andrew Morton
2007-03-02  0:44   ` Linus Torvalds
2007-03-02  1:52     ` Balbir Singh
2007-03-02  1:52       ` Balbir Singh
2007-03-02  3:44       ` Linus Torvalds
2007-03-02  3:44         ` Linus Torvalds
2007-03-02  3:59         ` Andrew Morton
2007-03-02  3:59           ` Andrew Morton
2007-03-02  5:11           ` Linus Torvalds
2007-03-02  5:11             ` Linus Torvalds
2007-03-02  5:50             ` KAMEZAWA Hiroyuki
2007-03-02  5:50               ` KAMEZAWA Hiroyuki
2007-03-02  6:15               ` Paul Mundt
2007-03-02  6:15                 ` Paul Mundt
2007-03-02 17:01                 ` Mel Gorman
2007-03-02 17:01                   ` Mel Gorman
2007-03-02 16:20             ` Mark Gross
2007-03-02 16:20               ` Mark Gross
2007-03-02 17:07               ` Andrew Morton
2007-03-02 17:07                 ` Andrew Morton
2007-03-02 17:35                 ` Mark Gross
2007-03-02 17:35                   ` Mark Gross
2007-03-02 18:02                   ` Andrew Morton
2007-03-02 18:02                     ` Andrew Morton
2007-03-02 19:02                     ` Mark Gross
2007-03-02 19:02                       ` Mark Gross
2007-03-02 17:16               ` Linus Torvalds
2007-03-02 17:16                 ` Linus Torvalds
2007-03-02 18:45                 ` Mark Gross
2007-03-02 18:45                   ` Mark Gross
2007-03-02 19:03                   ` Linus Torvalds
2007-03-02 19:03                     ` Linus Torvalds
2007-03-02 23:58                 ` Martin J. Bligh
2007-03-02 23:58                   ` Martin J. Bligh
2007-03-02  4:18         ` Balbir Singh
2007-03-02  4:18           ` Balbir Singh
2007-03-02  5:13         ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-02  5:13           ` Jeremy Fitzhardinge
2007-03-06  4:16         ` Paul Mackerras
2007-03-06  4:16           ` Paul Mackerras
2007-03-02 16:58     ` Mel Gorman
2007-03-02 16:58       ` Mel Gorman
2007-03-02 17:05     ` Joel Schopp
2007-03-02 17:05       ` Joel Schopp
2007-03-05  3:21       ` Nick Piggin
2007-03-05  3:21         ` Nick Piggin
2007-03-05 15:20         ` Joel Schopp
2007-03-05 15:20           ` Joel Schopp
2007-03-05 16:01           ` Nick Piggin
2007-03-05 16:01             ` Nick Piggin
2007-03-05 16:45             ` Joel Schopp
2007-03-05 16:45               ` Joel Schopp
2007-05-03  8:49           ` Andy Whitcroft
2007-05-03  8:49             ` Andy Whitcroft
2007-03-02  1:39   ` Balbir Singh [this message]
2007-03-02  1:39     ` Balbir Singh
2007-03-02  2:34   ` KAMEZAWA Hiroyuki
2007-03-02  2:34     ` KAMEZAWA Hiroyuki
2007-03-02  3:05   ` Christoph Lameter
2007-03-02  3:05     ` Christoph Lameter
2007-03-02  3:57     ` Nick Piggin
2007-03-02  3:57       ` Nick Piggin
2007-03-02  4:06       ` Christoph Lameter
2007-03-02  4:06         ` Christoph Lameter
2007-03-02  4:21         ` Nick Piggin
2007-03-02  4:21           ` Nick Piggin
2007-03-02  4:31           ` Christoph Lameter
2007-03-02  4:31             ` Christoph Lameter
2007-03-02  5:06             ` Nick Piggin
2007-03-02  5:06               ` Nick Piggin
2007-03-02  5:40               ` Christoph Lameter
2007-03-02  5:40                 ` Christoph Lameter
2007-03-02  5:49                 ` Nick Piggin
2007-03-02  5:49                   ` Nick Piggin
2007-03-02  5:53                   ` Christoph Lameter
2007-03-02  5:53                     ` Christoph Lameter
2007-03-02  6:08                     ` Nick Piggin
2007-03-02  6:08                       ` Nick Piggin
2007-03-02  6:19                       ` Christoph Lameter
2007-03-02  6:19                         ` Christoph Lameter
2007-03-02  6:29                         ` Nick Piggin
2007-03-02  6:29                           ` Nick Piggin
2007-03-02  6:51                           ` Christoph Lameter
2007-03-02  6:51                             ` Christoph Lameter
2007-03-02  7:03                             ` Andrew Morton
2007-03-02  7:03                               ` Andrew Morton
2007-03-02  7:19                             ` Nick Piggin
2007-03-02  7:19                               ` Nick Piggin
2007-03-02  7:44                               ` Christoph Lameter
2007-03-02  7:44                                 ` Christoph Lameter
2007-03-02  8:12                                 ` Nick Piggin
2007-03-02  8:12                                   ` Nick Piggin
2007-03-02  8:21                                   ` Christoph Lameter
2007-03-02  8:21                                     ` Christoph Lameter
2007-03-02  8:38                                     ` Nick Piggin
2007-03-02  8:38                                       ` Nick Piggin
2007-03-02 17:09                                       ` Christoph Lameter
2007-03-02 17:09                                         ` Christoph Lameter
2007-03-04  1:26                                   ` Rik van Riel
2007-03-04  1:26                                     ` Rik van Riel
2007-03-04  1:51                                     ` Andrew Morton
2007-03-04  1:51                                       ` Andrew Morton
2007-03-04  1:58                                       ` Rik van Riel
2007-03-04  1:58                                         ` Rik van Riel
2007-03-02  5:50               ` Christoph Lameter
