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From: Alejandro Colomar <alx@kernel.org>
To: Keith Bostic <keith@bostic.com>
Cc: Sam James <sam@gentoo.org>,
	 "G. Branden Robinson" <g.branden.robinson@gmail.com>,
	Joseph Myers <josmyers@redhat.com>,
	linux-man@vger.kernel.org,  Mark Harris <mark.hsj@gmail.com>,
	Nevin Liber <nevin@cplusplusguy.com>,
	 JeanHeyd Meneide <phdofthehouse@gmail.com>,
	Christopher Bazley <chris.bazley.wg14@gmail.com>,
	 "Serge E. Hallyn" <serge@hallyn.com>,
	Iker Pedrosa <ipedrosa@redhat.com>,
	 "Evgeny Grin (Karlson2k)" <k2k@drgrin.dev>,
	Kees Cook <keescook@chromium.org>,
	bug-gnulib@gnu.org,  libc-alpha@sourceware.org,
	Douglas McIlroy <douglas.mcilroy@dartmouth.edu>
Subject: Re: on the irresponsibility of pursuing C language reform
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2026 01:24:28 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <am5_uA4MSujYCS9X@devuan> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <am51v4KmUmdzM-OT@devuan>

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Hi Keith,

> Date: 2026-08-02 00:44:46+0200
> From: Alejandro Colomar <alx@kernel.org>
>
[...]
> > Advocating for better usage in the documentation is a different thing, and
> > a good thing. The man pages can even go pretty hard, that’s their job:
> > “Notice the include file is string.h. That’s an historic accident
> > maintained for compatibility reasons; don’t let that fool you, this
> > function doesn’t operate on strings.”
> 
[...]
> I should probably expand the NOTES a little bit, to be more clear about
> why we ignore the standard in the SYNOPSIS.

I've put that text in a centralized place, in the memory.h(3head) manual
page:

	$ MANWIDTH=64 diffman-git HEAD
	--- HEAD^:man/man3head/memory.h.3
	+++ HEAD:man/man3head/memory.h.3
	@@ -10,6 +10,11 @@ SYNOPSIS
	      #include <memory.h>
	 
	 DESCRIPTION
	+     These functions are also provided in <string.h>, as speci‐
	+     fied by ISO C.  This is a historic accident maintained for
	+     compatibility reasons.  Don’t let that fool you; these
	+     functions don’t necessarily operate on strings.
	+
	    Write
	      bzero(3)
	      memset(3)
	@@ -38,6 +43,19 @@ DESCRIPTION
	      memrchr(3)
	      memmem(3)
	 
	+STANDARDS
	+     BSD.
	+
	+HISTORY
	+     The <memory.h> header file is the original one which was
	+     added in System V (1983), and was later adopted by 4.3BSD
	+     (1986).  It contained the original mem* functions.
	+
	+     C89 didn’t standardize this header file, and instead
	+     crammed all these functions in <string.h>, resulting in
	+     confusing programmers about the real purpose of these
	+     functions.
	+
	 SEE ALSO
	      string(3), string_copying(7)
	 

