From: Chase Venters <chase.venters@clientec.com>
To: Marc Perkel <marc@perkel.com>
Cc: Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton <lkcl@lkcl.net>,
linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: what's next for the linux kernel?
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 18:40:33 -0500 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <200510041840.55820.chase.venters@clientec.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <4342DC4D.8090908@perkel.com>
On Tuesday 04 October 2005 02:47 pm, Marc Perkel wrote:
> The bootup sequence of Linux is pathetic. What an ungodly mess. The
> FSTAB file needs to go and a smarter system needs to be developed. I
> know this isn't entirely a kernel issue but it is somewhat related.
>
> I think development needs to be done to make the kernel cleaner and
> smarter rather than just bigger and faster. It's time to look at what
> users need and try to make Linux somewhat more windows like in being
> able to smartly recover from problems. Perhaps better error messages
> that your traditional kernel panic or hex dump screen of death.
>
> The big challenge for Linux is to be able to put it in the hands of
> people who don't want to dedicate their entire life to understanding all
> the little quirks that we have become used to. The slogan should be
> "this just works" and is intuitive.
I agree with the basic sentiment here.
fstab is pretty traditional - and you're right, it really isn't a kernel thing
per se. Let's not forget the value of simplicity though. fstab works and does
its job well. I do think it would be interesting for a distribution to
experiment with different approaches, though -- something with the emerging
hardware abstraction layer perhaps.
As for error messages... the equivalent of the Linux kernel panic is basically
the Windows BSOD. Neither one of them should appear in the day to day use of
the system as they indicate bugs. Linux is actually the clear winner here, I
think, because a Windows BSOD gives you a single hex code and no indication
of what happened, except for very vague codes like
"PAGE_FAULT_IN_NON_PAGED_AREA". I'd much rather have a backtrace :) In any
case, I'm watching the work on kdump with a keen interest.
Really, I think the whole issue of usability isn't tied directly to the
kernel. The kernel has been making leaps and bounds in making this easy for
userspace to deal with (where the approaches to solve the problem belong).
Sysfs is an obvious great example.
Work on dbus and HAL should give us good improvements in these areas. One
remaining challenge I see is system configuration - each daemon tends to
adopt its own syntax for configuration, which means that providing a GUI for
novice users to manage these systems means attacking each problem separately
and in full. Now I certainly wouldn't advocate a Windows-style registry,
because I think it's full of obvious problems. Nevertheless, it would be nice
to have some kind of configuration editor abstraction library that had some
sort of syntax definition database to allow for some interesting work on
GUIs.
In any case, I think pretty much all of this work lives outside the kernel.
There is one side note I'd make about booting - my own boot process has to
wait forever for my Adaptec SCSI controller to wake up. It would be
interesting if bootup initialization tasks could be organized into dependency
levels and run in parallel, though as I'm a beginner to the workings of the
kernel I'm not entirely sure how possible this would be.
Cheers,
Chase Venters
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2005-10-04 23:41 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 241+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2005-10-02 20:47 what's next for the linux kernel? Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-02 21:05 ` Rik van Riel
2005-10-02 23:05 ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-02 23:26 ` Rik van Riel
2005-10-03 1:26 ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-03 1:53 ` Rik van Riel
2005-10-02 23:37 ` Vadim Lobanov
2005-10-03 0:54 ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-03 1:20 ` Vadim Lobanov
2005-10-03 1:47 ` Al Viro
2005-10-03 1:50 ` Vadim Lobanov
2005-10-03 1:53 ` Al Viro
2005-10-03 2:00 ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-03 9:34 ` Erik Mouw
2005-10-03 1:53 ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-03 2:31 ` Vadim Lobanov
2005-10-02 23:14 ` D. Hazelton
2005-10-03 10:36 ` Giuseppe Bilotta
2005-10-03 21:34 ` Nix
2005-10-03 18:19 ` Lennart Sorensen
2005-10-04 12:53 ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-04 13:13 ` linux-os (Dick Johnson)
2005-10-04 13:47 ` Lennart Sorensen
2005-10-04 17:12 ` Bill Davidsen
2005-10-04 16:20 ` Gene Heskett
2005-10-03 2:12 ` Horst von Brand
