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From: Paolo Bonzini <pbonzini@redhat.com>
To: Anthony Liguori <anthony@codemonkey.ws>
Cc: Alexander Graf <agraf@suse.de>, Avi Kivity <avi@redhat.com>,
	"Richard W.M. Jones" <rjones@redhat.com>,
	qemu-devel@nongnu.org, Gleb Natapov <gleb@redhat.com>,
	kvm@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: [Qemu-devel] Anyone seeing huge slowdown launching qemu with Linux 2.6.35?
Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2010 19:01:21 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <4C599CE1.30501@redhat.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <4C599A27.9000602@codemonkey.ws>

On 08/04/2010 06:49 PM, Anthony Liguori wrote:
>>> Right, the only question is, to you inject your own bus or do you
>>> just reuse SCSI.  On the surface, it seems like reusing SCSI has a
>>> significant number of advantages.  For instance, without changing the
>>> guest's drivers, we can implement PV cdroms or PC tape drivers.

If you want multiple LUNs per virtio device SCSI is obviously a good 
choice, but you will need something more (like the config space Avi 
mentioned).  My position is that getting this "something more" right is 
considerably harder than virtio-blk.

Maybe it will be done some day, but I still think that not having 
virtio-scsi from day 1 was actually a good thing.  Even if we can learn 
from xenbus and all that.

>> What exactly would keep us from doing that with virtio-blk? I thought
>> that supports scsi commands already.
>
> I think the toughest change would be making it appear as a scsi device
> within the guest.  You could do that to virtio-blk but it would be a
> flag day as reasonable configured guests will break.
>
> Having virtio-blk device show up as /dev/vdX was a big mistake.  It's
> been nothing but a giant PITA.  There is an amazing amount of software
> that only looks at /dev/sd* and /dev/hd*.

That's another story and I totally agree here, but not reusing /dev/sd* 
is not intrinsic in the design of virtio-blk (and one thing that Windows 
gets right; everything is SCSI, period).

Paolo

WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Paolo Bonzini <pbonzini@redhat.com>
To: Anthony Liguori <anthony@codemonkey.ws>
Cc: Alexander Graf <agraf@suse.de>, Gleb Natapov <gleb@redhat.com>,
	kvm@vger.kernel.org, qemu-devel@nongnu.org,
	"Richard W.M. Jones" <rjones@redhat.com>,
	Avi Kivity <avi@redhat.com>
Subject: Re: [Qemu-devel] Anyone seeing huge slowdown launching qemu with Linux 2.6.35?
Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2010 19:01:21 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <4C599CE1.30501@redhat.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <4C599A27.9000602@codemonkey.ws>

On 08/04/2010 06:49 PM, Anthony Liguori wrote:
>>> Right, the only question is, to you inject your own bus or do you
>>> just reuse SCSI.  On the surface, it seems like reusing SCSI has a
>>> significant number of advantages.  For instance, without changing the
>>> guest's drivers, we can implement PV cdroms or PC tape drivers.

If you want multiple LUNs per virtio device SCSI is obviously a good 
choice, but you will need something more (like the config space Avi 
mentioned).  My position is that getting this "something more" right is 
considerably harder than virtio-blk.

Maybe it will be done some day, but I still think that not having 
virtio-scsi from day 1 was actually a good thing.  Even if we can learn 
from xenbus and all that.

>> What exactly would keep us from doing that with virtio-blk? I thought
>> that supports scsi commands already.
>
> I think the toughest change would be making it appear as a scsi device
> within the guest.  You could do that to virtio-blk but it would be a
> flag day as reasonable configured guests will break.
>
> Having virtio-blk device show up as /dev/vdX was a big mistake.  It's
> been nothing but a giant PITA.  There is an amazing amount of software
> that only looks at /dev/sd* and /dev/hd*.

