Recent spam

Recent spam

[Manuel Krause]

Hi!

Whats up with these rows of spam mails I receive from reiserfs list the 
last days/weeks? Does this list spam itself now or what new anti-spam 
algorithm did I miss?


Thanks,

  Manuel

Re: Recent spam

[Marc-Christian Petersen]

On Monday 02 June 2003 08:29, Manuel Krause wrote:

Hi Manuel,

> Whats up with these rows of spam mails I receive from reiserfs list the
> last days/weeks? Does this list spam itself now or what new anti-spam
> algorithm did I miss?
my offer to fix this for $25 is still open ;)

ciao, Marc

Re: Recent spam

[Soeren Sonnenburg]

On Mon, 2003-06-02 at 08:33, Marc-Christian Petersen wrote:
> On Monday 02 June 2003 08:29, Manuel Krause wrote:
> 
> Hi Manuel,
> 
> > Whats up with these rows of spam mails I receive from reiserfs list the
> > last days/weeks? Does this list spam itself now or what new anti-spam
> > algorithm did I miss?
> my offer to fix this for $25 is still open ;)

I don't know about you, but I did not see any spam not tagged as spam.

May I suggest to use procmail to filter/remove that kind of stuff and
stop annoying the list with these useless replies ?

===snip===
#
#reiserfs-list
:0
* ^list-post: <mailto:reiserfs-list@namesys\.com>
* ^X-Spam-Flag: YES
$MAILDIR/.archive.spam
===snip===


Soeren.

Re: Recent spam

[Russell Coker]

On Mon, 2 Jun 2003 17:24, Soeren Sonnenburg wrote:
> I don't know about you, but I did not see any spam not tagged as spam.
>
> May I suggest to use procmail to filter/remove that kind of stuff and
> stop annoying the list with these useless replies ?

I am getting some spam through this list that is not tagged as spam.

I have configured my mail server to reject messages tagged as spam, when I get 
spam I report it to spamcop.  As the list server removes all the relevant 
headers SpamCop regards the list server as a spam machine and blocks it 
occasionally.

Eventually either the list server will be fixed or due to SpamCop I'll be 
unsubscribed.

-- 
http://www.coker.com.au/selinux/   My NSA Security Enhanced Linux packages
http://www.coker.com.au/bonnie++/  Bonnie++ hard drive benchmark
http://www.coker.com.au/postal/    Postal SMTP/POP benchmark
http://www.coker.com.au/~russell/  My home page

Re: Recent spam

[Hans Reiser]

Russell Coker wrote:

>On Mon, 2 Jun 2003 17:24, Soeren Sonnenburg wrote:
>  
>
>>I don't know about you, but I did not see any spam not tagged as spam.
>>
>>May I suggest to use procmail to filter/remove that kind of stuff and
>>stop annoying the list with these useless replies ?
>>    
>>
>
>I am getting some spam through this list that is not tagged as spam.
>
>I have configured my mail server to reject messages tagged as spam, when I get 
>spam I report it to spamcop.  As the list server removes all the relevant 
>headers SpamCop regards the list server as a spam machine and blocks it 
>occasionally.
>
>Eventually either the list server will be fixed or due to SpamCop I'll be 
>unsubscribed.
>
>  
>
This is a bit inconsiderate of you, don't you think?  Why don't you just 
unsubscribe?  I have a sysadmin with too many tasks to get them done, 
and he doesn't need his time wasted with such crap as dealing with spamcop.

-- 
Hans

Re: Recent spam

[Chris Mason]

On Thu, 2003-06-05 at 09:26, Hans Reiser wrote:

> >
> This is a bit inconsiderate of you, don't you think?  Why don't you just 
> unsubscribe?  I have a sysadmin with too many tasks to get them done, 
> and he doesn't need his time wasted with such crap as dealing with spamcop.

Honestly Hans, this has come up a bunch of times over the last few
months.  The reiserfs mail server setup doesn't play nicely with
automated spam reporting tools, and many people other than Russell use
them.

There have been a ton of suggestions on ways to make things better, and
they range from 5 minute tasks to complex ones.  They've largely been
ignored.  I'd really rather not lose valuable contributors to the list
over something as stupid as spam.

-chris

Re: Recent spam

[Hans Reiser]

Chris Mason wrote:

>On Thu, 2003-06-05 at 09:26, Hans Reiser wrote:
>
>  
>
>>This is a bit inconsiderate of you, don't you think?  Why don't you just 
>>unsubscribe?  I have a sysadmin with too many tasks to get them done, 
>>and he doesn't need his time wasted with such crap as dealing with spamcop.
>>    
>>
>
>Honestly Hans, this has come up a bunch of times over the last few
>months.  The reiserfs mail server setup doesn't play nicely with
>automated spam reporting tools, and many people other than Russell use
>them.
>
>There have been a ton of suggestions on ways to make things better, and
>they range from 5 minute tasks to complex ones.  They've largely been
>ignored.  I'd really rather not lose valuable contributors to the list
>over something as stupid as spam.
>
>-chris
>
>
>
>
>  
>
flx is moving our webserver and mailserver, and once he has done that I 
will most likely pay the $25.  Unfortunately he is distracted by such 
tasks as talking Intel into giving us a 4-way Itanium and splicing a 
cable for it and installing it in its own room because it is noisy, 
talking AMD into giving us some sort of opteron, installing Nina's 
laptop, helping with the problems due to trying to use gcc 3.3, fixing 
the powerbutton on my computer, installing a newer version of xmms that 
can play CDDA out a USB sound device properly, replacing the fans on Mr. 
Demidov's computer so that it can run with the case on it, etc.  Giving 
him the additional task of dealing with spamcop is just asinine.

