TSEM feedback.

TSEM feedback.

[Dr. Greg]

Good morning Paul, I hope this note finds your week starting well.

We submitted the patches for the V2 release of TSEM three weeks ago.

We received some feedback from Randy Dunlap on some documentations
issues that we went on to address.

Haven't heard any reflections from you.  Was just wondering if you
were swamped or had possibly missed the submission?  We didn't include
you as a copy on the notion that you didn't need two sets of patches
landing in your inbox.

You can find the series with the following lore link:

https://lore.kernel.org/linux-security-module/20230710102319.19716-1-greg@enjellic.com/T/#t

Will look forward to any reflections you might have.

Have a good day.

As always,
Dr. Greg

The Quixote Project - Flailing at the Travails of Cybersecurity

Re: TSEM feedback.

[Bagas Sanjaya]

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On Mon, Jul 31, 2023 at 05:38:22AM -0500, Dr. Greg wrote:
> Good morning Paul, I hope this note finds your week starting well.
> 
> We submitted the patches for the V2 release of TSEM three weeks ago.
> 
> We received some feedback from Randy Dunlap on some documentations
> issues that we went on to address.
> 
> Haven't heard any reflections from you.  Was just wondering if you
> were swamped or had possibly missed the submission?  We didn't include
> you as a copy on the notion that you didn't need two sets of patches
> landing in your inbox.
> 
> You can find the series with the following lore link:
> 
> https://lore.kernel.org/linux-security-module/20230710102319.19716-1-greg@enjellic.com/T/#t
> 
> Will look forward to any reflections you might have.

OK, please reroll with all reviews addressed.

As for the documentation, it seems that you missed Cc'ing
linux-doc@vger.kernel.org list, hence I didn't see your series. In any case,
run ``scripts/get_maintainer.pl`` to find maintainers, potential reviewers,
and lists that should have received your patch (series).

Last but not least, it'd been great if you can also link to public Git
repo containing your series (you already have the repo locally when
developing the series, right?), so I can simply ``git pull`` when about
to review yours.

See you in v2!

-- 
An old man doll... just what I always wanted! - Clara

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Re: TSEM feedback.

[Paul Moore]

On Mon, Jul 31, 2023 at 6:39 AM Dr. Greg <greg@enjellic.com> wrote:
>
> Good morning Paul, I hope this note finds your week starting well.
>
> We submitted the patches for the V2 release of TSEM three weeks ago.
>
> We received some feedback from Randy Dunlap on some documentations
> issues that we went on to address.
>
> Haven't heard any reflections from you.  Was just wondering if you
> were swamped or had possibly missed the submission?  We didn't include
> you as a copy on the notion that you didn't need two sets of patches
> landing in your inbox.

If your mail hits the mail archive on lore.kernel.org, it is almost a
full guarantee that it has hit my inbox and/or the patchwork instance
I use to ensure nothing is missed.

As one would expect, it takes a good deal of time to review a patch
submission as large as TSEM, and the rather ornate language used in
the documentation only slows the process.  Rest assured it is firmly
on my todo list, but please understand it will take some time to
properly review.  In the meantime I would encourage others to
review/play/etc. with TSEM; nothing builds maintainer comfort quite
like seeing reviews from other trusted members of the community.

-- 
paul-moore.com

Re: TSEM feedback.

[Dr. Greg]

On Mon, Jul 31, 2023 at 10:57:08AM -0400, Paul Moore wrote:

Good morning, I hope the day is starting well.

> On Mon, Jul 31, 2023 at 6:39???AM Dr. Greg <greg@enjellic.com> wrote:
> >
> > Good morning Paul, I hope this note finds your week starting well.
> >
> > We submitted the patches for the V2 release of TSEM three weeks ago.
> >
> > We received some feedback from Randy Dunlap on some documentations
> > issues that we went on to address.
> >
> > Haven't heard any reflections from you.  Was just wondering if you
> > were swamped or had possibly missed the submission?  We didn't include
> > you as a copy on the notion that you didn't need two sets of patches
> > landing in your inbox.

> If your mail hits the mail archive on lore.kernel.org, it is almost
> a full guarantee that it has hit my inbox and/or the patchwork
> instance I use to ensure nothing is missed.

So noted.

> As one would expect, it takes a good deal of time to review a patch
> submission as large as TSEM, and the rather ornate language used in
> the documentation only slows the process.

For whatever it is worth, as a group, we invested a considerable
amount of time, over a period of now 8+ years, in refining the
terminology and nomenclature embodied in that document.

I guess the only defense at hand is a variant on the alleged response
by Austrian Emperor Joseph II to Mozart's "Die Entfuhrung aus dem
Serail":

"It contains as many words, with appropriate ornateness, as was deemed
necessary."

I believe the case can be made that Quixote/TSEM approaches the
challenge of security from a significantly different conceptual basis
than a significant body of current art in the field.

