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* RV: [LARTC] Re: My 1st BW Manager
@ 2003-04-19 10:10 GoMi
  2003-04-19 12:01 ` Stef Coene
                   ` (11 more replies)
  0 siblings, 12 replies; 13+ messages in thread
From: GoMi @ 2003-04-19 10:10 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: lartc

 
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Thats exactly the problem i have been trying to solve for the last 2 months. Bandwith sharing works great, but when it comes to shape DAP programs, by any reason it fails, not granting the bw to other services. No idea why.

Stef, if you are interested in working around this problem, maybe we could meet in a chat room, and you can login to my box and see what happens, interested?

Original Message:
- - -----------------
From: Stef Coene stef.coene@docum.org
On Friday 18 April 2003 19:21, rio@martin.mu wrote:
>I'm not sure, but I think you use htb.init.  And this is not the
>htb.init
>mailing list.  This is the LARTC lists to discuss topics like shaping, 
>advanced routing and other network stuff.
>But answering on your question : 
>You have to create 1 class attached to the root qdisc and add the 4 other 
>classes to that class (don't ask me how you have to do that with
>htb.init).  
>Can you also check that the filters are working and the traffic is placed
>in the class where it belongs?

Oh sorry about that, below is what command i inserted:

tc qdisc del dev eth0 root
tc qdisc add dev eth0 root handle 1 htb default 30
tc class add dev eth0 parent 1: classid 1:2 htb rate 120Kbit burst 15k tc class add dev eth0 parent 1:2 classid 1:11 htb rate 6Kbit ceil 120Kbit burst 15k tc qdisc add dev eth0 parent 1:11 handle 11 sfq perturb 10 tc filter add dev eth0 parent 1:0 protocol ip prio 100 u32 match ip dst 192.168.1.1 classid 1:11 tc class add dev eth0 parent 1:2 classid 1:12 htb rate 6Kbit ceil 120Kbit burst 15k tc qdisc add dev eth0 parent 1:12 handle 12 sfq perturb 10 tc filter add dev eth0 parent 1:0 protocol ip prio 100 u32 match ip dst 192.168.1.2 classid 1:12 tc class add dev eth0 parent 1:2 classid 1:13 htb rate 6Kbit ceil 120Kbit burst 15k tc qdisc add dev eth0 parent 1:13 handle 13 sfq perturb 10 tc filter add dev eth0 parent 1:0 protocol ip prio 100 u32 match ip dst 192.168.1.3 classid 1:13 tc class add dev eth0 parent 1:2 classid 1:14 htb rate 6Kbit ceil 120Kbit burst 15k tc qdisc add dev eth0 parent 1:14 handle 14 sfq perturb 10 tc filter add dev eth0 parent 1:0 protocol ip prio 100 u32 match ip dst 192.168.1.4 classid 1:14

I ve tried those, and it worked, all hosts able to borrow bandwidth from parent class (120Kbit), but when any host start to download with DAP (download manager) that can consume high bandwidth, it can borrow 120Kbit from parent class and the speed wont decrease as the other hosts up and ask for more bandwidth.

Any idea why ?

Regards,
Rio Martin.

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread

* Re: RV: [LARTC] Re: My 1st BW Manager
  2003-04-19 10:10 RV: [LARTC] Re: My 1st BW Manager GoMi
@ 2003-04-19 12:01 ` Stef Coene
  2003-04-19 13:53 ` GoMi
                   ` (10 subsequent siblings)
  11 siblings, 0 replies; 13+ messages in thread
From: Stef Coene @ 2003-04-19 12:01 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: lartc

On Saturday 19 April 2003 12:10, GoMi wrote:
> Thats exactly the problem i have been trying to solve for the last 2
> months. Bandwith sharing works great, but when it comes to shape DAP
> programs, by any reason it fails, not granting the bw to other services. No
> idea why.
>
> Stef, if you are interested in working around this problem, maybe we could
> meet in a chat room, and you can login to my box and see what happens,
> interested?
Yes, but not now.  But I can check it out myself.  
How do this DAP works?  Do they open parallel tcp sessions the same server?  
And if they do, how many?  And the other services that suffers from these DAP 
streams, is that also download (bulk traffic) or interactive traffic (ssh, 
telnet, dns)?  
And I suppose the DAP traffic and the other traffic belongs to different 
classes.