-- 
Hans

Re: Recent spam

[Chris Mason]

On Thu, 2003-06-05 at 10:39, Hans Reiser wrote:

> flx is moving our webserver and mailserver, and once he has done that I 
> will most likely pay the $25.  Unfortunately he is distracted by such 
> tasks as talking Intel into giving us a 4-way Itanium and splicing a 
> cable for it and installing it in its own room because it is noisy, 
> talking AMD into giving us some sort of opteron, installing Nina's 
> laptop, helping with the problems due to trying to use gcc 3.3, fixing 
> the powerbutton on my computer, installing a newer version of xmms that 
> can play CDDA out a USB sound device properly, replacing the fans on Mr. 
> Demidov's computer so that it can run with the case on it, etc.  Giving 
> him the additional task of dealing with spamcop is just asinine.

I understand completely ;-)  My point is that your last message blamed
anyone using an automated spam reporting tool, when the real problem is
on the reiserfs list side.  It's fine if you have other things above it
on the todo list, but please understand where the real cause is.

-chris

Re: Recent spam

[Russell Coker]

On Fri, 6 Jun 2003 00:39, Hans Reiser wrote:
> Demidov's computer so that it can run with the case on it, etc.  Giving
> him the additional task of dealing with spamcop is just asinine.

I hope you realise that you are proving the administrators of SpamCop to be 
correct.  They believe that SPAM will only be accepted as a problem and dealt 
with if reacted to forcefully.  Other services have nicer methods and don't 
get the results.

After this issue has been discussed many times the only positive response I 
have received from you has been after using SpamCop.  I conclude that I am 
correct to use it.

No-one has asked the administrators of your mailing list to do anything 
special, just to refrain from doing unusual things.

If you want a quick temporary fix then change the list address.  The 
subscribers will be able to deal with it well enough (it's happened before) 
but the spammers will take some time to catch up.

-- 
http://www.coker.com.au/selinux/   My NSA Security Enhanced Linux packages
http://www.coker.com.au/bonnie++/  Bonnie++ hard drive benchmark
http://www.coker.com.au/postal/    Postal SMTP/POP benchmark
http://www.coker.com.au/~russell/  My home page

Re: Recent spam

[Hans Reiser]

Russell Coker wrote:

>On Fri, 6 Jun 2003 00:39, Hans Reiser wrote:
>  
>
>>Demidov's computer so that it can run with the case on it, etc.  Giving
>>him the additional task of dealing with spamcop is just asinine.
>>    
>>
>
>I hope you realise that you are proving the administrators of SpamCop to be 
>correct.  They believe that SPAM will only be accepted as a problem and dealt 
>with if reacted to forcefully.  Other services have nicer methods and don't 
>get the results.
>
>After this issue has been discussed many times the only positive response I 
>have received from you has been after using SpamCop.  I conclude that I am 
>correct to use it.
>
>No-one has asked the administrators of your mailing list to do anything 
>special, just to refrain from doing unusual things.
>
>If you want a quick temporary fix then change the list address.  The 
>subscribers will be able to deal with it well enough (it's happened before) 
>but the spammers will take some time to catch up.
>
>  
>
Remove Russell from the list.

-- 
Hans

Re: Recent spam

[Soeren Sonnenburg]

On Fri, 2003-06-06 at 10:08, Hans Reiser wrote:
> Russell Coker wrote:
> 
> >On Fri, 6 Jun 2003 00:39, Hans Reiser wrote:
> >  
> >
> >>Demidov's computer so that it can run with the case on it, etc.  Giving
> >>him the additional task of dealing with spamcop is just asinine.
> >>    
> >>
> >
> >I hope you realise that you are proving the administrators of SpamCop to be 
> >correct.  They believe that SPAM will only be accepted as a problem and dealt 
> >with if reacted to forcefully.  Other services have nicer methods and don't 
> >get the results.
> >
> >After this issue has been discussed many times the only positive response I 
> >have received from you has been after using SpamCop.  I conclude that I am 
> >correct to use it.
> >
> >No-one has asked the administrators of your mailing list to do anything 
> >special, just to refrain from doing unusual things.
> >
> >If you want a quick temporary fix then change the list address.  The 
> >subscribers will be able to deal with it well enough (it's happened before) 
> >but the spammers will take some time to catch up.
> >
> >  
> >
> Remove Russell from the list.

In that case remove me too.

Soeren.