Cheers,
Alex

-- 
<https://www.alejandro-colomar.es>

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  reply	other threads:[~2026-08-01 23:24 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 154+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2026-07-31 21:18 [PATCH 0/2] alx-0097r1 - <memory.h>, the legitimate header for memcpy(3) et al Alejandro Colomar
2026-07-31 21:18 ` [PATCH 1/2] man/man3/{mem,strn}*(): SYNOPSIS, STANDARDS: Document these as provided by <memory.h> Alejandro Colomar
2026-07-31 21:23   ` Joseph Myers
2026-07-31 21:28     ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-07-31 21:54       ` Sam James
2026-07-31 22:18         ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-08-01  0:12           ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-08-01 14:43           ` Sam James
2026-07-31 21:51     ` on the irresponsibility of pursuing C language reform (was: [PATCH 1/2] man/man3/{mem,strn}*(): SYNOPSIS, STANDARDS: Document these as provided by <memory.h>) G. Branden Robinson
2026-07-31 21:59       ` on the irresponsibility of pursuing C language reform Sam James
2026-07-31 22:24         ` G. Branden Robinson
2026-07-31 23:19           ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-08-01 14:52           ` Sam James
2026-08-01 12:01         ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-08-01 12:04           ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-08-01 14:38           ` Sam James
2026-08-01 15:15             ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-08-01 16:10               ` Sam James
2026-08-01 17:09                 ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-08-01 21:34                   ` G. Branden Robinson
2026-08-01 22:22                     ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-08-01 22:26                       ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-08-03 13:42                       ` Joseph Myers
2026-08-03 14:22                         ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-08-03 14:38                         ` on glibc forking/reclaiming its man pages (was: on the irresponsibility of pursuing C language reform) G. Branden Robinson
2026-08-03 14:44                           ` Joseph Myers
2026-08-03 15:18                             ` G. Branden Robinson
     [not found]                   ` <CAETFuj2OwoyK9J85r2f0RoXbHbXKA4gQJ=JZ-7=QoqGcMwk0+Q@mail.gmail.com>
2026-08-01 22:44                     ` on the irresponsibility of pursuing C language reform Alejandro Colomar
2026-08-01 23:24                       ` Alejandro Colomar [this message]
2026-08-01 23:53                         ` proposed revision to memory.h(3head) (was: on the irresponsibility of pursuing C language reform) G. Branden Robinson
2026-08-02  0:27                           ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-08-02  1:03                             ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-08-03  0:47                             ` proposed revision to memory.h(3head) Alejandro Colomar
2026-08-03 17:58                               ` Mark Harris
2026-08-03 18:47                                 ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-08-03 20:14                                   ` Mark Harris
2026-08-03 23:36                                     ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-08-04  3:25                                       ` Mark Harris
2026-08-03 14:10                             ` proposed revision to memory.h(3head) (was: on the irresponsibility of pursuing C language reform) Joseph Myers
2026-08-03 14:31                               ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-08-02 12:52                         ` on the irresponsibility of pursuing C language reform Steve Summit
2026-08-02 13:17                           ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-08-02 13:45                             ` Steve Summit
2026-08-02 14:11                               ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-08-02 19:28                                 ` Paul Eggert
2026-08-02 20:31                                   ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-08-03  3:28                                     ` Paul Eggert
2026-08-03 11:39                                       ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-08-03 13:23               ` Joseph Myers
2026-08-01 20:18             ` G. Branden Robinson
2026-08-01 20:42               ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-08-01 20:45                 ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-08-01 20:52                 ` G. Branden Robinson
2026-08-01 21:12                   ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-07-31 22:10       ` on the irresponsibility of pursuing C language reform (was: [PATCH 1/2] man/man3/{mem,strn}*(): SYNOPSIS, STANDARDS: Document these as provided by <memory.h>) Joseph Myers
2026-07-31 22:21         ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-07-31 22:28           ` [PATCH 1/2] man/man3/{mem,strn}*(): SYNOPSIS, STANDARDS: Document these as provided by <memory.h> G. Branden Robinson
2026-07-31 22:42           ` on the irresponsibility of pursuing C language reform (was: [PATCH 1/2] man/man3/{mem,strn}*(): SYNOPSIS, STANDARDS: Document these as provided by <memory.h>) Joseph Myers
2026-07-31 22:52             ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-07-31 23:11               ` Joseph Myers
2026-07-31 23:32                 ` G. Branden Robinson
2026-08-01 12:39                   ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-08-01 14:26                   ` Christopher Bazley
2026-08-01 15:29                     ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-07-31 23:45                 ` on the irresponsibility of pursuing C language reform (was: " Alejandro Colomar
2026-08-01 12:39                   ` Douglas McIlroy
2026-08-01 19:54                     ` G. Branden Robinson
2026-08-01 20:35                       ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-07-31 23:08             ` [PATCH 1/2] man/man3/{mem,strn}*(): SYNOPSIS, STANDARDS: Document these as provided by <memory.h> G. Branden Robinson
2026-07-31 23:28               ` Joseph Myers
2026-07-31 23:57                 ` G. Branden Robinson
2026-08-01  0:06                   ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-07-31 22:05     ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-07-31 22:16       ` Joseph Myers
2026-07-31 22:33         ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-07-31 23:48     ` [PATCH 1/2] man/man3/{mem, strn}*(): " Collin Funk