Stef

-- 

stef.coene@docum.org
 "Using Linux as bandwidth manager"
     http://www.docum.org/
     #lartc @ irc.oftc.net

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http://mailman.ds9a.nl/mailman/listinfo/lartc HOWTO: http://lartc.org/

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread

* RE: RV: [LARTC] Re: My 1st BW Manager
  2003-04-19 10:10 RV: [LARTC] Re: My 1st BW Manager GoMi
  2003-04-19 12:01 ` Stef Coene
@ 2003-04-19 13:53 ` GoMi
  2003-04-19 14:36 ` Stef Coene
                   ` (9 subsequent siblings)
  11 siblings, 0 replies; 13+ messages in thread
From: GoMi @ 2003-04-19 13:53 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: lartc

 
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Lets talk about KaZZa,E-Donkey,and IMESH. I have absolutely no idea about how they work, but i do split traffic with two classes, one fore interactive, and a second one for the rest acting as a default class. The problem is that when these programs start working, the interactive services do not have the bw granted.
- -----Mensaje original-----
De: lartc-admin@mailman.ds9a.nl [mailto:lartc-admin@mailman.ds9a.nl] En nombre de Stef Coene
Enviado el: sábado, 19 de abril de 2003 14:01
Para: GoMi; lartc@mailman.ds9a.nl
Asunto: Re: RV: [LARTC] Re: My 1st BW Manager


On Saturday 19 April 2003 12:10, GoMi wrote:
> Thats exactly the problem i have been trying to solve for the last 2 
> months. Bandwith sharing works great, but when it comes to shape DAP 
> programs, by any reason it fails, not granting the bw to other 
> services. No idea why.
>
> Stef, if you are interested in working around this problem, maybe we 
> could meet in a chat room, and you can login to my box and see what 
> happens, interested?
Yes, but not now.  But I can check it out myself.  
How do this DAP works?  Do they open parallel tcp sessions the same server?  
And if they do, how many?  And the other services that suffers from these DAP 
streams, is that also download (bulk traffic) or interactive traffic (ssh, 
telnet, dns)?  
And I suppose the DAP traffic and the other traffic belongs to different 
classes.

Stef

- -- 

stef.coene@docum.org
 "Using Linux as bandwidth manager"
     http://www.docum.org/
     #lartc @ irc.oftc.net

_______________________________________________
LARTC mailing list / LARTC@mailman.ds9a.nl http://mailman.ds9a.nl/mailman/listinfo/lartc HOWTO: http://lartc.org/

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http://mailman.ds9a.nl/mailman/listinfo/lartc HOWTO: http://lartc.org/

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread

* Re: RV: [LARTC] Re: My 1st BW Manager
  2003-04-19 10:10 RV: [LARTC] Re: My 1st BW Manager GoMi
  2003-04-19 12:01 ` Stef Coene
  2003-04-19 13:53 ` GoMi
@ 2003-04-19 14:36 ` Stef Coene
  2003-04-19 15:19 ` rio
                   ` (8 subsequent siblings)
  11 siblings, 0 replies; 13+ messages in thread
From: Stef Coene @ 2003-04-19 14:36 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: lartc

On Saturday 19 April 2003 15:53, GoMi wrote:
> Lets talk about KaZZa,E-Donkey,and IMESH. I have absolutely no idea about
> how they work, but i do split traffic with two classes, one fore
> interactive, and a second one for the rest acting as a default class. The
> problem is that when these programs start working, the interactive services
> do not have the bw granted. 
I somewhere read that kazaa sometimes uses ACK packages with payloads.  So if 
you want to put ACK packages in a high priority class, you also have to check 
the length of the package.
I will do some tests myself, but not before monday.  I will keep you informed 
about the results.

Stef

-- 

stef.coene@docum.org
 "Using Linux as bandwidth manager"
     http://www.docum.org/
     #lartc @ irc.oftc.net

_______________________________________________
LARTC mailing list / LARTC@mailman.ds9a.nl
http://mailman.ds9a.nl/mailman/listinfo/lartc HOWTO: http://lartc.org/

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread

* Re: RV: [LARTC] Re: My 1st BW Manager
  2003-04-19 10:10 RV: [LARTC] Re: My 1st BW Manager GoMi
                   ` (2 preceding siblings ...)
  2003-04-19 14:36 ` Stef Coene
@ 2003-04-19 15:19 ` rio
  2003-04-20 21:51 ` Stef Coene
                   ` (7 subsequent siblings)
  11 siblings, 0 replies; 13+ messages in thread
From: rio @ 2003-04-19 15:19 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: lartc

Original Message:
-----------------
From: Stef Coene stef.coene@docum.org
On Saturday 19 April 2003 12:10, GoMi wrote:
>> Stef, if you are interested in working around this problem, maybe we
>could
>> meet in a chat room, and you can login to my box and see what happens,
>> interested?
>Yes, but not now.  But I can check it out myself.  
>How do this DAP works?  Do they open parallel tcp sessions the same
>server?  