That's another story and I totally agree here, but not reusing /dev/sd* 
is not intrinsic in the design of virtio-blk (and one thing that Windows 
gets right; everything is SCSI, period).

Paolo

  parent reply	other threads:[~2010-08-04 17:01 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 285+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2010-08-03 11:13 [Qemu-devel] Anyone seeing huge slowdown launching qemu with Linux 2.6.35? Richard W.M. Jones
2010-08-03 11:33 ` Gleb Natapov
2010-08-03 12:10   ` Richard W.M. Jones
2010-08-03 12:37     ` Gleb Natapov
2010-08-03 12:48       ` Richard W.M. Jones
2010-08-03 13:19         ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-03 13:19           ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-03 14:05           ` Richard W.M. Jones
2010-08-03 14:38             ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-03 14:53               ` Richard W.M. Jones
2010-08-03 16:10                 ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-03 16:28                   ` Richard W.M. Jones
2010-08-03 16:44                     ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-03 16:46                       ` Anthony Liguori
2010-08-03 16:46                         ` Anthony Liguori
2010-08-03 16:50                         ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-03 16:50                           ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-03 16:53                           ` Anthony Liguori
2010-08-03 16:53                             ` Anthony Liguori
2010-08-03 17:01                             ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-03 17:01                               ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-03 17:42                               ` Anthony Liguori
2010-08-03 17:42                                 ` Anthony Liguori
2010-08-03 17:58                                 ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-03 17:58                                   ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-03 18:11                                   ` Richard W.M. Jones
2010-08-03 18:11                                     ` Richard W.M. Jones
2010-08-03 18:26                                   ` Anthony Liguori
2010-08-03 18:26                                     ` Anthony Liguori
2010-08-03 18:43                                     ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-03 18:43                                       ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-03 18:47                                       ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-03 18:47                                         ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-03 18:55                                       ` Anthony Liguori
2010-08-03 18:55                                         ` Anthony Liguori
2010-08-03 19:00                                         ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-03 19:00                                           ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-03 19:05                                       ` Gleb Natapov
2010-08-03 19:05                                         ` Gleb Natapov
2010-08-03 19:09                                         ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-03 19:09                                           ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-03 19:15                                         ` Anthony Liguori
2010-08-03 19:15                                           ` Anthony Liguori
2010-08-03 19:24                                           ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-03 19:24                                             ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-03 19:38                                             ` Anthony Liguori
2010-08-03 19:38                                               ` Anthony Liguori
2010-08-03 19:41                                               ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-03 19:41                                                 ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-03 19:47                                                 ` Anthony Liguori
2010-08-03 19:47                                                   ` Anthony Liguori
2010-08-04  5:47                                                   ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-04  5:47                                                     ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-03 21:24                                                 ` Gerd Hoffmann
2010-08-03 21:24                                                   ` Gerd Hoffmann
2010-08-03 21:20                                             ` Gerd Hoffmann
2010-08-03 21:20                                               ` Gerd Hoffmann
2010-08-04  5:53                                               ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-04  5:53                                                 ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-04  7:56                                                 ` Gerd Hoffmann
2010-08-04  7:56                                                   ` Gerd Hoffmann
2010-08-04  8:17                                                   ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-04  8:17                                                     ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-04  8:43                                                     ` Gleb Natapov
2010-08-04  8:43                                                       ` Gleb Natapov
2010-08-04  9:22                                                     ` Gerd Hoffmann
2010-08-04  9:22                                                       ` Gerd Hoffmann
2010-08-04 13:04                                                     ` Anthony Liguori
2010-08-04 13:04                                                       ` Anthony Liguori
2010-08-04 13:07                                                       ` Gleb Natapov
2010-08-04 13:07                                                         ` Gleb Natapov
2010-08-04 13:15                                                         ` Anthony Liguori
2010-08-04 13:15                                                           ` Anthony Liguori
2010-08-04 13:24                                                           ` Richard W.M. Jones
2010-08-04 13:24                                                             ` Richard W.M. Jones
2010-08-04 13:26                                                             ` Gleb Natapov
2010-08-04 13:26                                                               ` Gleb Natapov
2010-08-04 14:22                                                               ` Anthony Liguori
2010-08-04 14:22                                                                 ` Anthony Liguori