2007-03-02  5:50                 ` Christoph Lameter
2007-03-02  4:29         ` Andrew Morton
2007-03-02  4:29           ` Andrew Morton
2007-03-02  4:33           ` Christoph Lameter
2007-03-02  4:33             ` Christoph Lameter
2007-03-02  4:58             ` Andrew Morton
2007-03-02  4:58               ` Andrew Morton
2007-03-02  4:20       ` Paul Mundt
2007-03-02  4:20         ` Paul Mundt
2007-03-02 13:50   ` Arjan van de Ven
2007-03-02 13:50     ` Arjan van de Ven
2007-03-02 15:29   ` Rik van Riel
2007-03-02 15:29     ` Rik van Riel
2007-03-02 16:58     ` Andrew Morton
2007-03-02 16:58       ` Andrew Morton
2007-03-02 17:09       ` Mel Gorman
2007-03-02 17:09         ` Mel Gorman
2007-03-02 17:23       ` Christoph Lameter
2007-03-02 17:23         ` Christoph Lameter
2007-03-02 17:35         ` Andrew Morton
2007-03-02 17:35           ` Andrew Morton
2007-03-02 17:43           ` Rik van Riel
2007-03-02 17:43             ` Rik van Riel
2007-03-02 18:06             ` Andrew Morton
2007-03-02 18:06               ` Andrew Morton
2007-03-02 18:15               ` Christoph Lameter
2007-03-02 18:15                 ` Christoph Lameter
2007-03-02 18:23                 ` Andrew Morton
2007-03-02 18:23                   ` Andrew Morton
2007-03-02 18:23                 ` Rik van Riel
2007-03-02 18:23                   ` Rik van Riel
2007-03-02 19:31                   ` Christoph Lameter
2007-03-02 19:31                     ` Christoph Lameter
2007-03-02 19:40                     ` Rik van Riel
2007-03-02 19:40                       ` Rik van Riel
2007-03-02 21:12                   ` Bill Irwin
2007-03-02 21:12                     ` Bill Irwin
2007-03-02 21:19                     ` Rik van Riel
2007-03-02 21:19                       ` Rik van Riel
2007-03-02 21:52                       ` Andrew Morton
2007-03-02 21:52                         ` Andrew Morton
2007-03-02 22:03                         ` Rik van Riel
2007-03-02 22:03                           ` Rik van Riel
2007-03-02 22:22                           ` Andrew Morton
2007-03-02 22:22                             ` Andrew Morton
2007-03-02 22:34                             ` Rik van Riel
2007-03-02 22:34                               ` Rik van Riel
2007-03-02 22:51                               ` Martin Bligh
2007-03-02 22:51                                 ` Martin Bligh
2007-03-02 22:54                                 ` Rik van Riel
2007-03-02 22:54                                   ` Rik van Riel
2007-03-02 23:28                                   ` Martin J. Bligh
2007-03-02 23:28                                     ` Martin J. Bligh
2007-03-03  0:24                                     ` Andrew Morton
2007-03-03  0:24                                       ` Andrew Morton
2007-03-02 22:52                               ` Chuck Ebbert
2007-03-02 22:52                                 ` Chuck Ebbert
2007-03-02 22:59                               ` Andrew Morton
2007-03-02 22:59                                 ` Andrew Morton
2007-03-02 23:20                                 ` Rik van Riel
2007-03-02 23:20                                   ` Rik van Riel
2007-03-03  1:40                                 ` William Lee Irwin III
2007-03-03  1:40                                   ` William Lee Irwin III
2007-03-03  1:58                                   ` Andrew Morton
2007-03-03  1:58                                     ` Andrew Morton
2007-03-03  3:55                                     ` William Lee Irwin III
2007-03-03  3:55                                       ` William Lee Irwin III
2007-03-02 23:16                             ` [PATCH] : Optimizes timespec_trunc() Eric Dumazet
2007-03-03  0:33                             ` The performance and behaviour of the anti-fragmentation related patches William Lee Irwin III
2007-03-03  0:33                               ` William Lee Irwin III
2007-03-03  0:54                               ` Andrew Morton
2007-03-03  0:54                                 ` Andrew Morton
2007-03-03  3:15                               ` Christoph Lameter
2007-03-03  3:15                                 ` Christoph Lameter
2007-03-03  4:19                                 ` William Lee Irwin III
2007-03-03  4:19                                   ` William Lee Irwin III
2007-03-03 17:16                                 ` Martin J. Bligh
2007-03-03 17:16                                   ` Martin J. Bligh
2007-03-03 17:50                                   ` Christoph Lameter
2007-03-03 17:50                                     ` Christoph Lameter
2007-03-02 20:59               ` Bill Irwin
2007-03-02 20:59                 ` Bill Irwin
2007-03-02 16:32   ` Mel Gorman
2007-03-02 17:19     ` Christoph Lameter
2007-03-02 17:28       ` Mel Gorman
2007-03-02 17:48         ` Christoph Lameter
2007-03-02 17:59           ` Mel Gorman
2007-03-03  4:54     ` KAMEZAWA Hiroyuki
2007-03-02  1:52 ` Bill Irwin
2007-03-02  1:52   ` Bill Irwin
2007-03-02 10:38   ` Mel Gorman
2007-03-02 10:38     ` Mel Gorman
2007-03-02 16:31     ` Joel Schopp
2007-03-02 16:31       ` Joel Schopp
2007-03-02 21:37       ` Bill Irwin
2007-03-02 21:37         ` Bill Irwin

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