Hi Stef, Are u sure havent heard DAP before ? this is as same as prozilla
under linux.

>And if they do, how many?  And the other services that suffers from these
>DAP 
>streams, is that also download (bulk traffic) or interactive traffic (ssh, 
>telnet, dns)?  
>And I suppose the DAP traffic and the other traffic belongs to different 
>classes.

Maximum 10 connections to the same destination server. If they open 1 DAP.
Sadly my users often download with 3 - 5 DAP. So when i sniff their
connection, the results of tcp connection arrount 30 tcp connection to
remote host port 80.

DAP is badly sucks my total bandwidth. So all other traffic would be very
slow and didnt get fair bandwidth as i located..

Regards,
Rio Martin.






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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread

* Re: RV: [LARTC] Re: My 1st BW Manager
  2003-04-19 10:10 RV: [LARTC] Re: My 1st BW Manager GoMi
                   ` (3 preceding siblings ...)
  2003-04-19 15:19 ` rio
@ 2003-04-20 21:51 ` Stef Coene
  2003-04-21  1:59 ` rio
                   ` (6 subsequent siblings)
  11 siblings, 0 replies; 13+ messages in thread
From: Stef Coene @ 2003-04-20 21:51 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: lartc

On Saturday 19 April 2003 17:19, rio@martin.mu wrote:
> On Saturday 19 April 2003 12:10, GoMi wrote:
> Hi Stef, Are u sure havent heard DAP before ? this is as same as prozilla
> under linux.
My average downloads are 400kbyte/s so I don't need a download accelerator to 
speed up downloads :)

> >And if they do, how many?  And the other services that suffers from these
> >DAP
> >streams, is that also download (bulk traffic) or interactive traffic (ssh,
> >telnet, dns)?
> >And I suppose the DAP traffic and the other traffic belongs to different
> >classes.
>
> Maximum 10 connections to the same destination server. If they open 1 DAP.
> Sadly my users often download with 3 - 5 DAP. So when i sniff their
> connection, the results of tcp connection arrount 30 tcp connection to
> remote host port 80.
So it's just parallel tcp sessions to the same hosts.  But if you put the 
traffic from each host in 1 class, each class (and so each host) has the same 
right for bandwidth.  

> DAP is badly sucks my total bandwidth. So all other traffic would be very
> slow and didnt get fair bandwidth as i located..

Stef

-- 

stef.coene@docum.org
 "Using Linux as bandwidth manager"
     http://www.docum.org/
     #lartc @ irc.oftc.net

_______________________________________________
LARTC mailing list / LARTC@mailman.ds9a.nl
http://mailman.ds9a.nl/mailman/listinfo/lartc HOWTO: http://lartc.org/

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread

* Re: RV: [LARTC] Re: My 1st BW Manager
  2003-04-19 10:10 RV: [LARTC] Re: My 1st BW Manager GoMi
                   ` (4 preceding siblings ...)
  2003-04-20 21:51 ` Stef Coene
@ 2003-04-21  1:59 ` rio
  2003-04-21  2:30 ` Martin A. Brown
                   ` (5 subsequent siblings)
  11 siblings, 0 replies; 13+ messages in thread
From: rio @ 2003-04-21  1:59 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: lartc

Original Message:
-----------------
From: Stef Coene stef.coene@docum.org
On Saturday 19 April 2003 17:19, rio@martin.mu wrote:
>> On Saturday 19 April 2003 12:10, GoMi wrote:
>> Sadly my users often download with 3 - 5 DAP. So when i sniff their
>> connection, the results of tcp connection arrount 30 tcp connection to
>> remote host port 80.
>So it's just parallel tcp sessions to the same hosts.  But if you put the 
>traffic from each host in 1 class, each class (and so each host) has the
>same right for bandwidth.  

I give you real situation in my network:

 eth0[PUBLIC.IP]
LINUX - BW - Manager
 eth1[192.168.1.10]
      |
      |
4 hosts: 192.168.1.1 - 192.168.1.4

My total bandwidth is only 128Kbit
All NICs are Realtek 10Mbit

So the solution as you offered is to put each class 128Kbit/4 = 32Kbit?
If that so, then it would be good if i use CBQ qdisc, not HTB. I want to
use HTB because HTB burstable.

