All of lore.kernel.org
 help / color / mirror / Atom feed
From: Anthony Liguori <anthony@codemonkey.ws>
To: Avi Kivity <avi@redhat.com>
Cc: "Richard W.M. Jones" <rjones@redhat.com>,
	qemu-devel@nongnu.org, Gleb Natapov <gleb@redhat.com>,
	kvm@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: [Qemu-devel] Anyone seeing huge slowdown launching qemu with Linux 2.6.35?
Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2010 13:26:35 -0500	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <4C585F5B.5070502@codemonkey.ws> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <4C5858B2.9090801@redhat.com>

On 08/03/2010 12:58 PM, Avi Kivity wrote:
>  On 08/03/2010 08:42 PM, Anthony Liguori wrote:
>> However, I don't think we can objectively differentiate between a 
>> "major" and "minor" user.  Generally speaking, I would rather that we 
>> not take the position of "you are a minor user therefore we're not 
>> going to accommodate you".
>
> Again it's a matter of practicalities.  With have written virtio 
> drivers for Windows and Linux, but not for FreeDOS or NetWare.  To 
> speed up Windows XP we have (in qemu-kvm) kvm-tpr-opt.c that is a 
> gross breach of decency, would we go to the same lengths to speed up 
> Haiku?  I suggest that we would not.

tpr-opt optimizes a legitimate dependence on the x86 architecture that 
Windows has.  While the implementation may be grossly indecent, it 
certainly fits the overall mission of what we're trying to do in qemu 
and kvm which is emulate an architecture.

You've invested a lot of time and effort into it because it's important 
to you (or more specifically, your employer).  That's because Windows is 
important to you.

If someone as adept and commit as you was heavily invested in Haiku and 
was willing to implement something equivalent to tpr-opt and also 
willing to do all of the work of maintaining it, then reject such a 
patch would be a mistake.

If Richard is willing to do the work to make -kernel perform faster in 
such a way that it fits into the overall mission of what we're building, 
then I see no reason to reject it.  The criteria for evaluating a patch 
should only depend on how it affects other areas of qemu and whether it 
impacts overall usability.

As a side note, we ought to do a better job of removing features that 
have created a burden on other areas of qemu that aren't actively being 
maintained.  That's a different discussion though.

Regards,

Anthony Liguori

WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Anthony Liguori <anthony@codemonkey.ws>
To: Avi Kivity <avi@redhat.com>
Cc: kvm@vger.kernel.org, "Richard W.M. Jones" <rjones@redhat.com>,
	Gleb Natapov <gleb@redhat.com>,
	qemu-devel@nongnu.org
Subject: Re: [Qemu-devel] Anyone seeing huge slowdown launching qemu with Linux 2.6.35?
Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2010 13:26:35 -0500	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <4C585F5B.5070502@codemonkey.ws> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <4C5858B2.9090801@redhat.com>

On 08/03/2010 12:58 PM, Avi Kivity wrote:
>  On 08/03/2010 08:42 PM, Anthony Liguori wrote:
>> However, I don't think we can objectively differentiate between a 
>> "major" and "minor" user.  Generally speaking, I would rather that we 
>> not take the position of "you are a minor user therefore we're not 
>> going to accommodate you".
>
> Again it's a matter of practicalities.  With have written virtio 
> drivers for Windows and Linux, but not for FreeDOS or NetWare.  To 
> speed up Windows XP we have (in qemu-kvm) kvm-tpr-opt.c that is a 
> gross breach of decency, would we go to the same lengths to speed up 
> Haiku?  I suggest that we would not.

tpr-opt optimizes a legitimate dependence on the x86 architecture that 
Windows has.  While the implementation may be grossly indecent, it 
certainly fits the overall mission of what we're trying to do in qemu 
and kvm which is emulate an architecture.

You've invested a lot of time and effort into it because it's important 
to you (or more specifically, your employer).  That's because Windows is 
important to you.

If someone as adept and commit as you was heavily invested in Haiku and 
was willing to implement something equivalent to tpr-opt and also 
willing to do all of the work of maintaining it, then reject such a 
patch would be a mistake.

