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From: Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton <lkcl@lkcl.net>
To: Lennart Sorensen <lsorense@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
Cc: Vadim Lobanov <vlobanov@speakeasy.net>, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: what's next for the linux kernel?
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 13:53:54 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20051004125354.GO10538@lkcl.net> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20051003181924.GB8011@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

> Hmm, so if we guess it might take 10 masks per processor type over it's
> life time as they change features and such, that's still less than 1% of
> the cost of the FAB in the first place.  I agree with the person that
> said intel/AMD/company probably don't care much, as long as their
> engineers make really darn sure that the mask is correct when they go to
> make one.
 
 you elaborate, therefore, on my point.

 anyone else, therefore, cannot hope to compete or even enter the
 market, at 90nm.

 which is why the first VIA eden processors maxed out at 800mhz (i'm
 guessing they were a 0.13micron and therefore 2.5 volts)

> >  ... why do you think intel is hyping support for and backing
> >  hyperthreads support in XEN/Linux so much?
> 
> Ehm, because intel has it and their P4 desperately needs help to gain
> any performance it can until they get the Pentium-M based desktop chips
> finished with multiple cores, and of course because AMD doesn't have it.
> Seem like good reasons for intel to try and push it.
 
 you lend weight to my earlier points: the push is to
 drive the engineers towards less gates on the excuse of
 cart-before-horsing the market with their "performance / watt"
 metrics, such that if 0.65nm comes off it's less painful
 and not too much of a jump, and they aim for more parallel
 processing (multiple cores).

 current  : 200 million gates with 90nm at 1.65 volt
 estimated: 40 million gates with 65nm at 1.1 volt
 estimated: 1 million gates with 45nm at 0.9 volt.

 the "off" voltage of a silicon germanium transistor is 0.8 volts.

 at 45nm the current leakage is so insane that the heat
 dissipation, through the oxide layer which covers the chip,
 ends up blowing the chip up.

 trouble.

 l.