Please suggest..

Regards,
Rio Martin.






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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread

* Re: RV: [LARTC] Re: My 1st BW Manager
  2003-04-19 10:10 RV: [LARTC] Re: My 1st BW Manager GoMi
                   ` (5 preceding siblings ...)
  2003-04-21  1:59 ` rio
@ 2003-04-21  2:30 ` Martin A. Brown
  2003-04-21  3:12 ` rio
                   ` (4 subsequent siblings)
  11 siblings, 0 replies; 13+ messages in thread
From: Martin A. Brown @ 2003-04-21  2:30 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: lartc

Rio,

 : I give you real situation in my network:
 :
 :  eth0[PUBLIC.IP]
 : LINUX - BW - Manager
 :  eth1[192.168.1.10]
 :       |
 :       |
 : 4 hosts: 192.168.1.1 - 192.168.1.4
 :
 : My total bandwidth is only 128Kbit
 : All NICs are Realtek 10Mbit
 :
 : So the solution as you offered is to put each class 128Kbit/4 = 32Kbit?
 : If that so, then it would be good if i use CBQ qdisc, not HTB. I want to
 : use HTB because HTB burstable.

I would suggest the following configuration (as Stef has proposed):

 128kbit ceil 128kbit    +---- rate 32kbit ceil 128kbit <-- 192.168.1.1
         |               |
         +---------------+---- rate 32kbit ceil 128kbit <-- 192.168.1.2
                         |
                         +---- rate 32kbit ceil 128kbit <-- 192.168.1.3
                         |
                         +---- rate 32kbit ceil 128kbit <-- 192.168.1.4

Now, you have four different classes, one for each IP.  Each IP is
guaranteed 128kbit.  Each IP can consume up to 128kbit, if there isn't
competition with other classes.

You should use the qdisc with which you are most comfortable--both CBQ and
HTB can do this for you.  For reference, it seems that the experience on
this list leans toward HTB, though.

-Martin

-- 
Martin A. Brown --- SecurePipe, Inc. --- mabrown@securepipe.com

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread

* Re: RV: [LARTC] Re: My 1st BW Manager
  2003-04-19 10:10 RV: [LARTC] Re: My 1st BW Manager GoMi
                   ` (6 preceding siblings ...)
  2003-04-21  2:30 ` Martin A. Brown
@ 2003-04-21  3:12 ` rio
  2003-04-21  9:12 ` Stef Coene
                   ` (3 subsequent siblings)
  11 siblings, 0 replies; 13+ messages in thread
From: rio @ 2003-04-21  3:12 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: lartc

Original Message:
-----------------
From: Martin A. Brown mabrown-lartc@securepipe.com
>I would suggest the following configuration (as Stef has proposed):
> 128kbit ceil 128kbit    +---- rate 32kbit ceil 128kbit <-- 192.168.1.1
>         |               |
>         +---------------+---- rate 32kbit ceil 128kbit <-- 192.168.1.2
>                         |
>                         +---- rate 32kbit ceil 128kbit <-- 192.168.1.3
>                         |
>                         +---- rate 32kbit ceil 128kbit <-- 192.168.1.4
>Now, you have four different classes, one for each IP.  Each IP is
>guaranteed 128kbit.  Each IP can consume up to 128kbit, if there isn't
>competition with other classes.

Dear Martin,
I ve implemented before just exactly as you have described above, but the
main problem was when some host, 192.168.1.4 for example, use DAP that open
about 10 tcp streams, that host will get 128Kbit maximum when the other
hosts in idle connection. But as soon as other host up and request for
bandwidth, 192.168.1.4 wont decrease the speed of download into 32Kbit. I
wonder why this is happened ? 

Regards,
Rio Martin.

