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From: Alejandro Colomar <alx@kernel.org>
To: Collin Funk <collin.funk1@gmail.com>
Cc: "G. Branden Robinson" <g.branden.robinson@gmail.com>,
	 Paul Eggert <eggert@cs.ucla.edu>,
	linux-man@vger.kernel.org, bug-gnulib@gnu.org,
	 libc-alpha@sourceware.org
Subject: Re: the Linux man-pages as an educational tool
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2026 14:04:16 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <am8wtqKpytXE6iBr@devuan> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <am6X32HkGdm2xTd7@devuan>

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> Date: 2026-08-02 03:15:43+0200
> From: Alejandro Colomar <alx@kernel.org>
>
> > Date: 2026-08-01 18:04:05-0700
> > From: Collin Funk <collin.funk1@gmail.com>
> >
> > Alejandro Colomar <alx@kernel.org> writes:
> > 
[...]
> > 
> > I don't think anyone is arguing whether or not man-pages is an
> > educational tool. The argument is whether it should educate based on
> > current standards, or the maintainers preferences.
> 
> I'm not innovating if I say that the standards are mostly ignored.
> Actually, I am more in the side of following the standards as much as
> possible and appropriate (but not more) on average.
> 
> This is just a case where educating on the current standards is done by
> 1) documenting at the bottom of the manual what the standard says, and
> 2) recommending to ignore it because it's bad.  When the standards are
> bad, this is appropriate course.
> 
> The manual pages should certainly educate about reality, and standards
> are only secondary to that.
> 
> This reminds me of realloc(3).  That's a perfect example of educating
> based on current (and withdrawn) standards.  And the education might
> very well consist of saying "don't listen to the standards in this case;
> they're bad for you".

And let me expand on this.  realloc(p,0) is not just example and
precedent of how documentation *must* go against the standards when
appropriate.  It's also an example of how the manual pages must and will
go against the partial specification of glibc's official manual.

We would do programmers a disservice if the manual pages limited to
mirror what glibc's manual says.

Where the glibc documentation doesn't document its own perils, we must
deviate from that, and document them clearly.