Re: Recent spam

[Hans Reiser]

Soeren Sonnenburg wrote:

>On Fri, 2003-06-06 at 10:08, Hans Reiser wrote:
>  
>
>>Russell Coker wrote:
>>
>>    
>>
>>>On Fri, 6 Jun 2003 00:39, Hans Reiser wrote:
>>> 
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>>Demidov's computer so that it can run with the case on it, etc.  Giving
>>>>him the additional task of dealing with spamcop is just asinine.
>>>>   
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>I hope you realise that you are proving the administrators of SpamCop to be 
>>>correct.  They believe that SPAM will only be accepted as a problem and dealt 
>>>with if reacted to forcefully.  Other services have nicer methods and don't 
>>>get the results.
>>>
>>>After this issue has been discussed many times the only positive response I 
>>>have received from you has been after using SpamCop.  I conclude that I am 
>>>correct to use it.
>>>
>>>No-one has asked the administrators of your mailing list to do anything 
>>>special, just to refrain from doing unusual things.
>>>
>>>If you want a quick temporary fix then change the list address.  The 
>>>subscribers will be able to deal with it well enough (it's happened before) 
>>>but the spammers will take some time to catch up.
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>Remove Russell from the list.
>>    
>>
>
>In that case remove me too.
>
>Soeren.
>
>
>
>
>  
>
Happy to remove you and anyone else who lists us in the spamcop database.

-- 
Hans

Re: Recent spam

[Oleg Drokin]

Hello!

On Fri, Jun 06, 2003 at 06:33:11PM +0400, Hans Reiser wrote:

> Happy to remove you and anyone else who lists us in the spamcop database.

It is impossible to list someone in spamcop database.
Instead you just forward mails that contains spam there, and based on the headers
the spamcop software decides what was the injection point of spam and adds this point
to its database.

Bye,
    Oleg

Re: Recent spam

[Russell Coker]

On Sat, 7 Jun 2003 00:38, Oleg Drokin wrote:
> On Fri, Jun 06, 2003 at 06:33:11PM +0400, Hans Reiser wrote:
> > Happy to remove you and anyone else who lists us in the spamcop database.
>
> It is impossible to list someone in spamcop database.
> Instead you just forward mails that contains spam there, and based on the
> headers the spamcop software decides what was the injection point of spam
> and adds this point to its database.

Also it should be noted that SpamCop is designed to conceal the identity of 
the person reporting the spam to deny the spammer the opportunity of 
retaliating.

So when someone reports ReiserFS mailing list spam to SpamCop the only easy of 
identifying them is if they admit to it.

Of course there are various technical measures that you can invoke, such as 
mangling the message headers on a per-user basis.


Is there anyone else who would like to start a spam-free mailing list for 
discussing ReiserFS?

-- 
http://www.coker.com.au/selinux/   My NSA Security Enhanced Linux packages
http://www.coker.com.au/bonnie++/  Bonnie++ hard drive benchmark
http://www.coker.com.au/postal/    Postal SMTP/POP benchmark
http://www.coker.com.au/~russell/  My home page

Re: Recent spam

[Joachim Bremer]

Hans,

should I reply "Happy to remove you from the list of known persons" ??

Simply dropping messages which exceeds a certain limit isn't a problem.
Leaving mail headers "as-it" isn't a problem as well.

So: what is _YOUR_ problem? People asking to fix a known problem which
are well known get an answer which they neither expect nor which they
should expect. So as many other people asking for: simply leave the headers
intact and as an option simply drop anything which is already marked
as SPAM.

Thanks

Joachim

-- 
Simply speaking for me....

> Soeren Sonnenburg wrote:
> 
> >On Fri, 2003-06-06 at 10:08, Hans Reiser wrote:
> >  
> >
> >>Russell Coker wrote:
> >>
> >>    
> >>
> >>>On Fri, 6 Jun 2003 00:39, Hans Reiser wrote:
> >>> 
> >>>
> >>>      
> >>>
> >>>>Demidov's computer so that it can run with the case on it, etc.  Giving
> >>>>him the additional task of dealing with spamcop is just asinine.
> >>>>   
> >>>>
> >>>>        
> >>>>
> >>>I hope you realise that you are proving the administrators of SpamCop to be 
> >>>correct.  They believe that SPAM will only be accepted as a problem and dealt 
> >>>with if reacted to forcefully.  Other services have nicer methods and don't 
> >>>get the results.
> >>>
> >>>After this issue has been discussed many times the only positive response I 
> >>>have received from you has been after using SpamCop.  I conclude that I am 
> >>>correct to use it.
> >>>
> >>>No-one has asked the administrators of your mailing list to do anything 
> >>>special, just to refrain from doing unusual things.
> >>>
> >>>If you want a quick temporary fix then change the list address.  The 
> >>>subscribers will be able to deal with it well enough (it's happened before) 
> >>>but the spammers will take some time to catch up.
> >>>
> >>> 
> >>>
> >>>      
> >>>
> >>Remove Russell from the list.
> >>    
> >>
> >
> >In that case remove me too.
> >
> >Soeren.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >  
> >
> Happy to remove you and anyone else who lists us in the spamcop database.
> 
> -- 
> Hans
> 
> 
> 
> **********************************************************************
> This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
> intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they
> are addressed. If you have received this email in error please delete
> it or contact NTSA@qxl.com if you need further assistance
> 
> This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by
> MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses.
> 
> www.qxlricardo.com
> **********************************************************************
> 

Re: Recent spam

[Hans Reiser]

My sysadmin was told to do all of these things requested by the list a 
long time ago.  He has failed to do so.  So what?  It is the least 
important thing on his list, and he is out sick.  Russell has made it 
important enough that it will be done instead of my dealing with a 
potential sponsor.  I don't have time for this crap.