If Richard is willing to do the work to make -kernel perform faster in 
such a way that it fits into the overall mission of what we're building, 
then I see no reason to reject it.  The criteria for evaluating a patch 
should only depend on how it affects other areas of qemu and whether it 
impacts overall usability.

As a side note, we ought to do a better job of removing features that 
have created a burden on other areas of qemu that aren't actively being 
maintained.  That's a different discussion though.

Regards,

Anthony Liguori

  parent reply	other threads:[~2010-08-03 18:26 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 285+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2010-08-03 11:13 [Qemu-devel] Anyone seeing huge slowdown launching qemu with Linux 2.6.35? Richard W.M. Jones
2010-08-03 11:33 ` Gleb Natapov
2010-08-03 12:10   ` Richard W.M. Jones
2010-08-03 12:37     ` Gleb Natapov
2010-08-03 12:48       ` Richard W.M. Jones
2010-08-03 13:19         ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-03 13:19           ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-03 14:05           ` Richard W.M. Jones
2010-08-03 14:38             ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-03 14:53               ` Richard W.M. Jones
2010-08-03 16:10                 ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-03 16:28                   ` Richard W.M. Jones
2010-08-03 16:44                     ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-03 16:46                       ` Anthony Liguori
2010-08-03 16:46                         ` Anthony Liguori
2010-08-03 16:50                         ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-03 16:50                           ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-03 16:53                           ` Anthony Liguori
2010-08-03 16:53                             ` Anthony Liguori
2010-08-03 17:01                             ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-03 17:01                               ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-03 17:42                               ` Anthony Liguori
2010-08-03 17:42                                 ` Anthony Liguori
2010-08-03 17:58                                 ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-03 17:58                                   ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-03 18:11                                   ` Richard W.M. Jones
2010-08-03 18:11                                     ` Richard W.M. Jones
2010-08-03 18:26                                   ` Anthony Liguori [this message]
2010-08-03 18:26                                     ` Anthony Liguori
2010-08-03 18:43                                     ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-03 18:43                                       ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-03 18:47                                       ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-03 18:47                                         ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-03 18:55                                       ` Anthony Liguori
2010-08-03 18:55                                         ` Anthony Liguori
2010-08-03 19:00                                         ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-03 19:00                                           ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-03 19:05                                       ` Gleb Natapov
2010-08-03 19:05                                         ` Gleb Natapov
2010-08-03 19:09                                         ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-03 19:09                                           ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-03 19:15                                         ` Anthony Liguori
2010-08-03 19:15                                           ` Anthony Liguori
2010-08-03 19:24                                           ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-03 19:24                                             ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-03 19:38                                             ` Anthony Liguori
2010-08-03 19:38                                               ` Anthony Liguori
2010-08-03 19:41                                               ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-03 19:41                                                 ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-03 19:47                                                 ` Anthony Liguori
2010-08-03 19:47                                                   ` Anthony Liguori
2010-08-04  5:47                                                   ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-04  5:47                                                     ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-03 21:24                                                 ` Gerd Hoffmann
2010-08-03 21:24                                                   ` Gerd Hoffmann
2010-08-03 21:20                                             ` Gerd Hoffmann
2010-08-03 21:20                                               ` Gerd Hoffmann
2010-08-04  5:53                                               ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-04  5:53                                                 ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-04  7:56                                                 ` Gerd Hoffmann
2010-08-04  7:56                                                   ` Gerd Hoffmann
2010-08-04  8:17                                                   ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-04  8:17                                                     ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-04  8:43                                                     ` Gleb Natapov
2010-08-04  8:43                                                       ` Gleb Natapov
2010-08-04  9:22                                                     ` Gerd Hoffmann
2010-08-04  9:22                                                       ` Gerd Hoffmann
2010-08-04 13:04                                                     ` Anthony Liguori
2010-08-04 13:04                                                       ` Anthony Liguori
2010-08-04 13:07                                                       ` Gleb Natapov
2010-08-04 13:07                                                         ` Gleb Natapov
2010-08-04 13:15                                                         ` Anthony Liguori
2010-08-04 13:15                                                           ` Anthony Liguori
2010-08-04 13:24                                                           ` Richard W.M. Jones
2010-08-04 13:24                                                             ` Richard W.M. Jones
2010-08-04 13:26                                                             ` Gleb Natapov
2010-08-04 13:26                                                               ` Gleb Natapov
2010-08-04 14:22                                                               ` Anthony Liguori