2010-08-04 14:38                                                                 ` Gleb Natapov
2010-08-04 14:38                                                                   ` Gleb Natapov
2010-08-04 14:50                                                                   ` Anthony Liguori
2010-08-04 14:50                                                                     ` Anthony Liguori
2010-08-04 15:01                                                                     ` Gleb Natapov
2010-08-04 15:01                                                                       ` Gleb Natapov
2010-08-04 15:07                                                                       ` Anthony Liguori
2010-08-04 15:07                                                                         ` Anthony Liguori
2010-08-04 15:15                                                                         ` Gleb Natapov
2010-08-04 15:15                                                                           ` Gleb Natapov
2010-08-04 22:41                                                                       ` Kevin O'Connor
2010-08-04 22:41                                                                         ` Kevin O'Connor
2010-08-04 16:26                                                             ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-04 16:26                                                               ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-04 13:34                                                           ` Gleb Natapov
2010-08-04 13:34                                                             ` Gleb Natapov
2010-08-04 13:52                                                             ` Anthony Liguori
2010-08-04 13:52                                                               ` [Qemu-devel] " Anthony Liguori
2010-08-04 14:00                                                               ` Gleb Natapov
2010-08-04 14:00                                                                 ` Gleb Natapov
2010-08-04 14:14                                                                 ` Anthony Liguori
2010-08-04 14:14                                                                   ` Anthony Liguori
2010-08-04 14:36                                                                   ` Gleb Natapov
2010-08-04 14:36                                                                     ` Gleb Natapov
2010-08-04 14:22                                                                 ` Paolo Bonzini
2010-08-04 14:22                                                                   ` Paolo Bonzini
2010-08-04 14:39                                                                   ` Anthony Liguori
2010-08-04 14:39                                                                     ` Anthony Liguori
2010-08-04 16:33                                                                     ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-04 16:33                                                                       ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-04 16:30                                                               ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-04 16:30                                                                 ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-04 16:36                                                                 ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-04 16:36                                                                   ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-04 16:44                                                                   ` Anthony Liguori
2010-08-04 16:44                                                                     ` Anthony Liguori
2010-08-04 16:52                                                                     ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-04 16:52                                                                       ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-04 17:37                                                                     ` Gleb Natapov
2010-08-04 17:37                                                                       ` Gleb Natapov
2010-08-05  7:28                                                                     ` Gerd Hoffmann
2010-08-05  7:28                                                                       ` Gerd Hoffmann
2010-08-05  7:34                                                                       ` Gleb Natapov
2010-08-05  7:34                                                                         ` Gleb Natapov
2010-08-05  7:56                                                                         ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-05  7:56                                                                           ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-05  7:59                                                                           ` Gleb Natapov
2010-08-05  7:59                                                                             ` Gleb Natapov
2010-08-05  8:45                                                                             ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-05  8:45                                                                               ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-05  8:48                                                                               ` Gleb Natapov
2010-08-05  8:48                                                                                 ` Gleb Natapov
2010-08-05 13:43                                                                       ` Anthony Liguori
2010-08-05 13:43                                                                         ` Anthony Liguori
2010-08-04 16:45                                                                   ` Alexander Graf
2010-08-04 16:45                                                                     ` Alexander Graf
2010-08-04 16:54                                                                     ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-04 16:54                                                                       ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-04 17:01                                                                       ` Alexander Graf
2010-08-04 17:01                                                                         ` Alexander Graf
2010-08-04 17:14                                                                         ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-04 17:14                                                                           ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-04 17:27                                                                           ` Alexander Graf