Please consider further discussions of spam off-topic for this mailing 
list.  If you disagree, get a life and unsubscribe.

-- 
Hans

Re: Recent spam

[Hans Reiser]

Let me be less restricting of your freedom of speech.  Instead of 
considering it off-topic, please just start the subject line with 
[SPAM], and that way I don't have to read about it.

-- 
Hans

Re: Recent spam

[Chris Mason]

On Fri, 2003-06-06 at 04:08, Hans Reiser wrote:

> >No-one has asked the administrators of your mailing list to do anything 
> >special, just to refrain from doing unusual things.
> >
> >If you want a quick temporary fix then change the list address.  The 
> >subscribers will be able to deal with it well enough (it's happened before) 
> >but the spammers will take some time to catch up.
> >
> >  
> >
> Remove Russell from the list.

Hans, a short review:

1) For many months people (not just Russell) have been asking namesys to
fix various simple problems with the mail server configuration.  These
problems make anyone using automatic spam reporting tools report namesys
as spammers.

2) Somehow, various spam databases think namesys is a spammer.

3) namesys has not fixed the listserver.

4) namesys gets mad about being in the spam database.

You can have #3 or #4, but not both.  Either fix the list, or ignore the
problem, but don't leave the list broken and get angry when you end up
in a spammer database.  It doesn't really matter how you got there, the
fault lies with namesys, not the list users.

If all the time and energy spent talking about spam on the reiserfs list
actually went into fixing the list, this conversation would have ended a
long time ago.

-chris

Re: Recent spam

[Hubert Mantel]

Hi,

On Fri, Jun 06, Hans Reiser wrote:

> Remove Russell from the list.

This is ridiculous.

Manually removing one person from the mailinglist needs about the same 
amount of "work" as fixing the spamassassin configuration.

> Hans
                                                                  -o)
    Hubert Mantel              Goodbye, dots...                   /\\
                                                                 _\_v
                          319 mails received today.

Re: Recent spam

[Kristine Diana Daniels]

On Fri, Jun 06, 2003 at 12:08:34PM +0400, Hans Reiser wrote:
> Remove Russell from the list.

One must wonder about software written by a group lead by someone
that isn't capable of removing someone from a mailing list on his own.
One must wonder about a list admin that continues to allow
submissions from people not subscribed to the list, when that's
most of the reason for the SPAM.

-- 
Kristine Daniels
"History will repeat itself/if you don't think about yourself"
 -- arte.fact's 'When Francis speaks'

Re: Recent spam

[Chris Mason]

On Fri, 2003-06-06 at 11:30, Kristine Diana Daniels wrote:
> On Fri, Jun 06, 2003 at 12:08:34PM +0400, Hans Reiser wrote:
> > Remove Russell from the list.
> 
> One must wonder about software written by a group lead by someone
> that isn't capable of removing someone from a mailing list on his own.

Heh, list admin is best done by the list admin.  Regardless of how easy
it is, the whole point to paying someone to admin the list (among flx's
other tasks) is so that a group leader can do other things.

> One must wonder about a list admin that continues to allow
> submissions from people not subscribed to the list, when that's
> most of the reason for the SPAM.

It's just one possible way to limit the spam.  It's also a social
decision about how you want the list to be used.  Note that almost no
spam gets through on this list that hasn't been tagged as spam, they
just need to either delete it or not munge the headers so it appears to
have come from namesys.

-chris

Re: Recent spam

[Chris Dukes]

On Thu, Jun 05, 2003 at 05:26:34PM +0400, Hans Reiser wrote:
> This is a bit inconsiderate of you, don't you think?  Why don't you just 
> unsubscribe?  I have a sysadmin with too many tasks to get them done, 
> and he doesn't need his time wasted with such crap as dealing with spamcop.

Hans,
<rant>
What is inconsiderate is continueing to allow ALL spam to pass through
such that if anyone tries to report it to shut down the spammer,
the only origination information is namesys.

What is inconsiderate is taking the time to flag some of these spams
as spam, but not taking the time to forward them off to a bucket for
approval or disposal (And multiple people can sort through the spam,
so don't blame your overworked sysadmin.
</rant>
<suggestion>
If namesys' admin is unable or unwilling to get the namesys mailing
lists to cease being anonymous injection points for SPAM, perhaps
you should contract out the management of the mailing list.
Considering past incidents (like the mailloop), it may solve problems
beyond SPAM.
</suggestion>
<morerant>
It isn't like namesys has a clean reputation with spam anyways.
A significant number are people are annoyed with the advertising
that has been added to the reiserfs tools.  The spam on the list
only furthers the perception that namesys approves, endorses, and
actively engages in unsolicited advertising.
</morerant>
-- 
Chris Dukes
I tried being reasonable once--I didn't like it.

