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From: Rusty Russell <rusty@rustcorp.com.au>
To: Anthony Liguori <aliguori@us.ibm.com>
Cc: agl@linux.vnet.ibm.com, qemu-devel@nongnu.org,
	Avi Kivity <avi@redhat.com>,
	virtualization@lists.linux-foundation.org,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: virtio: Add memory statistics reporting to the balloon driver
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 13:13:23 +1030	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <200911111313.24226.rusty@rustcorp.com.au> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <4AFA005C.7020607@us.ibm.com>

On Wed, 11 Nov 2009 10:37:56 am Anthony Liguori wrote:
> Rusty Russell wrote:
> > You register an outbuf at initialization time.  The host hands it back when
> > it wants you to refill it with stats.
> 
> That's strangely backwards.  Guest send a stat buffer that's filled out, 
> host acks it when it wants another.  That doesn't seem bizarre to you?

Yep!  But that's a limitation of our brains, not the infrastructure ;)

Think of the stats as an infinite stream of data.  Read from it at your
leisure.  This is how, for example, console output works.

> > But the universe is remarkably indifferent to what we want.  Is it actually
> > sufficient or are we going to regret our laziness?
> 
> It's not laziness, it's consistency.  How is actual different than free 
> memory or any other stat?

Because it's a COLLECTION of stats.  For example, swap in should be < swap
out.  Now, the current Linux implementation of all_vm_events() is non-atomic
anyway, so maybe we can just document this as best-effort.  I'm saying that
if it *is* a problem, I think we need a vq.

But it raises the question: what stats are generally useful cross-OS?  Should
we be supplying numbers like "unused" (free) "instantly discardable" (ie.
clean), "discardable to disk" (ie. file-backed), "discardable to swap"
(ie. swap-backed) and "unswappable" instead?

(I just made those up, of course, but it seems like that would give a fair
indication of real memory pressure in any OS).

Thanks,
Rusty.

WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Rusty Russell <rusty@rustcorp.com.au>
To: Anthony Liguori <aliguori@us.ibm.com>
Cc: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org,
	virtualization@lists.linux-foundation.org,
	agl@linux.vnet.ibm.com, qemu-devel@nongnu.org,
	Avi Kivity <avi@redhat.com>
Subject: [Qemu-devel] Re: virtio: Add memory statistics reporting to the balloon driver
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 13:13:23 +1030	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <200911111313.24226.rusty@rustcorp.com.au> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <4AFA005C.7020607@us.ibm.com>

On Wed, 11 Nov 2009 10:37:56 am Anthony Liguori wrote:
> Rusty Russell wrote:
> > You register an outbuf at initialization time.  The host hands it back when
> > it wants you to refill it with stats.
> 
> That's strangely backwards.  Guest send a stat buffer that's filled out, 
> host acks it when it wants another.  That doesn't seem bizarre to you?

Yep!  But that's a limitation of our brains, not the infrastructure ;)

Think of the stats as an infinite stream of data.  Read from it at your
leisure.  This is how, for example, console output works.

> > But the universe is remarkably indifferent to what we want.  Is it actually
> > sufficient or are we going to regret our laziness?
> 
> It's not laziness, it's consistency.  How is actual different than free 
> memory or any other stat?

Because it's a COLLECTION of stats.  For example, swap in should be < swap
out.  Now, the current Linux implementation of all_vm_events() is non-atomic
anyway, so maybe we can just document this as best-effort.  I'm saying that
if it *is* a problem, I think we need a vq.

But it raises the question: what stats are generally useful cross-OS?  Should
we be supplying numbers like "unused" (free) "instantly discardable" (ie.
clean), "discardable to disk" (ie. file-backed), "discardable to swap"
(ie. swap-backed) and "unswappable" instead?

(I just made those up, of course, but it seems like that would give a fair
indication of real memory pressure in any OS).

