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From: Marc Perkel <marc@perkel.com>
To: "D. Hazelton" <dhazelton@enter.net>
Cc: Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton <lkcl@lkcl.net>,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: what's next for the linux kernel?
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 22:49:03 -0700	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <4343694F.5000709@perkel.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <200510050122.39307.dhazelton@enter.net>



D. Hazelton wrote:

>  
>
>>Novell Netware type permissions. ACLs are a step in the right
>>direction but Linux isn't any where near where Novell was back in
>>1990. Linux lets you - for example - to delete files that you have
>>no read or write access rights to. 
>>    
>>
>
>As someone else pointed out, this is because unlinking is related to 
>your access permissions on the parent directory and not the file.
>
>  
>
Right - that's Unix "inside the box" thinking. The idea is to make the 
operating system smarter so that the user doesn't have to deal with 
what's computer friendly - but reather what makes sense to the user. 
 From a user's perspective if you have not rights to access a file then 
why should you be allowed to delete it?

Now - the idea is to create choice. If you need to emulate Unix nehavior 
for compatibility that's fine. But I would migrate away from that into a 
permissions paradygme that worked like Netware.

I started with Netware and I'm spoiled. They had it right 15 years ago 
and Linux isn't any where near what I was with Netware and DOS in 1990. 
Once you've had this kind of permission power Linux is a real big step down.

So - the thread is about the future so I say - time to fix Unix.