Re: Recent spam

[Chris Mason]

On Thu, 2003-06-05 at 10:57, Chris Dukes wrote:
> On Thu, Jun 05, 2003 at 05:26:34PM +0400, Hans Reiser wrote:
> > This is a bit inconsiderate of you, don't you think?  Why don't you just 
> > unsubscribe?  I have a sysadmin with too many tasks to get them done, 
> > and he doesn't need his time wasted with such crap as dealing with spamcop.
> 
> Hans,
> <rant>
> What is inconsiderate is continueing to allow ALL spam to pass through
> such that if anyone tries to report it to shut down the spammer,
> the only origination information is namesys.
> 
> What is inconsiderate is taking the time to flag some of these spams
> as spam, but not taking the time to forward them off to a bucket for
> approval or disposal (And multiple people can sort through the spam,
> so don't blame your overworked sysadmin.

Heh, time spent moderating messages would either be by Hans' sysadmin or
his coders.  I'd just as soon see the tagged messages deleted.

> </rant>
> <suggestion>
> If namesys' admin is unable or unwilling to get the namesys mailing
> lists to cease being anonymous injection points for SPAM, perhaps
> you should contract out the management of the mailing list.
> Considering past incidents (like the mailloop), it may solve problems
> beyond SPAM.
> </suggestion>
> <morerant>
> It isn't like namesys has a clean reputation with spam anyways.
> A significant number are people are annoyed with the advertising
> that has been added to the reiserfs tools.  The spam on the list
> only furthers the perception that namesys approves, endorses, and
> actively engages in unsolicited advertising.

These two are unrelated.  SPAM is a fact of life on the internet, list
admins have a responsibility to try and make things better for list
subscribers, how well namesys meets is directly related to the quality
of the list and its content.

Regardless of if you like the reiserfs tools messages (I never have),
those ads are not unsolicited.  He's not driving down the road with a
loudspeaker, you ran mkreiserfs because you wanted to use the product. 
Once again, it is Hans' responsibility to keep things reasonable if he
actually wants to keep his users, and our responsibility to remember
bills have to get paid, even in the free software world.

-chris

Re: Recent spam

[Nikita Danilov]

Chris Mason writes:

[...]

 > 
 > These two are unrelated.  SPAM is a fact of life on the internet, list
 > admins have a responsibility to try and make things better for list
 > subscribers, how well namesys meets is directly related to the quality
 > of the list and its content.

Probably irrelevant, but I have spam assassin installed on my machine,
and I see exactly zero spam coming from reiserfs list.

 > 

[...]

 > 
 > -chris
 > 

Nikita.

 > 

Re: Recent spam

[Chris Mason]

On Thu, 2003-06-05 at 11:26, Nikita Danilov wrote:
> Chris Mason writes:
> 
> [...]
> 
>  > 
>  > These two are unrelated.  SPAM is a fact of life on the internet, list
>  > admins have a responsibility to try and make things better for list
>  > subscribers, how well namesys meets is directly related to the quality
>  > of the list and its content.
> 
> Probably irrelevant, but I have spam assassin installed on my machine,
> and I see exactly zero spam coming from reiserfs list.

Same here (bogofilter), either one would have filtered the spam with or
without the tagging on the reiserfs list side.  The problem is how the
headers are stripped from the spam that is tagged by the mailing list. 
People that use automated spam reporting tools end up blaming namesys
instead of the actual sender.

-chris

Re: Recent spam

[Ragnar Kjørstad]

On Thu, Jun 05, 2003 at 11:11:53AM -0400, Chris Mason wrote:
> On Thu, 2003-06-05 at 10:57, Chris Dukes wrote:
> > On Thu, Jun 05, 2003 at 05:26:34PM +0400, Hans Reiser wrote:
> > What is inconsiderate is taking the time to flag some of these spams
> > as spam, but not taking the time to forward them off to a bucket for
> > approval or disposal (And multiple people can sort through the spam,
> > so don't blame your overworked sysadmin.
> 
> Heh, time spent moderating messages would either be by Hans' sysadmin or
> his coders.  I'd just as soon see the tagged messages deleted.

I'm sure a lot of subscribers to the list would volunteer to
approve/disaprove postings marked as possible spam. I should wouldn't
mind using a few minutes a week if it would help.

> > <suggestion>
> > If namesys' admin is unable or unwilling to get the namesys mailing
> > lists to cease being anonymous injection points for SPAM, perhaps
> > you should contract out the management of the mailing list.
> > Considering past incidents (like the mailloop), it may solve problems
> > beyond SPAM.
> > </suggestion>

Moving the list to sourceforge or another simular service may be useful
to reduce the amount of systemadministration.



-- 
Ragnar Kjørstad
Zet.no

Re: Recent spam

[Oleg Drokin]

Hello!

On Thu, Jun 05, 2003 at 05:29:48PM +0200, Ragnar Kj?rstad wrote:

> Moving the list to sourceforge or another simular service may be useful
> to reduce the amount of systemadministration.

They do not do good spamfiltering as well which is easily visible in
e.g. user-mode-linux-* lists.
Besides, they do not accept mail from me claiming that they cannot resolve my hostname
(yes, I have valid A record for my hostname).