2026-07-31 23:52       ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-08-01  0:01         ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-08-04  2:35         ` Thorsten Glaser
2026-07-31 21:19 ` [PATCH 2/2] man/man*/{string.3,memory.h.3head}: Move functions to a new page memory.h(3head) Alejandro Colomar
2026-07-31 21:20 ` [PATCH 0/2] alx-0097r1 - <memory.h>, the legitimate header for memcpy(3) et al Alejandro Colomar
2026-08-01  0:25 ` [PATCH v2] man/man3/mem*(): SYNOPSIS: Document non-standard mem*() functions as provided by <memory.h> Alejandro Colomar
2026-08-01 22:22   ` Bruno Haible
2026-08-01 22:38     ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-08-01 22:55       ` Bruno Haible
2026-08-01 23:10         ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-08-01 23:26           ` Collin Funk
2026-08-01 23:34             ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-08-01 23:29           ` Paul Eggert
2026-08-01 23:36             ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-08-02  0:08               ` the Linux man-pages as an educational tool (was: [PATCH v2] man/man3/mem*(): SYNOPSIS: Document non-standard mem*() functions as provided by <memory.h>) G. Branden Robinson
2026-08-02  0:45                 ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-08-02  1:04                   ` the Linux man-pages as an educational tool Collin Funk
2026-08-02  1:15                     ` G. Branden Robinson
2026-08-02  1:15                     ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-08-02  1:49                       ` Collin Funk
2026-08-02 11:29                         ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-08-02 11:47                           ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-08-02 12:04                       ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-08-02 21:23                       ` Maciej W. Rozycki
2026-08-02 21:34                         ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-08-02 23:08                           ` Arsen Arsenović
2026-08-02 23:10                             ` G. Branden Robinson
2026-08-02 23:27                               ` Collin Funk
2026-08-02 23:37                                 ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-08-02 23:41                                   ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-08-02 23:42                                     ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-08-03  1:12                                       ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-08-03  2:09                                       ` G. Branden Robinson
2026-08-03 12:21                                         ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-08-03 14:05                                           ` Sam James
2026-08-03 14:40                                             ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-08-03 15:34                                               ` G. Branden Robinson
2026-08-03 16:11                                                 ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-08-03 16:15                                               ` Sam James
2026-08-03 16:43                                                 ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-08-03 10:28                                   ` the Linux man-pages as an educational tool... and a bit about C Αγαθοκλής Χατζημανίκας
2026-08-03 14:03                                   ` the Linux man-pages as an educational tool Sam James
2026-08-03 14:28                                     ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-08-04  2:39                                     ` Collin Funk
2026-08-04 12:12                                       ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-08-04 15:49                                         ` Arsen Arsenović
2026-08-04 17:16                                           ` The goal of the Linux man-pages project Alejandro Colomar
2026-08-04 20:04                                             ` DJ Delorie
2026-08-04 23:07                                               ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-08-04 20:14                                             ` [GNULIB] " Αγαθοκλής Χατζημανίκας
2026-08-04 21:24                                               ` Αγαθοκλής Χατζημανίκας
2026-08-05  9:31                                             ` Arsen Arsenović
2026-08-05 14:15                                               ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-08-05 14:50                                                 ` DJ Delorie
2026-08-05 15:18                                                   ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-08-03 16:09                                   ` on project management (was: the Linux man-pages as an educational tool) G. Branden Robinson
2026-08-03 19:46                                     ` enh
2026-08-03 21:09                                       ` on project management Arsen Arsenović
2026-08-10 13:06                                         ` Ingo Schwarze
2026-08-11 11:43                                           ` Valery Ushakov
2026-08-11 12:49                                             ` Robert Elz
2026-08-11 16:42                                               ` Paul Eggert
2026-08-02 23:30                               ` the Linux man-pages as an educational tool Alejandro Colomar
2026-08-03 11:00                               ` Arsen Arsenović
2026-08-14 15:30                               ` Maciej W. Rozycki
2026-08-14 21:57                                 ` Bernd Petrovitsch
2026-08-15 13:03                                   ` Maciej W. Rozycki
2026-08-15 14:35                                     ` Douglas McIlroy
2026-08-15 22:11                                     ` Bernd Petrovitsch
2026-08-03 16:07                           ` Jeffrey Walton
2026-08-03 16:17                             ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-08-03 19:31                           ` Joseph Myers
2026-08-03 19:47                             ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-08-03 13:51                         ` When and why realloc(,0) was broken in glibc in 1999 Alejandro Colomar
2026-08-03 12:35                       ` the Linux man-pages as an educational tool Bruno Haible
2026-08-03 13:07                         ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-08-03 19:45                           ` Joseph Myers
2026-08-03 19:50                             ` Alejandro Colomar

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