  reply	other threads:[~2005-10-04 12:54 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 241+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2005-10-02 20:47 what's next for the linux kernel? Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-02 21:05 ` Rik van Riel
2005-10-02 23:05   ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-02 23:26     ` Rik van Riel
2005-10-03  1:26       ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-03  1:53         ` Rik van Riel
2005-10-02 23:37     ` Vadim Lobanov
2005-10-03  0:54       ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-03  1:20         ` Vadim Lobanov
2005-10-03  1:47           ` Al Viro
2005-10-03  1:50             ` Vadim Lobanov
2005-10-03  1:53               ` Al Viro
2005-10-03  2:00                 ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-03  9:34                 ` Erik Mouw
2005-10-03  1:53           ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-03  2:31             ` Vadim Lobanov
2005-10-02 23:14               ` D. Hazelton
2005-10-03 10:36             ` Giuseppe Bilotta
2005-10-03 21:34               ` Nix
2005-10-03 18:19             ` Lennart Sorensen
2005-10-04 12:53               ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton [this message]
2005-10-04 13:13                 ` linux-os (Dick Johnson)
2005-10-04 13:47                 ` Lennart Sorensen
2005-10-04 17:12                   ` Bill Davidsen
2005-10-04 16:20                 ` Gene Heskett
2005-10-03  2:12         ` Horst von Brand
2005-10-03 16:32           ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2005-10-03 19:02             ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-03  2:55         ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2005-10-03  3:25           ` Rik van Riel
2005-10-03 19:13           ` Alan Cox
2005-10-03 21:22           ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-03  5:03         ` Sonny Rao
2005-10-03 21:12           ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-03 23:46             ` Sonny Rao
2005-10-03 19:18         ` Alan Cox
2005-10-03 21:07           ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-03 22:05             ` Alan Cox
2005-10-04 14:01               ` Andi Kleen
2005-10-04  3:51             ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2005-10-03  0:04     ` Martin J. Bligh
2005-10-03  0:14       ` Randy.Dunlap
2005-10-03  0:44         ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-03  7:50           ` Meelis Roos
2005-10-03 18:08             ` Lennart Sorensen
2005-10-03 18:28               ` linux-os (Dick Johnson)
2005-10-03 20:00                 ` Jon Masters
2005-10-03 18:56               ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-03  1:10       ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-03  1:18         ` Rik van Riel
2005-10-03  1:27         ` Chase Venters
2005-10-04 12:59           ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-04 15:01             ` Tushar Adeshara
2005-10-04 15:04             ` Nikita Danilov
2005-10-04 15:58               ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-04 16:17               ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-04 17:15                 ` Nikita Danilov
2005-10-04 17:23                   ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-04 17:40                     ` Nikita Danilov
2005-10-04 17:30                 ` Rik van Riel
2005-10-06  0:07                   ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-06  9:56                     ` David Weinehall
2005-10-06 17:23                     ` Rik van Riel
2005-10-06 19:22                       ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-07  0:38                         ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-07  1:10                           ` Al Viro
2005-10-07  0:40                         ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-03 17:56         ` Joe Bob Spamtest
     [not found]           ` <20051003185804.GB8548@lkcl.net>
     [not found]             ` <43418834.6070400@spamtest.viacore.net>
2005-10-03 20:30               ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-02 22:49 ` Christoph Hellwig
2005-10-02 23:24   ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-03  4:04     ` Willy Tarreau
2005-10-03  0:38   ` Kurt Wall
2005-10-03  0:36 ` Kurt Wall
2005-10-03  0:43   ` David Leimbach
2005-10-03  5:45 ` Nick Piggin
2005-10-03 14:20 ` Jon Masters
2005-10-03 16:00   ` Miklos Szeredi
2005-10-03 19:12     ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-03 19:31       ` Miklos Szeredi
2005-10-03 20:22   ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-03 21:55     ` Jon Masters
2005-10-04  1:33     ` Jason Stubbs
2005-10-04 12:22       ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-04 19:47 ` Marc Perkel
2005-10-04 21:15   ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-04 23:40   ` Chase Venters
2005-10-05  5:35     ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2005-10-05 10:07       ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-05  6:54     ` Steven Rostedt
2005-10-05 10:03       ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-05 10:26     ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-05 11:04       ` Diego Calleja
2005-10-06 19:15         ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-06  5:04       ` Chase Venters
2005-10-06  4:27         ` [ANNOUNCE] Wolf Mountain File System [what's next for the linux kernel] jmerkey
2005-10-06  4:32           ` jmerkey
2005-10-06 10:44             ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-06 14:24               ` jmerkey
2005-10-06  8:08           ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2005-10-06 14:25             ` jmerkey
2005-10-11 18:18               ` [ANNOUNCE] Wolf Mountain File System Jeff V. Merkey
2005-10-06 15:10         ` what's next for the linux kernel? Michael Concannon
2005-10-06 19:28           ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-06 20:13             ` Michael Concannon
2005-10-06 20:22               ` Michael Concannon
2005-10-06 21:05               ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-06 21:20               ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-06 21:53                 ` Michael Concannon
2005-10-06 22:24                   ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-06 22:41                     ` Michael Concannon
2005-10-06 22:41                     ` Michael Concannon
2005-10-07  1:05                 ` Howard Chu
2005-10-08 22:27                 ` Helge Hafting
2005-10-08 22:42                   ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-05  0:59   ` Horst von Brand