Cheers,
Alex

-- 
<https://www.alejandro-colomar.es>

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  parent reply	other threads:[~2026-08-02 12:04 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 85+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2026-07-31 21:18 [PATCH 0/2] alx-0097r1 - <memory.h>, the legitimate header for memcpy(3) et al Alejandro Colomar
2026-07-31 21:18 ` [PATCH 1/2] man/man3/{mem,strn}*(): SYNOPSIS, STANDARDS: Document these as provided by <memory.h> Alejandro Colomar
2026-07-31 21:23   ` Joseph Myers
2026-07-31 21:28     ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-07-31 21:54       ` Sam James
2026-07-31 22:18         ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-08-01  0:12           ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-08-01 14:43           ` Sam James
2026-07-31 21:51     ` on the irresponsibility of pursuing C language reform (was: [PATCH 1/2] man/man3/{mem,strn}*(): SYNOPSIS, STANDARDS: Document these as provided by <memory.h>) G. Branden Robinson
2026-07-31 21:59       ` on the irresponsibility of pursuing C language reform Sam James
2026-07-31 22:24         ` G. Branden Robinson
2026-07-31 23:19           ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-08-01 14:52           ` Sam James
2026-08-01 12:01         ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-08-01 12:04           ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-08-01 14:38           ` Sam James
2026-08-01 15:15             ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-08-01 16:10               ` Sam James
2026-08-01 17:09                 ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-08-01 21:34                   ` G. Branden Robinson
2026-08-01 22:22                     ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-08-01 22:26                       ` Alejandro Colomar
     [not found]                   ` <CAETFuj2OwoyK9J85r2f0RoXbHbXKA4gQJ=JZ-7=QoqGcMwk0+Q@mail.gmail.com>
2026-08-01 22:44                     ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-08-01 23:24                       ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-08-01 23:53                         ` proposed revision to memory.h(3head) (was: on the irresponsibility of pursuing C language reform) G. Branden Robinson
2026-08-02  0:27                           ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-08-02  1:03                             ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-08-02 12:52                         ` on the irresponsibility of pursuing C language reform Steve Summit
2026-08-02 13:17                           ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-08-02 13:45                             ` Steve Summit
2026-08-02 14:11                               ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-08-02 19:28                                 ` Paul Eggert
2026-08-02 20:31                                   ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-08-01 20:18             ` G. Branden Robinson
2026-08-01 20:42               ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-08-01 20:45                 ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-08-01 20:52                 ` G. Branden Robinson
2026-08-01 21:12                   ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-07-31 22:10       ` on the irresponsibility of pursuing C language reform (was: [PATCH 1/2] man/man3/{mem,strn}*(): SYNOPSIS, STANDARDS: Document these as provided by <memory.h>) Joseph Myers
2026-07-31 22:21         ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-07-31 22:28           ` [PATCH 1/2] man/man3/{mem,strn}*(): SYNOPSIS, STANDARDS: Document these as provided by <memory.h> G. Branden Robinson
2026-07-31 22:42           ` on the irresponsibility of pursuing C language reform (was: [PATCH 1/2] man/man3/{mem,strn}*(): SYNOPSIS, STANDARDS: Document these as provided by <memory.h>) Joseph Myers
2026-07-31 22:52             ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-07-31 23:11               ` Joseph Myers
2026-07-31 23:32                 ` G. Branden Robinson
2026-08-01 12:39                   ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-08-01 14:26                   ` Christopher Bazley
2026-08-01 15:29                     ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-07-31 23:45                 ` on the irresponsibility of pursuing C language reform (was: " Alejandro Colomar
2026-08-01 12:39                   ` Douglas McIlroy
2026-08-01 19:54                     ` G. Branden Robinson
2026-08-01 20:35                       ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-07-31 23:08             ` [PATCH 1/2] man/man3/{mem,strn}*(): SYNOPSIS, STANDARDS: Document these as provided by <memory.h> G. Branden Robinson
2026-07-31 23:28               ` Joseph Myers
2026-07-31 23:57                 ` G. Branden Robinson
2026-08-01  0:06                   ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-07-31 22:05     ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-07-31 22:16       ` Joseph Myers
2026-07-31 22:33         ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-07-31 23:48     ` [PATCH 1/2] man/man3/{mem, strn}*(): " Collin Funk
2026-07-31 23:52       ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-08-01  0:01         ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-07-31 21:19 ` [PATCH 2/2] man/man*/{string.3,memory.h.3head}: Move functions to a new page memory.h(3head) Alejandro Colomar
2026-07-31 21:20 ` [PATCH 0/2] alx-0097r1 - <memory.h>, the legitimate header for memcpy(3) et al Alejandro Colomar
2026-08-01  0:25 ` [PATCH v2] man/man3/mem*(): SYNOPSIS: Document non-standard mem*() functions as provided by <memory.h> Alejandro Colomar
2026-08-01 22:22   ` Bruno Haible
2026-08-01 22:38     ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-08-01 22:55       ` Bruno Haible
2026-08-01 23:10         ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-08-01 23:26           ` Collin Funk
2026-08-01 23:34             ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-08-01 23:29           ` Paul Eggert
2026-08-01 23:36             ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-08-02  0:08               ` the Linux man-pages as an educational tool (was: [PATCH v2] man/man3/mem*(): SYNOPSIS: Document non-standard mem*() functions as provided by <memory.h>) G. Branden Robinson
2026-08-02  0:45                 ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-08-02  1:04                   ` the Linux man-pages as an educational tool Collin Funk
2026-08-02  1:15                     ` G. Branden Robinson
2026-08-02  1:15                     ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-08-02  1:49                       ` Collin Funk
2026-08-02 11:29                         ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-08-02 11:47                           ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-08-02 12:04                       ` Alejandro Colomar [this message]
2026-08-02 21:23                       ` Maciej W. Rozycki
2026-08-02 21:34                         ` Alejandro Colomar
2026-08-02 23:08                           ` Arsen Arsenović

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