Bye,
    Oleg

Re: Recent spam

[Hans Reiser]

Chris Dukes wrote:

>On Thu, Jun 05, 2003 at 05:26:34PM +0400, Hans Reiser wrote:
>  
>
>>This is a bit inconsiderate of you, don't you think?  Why don't you just 
>>unsubscribe?  I have a sysadmin with too many tasks to get them done, 
>>and he doesn't need his time wasted with such crap as dealing with spamcop.
>>    
>>
>
>Hans,
><rant>
>What is inconsiderate is continueing to allow ALL spam to pass through
>such that if anyone tries to report it to shut down the spammer,
>the only origination information is namesys.
>
>What is inconsiderate is taking the time to flag some of these spams
>as spam, but not taking the time to forward them off to a bucket for
>approval or disposal (And multiple people can sort through the spam,
>so don't blame your overworked sysadmin.
>
He has been told to do these things.  They are in his queue.  He gets me 
a 4-way Itanium for free to test Reiser4 SMP performance on and I don't 
whine excessively about spam management software not being taken care of 
yet.

></rant>
><suggestion>
>If namesys' admin is unable or unwilling to get the namesys mailing
>lists to cease being anonymous injection points for SPAM, perhaps
>you should contract out the management of the mailing list.
>Considering past incidents (like the mailloop), it may solve problems
>beyond SPAM.
></suggestion>
><morerant>
>It isn't like namesys has a clean reputation with spam anyways.
>A significant number are people are annoyed with the advertising
>that has been added to the reiserfs tools. 
>
Oh this is total crap.  Go learn the difference in definition between a 
credit and an ad.  When SuSE removes the SuSE from the box of software 
that it mostly did not write, and replaces it with a big GNU, then come 
talk to me about modesty.  For SuSE to have the chutzpah to complain 
that we credited those who made ReiserFS possible when it slaps its name 
everywhere across code it wrote only a tiny fraction of is really ballsy. 

We credit those who contribute.  Distros naturally don't like that 
because they prefer to get all the mentions.  

> The spam on the list
>only furthers the perception that namesys approves, endorses, and
>actively engages in unsolicited advertising.
>
Go get rid of that SuSE splash screen and we'll talk some more.  I 
suggest a nice photo of a gnu instead.

></morerant>
>  
>

Despite the (really) trivia above, SuSE is a great company....

-- 
Hans

Re: Recent spam

[Hans Reiser]

Oh dear, Chris Mason, I owe you an apology, I thought the mail from 
Chris Dukes was from you.  Sorry.

-- 
Hans

Re: Recent spam

[Chris Mason]

On Thu, 2003-06-05 at 11:25, Hans Reiser wrote:
> Oh dear, Chris Mason, I owe you an apology, I thought the mail from 
> Chris Dukes was from you.  Sorry.

Good thing I read a further down in the thread before hitting send ;-) 
Life is too short to waste it making flames about spam, please fix the
list when you can.

-chris

Re: OT: Recent spam

[Asheesh Laroia]

I have a filter in procmail that precedes my spam filtering.  It goes like
this:

#----------------------------------------------------------------------
# eliminate duplicate messages.
#----------------------------------------------------------------------
:0 Wh: msgid.lock
| formail -D 32768 msgid.cache

This removes mails with duplicate Message-ID headers.  I think I got it
from the 'pgen' suite of Procmail tools.

It discards messages with duplicate Message-IDs, which has removed some
~25 spams or so from reiserfs-list for me in the past day or two.  The
first one hits my CaughtBySpamAssassin mail folder, and the other ones
just disappear.  It's quite nice.

Sorry for the off-topic discussion, Namesys.

-- Asheesh.

-- 
Q:	How many surrealists does it take to change a light bulb?
A:	Two, one to hold the giraffe, and the other to fill the bathtub
	with brightly colored machine tools.

	[Surrealist jokes just aren't my cup of fur.  Ed.]

On Mon, 2 Jun 2003, Marc-Christian Petersen wrote:

> On Monday 02 June 2003 08:29, Manuel Krause wrote:
>
> Hi Manuel,
>
> > Whats up with these rows of spam mails I receive from reiserfs list the
> > last days/weeks? Does this list spam itself now or what new anti-spam
> > algorithm did I miss?
> my offer to fix this for $25 is still open ;)
>
> ciao, Marc

Re: OT: Recent spam

[Chris Mason]

We've had about a half dozen of these threads now, could someone at
namesys please configure the list server to either delete spam entirely
or store into a moderator approved folder for review.

Pretty please?
chris

Re: OT: Recent spam

[Chris Dukes]

On Mon, Jun 02, 2003 at 09:06:27AM -0400, Chris Mason wrote:
> We've had about a half dozen of these threads now, could someone at
> namesys please configure the list server to either delete spam entirely
> or store into a moderator approved folder for review.

And either way, STOP STRIPPING HEADERS.

Eventually annoyed people will start reporting namesys to its upstream
provider as a spammer.  Because the headers are stripped one can assert
that namesys *IS* the injection point.

-- 
Chris Dukes
I tried being reasonable once--I didn't like it.