2010-08-04 17:27                                                                             ` Alexander Graf
2010-08-04 17:34                                                                             ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-04 17:34                                                                               ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-04 20:06                                                                               ` David S. Ahern
2010-08-04 20:06                                                                                 ` David S. Ahern
2010-08-04 20:16                                                                                 ` Richard W.M. Jones
2010-08-04 20:16                                                                                   ` Richard W.M. Jones
2010-08-05  2:38                                                                                 ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-05  2:38                                                                                   ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-04 17:26                                                                     ` Anthony Liguori
2010-08-04 17:26                                                                       ` Anthony Liguori
2010-08-04 17:31                                                                       ` Alexander Graf
2010-08-04 17:31                                                                         ` Alexander Graf
2010-08-04 17:35                                                                         ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-04 17:35                                                                           ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-04 17:36                                                                         ` Anthony Liguori
2010-08-04 17:36                                                                           ` Anthony Liguori
2010-08-04 17:36                                                                           ` Alexander Graf
2010-08-04 17:36                                                                             ` Alexander Graf
2010-08-04 17:46                                                                   ` Richard W.M. Jones
2010-08-04 17:46                                                                     ` Richard W.M. Jones
2010-08-04 17:50                                                                     ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-04 17:50                                                                       ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-04 18:13                                                                     ` Alexander Graf
2010-08-04 18:13                                                                       ` [Qemu-devel] " Alexander Graf
2010-08-04 18:16                                                                       ` Anthony Liguori
2010-08-04 18:16                                                                         ` Anthony Liguori
2010-08-04 18:18                                                                         ` Alexander Graf
2010-08-04 18:18                                                                           ` Alexander Graf
2010-08-04 18:19                                                                         ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-04 18:19                                                                           ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-04 18:18                                                                       ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-04 18:18                                                                         ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-04 16:42                                                                 ` Anthony Liguori
2010-08-04 16:42                                                                   ` Anthony Liguori
2010-08-04 13:22                                                         ` Richard W.M. Jones
2010-08-04 13:22                                                           ` Richard W.M. Jones
2010-08-04 13:29                                                           ` Gleb Natapov
2010-08-04 13:29                                                             ` Gleb Natapov
2010-08-04 16:25                                                       ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-04 16:25                                                         ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-03 22:06                                             ` Richard W.M. Jones
2010-08-03 22:06                                               ` Richard W.M. Jones
2010-08-04  5:54                                               ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-04  5:54                                                 ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-04  9:24                                                 ` Richard W.M. Jones
2010-08-04  9:24                                                   ` Richard W.M. Jones
2010-08-04  9:27                                                   ` Gleb Natapov
2010-08-04  9:27                                                     ` Gleb Natapov
2010-08-04  9:52                                                   ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-04  9:52                                                     ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-04 11:33                                                     ` Richard W.M. Jones
2010-08-04 11:33                                                       ` Richard W.M. Jones
2010-08-04 11:36                                                       ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-04 11:36                                                         ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-04 12:07                                                       ` Gleb Natapov
2010-08-04 12:07                                                         ` Gleb Natapov
2010-08-04 12:59                                                   ` Anthony Liguori
2010-08-04 12:59                                                     ` Anthony Liguori
2010-08-03 19:26                                           ` Gleb Natapov
2010-08-03 19:26                                             ` Gleb Natapov
2010-08-03 19:13                                       ` Richard W.M. Jones
2010-08-03 19:13                                         ` Richard W.M. Jones
2010-08-03 19:17                                         ` Gleb Natapov
2010-08-03 19:17                                           ` Gleb Natapov
2010-08-03 19:19                                         ` Anthony Liguori