2005-10-05  1:22   ` D. Hazelton
2005-10-05  5:49     ` Marc Perkel
2005-10-05  6:03       ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2005-10-05  9:24       ` Nikita Danilov
2005-10-05  9:56         ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-05 10:30           ` Nikita Danilov
2005-10-05 11:13             ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-05 12:17               ` Nikita Danilov
2005-10-05 12:36                 ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-05 18:47           ` Horst von Brand
2005-10-05 23:03             ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-05 21:55               ` jmerkey
2005-10-05 23:36                 ` Neil Brown
2005-10-05 22:21                   ` jmerkey
2005-10-05 23:42                   ` David Leimbach
2005-10-06  3:06               ` Horst von Brand
2005-10-06 10:54                 ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-06  8:03               ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2005-10-06  9:31                 ` Helge Hafting
2005-10-06 14:40                   ` Horst von Brand
2005-10-06 18:34                   ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2005-10-05 11:16         ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-05 13:21         ` Marc Perkel
2005-10-05 13:52           ` Nikita Danilov
2005-10-05 23:53           ` Helge Hafting
2005-10-05 16:36         ` Tim Bird
2005-10-05 13:45       ` D. Hazelton
2005-10-05 10:09     ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-05 10:23       ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2005-10-05 11:14         ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-05 14:17   ` Nix
2005-10-05 15:54   ` Rik van Riel
2005-10-05 15:58     ` Marc Perkel
2005-10-05 16:15       ` Al Viro
2005-10-05 16:23         ` Marc Perkel
2005-10-05 19:30           ` Lennart Sorensen
2005-10-05 22:48             ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-06 10:28               ` Nikita Danilov
2005-10-07  0:59               ` Joe Bob Spamtest
2005-10-07  0:25       ` Joe Bob Spamtest
2005-10-05 20:11     ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
     [not found] <4TiWy-4HQ-3@gated-at.bofh.it>
2005-10-02 22:43 ` Robert Hancock
2005-10-02 23:32   ` Gene Heskett
2005-10-02 23:41     ` Vadim Lobanov
2005-10-02 23:48     ` Rik van Riel
2005-10-03  3:50       ` Gene Heskett
2005-10-03  9:39         ` Jesper Juhl
     [not found] ` <4U0XH-3Gp-39@gated-at.bofh.it>
2005-10-04 22:04   ` Bodo Eggert
2005-10-05 10:36     ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-05 23:12       ` Nix
2005-10-05 23:28         ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-05 23:49           ` Nix
2005-10-05 14:34     ` Nix
2005-10-05 14:41       ` Marc Perkel
2005-10-05 14:44         ` Lennart Sorensen
2005-10-05 14:48           ` Marc Perkel
2005-10-05 14:56             ` Lennart Sorensen
2005-10-05 15:08               ` Marc Perkel
2005-10-05 15:26                 ` Lennart Sorensen
2005-10-05 19:16                 ` Nix
2005-10-05 19:30                   ` Marc Perkel
2005-10-05 20:26                     ` Nix
2005-10-08 16:49                     ` Denis Vlasenko
2005-10-05 19:40                   ` Al Viro
2005-10-05 19:49                     ` Marc Perkel
2005-10-05 19:55                       ` Lennart Sorensen
2005-10-05 20:25                     ` linux-os (Dick Johnson)
2005-10-05 20:31                 ` Nix
2005-10-05 14:59             ` Nigel Rantor
2005-10-05 16:16             ` Bodo Eggert
2005-10-05 19:37             ` Florin Malita
2005-10-05 19:44               ` Marc Perkel
2005-10-05 19:52                 ` Lennart Sorensen
2005-10-05 20:05                   ` Marc Perkel
2005-10-05 20:23                     ` Lennart Sorensen
2005-10-06  2:56                     ` Horst von Brand
2005-10-06  3:50                       ` Marc Perkel
2005-10-05 20:21                 ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2005-10-05 20:58                 ` Dave Neuer
2005-10-05 21:05                 ` Bodo Eggert
2005-10-06  6:43                 ` Steven Rostedt
2005-10-05 19:54             ` Bernd Petrovitsch
2005-10-07  0:11             ` Joe Bob Spamtest
2005-10-05 14:52           ` linux-os (Dick Johnson)
2005-10-05 14:57             ` Lennart Sorensen
2005-10-05 15:26               ` linux-os (Dick Johnson)
2005-10-05 15:24         ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-05 15:30           ` Lennart Sorensen
2005-10-05 15:42             ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-05 15:55               ` Lennart Sorensen
2005-10-06 15:41                 ` Ragnar Hojland Espinosa
2005-10-05 14:55       ` David Leimbach
2005-10-05 16:25         ` Bodo Eggert
2005-10-05 16:41           ` David Leimbach
2005-10-05 19:21             ` Nix
2005-10-05 23:23             ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-06  9:53               ` grundig
2005-10-06 10:45                 ` Tomasz Kłoczko
2005-10-06 15:18                 ` Greg Norris
2005-10-05 20:27     ` Marc Perkel
2005-10-05 20:41       ` Julian Blake Kongslie
2005-10-05 20:51         ` Bas Westerbaan
2005-10-05 20:57           ` Julian Blake Kongslie
     [not found]   ` <4Uis4-4pZ-5@gated-at.bofh.it>
2005-10-05 17:43     ` Bodo Eggert
2005-10-05 19:27       ` Nix
2005-10-05 20:04         ` Bodo Eggert
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2005-10-04  4:11 Martin Fouts
     [not found] <mail.linux.kernel/20051003203037.GG8548@lkcl.net>
     [not found] ` <05Oct4.173802edt.33143@gpu.utcc.utoronto.ca>
2005-10-05 12:07   ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-05 12:31     ` Jens Axboe
2005-10-05 13:35       ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-05 13:40         ` Jens Axboe
2005-10-05 15:29           ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-05 15:51             ` Jens Axboe
2005-10-05 16:38               ` Steven Rostedt
2005-10-05 23:24                 ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-05 17:01     ` Dave Neuer
     [not found]     ` <161717d50510050957t2eaa3af0u8c6b3b4d327497a9@mail.gmail.com>
2005-10-05 23:05       ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
     [not found] <DE88BDF02F4319469812588C7950A97E9312A6@ussunex1.palmsource.com>
2005-10-06  0:03 ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-06  0:14   ` David S. Miller
2005-10-06  1:11     ` Nigel Rantor
2005-10-06 11:10     ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-06 15:44       ` Al Viro
2005-10-06  0:51   ` Howard Chu
2005-10-06  3:53 Nikolay N. Ivanov
2005-10-06 23:24 Joe Bob Spamtest

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