2005-10-03 16:32 ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2005-10-03 19:02 ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-03 2:55 ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2005-10-03 3:25 ` Rik van Riel
2005-10-03 19:13 ` Alan Cox
2005-10-03 21:22 ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-03 5:03 ` Sonny Rao
2005-10-03 21:12 ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-03 23:46 ` Sonny Rao
2005-10-03 19:18 ` Alan Cox
2005-10-03 21:07 ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-03 22:05 ` Alan Cox
2005-10-04 14:01 ` Andi Kleen
2005-10-04 3:51 ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2005-10-03 0:04 ` Martin J. Bligh
2005-10-03 0:14 ` Randy.Dunlap
2005-10-03 0:44 ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-03 7:50 ` Meelis Roos
2005-10-03 18:08 ` Lennart Sorensen
2005-10-03 18:28 ` linux-os (Dick Johnson)
2005-10-03 20:00 ` Jon Masters
2005-10-03 18:56 ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-03 1:10 ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-03 1:18 ` Rik van Riel
2005-10-03 1:27 ` Chase Venters
2005-10-04 12:59 ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-04 15:01 ` Tushar Adeshara
2005-10-04 15:04 ` Nikita Danilov
2005-10-04 15:58 ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-04 16:17 ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-04 17:15 ` Nikita Danilov
2005-10-04 17:23 ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-04 17:40 ` Nikita Danilov
2005-10-04 17:30 ` Rik van Riel
2005-10-06 0:07 ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-06 9:56 ` David Weinehall
2005-10-06 17:23 ` Rik van Riel
2005-10-06 19:22 ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-07 0:38 ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-07 1:10 ` Al Viro
2005-10-07 0:40 ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-03 17:56 ` Joe Bob Spamtest
[not found] ` <20051003185804.GB8548@lkcl.net>
[not found] ` <43418834.6070400@spamtest.viacore.net>
2005-10-03 20:30 ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-02 22:49 ` Christoph Hellwig
2005-10-02 23:24 ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-03 4:04 ` Willy Tarreau
2005-10-03 0:38 ` Kurt Wall
2005-10-03 0:36 ` Kurt Wall
2005-10-03 0:43 ` David Leimbach
2005-10-03 5:45 ` Nick Piggin
2005-10-03 14:20 ` Jon Masters
2005-10-03 16:00 ` Miklos Szeredi
2005-10-03 19:12 ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-03 19:31 ` Miklos Szeredi
2005-10-03 20:22 ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-03 21:55 ` Jon Masters
2005-10-04 1:33 ` Jason Stubbs
2005-10-04 12:22 ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-04 19:47 ` Marc Perkel
2005-10-04 21:15 ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-04 23:40 ` Chase Venters [this message]
2005-10-05 5:35 ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2005-10-05 10:07 ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-05 6:54 ` Steven Rostedt
2005-10-05 10:03 ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-05 10:26 ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-05 11:04 ` Diego Calleja
2005-10-06 19:15 ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-06 5:04 ` Chase Venters
2005-10-06 4:27 ` [ANNOUNCE] Wolf Mountain File System [what's next for the linux kernel] jmerkey
2005-10-06 4:32 ` jmerkey
2005-10-06 10:44 ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-06 14:24 ` jmerkey
2005-10-06 8:08 ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2005-10-06 14:25 ` jmerkey
2005-10-11 18:18 ` [ANNOUNCE] Wolf Mountain File System Jeff V. Merkey
2005-10-06 15:10 ` what's next for the linux kernel? Michael Concannon
2005-10-06 19:28 ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-06 20:13 ` Michael Concannon
2005-10-06 20:22 ` Michael Concannon
2005-10-06 21:05 ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-06 21:20 ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-06 21:53 ` Michael Concannon
2005-10-06 22:24 ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-06 22:41 ` Michael Concannon
2005-10-06 22:41 ` Michael Concannon
2005-10-07 1:05 ` Howard Chu
2005-10-08 22:27 ` Helge Hafting
2005-10-08 22:42 ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-05 0:59 ` Horst von Brand
2005-10-05 1:22 ` D. Hazelton
2005-10-05 5:49 ` Marc Perkel
2005-10-05 6:03 ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2005-10-05 9:24 ` Nikita Danilov
2005-10-05 9:56 ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-05 10:30 ` Nikita Danilov
2005-10-05 11:13 ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-05 12:17 ` Nikita Danilov
2005-10-05 12:36 ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-05 18:47 ` Horst von Brand
2005-10-05 23:03 ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-05 21:55 ` jmerkey
2005-10-05 23:36 ` Neil Brown