2010-08-04 14:22                                                                 ` Anthony Liguori
2010-08-04 14:38                                                                 ` Gleb Natapov
2010-08-04 14:38                                                                   ` Gleb Natapov
2010-08-04 14:50                                                                   ` Anthony Liguori
2010-08-04 14:50                                                                     ` Anthony Liguori
2010-08-04 15:01                                                                     ` Gleb Natapov
2010-08-04 15:01                                                                       ` Gleb Natapov
2010-08-04 15:07                                                                       ` Anthony Liguori
2010-08-04 15:07                                                                         ` Anthony Liguori
2010-08-04 15:15                                                                         ` Gleb Natapov
2010-08-04 15:15                                                                           ` Gleb Natapov
2010-08-04 22:41                                                                       ` Kevin O'Connor
2010-08-04 22:41                                                                         ` Kevin O'Connor
2010-08-04 16:26                                                             ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-04 16:26                                                               ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-04 13:34                                                           ` Gleb Natapov
2010-08-04 13:34                                                             ` Gleb Natapov
2010-08-04 13:52                                                             ` Anthony Liguori
2010-08-04 13:52                                                               ` [Qemu-devel] " Anthony Liguori
2010-08-04 14:00                                                               ` Gleb Natapov
2010-08-04 14:00                                                                 ` Gleb Natapov
2010-08-04 14:14                                                                 ` Anthony Liguori
2010-08-04 14:14                                                                   ` Anthony Liguori
2010-08-04 14:36                                                                   ` Gleb Natapov
2010-08-04 14:36                                                                     ` Gleb Natapov
2010-08-04 14:22                                                                 ` Paolo Bonzini
2010-08-04 14:22                                                                   ` Paolo Bonzini
2010-08-04 14:39                                                                   ` Anthony Liguori
2010-08-04 14:39                                                                     ` Anthony Liguori
2010-08-04 16:33                                                                     ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-04 16:33                                                                       ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-04 16:30                                                               ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-04 16:30                                                                 ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-04 16:36                                                                 ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-04 16:36                                                                   ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-04 16:44                                                                   ` Anthony Liguori
2010-08-04 16:44                                                                     ` Anthony Liguori
2010-08-04 16:52                                                                     ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-04 16:52                                                                       ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-04 17:37                                                                     ` Gleb Natapov
2010-08-04 17:37                                                                       ` Gleb Natapov
2010-08-05  7:28                                                                     ` Gerd Hoffmann
2010-08-05  7:28                                                                       ` Gerd Hoffmann
2010-08-05  7:34                                                                       ` Gleb Natapov
2010-08-05  7:34                                                                         ` Gleb Natapov
2010-08-05  7:56                                                                         ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-05  7:56                                                                           ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-05  7:59                                                                           ` Gleb Natapov
2010-08-05  7:59                                                                             ` Gleb Natapov
2010-08-05  8:45                                                                             ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-05  8:45                                                                               ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-05  8:48                                                                               ` Gleb Natapov
2010-08-05  8:48                                                                                 ` Gleb Natapov
2010-08-05 13:43                                                                       ` Anthony Liguori
2010-08-05 13:43                                                                         ` Anthony Liguori
2010-08-04 16:45                                                                   ` Alexander Graf
2010-08-04 16:45                                                                     ` Alexander Graf
2010-08-04 16:54                                                                     ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-04 16:54                                                                       ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-04 17:01                                                                       ` Alexander Graf
2010-08-04 17:01                                                                         ` Alexander Graf
2010-08-04 17:14                                                                         ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-04 17:14                                                                           ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-04 17:27                                                                           ` Alexander Graf
2010-08-04 17:27                                                                             ` Alexander Graf