Legend has it that Dyson and Feynman spent two years talking before
they were able to conclude that they were understanding one another,
despite the fact they were working toward a common goal.

> Rest assured it is firmly on my todo list, but please understand it
> will take some time to properly review.  In the meantime I would
> encourage others to review/play/etc. with TSEM; nothing builds
> maintainer comfort quite like seeing reviews from other trusted
> members of the community.

We respect any time you can afford to this.

With respect to the notion of getting others to play with a new
technology concept.

Security, from an innovation perspective, is an interesting challenge,
probably a candidate for a book with my long time trusted consigliere.
Who, at the risk of excessive ornateness, would delve deeply into the
notion of how structural inherencies act to preclude innovation.

> paul-moore.com

Thanks for the update, best wishes for a productive remainder of the
week.

As always,
Dr. Greg

The Quixote Project - Flailing at the Travails of Cybersecurity

Re: TSEM feedback.

[Serge E. Hallyn]

On Tue, Aug 01, 2023 at 05:54:21AM -0500, Dr. Greg wrote:
> On Mon, Jul 31, 2023 at 10:57:08AM -0400, Paul Moore wrote:
> 
> Good morning, I hope the day is starting well.
> 
> > On Mon, Jul 31, 2023 at 6:39???AM Dr. Greg <greg@enjellic.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > Good morning Paul, I hope this note finds your week starting well.
> > >
> > > We submitted the patches for the V2 release of TSEM three weeks ago.
> > >
> > > We received some feedback from Randy Dunlap on some documentations
> > > issues that we went on to address.
> > >
> > > Haven't heard any reflections from you.  Was just wondering if you
> > > were swamped or had possibly missed the submission?  We didn't include
> > > you as a copy on the notion that you didn't need two sets of patches
> > > landing in your inbox.
> 
> > If your mail hits the mail archive on lore.kernel.org, it is almost
> > a full guarantee that it has hit my inbox and/or the patchwork
> > instance I use to ensure nothing is missed.
> 
> So noted.
> 
> > As one would expect, it takes a good deal of time to review a patch
> > submission as large as TSEM, and the rather ornate language used in
> > the documentation only slows the process.
> 
> For whatever it is worth, as a group, we invested a considerable
> amount of time, over a period of now 8+ years, in refining the
> terminology and nomenclature embodied in that document.
> 
> I guess the only defense at hand is a variant on the alleged response
> by Austrian Emperor Joseph II to Mozart's "Die Entfuhrung aus dem
> Serail":
> 
> "It contains as many words, with appropriate ornateness, as was deemed
> necessary."

I cannot let such a golden opportunity pass to use
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gA-sEfXOaEQ

Re: TSEM feedback.

[Paul Moore]

On Tue, Aug 1, 2023 at 8:55 AM Serge E. Hallyn <serge@hallyn.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Aug 01, 2023 at 05:54:21AM -0500, Dr. Greg wrote:
> > On Mon, Jul 31, 2023 at 10:57:08AM -0400, Paul Moore wrote:
> >
> > Good morning, I hope the day is starting well.
> >
> > > On Mon, Jul 31, 2023 at 6:39???AM Dr. Greg <greg@enjellic.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Good morning Paul, I hope this note finds your week starting well.
> > > >
> > > > We submitted the patches for the V2 release of TSEM three weeks ago.
> > > >
> > > > We received some feedback from Randy Dunlap on some documentations
> > > > issues that we went on to address.
> > > >
> > > > Haven't heard any reflections from you.  Was just wondering if you
> > > > were swamped or had possibly missed the submission?  We didn't include
> > > > you as a copy on the notion that you didn't need two sets of patches
> > > > landing in your inbox.
> >
> > > If your mail hits the mail archive on lore.kernel.org, it is almost
> > > a full guarantee that it has hit my inbox and/or the patchwork
> > > instance I use to ensure nothing is missed.
> >
> > So noted.
> >
> > > As one would expect, it takes a good deal of time to review a patch
> > > submission as large as TSEM, and the rather ornate language used in
> > > the documentation only slows the process.
> >
> > For whatever it is worth, as a group, we invested a considerable
> > amount of time, over a period of now 8+ years, in refining the
> > terminology and nomenclature embodied in that document.
> >
> > I guess the only defense at hand is a variant on the alleged response
> > by Austrian Emperor Joseph II to Mozart's "Die Entfuhrung aus dem
> > Serail":
> >
> > "It contains as many words, with appropriate ornateness, as was deemed
> > necessary."
>
> I cannot let such a golden opportunity pass to use
>   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gA-sEfXOaEQ

 ;)

While I don't doubt that some would view the choices made in
describing TSEM as necessary, it is important to remember that those
judgements, as well as my own, are subjective.  I appreciate the time
and effort that has gone into the TSEM documentation (and welcome the
care behind it!), but I very much agree with the sentiments in the
video snippet Serge linked.

-- 
paul-moore.com