  reply	other threads:[~2005-10-05  5:49 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 241+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2005-10-02 20:47 what's next for the linux kernel? Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-02 21:05 ` Rik van Riel
2005-10-02 23:05   ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-02 23:26     ` Rik van Riel
2005-10-03  1:26       ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-03  1:53         ` Rik van Riel
2005-10-02 23:37     ` Vadim Lobanov
2005-10-03  0:54       ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-03  1:20         ` Vadim Lobanov
2005-10-03  1:47           ` Al Viro
2005-10-03  1:50             ` Vadim Lobanov
2005-10-03  1:53               ` Al Viro
2005-10-03  2:00                 ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-03  9:34                 ` Erik Mouw
2005-10-03  1:53           ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-03  2:31             ` Vadim Lobanov
2005-10-02 23:14               ` D. Hazelton
2005-10-03 10:36             ` Giuseppe Bilotta
2005-10-03 21:34               ` Nix
2005-10-03 18:19             ` Lennart Sorensen
2005-10-04 12:53               ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-04 13:13                 ` linux-os (Dick Johnson)
2005-10-04 13:47                 ` Lennart Sorensen
2005-10-04 17:12                   ` Bill Davidsen
2005-10-04 16:20                 ` Gene Heskett
2005-10-03  2:12         ` Horst von Brand
2005-10-03 16:32           ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2005-10-03 19:02             ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-03  2:55         ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2005-10-03  3:25           ` Rik van Riel
2005-10-03 19:13           ` Alan Cox
2005-10-03 21:22           ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-03  5:03         ` Sonny Rao
2005-10-03 21:12           ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-03 23:46             ` Sonny Rao
2005-10-03 19:18         ` Alan Cox
2005-10-03 21:07           ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-03 22:05             ` Alan Cox
2005-10-04 14:01               ` Andi Kleen
2005-10-04  3:51             ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2005-10-03  0:04     ` Martin J. Bligh
2005-10-03  0:14       ` Randy.Dunlap
2005-10-03  0:44         ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-03  7:50           ` Meelis Roos
2005-10-03 18:08             ` Lennart Sorensen
2005-10-03 18:28               ` linux-os (Dick Johnson)
2005-10-03 20:00                 ` Jon Masters
2005-10-03 18:56               ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-03  1:10       ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-03  1:18         ` Rik van Riel
2005-10-03  1:27         ` Chase Venters
2005-10-04 12:59           ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-04 15:01             ` Tushar Adeshara
2005-10-04 15:04             ` Nikita Danilov
2005-10-04 15:58               ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-04 16:17               ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-04 17:15                 ` Nikita Danilov
2005-10-04 17:23                   ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-04 17:40                     ` Nikita Danilov
2005-10-04 17:30                 ` Rik van Riel
2005-10-06  0:07                   ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-06  9:56                     ` David Weinehall
2005-10-06 17:23                     ` Rik van Riel
2005-10-06 19:22                       ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-07  0:38                         ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-07  1:10                           ` Al Viro
2005-10-07  0:40                         ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-03 17:56         ` Joe Bob Spamtest
     [not found]           ` <20051003185804.GB8548@lkcl.net>
     [not found]             ` <43418834.6070400@spamtest.viacore.net>
2005-10-03 20:30               ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-02 22:49 ` Christoph Hellwig
2005-10-02 23:24   ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-03  4:04     ` Willy Tarreau
2005-10-03  0:38   ` Kurt Wall
2005-10-03  0:36 ` Kurt Wall
2005-10-03  0:43   ` David Leimbach
2005-10-03  5:45 ` Nick Piggin
2005-10-03 14:20 ` Jon Masters
2005-10-03 16:00   ` Miklos Szeredi
2005-10-03 19:12     ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-03 19:31       ` Miklos Szeredi
2005-10-03 20:22   ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-03 21:55     ` Jon Masters
2005-10-04  1:33     ` Jason Stubbs
2005-10-04 12:22       ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-04 19:47 ` Marc Perkel
2005-10-04 21:15   ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-04 23:40   ` Chase Venters
2005-10-05  5:35     ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2005-10-05 10:07       ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-05  6:54     ` Steven Rostedt
2005-10-05 10:03       ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-05 10:26     ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-05 11:04       ` Diego Calleja
2005-10-06 19:15         ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-06  5:04       ` Chase Venters
2005-10-06  4:27         ` [ANNOUNCE] Wolf Mountain File System [what's next for the linux kernel] jmerkey
2005-10-06  4:32           ` jmerkey
2005-10-06 10:44             ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-06 14:24               ` jmerkey
2005-10-06  8:08           ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2005-10-06 14:25             ` jmerkey
2005-10-11 18:18               ` [ANNOUNCE] Wolf Mountain File System Jeff V. Merkey
2005-10-06 15:10         ` what's next for the linux kernel? Michael Concannon
2005-10-06 19:28           ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-06 20:13             ` Michael Concannon
2005-10-06 20:22               ` Michael Concannon
2005-10-06 21:05               ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-06 21:20               ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-06 21:53                 ` Michael Concannon
2005-10-06 22:24                   ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-06 22:41                     ` Michael Concannon
2005-10-06 22:41                     ` Michael Concannon
2005-10-07  1:05                 ` Howard Chu
2005-10-08 22:27                 ` Helge Hafting
2005-10-08 22:42                   ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-05  0:59   ` Horst von Brand