Thanks,
Rusty.

  reply	other threads:[~2009-11-11  2:43 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 58+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2009-11-09 16:07 [Qemu-devel] [RFC] virtio: Report new guest memory statistics pertinent to memory ballooning (V2) Adam Litke
2009-11-09 16:32 ` virtio: Add memory statistics reporting to the balloon driver Adam Litke
2009-11-09 16:32 ` Adam Litke
2009-11-09 16:32   ` [Qemu-devel] " Adam Litke
2009-11-10  2:42   ` Rusty Russell
2009-11-10  2:42   ` [Qemu-devel] " Rusty Russell
2009-11-10  2:42   ` Rusty Russell
2009-11-10  2:42     ` [Qemu-devel] " Rusty Russell
2009-11-10 14:36     ` Anthony Liguori
2009-11-10 14:36     ` Anthony Liguori
2009-11-10 14:36       ` Anthony Liguori
2009-11-10 14:43       ` Avi Kivity
2009-11-10 14:43       ` Avi Kivity
2009-11-10 14:43         ` Avi Kivity
2009-11-10 14:58         ` Anthony Liguori
2009-11-10 14:58         ` Anthony Liguori
2009-11-10 14:58           ` Anthony Liguori
2009-11-11  9:24           ` Jamie Lokier
2009-11-11  9:24           ` Jamie Lokier
2009-11-11  9:24             ` Jamie Lokier
2009-11-11 10:12             ` Daniel P. Berrange
2009-11-11 10:12             ` Daniel P. Berrange
2009-11-11 10:12               ` Daniel P. Berrange
2009-11-11 13:26               ` Adam Litke
2009-11-11 13:26               ` Adam Litke
2009-11-11 13:26                 ` Adam Litke
2009-11-11 15:00                 ` Avi Kivity
2009-11-11 15:00                   ` Avi Kivity
2009-11-11 15:00                 ` Avi Kivity
2009-11-10 23:59       ` Rusty Russell
2009-11-10 23:59         ` Rusty Russell
2009-11-10 23:59       ` Rusty Russell
2009-11-10 21:52     ` Anthony Liguori
2009-11-10 21:52       ` [Qemu-devel] " Anthony Liguori
2009-11-11  0:02       ` Rusty Russell
2009-11-11  0:02       ` Rusty Russell
2009-11-11  0:02         ` [Qemu-devel] " Rusty Russell
2009-11-11  0:07         ` Anthony Liguori
2009-11-11  0:07           ` [Qemu-devel] " Anthony Liguori
2009-11-11  2:43           ` Rusty Russell [this message]
2009-11-11  2:43             ` Rusty Russell
2009-11-11 15:08             ` Adam Litke
2009-11-11 15:08               ` [Qemu-devel] " Adam Litke
2009-11-12  2:29               ` Rusty Russell
2009-11-12  2:29                 ` [Qemu-devel] " Rusty Russell
2009-11-12  2:29               ` Rusty Russell
2009-11-11 15:08             ` Adam Litke
2009-11-11  2:43           ` Rusty Russell
2009-11-11  0:07         ` Anthony Liguori
2009-11-10 21:52     ` Anthony Liguori
2009-11-10  2:42   ` [Qemu-devel] " Rusty Russell
2009-11-09 19:00 ` [Qemu-devel] [RFC] virtio: Report new guest memory statistics pertinent to memory ballooning (V2) Jamie Lokier
2009-11-09 19:16   ` Adam Litke
2009-11-09 21:15   ` Anthony Liguori
2009-11-10 13:23     ` Jamie Lokier
2009-11-09 19:01 ` Jamie Lokier
2009-11-09 19:23   ` Adam Litke
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2009-11-05 22:50 [Qemu-devel] [RFC] virtio: Report new guest memory statistics pertinent to memory ballooning Adam Litke
2009-11-05 23:02 ` [Qemu-devel] virtio: Add memory statistics reporting to the balloon driver Adam Litke
2009-11-05 23:39   ` Anthony Liguori

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