Re: OT: Recent spam

[Pierre Abbat]

On Monday 02 June 2003 09:38, Chris Dukes wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 02, 2003 at 09:06:27AM -0400, Chris Mason wrote:
> > We've had about a half dozen of these threads now, could someone at
> > namesys please configure the list server to either delete spam entirely
> > or store into a moderator approved folder for review.
>
> And either way, STOP STRIPPING HEADERS.
>
> Eventually annoyed people will start reporting namesys to its upstream
> provider as a spammer.  Because the headers are stripped one can assert
> that namesys *IS* the injection point.

And on top of that, all Received: headers *must* be passed through whether SA 
catches the message or not. All mailing list programs that remove Received: 
headers are broken.

phma
-- 
.i toljundi do .ibabo mi'afra tu'a do
.ibabo damba do .ibabo do jinga
.icu'u la ma'atman.

Re: OT: Recent spam

[Matthias Andree]

Chris Dukes <pakrat@www.uk.linux.org> writes:

> Eventually annoyed people will start reporting namesys to its upstream
> provider as a spammer.  Because the headers are stripped one can assert
> that namesys *IS* the injection point.

It is, because the mail is received, exploded and personalized (VERP)
for all list recipients and sent out, so it is the injection point.

-- 
Matthias Andree

Re: Recent spam

[Alexander Lyamin]

Mon, Jun 02, 2003 at 08:29:18AM +0200, Manuel Krause wrote:
> Hi!
> 
> Whats up with these rows of spam mails I receive from reiserfs list the 
> last days/weeks? Does this list spam itself now or what new anti-spam 
> algorithm did I miss?
> 

Its my fault.
I never recognised that Spamassassin changed format for  "X-Spam-Flag" field,

its seems like I fixed it now.


-- 
everything zen
lex lyamin

Re: Recent spam

[John Dalbec]

Alexander Lyamin wrote:
> Mon, Jun 02, 2003 at 08:29:18AM +0200, Manuel Krause wrote:
> 
>>Hi!
>>
>>Whats up with these rows of spam mails I receive from reiserfs list the 
>>last days/weeks? Does this list spam itself now or what new anti-spam 
>>algorithm did I miss?
>>
> 
> 
> Its my fault.
> I never recognised that Spamassassin changed format for  "X-Spam-Flag" field,
> 
> its seems like I fixed it now.
> 
> 

BTW it really shouldn't matter to your processing what the X-Spam-Flag 
header says ("Yes" or "YES" or "kltpzyxm").  If it's present at all the 
message is spam and should be treated as such.
John

Re: Recent spam

[Alexander Lyamin]

Mon, Jun 02, 2003 at 08:29:18AM +0200, Manuel Krause wrote:
> Hi!
> 
> Whats up with these rows of spam mails I receive from reiserfs list the 
> last days/weeks? Does this list spam itself now or what new anti-spam 
> algorithm did I miss?

along with line-noise, could someone give a hint how to teach EZMLM
to  dont mangle Recieved: headers ? 

-- 
everything zen
lex lyamin

Re: Recent spam

[Christophe Saout]

Am Son, 2003-06-08 um 21.13 schrieb Alexander Lyamin:

> > Whats up with these rows of spam mails I receive from reiserfs list the 
> > last days/weeks? Does this list spam itself now or what new anti-spam 
> > algorithm did I miss?
> 
> along with line-noise, could someone give a hint how to teach EZMLM
> to  dont mangle Recieved: headers ? 

Well, just a little googleing and grepping in the sources...

it turns out that ezmlm-send needs to get -r as parameter (as opposed to
the default -R that tells it to strip the Received headers on outgoing
messages).

So edit the blablabla/reiserfs-list/editor file and add a -r to the line
with ezmlm-send. If you use ezmlm-idx you will have to add it to the lines
with ezmlm-gate, ezmlm-store and and ezmlm-moderate instead (the last one
should be found in the file blablabla/moderate, if moderation is actived).
The are calling ezmlm-send and pass through the parameter.

So this *really* should be a fairly small change. BTW: Funny discussion
(well, funny to read, but not so funny at all...)

-- 
Christophe Saout <christophe@saout.de>

Re: Recent spam

[Manuel Krause]

On 06/02/2003 08:29 AM, Manuel Krause wrote:
> Hi!
> 
> Whats up with these rows of spam mails I receive from reiserfs list the 
> last days/weeks? Does this list spam itself now or what new anti-spam 
> algorithm did I miss?
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
>  Manuel
> 

Hi, all! Dear Mr. Reiser!

I want to apologize for having brought up this topic again and having 
caused that many "line-noise" (Alexander Lyamin).

Originally I only wanted to know why I received multiplicated spam from 
one spammers address via this list and if this would go on. And the 
first replies seemed to explain it to me. So I didn't need to worry more 
than before. Nothing more, nothing less I wanted.


The following replies only showed one main thing to adjust 
@reiserfs-list: That this list has still a serious problem with spam. 
This fact is best proved by the quantity of reoccurrence of these spam 
related subjects and the increasing quality(!) of hints against this by 
our lists people.