2010-08-04 17:34                                                                             ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-04 17:34                                                                               ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-04 20:06                                                                               ` David S. Ahern
2010-08-04 20:06                                                                                 ` David S. Ahern
2010-08-04 20:16                                                                                 ` Richard W.M. Jones
2010-08-04 20:16                                                                                   ` Richard W.M. Jones
2010-08-05  2:38                                                                                 ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-05  2:38                                                                                   ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-04 17:26                                                                     ` Anthony Liguori
2010-08-04 17:26                                                                       ` Anthony Liguori
2010-08-04 17:31                                                                       ` Alexander Graf
2010-08-04 17:31                                                                         ` Alexander Graf
2010-08-04 17:35                                                                         ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-04 17:35                                                                           ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-04 17:36                                                                         ` Anthony Liguori
2010-08-04 17:36                                                                           ` Anthony Liguori
2010-08-04 17:36                                                                           ` Alexander Graf
2010-08-04 17:36                                                                             ` Alexander Graf
2010-08-04 17:46                                                                   ` Richard W.M. Jones
2010-08-04 17:46                                                                     ` Richard W.M. Jones
2010-08-04 17:50                                                                     ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-04 17:50                                                                       ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-04 18:13                                                                     ` Alexander Graf
2010-08-04 18:13                                                                       ` [Qemu-devel] " Alexander Graf
2010-08-04 18:16                                                                       ` Anthony Liguori
2010-08-04 18:16                                                                         ` Anthony Liguori
2010-08-04 18:18                                                                         ` Alexander Graf
2010-08-04 18:18                                                                           ` Alexander Graf
2010-08-04 18:19                                                                         ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-04 18:19                                                                           ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-04 18:18                                                                       ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-04 18:18                                                                         ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-04 16:42                                                                 ` Anthony Liguori
2010-08-04 16:42                                                                   ` Anthony Liguori
2010-08-04 13:22                                                         ` Richard W.M. Jones
2010-08-04 13:22                                                           ` Richard W.M. Jones
2010-08-04 13:29                                                           ` Gleb Natapov
2010-08-04 13:29                                                             ` Gleb Natapov
2010-08-04 16:25                                                       ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-04 16:25                                                         ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-03 22:06                                             ` Richard W.M. Jones
2010-08-03 22:06                                               ` Richard W.M. Jones
2010-08-04  5:54                                               ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-04  5:54                                                 ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-04  9:24                                                 ` Richard W.M. Jones
2010-08-04  9:24                                                   ` Richard W.M. Jones
2010-08-04  9:27                                                   ` Gleb Natapov
2010-08-04  9:27                                                     ` Gleb Natapov
2010-08-04  9:52                                                   ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-04  9:52                                                     ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-04 11:33                                                     ` Richard W.M. Jones
2010-08-04 11:33                                                       ` Richard W.M. Jones
2010-08-04 11:36                                                       ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-04 11:36                                                         ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-04 12:07                                                       ` Gleb Natapov
2010-08-04 12:07                                                         ` Gleb Natapov
2010-08-04 12:59                                                   ` Anthony Liguori
2010-08-04 12:59                                                     ` Anthony Liguori
2010-08-03 19:26                                           ` Gleb Natapov
2010-08-03 19:26                                             ` Gleb Natapov
2010-08-03 19:13                                       ` Richard W.M. Jones
2010-08-03 19:13                                         ` Richard W.M. Jones
2010-08-03 19:17                                         ` Gleb Natapov
2010-08-03 19:17                                           ` Gleb Natapov
2010-08-03 19:19                                         ` Anthony Liguori
2010-08-03 19:19                                           ` Anthony Liguori
2010-08-03 19:22                                         ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-03 19:22                                           ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-03 20:00                                           ` Richard W.M. Jones
2010-08-03 20:00                                             ` Richard W.M. Jones
2010-08-03 20:49                                             ` Anthony Liguori
2010-08-03 20:49                                               ` Anthony Liguori