2005-10-05 22:21 ` jmerkey
2005-10-05 23:42 ` David Leimbach
2005-10-06 3:06 ` Horst von Brand
2005-10-06 10:54 ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-06 8:03 ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2005-10-06 9:31 ` Helge Hafting
2005-10-06 14:40 ` Horst von Brand
2005-10-06 18:34 ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2005-10-05 11:16 ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-05 13:21 ` Marc Perkel
2005-10-05 13:52 ` Nikita Danilov
2005-10-05 23:53 ` Helge Hafting
2005-10-05 16:36 ` Tim Bird
2005-10-05 13:45 ` D. Hazelton
2005-10-05 10:09 ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-05 10:23 ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2005-10-05 11:14 ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-05 14:17 ` Nix
2005-10-05 15:54 ` Rik van Riel
2005-10-05 15:58 ` Marc Perkel
2005-10-05 16:15 ` Al Viro
2005-10-05 16:23 ` Marc Perkel
2005-10-05 19:30 ` Lennart Sorensen
2005-10-05 22:48 ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-06 10:28 ` Nikita Danilov
2005-10-07 0:59 ` Joe Bob Spamtest
2005-10-07 0:25 ` Joe Bob Spamtest
2005-10-05 20:11 ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
[not found] <4TiWy-4HQ-3@gated-at.bofh.it>
2005-10-02 22:43 ` Robert Hancock
2005-10-02 23:32 ` Gene Heskett
2005-10-02 23:41 ` Vadim Lobanov
2005-10-02 23:48 ` Rik van Riel
2005-10-03 3:50 ` Gene Heskett
2005-10-03 9:39 ` Jesper Juhl
[not found] ` <4U0XH-3Gp-39@gated-at.bofh.it>
2005-10-04 22:04 ` Bodo Eggert
2005-10-05 10:36 ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-05 23:12 ` Nix
2005-10-05 23:28 ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-05 23:49 ` Nix
2005-10-05 14:34 ` Nix
2005-10-05 14:41 ` Marc Perkel
2005-10-05 14:44 ` Lennart Sorensen
2005-10-05 14:48 ` Marc Perkel
2005-10-05 14:56 ` Lennart Sorensen
2005-10-05 15:08 ` Marc Perkel
2005-10-05 15:26 ` Lennart Sorensen
2005-10-05 19:16 ` Nix
2005-10-05 19:30 ` Marc Perkel
2005-10-05 20:26 ` Nix
2005-10-08 16:49 ` Denis Vlasenko
2005-10-05 19:40 ` Al Viro
2005-10-05 19:49 ` Marc Perkel
2005-10-05 19:55 ` Lennart Sorensen
2005-10-05 20:25 ` linux-os (Dick Johnson)
2005-10-05 20:31 ` Nix
2005-10-05 14:59 ` Nigel Rantor
2005-10-05 16:16 ` Bodo Eggert
2005-10-05 19:37 ` Florin Malita
2005-10-05 19:44 ` Marc Perkel
2005-10-05 19:52 ` Lennart Sorensen
2005-10-05 20:05 ` Marc Perkel
2005-10-05 20:23 ` Lennart Sorensen
2005-10-06 2:56 ` Horst von Brand
2005-10-06 3:50 ` Marc Perkel
2005-10-05 20:21 ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2005-10-05 20:58 ` Dave Neuer
2005-10-05 21:05 ` Bodo Eggert
2005-10-06 6:43 ` Steven Rostedt
2005-10-05 19:54 ` Bernd Petrovitsch
2005-10-07 0:11 ` Joe Bob Spamtest
2005-10-05 14:52 ` linux-os (Dick Johnson)
2005-10-05 14:57 ` Lennart Sorensen
2005-10-05 15:26 ` linux-os (Dick Johnson)
2005-10-05 15:24 ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-05 15:30 ` Lennart Sorensen
2005-10-05 15:42 ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-05 15:55 ` Lennart Sorensen
2005-10-06 15:41 ` Ragnar Hojland Espinosa
2005-10-05 14:55 ` David Leimbach
2005-10-05 16:25 ` Bodo Eggert
2005-10-05 16:41 ` David Leimbach
2005-10-05 19:21 ` Nix
2005-10-05 23:23 ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-06 9:53 ` grundig
2005-10-06 10:45 ` Tomasz Kłoczko
2005-10-06 15:18 ` Greg Norris
2005-10-05 20:27 ` Marc Perkel
2005-10-05 20:41 ` Julian Blake Kongslie
2005-10-05 20:51 ` Bas Westerbaan
2005-10-05 20:57 ` Julian Blake Kongslie
[not found] ` <4Uis4-4pZ-5@gated-at.bofh.it>
2005-10-05 17:43 ` Bodo Eggert
2005-10-05 19:27 ` Nix
2005-10-05 20:04 ` Bodo Eggert
-- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2005-10-04 4:11 Martin Fouts
[not found] <mail.linux.kernel/20051003203037.GG8548@lkcl.net>
[not found] ` <05Oct4.173802edt.33143@gpu.utcc.utoronto.ca>
2005-10-05 12:07 ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-05 12:31 ` Jens Axboe
2005-10-05 13:35 ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-05 13:40 ` Jens Axboe
2005-10-05 15:29 ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-05 15:51 ` Jens Axboe
2005-10-05 16:38 ` Steven Rostedt
2005-10-05 23:24 ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-05 17:01 ` Dave Neuer
[not found] ` <161717d50510050957t2eaa3af0u8c6b3b4d327497a9@mail.gmail.com>
2005-10-05 23:05 ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
[not found] <DE88BDF02F4319469812588C7950A97E9312A6@ussunex1.palmsource.com>
2005-10-06 0:03 ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-06 0:14 ` David S. Miller
2005-10-06 1:11 ` Nigel Rantor
2005-10-06 11:10 ` Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
2005-10-06 15:44 ` Al Viro
2005-10-06 0:51 ` Howard Chu
2005-10-06 3:53 Nikolay N. Ivanov
2005-10-06 23:24 Joe Bob Spamtest
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