2010-08-03 19:19                                           ` Anthony Liguori
2010-08-03 19:22                                         ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-03 19:22                                           ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-03 20:00                                           ` Richard W.M. Jones
2010-08-03 20:00                                             ` Richard W.M. Jones
2010-08-03 20:49                                             ` Anthony Liguori
2010-08-03 20:49                                               ` Anthony Liguori
2010-08-03 21:13                                               ` Paolo Bonzini
2010-08-03 21:13                                                 ` Paolo Bonzini
2010-08-03 21:34                                                 ` Anthony Liguori
2010-08-03 21:34                                                   ` Anthony Liguori
2010-08-04  7:57                                                   ` Paolo Bonzini
2010-08-04  7:57                                                     ` Paolo Bonzini
2010-08-04  8:19                                                     ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-04  8:19                                                       ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-04 12:53                                                     ` Anthony Liguori
2010-08-04 12:53                                                       ` Anthony Liguori
2010-08-04 16:44                                                       ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-04 16:44                                                         ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-04 16:46                                                         ` Anthony Liguori
2010-08-04 16:46                                                           ` Anthony Liguori
2010-08-04 16:48                                                           ` Alexander Graf
2010-08-04 16:48                                                             ` Alexander Graf
2010-08-04 16:49                                                             ` Anthony Liguori
2010-08-04 16:49                                                               ` Anthony Liguori
2010-08-04 16:51                                                               ` Alexander Graf
2010-08-04 16:51                                                                 ` Alexander Graf
2010-08-04 17:01                                                               ` Paolo Bonzini [this message]
2010-08-04 17:01                                                                 ` Paolo Bonzini
2010-08-04 17:19                                                                 ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-04 17:19                                                                   ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-04 17:25                                                                   ` Alexander Graf
2010-08-04 17:25                                                                     ` Alexander Graf
2010-08-04 17:27                                                                   ` Anthony Liguori
2010-08-04 17:27                                                                     ` Anthony Liguori
2010-08-04 17:37                                                                     ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-04 17:37                                                                       ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-04 17:53                                                                       ` Anthony Liguori
2010-08-04 17:53                                                                         ` Anthony Liguori
2010-08-04 18:05                                                                         ` Alexander Graf
2010-08-04 18:05                                                                           ` Alexander Graf
2010-08-04  5:56                                               ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-04  5:56                                                 ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-04  1:17                                             ` Jamie Lokier
2010-08-04  1:17                                               ` Jamie Lokier
2010-08-04  8:21                                         ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-04  8:21                                           ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-04 14:51                                       ` David S. Ahern
2010-08-04 14:51                                         ` David S. Ahern
2010-08-04 14:57                                         ` Anthony Liguori
2010-08-04 14:57                                           ` Anthony Liguori
2010-08-04 15:25                                           ` Gleb Natapov
2010-08-04 15:25                                             ` Gleb Natapov
2010-08-04 15:31                                             ` Alexander Graf
2010-08-04 15:31                                               ` Alexander Graf
2010-08-04 15:48                                               ` Gleb Natapov
2010-08-04 15:48                                                 ` Gleb Natapov
2010-08-04 15:59                                                 ` Alexander Graf
2010-08-04 15:59                                                   ` Alexander Graf
2010-08-04 16:08                                                   ` Gleb Natapov
2010-08-04 16:08                                                     ` Gleb Natapov
2010-08-04 16:48                                                     ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-04 16:48                                                       ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-04 23:17                                             ` Kevin O'Connor
2010-08-04 23:17                                               ` Kevin O'Connor
2010-08-05  5:26                                               ` Gleb Natapov
2010-08-05  5:26                                                 ` Gleb Natapov
2010-08-03 16:56                           ` Anthony Liguori
2010-08-03 16:56                             ` Anthony Liguori
2010-08-03 16:48                       ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-03 17:00                         ` Richard W.M. Jones
2010-08-03 17:05                           ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-03 16:56                       ` Richard W.M. Jones
2010-08-03 17:08                         ` Avi Kivity
2010-08-03 16:39                 ` Anthony Liguori
2010-08-03 16:39                   ` Anthony Liguori
2010-08-03 16:43                   ` Richard W.M. Jones

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