2010-08-03 21:13                                               ` Paolo Bonzini
2010-08-03 21:13                                                 ` Paolo Bonzini
2010-08-03 21:34                                                 ` Anthony Liguori
2010-08-03 21:34                                                   ` Anthony Liguori
2010-08-04  7:57                                                   ` Paolo Bonzini
2010-08-04  7:57                                                     ` Paolo Bonzini
2010-08-04  8:19                                                     ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-04  8:19                                                       ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-04 12:53                                                     ` Anthony Liguori
2010-08-04 12:53                                                       ` Anthony Liguori
2010-08-04 16:44                                                       ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-04 16:44                                                         ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-04 16:46                                                         ` Anthony Liguori
2010-08-04 16:46                                                           ` Anthony Liguori
2010-08-04 16:48                                                           ` Alexander Graf
2010-08-04 16:48                                                             ` Alexander Graf
2010-08-04 16:49                                                             ` Anthony Liguori
2010-08-04 16:49                                                               ` Anthony Liguori
2010-08-04 16:51                                                               ` Alexander Graf
2010-08-04 16:51                                                                 ` Alexander Graf
2010-08-04 17:01                                                               ` Paolo Bonzini
2010-08-04 17:01                                                                 ` Paolo Bonzini
2010-08-04 17:19                                                                 ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-04 17:19                                                                   ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-04 17:25                                                                   ` Alexander Graf
2010-08-04 17:25                                                                     ` Alexander Graf
2010-08-04 17:27                                                                   ` Anthony Liguori
2010-08-04 17:27                                                                     ` Anthony Liguori
2010-08-04 17:37                                                                     ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-04 17:37                                                                       ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-04 17:53                                                                       ` Anthony Liguori
2010-08-04 17:53                                                                         ` Anthony Liguori
2010-08-04 18:05                                                                         ` Alexander Graf
2010-08-04 18:05                                                                           ` Alexander Graf
2010-08-04  5:56                                               ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-04  5:56                                                 ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-04  1:17                                             ` Jamie Lokier
2010-08-04  1:17                                               ` Jamie Lokier
2010-08-04  8:21                                         ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-04  8:21                                           ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-04 14:51                                       ` David S. Ahern
2010-08-04 14:51                                         ` David S. Ahern
2010-08-04 14:57                                         ` Anthony Liguori
2010-08-04 14:57                                           ` Anthony Liguori
2010-08-04 15:25                                           ` Gleb Natapov
2010-08-04 15:25                                             ` Gleb Natapov
2010-08-04 15:31                                             ` Alexander Graf
2010-08-04 15:31                                               ` Alexander Graf
2010-08-04 15:48                                               ` Gleb Natapov
2010-08-04 15:48                                                 ` Gleb Natapov
2010-08-04 15:59                                                 ` Alexander Graf
2010-08-04 15:59                                                   ` Alexander Graf
2010-08-04 16:08                                                   ` Gleb Natapov
2010-08-04 16:08                                                     ` Gleb Natapov
2010-08-04 16:48                                                     ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-04 16:48                                                       ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-04 23:17                                             ` Kevin O'Connor
2010-08-04 23:17                                               ` Kevin O'Connor
2010-08-05  5:26                                               ` Gleb Natapov
2010-08-05  5:26                                                 ` Gleb Natapov
2010-08-03 16:56                           ` Anthony Liguori
2010-08-03 16:56                             ` Anthony Liguori
2010-08-03 16:48                       ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-03 17:00                         ` Richard W.M. Jones
2010-08-03 17:05                           ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-03 16:56                       ` Richard W.M. Jones
2010-08-03 17:08                         ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-03 16:39                 ` Anthony Liguori
2010-08-03 16:39                   ` Anthony Liguori
2010-08-03 16:43                   ` Richard W.M. Jones

Reply instructions:

You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:

* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
  and reply-to-all from there: mbox

  Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style

* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
  switches of git-send-email(1):

  git send-email \
    --in-reply-to=4C585F5B.5070502@codemonkey.ws \
    --to=anthony@codemonkey.ws \
    --cc=avi@redhat.com \
    --cc=gleb@redhat.com \
    --cc=kvm@vger.kernel.org \
    --cc=qemu-devel@nongnu.org \
    --cc=rjones@redhat.com \
    /path/to/YOUR_REPLY

  https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html

* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
  via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line before the message body.
This is an external index of several public inboxes,
see mirroring instructions on how to clone and mirror
all data and code used by this external index.