2005-10-05  1:22   ` D. Hazelton
2005-10-05  5:49     ` Marc Perkel [this message]
2005-10-05  6:03       ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2005-10-05  9:24       ` Nikita Danilov
2005-10-05  9:56         ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-05 10:30           ` Nikita Danilov
2005-10-05 11:13             ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-05 12:17               ` Nikita Danilov
2005-10-05 12:36                 ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-05 18:47           ` Horst von Brand
2005-10-05 23:03             ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-05 21:55               ` jmerkey
2005-10-05 23:36                 ` Neil Brown
2005-10-05 22:21                   ` jmerkey
2005-10-05 23:42                   ` David Leimbach
2005-10-06  3:06               ` Horst von Brand
2005-10-06 10:54                 ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-06  8:03               ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2005-10-06  9:31                 ` Helge Hafting
2005-10-06 14:40                   ` Horst von Brand
2005-10-06 18:34                   ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2005-10-05 11:16         ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-05 13:21         ` Marc Perkel
2005-10-05 13:52           ` Nikita Danilov
2005-10-05 23:53           ` Helge Hafting
2005-10-05 16:36         ` Tim Bird
2005-10-05 13:45       ` D. Hazelton
2005-10-05 10:09     ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-05 10:23       ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2005-10-05 11:14         ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-05 14:17   ` Nix
2005-10-05 15:54   ` Rik van Riel
2005-10-05 15:58     ` Marc Perkel
2005-10-05 16:15       ` Al Viro
2005-10-05 16:23         ` Marc Perkel
2005-10-05 19:30           ` Lennart Sorensen
2005-10-05 22:48             ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-06 10:28               ` Nikita Danilov
2005-10-07  0:59               ` Joe Bob Spamtest
2005-10-07  0:25       ` Joe Bob Spamtest
2005-10-05 20:11     ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
     [not found] <4TiWy-4HQ-3@gated-at.bofh.it>
2005-10-02 22:43 ` Robert Hancock
2005-10-02 23:32   ` Gene Heskett
2005-10-02 23:41     ` Vadim Lobanov
2005-10-02 23:48     ` Rik van Riel
2005-10-03  3:50       ` Gene Heskett
2005-10-03  9:39         ` Jesper Juhl
     [not found] ` <4U0XH-3Gp-39@gated-at.bofh.it>
2005-10-04 22:04   ` Bodo Eggert
2005-10-05 10:36     ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-05 23:12       ` Nix
2005-10-05 23:28         ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-05 23:49           ` Nix
2005-10-05 14:34     ` Nix
2005-10-05 14:41       ` Marc Perkel
2005-10-05 14:44         ` Lennart Sorensen
2005-10-05 14:48           ` Marc Perkel
2005-10-05 14:56             ` Lennart Sorensen
2005-10-05 15:08               ` Marc Perkel
2005-10-05 15:26                 ` Lennart Sorensen
2005-10-05 19:16                 ` Nix
2005-10-05 19:30                   ` Marc Perkel
2005-10-05 20:26                     ` Nix
2005-10-08 16:49                     ` Denis Vlasenko
2005-10-05 19:40                   ` Al Viro
2005-10-05 19:49                     ` Marc Perkel
2005-10-05 19:55                       ` Lennart Sorensen
2005-10-05 20:25                     ` linux-os (Dick Johnson)
2005-10-05 20:31                 ` Nix
2005-10-05 14:59             ` Nigel Rantor
2005-10-05 16:16             ` Bodo Eggert
2005-10-05 19:37             ` Florin Malita
2005-10-05 19:44               ` Marc Perkel
2005-10-05 19:52                 ` Lennart Sorensen
2005-10-05 20:05                   ` Marc Perkel
2005-10-05 20:23                     ` Lennart Sorensen
2005-10-06  2:56                     ` Horst von Brand
2005-10-06  3:50                       ` Marc Perkel
2005-10-05 20:21                 ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2005-10-05 20:58                 ` Dave Neuer
2005-10-05 21:05                 ` Bodo Eggert
2005-10-06  6:43                 ` Steven Rostedt
2005-10-05 19:54             ` Bernd Petrovitsch
2005-10-07  0:11             ` Joe Bob Spamtest
2005-10-05 14:52           ` linux-os (Dick Johnson)
2005-10-05 14:57             ` Lennart Sorensen
2005-10-05 15:26               ` linux-os (Dick Johnson)
2005-10-05 15:24         ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-05 15:30           ` Lennart Sorensen
2005-10-05 15:42             ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-05 15:55               ` Lennart Sorensen
2005-10-06 15:41                 ` Ragnar Hojland Espinosa
2005-10-05 14:55       ` David Leimbach
2005-10-05 16:25         ` Bodo Eggert
2005-10-05 16:41           ` David Leimbach
2005-10-05 19:21             ` Nix
2005-10-05 23:23             ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-06  9:53               ` grundig
2005-10-06 10:45                 ` Tomasz Kłoczko
2005-10-06 15:18                 ` Greg Norris
2005-10-05 20:27     ` Marc Perkel
2005-10-05 20:41       ` Julian Blake Kongslie
2005-10-05 20:51         ` Bas Westerbaan
2005-10-05 20:57           ` Julian Blake Kongslie
     [not found]   ` <4Uis4-4pZ-5@gated-at.bofh.it>
2005-10-05 17:43     ` Bodo Eggert
2005-10-05 19:27       ` Nix
2005-10-05 20:04         ` Bodo Eggert
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2005-10-04  4:11 Martin Fouts
     [not found] <mail.linux.kernel/20051003203037.GG8548@lkcl.net>
     [not found] ` <05Oct4.173802edt.33143@gpu.utcc.utoronto.ca>
2005-10-05 12:07   ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-05 12:31     ` Jens Axboe
2005-10-05 13:35       ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-05 13:40         ` Jens Axboe
2005-10-05 15:29           ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-05 15:51             ` Jens Axboe
2005-10-05 16:38               ` Steven Rostedt
2005-10-05 23:24                 ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-05 17:01     ` Dave Neuer
     [not found]     ` <161717d50510050957t2eaa3af0u8c6b3b4d327497a9@mail.gmail.com>
2005-10-05 23:05       ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
     [not found] <DE88BDF02F4319469812588C7950A97E9312A6@ussunex1.palmsource.com>
2005-10-06  0:03 ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-06  0:14   ` David S. Miller
2005-10-06  1:11     ` Nigel Rantor
2005-10-06 11:10     ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-06 15:44       ` Al Viro
2005-10-06  0:51   ` Howard Chu
2005-10-06  3:53 Nikolay N. Ivanov
2005-10-06 23:24 Joe Bob Spamtest

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