This problem will not be solved by the hint "some people could 
unsubscribe from reiserfs-list, if they don't like spam or do remind 
someone @namesys about this problem" (Hans Reiser in very short). There 
have been some many reasonable mails telling why many of these people 
should = must stay on here as they greatly help development and 
debugging. If namesys' admin has too much work, hire me or someone else 
additionally. Don't spam me with something like "sponsored(!) machines 
need to be installed before" and "admin is overworked", that happens 
everywhere.

The point, dear Mr. Hans Reiser, is that contributions in 
"freedom-of-speech" regarding this poor topic would be trashed (as is: 
"should be marked as [SPAM]" for Mr. Hans Reiser) is some steps too 
aggressive to me and a tone of speech I would not like @reiserfs-list in 
future. Mr. Rumsfeld ("Old Europe...") is a senseful diplomate compared 
to you. And he isn't a diplomate at least, we all know.


Hey, we don't fight a war on here! We're working together on here for 
ReiserFS-vX.Yz to be a powerful filesystem. Also to unite many people 
that believe in that goal through previous good experience and the 
"corporate safety" (you get help on any ReiserFS problem, if you didn't 
kill the FS yourself). ReiserFS-list should be bug-free, too.


For heavens sake, best regards,

Manuel

Re: Recent spam

[Carl-Daniel Hailfinger]

Just wondering...
The e-mail headers mention spamassassin twice. The first time it's version
2.43-cvs, the second time it's 2.50-cvs. Could this be the cause why some
mails tagged as spam went through?


Carl-Daniel

Re: Recent spam

[The Amazing Dragon]

> From: Manuel Krause <manuelkrause@netscape.net>
> Whats up with these rows of spam mails I receive from reiserfs list the 
> last days/weeks? Does this list spam itself now or what new anti-spam 
> algorithm did I miss?

I'd vote for it being time to start rejecting rather than merely marking
spam. At the least if the score is double the mark threshold it should be
safe (I haven't noted any errors yet though).

The recent ones actually look like a loop given the quantity...  (I'd
*hope* the spammers weren't stupid enough to think that eight copies of
the spam would be more effective than one)


-- 
(\___(\___(\______          --=> 8-) EHM <=--          ______/)___/)___/)
 \   (    |         EHeM@cs.pdx.edu      PGP 8881EF59         |    )   /
  \_  \   |  _____  -O #include <stddisclaimer.h> O-   _____  |   /  _/
    \___\_|_/82 04 A1 3C C7 B1 37 2A*E3 6E 84 DA 97 4C 40 E6\_|_/___/

Re: Recent spam

[The Amazing Dragon]

> From: Hans Reiser <reiser@namesys.com>
> Chris Mason wrote:
> >On Thu, 2003-06-05 at 09:26, Hans Reiser wrote:
> >>This is a bit inconsiderate of you, don't you think?  Why don't you just 
> >>unsubscribe?  I have a sysadmin with too many tasks to get them done, 
> >>and he doesn't need his time wasted with such crap as dealing with spamcop.
> >
> >Honestly Hans, this has come up a bunch of times over the last few
> >months.  The reiserfs mail server setup doesn't play nicely with
> >automated spam reporting tools, and many people other than Russell use
> >them.
> >
> >There have been a ton of suggestions on ways to make things better, and
> >they range from 5 minute tasks to complex ones.  They've largely been
> >ignored.  I'd really rather not lose valuable contributors to the list
> >over something as stupid as spam.

> flx is moving our webserver and mailserver, and once he has done that I 
> will most likely pay the $25.  Unfortunately he is distracted by such 
> tasks as talking Intel into giving us a 4-way Itanium and splicing a 
> cable for it and installing it in its own room because it is noisy, 
> talking AMD into giving us some sort of opteron, installing Nina's 
> laptop, helping with the problems due to trying to use gcc 3.3, fixing 
> the powerbutton on my computer, installing a newer version of xmms that 
> can play CDDA out a USB sound device properly, replacing the fans on Mr. 
> Demidov's computer so that it can run with the case on it, etc.  Giving 
> him the additional task of dealing with spamcop is just asinine.

In other words it is time for you to hire more help? Setting SpamAssassin
to block rather than mark is a pretty simple change; setting the list
server to not strip Recieved lines is also a simple change. This has
passed the point of merely being a minor problem. Though getting $3K
pieces of hardware to test on is good, avoiding losing $3K due to all
your mail being blackholed is more important. Okay, getting a $100K piece
of hardware out of Intel might be a higher priority, but you're getting
into the danger zone where this will turn into real money being lost.


-- 
(\___(\___(\______          --=> 8-) EHM <=--          ______/)___/)___/)
 \   (    |         EHeM@cs.pdx.edu      PGP 8881EF59         |    )   /
  \_  \   |  _____  -O #include <stddisclaimer.h> O-   _____  |   /  _/
    \___\_|_/82 04 A1 3C C7 B1 37 2A*E3 6E 84 DA 97 4C 40 E6\_|_/___/

Recent spam...

[Eric Sandeen]

Seems that linux-xfs@oss.sgi.com got subscribed to a yahoo spam group 
somehow... we're working on it.

-Eric