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread

* Re: RV: [LARTC] Re: My 1st BW Manager
  2003-04-19 10:10 RV: [LARTC] Re: My 1st BW Manager GoMi
                   ` (7 preceding siblings ...)
  2003-04-21  3:12 ` rio
@ 2003-04-21  9:12 ` Stef Coene
  2003-04-21  9:15 ` Stef Coene
                   ` (2 subsequent siblings)
  11 siblings, 0 replies; 13+ messages in thread
From: Stef Coene @ 2003-04-21  9:12 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: lartc

On Monday 21 April 2003 04:30, Martin A. Brown wrote:
> Rio,
>
>  : I give you real situation in my network:
>  :
>  :  eth0[PUBLIC.IP]
>  : LINUX - BW - Manager
>  :  eth1[192.168.1.10]
>  :
>  :
>  : 4 hosts: 192.168.1.1 - 192.168.1.4
>  :
>  : My total bandwidth is only 128Kbit
>  : All NICs are Realtek 10Mbit
>  :
>  : So the solution as you offered is to put each class 128Kbit/4 = 32Kbit?
>  : If that so, then it would be good if i use CBQ qdisc, not HTB. I want to
>  : use HTB because HTB burstable.
>
> I would suggest the following configuration (as Stef has proposed):
>
>  128kbit ceil 128kbit    +---- rate 32kbit ceil 128kbit <-- 192.168.1.1
>
>          +---------------+---- rate 32kbit ceil 128kbit <-- 192.168.1.2
>
>                          +---- rate 32kbit ceil 128kbit <-- 192.168.1.3
>
>                          +---- rate 32kbit ceil 128kbit <-- 192.168.1.4
>
> Now, you have four different classes, one for each IP.  Each IP is
> guaranteed 128kbit.  
Each IP Is guaranteed 32 kbit, not 128 kbit.

> Each IP can consume up to 128kbit, if there isn't
> competition with other classes.
>
> You should use the qdisc with which you are most comfortable--both CBQ and
> HTB can do this for you.  For reference, it seems that the experience on
> this list leans toward HTB, though.

Stef

-- 

stef.coene@docum.org
 "Using Linux as bandwidth manager"
     http://www.docum.org/
     #lartc @ irc.oftc.net

_______________________________________________
LARTC mailing list / LARTC@mailman.ds9a.nl
http://mailman.ds9a.nl/mailman/listinfo/lartc HOWTO: http://lartc.org/

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread

* Re: RV: [LARTC] Re: My 1st BW Manager
  2003-04-19 10:10 RV: [LARTC] Re: My 1st BW Manager GoMi
                   ` (8 preceding siblings ...)
  2003-04-21  9:12 ` Stef Coene
@ 2003-04-21  9:15 ` Stef Coene
  2003-04-21  9:24 ` rio
  2003-04-21  9:28 ` Stef Coene
  11 siblings, 0 replies; 13+ messages in thread
From: Stef Coene @ 2003-04-21  9:15 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: lartc

On Monday 21 April 2003 05:12, rio@martin.mu wrote:
> Original Message:
> -----------------
> From: Martin A. Brown mabrown-lartc@securepipe.com
>
> >I would suggest the following configuration (as Stef has proposed):
> > 128kbit ceil 128kbit    +---- rate 32kbit ceil 128kbit <-- 192.168.1.1
> >
> >         +---------------+---- rate 32kbit ceil 128kbit <-- 192.168.1.2
> >
> >                         +---- rate 32kbit ceil 128kbit <-- 192.168.1.3
> >
> >                         +---- rate 32kbit ceil 128kbit <-- 192.168.1.4
> >Now, you have four different classes, one for each IP.  Each IP is
> >guaranteed 128kbit.  Each IP can consume up to 128kbit, if there isn't
> >competition with other classes.
>
> Dear Martin,
> I ve implemented before just exactly as you have described above, but the
> main problem was when some host, 192.168.1.4 for example, use DAP that open
> about 10 tcp streams, that host will get 128Kbit maximum when the other
> hosts in idle connection. But as soon as other host up and request for
> bandwidth, 192.168.1.4 wont decrease the speed of download into 32Kbit. I
> wonder why this is happened ?
If you have 2 active userx, each user should get 50% so 64 kbit.
I don't understand why this is not happening.  I created 2 class with each 50% 
of the bandwidth.  I had 5 tcp streams in 1 class so that class uses 100% of 
the bandwidth.  The moment I started a tcp stream in the other class, that 
class got 50% like expected.  So it works in my test setup.


Are you sure your filters are working?  And how do you monitor the classes?  

Stef

-- 

stef.coene@docum.org
 "Using Linux as bandwidth manager"
     http://www.docum.org/
     #lartc @ irc.oftc.net

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http://mailman.ds9a.nl/mailman/listinfo/lartc HOWTO: http://lartc.org/

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread

* Re: RV: [LARTC] Re: My 1st BW Manager
  2003-04-19 10:10 RV: [LARTC] Re: My 1st BW Manager GoMi
                   ` (9 preceding siblings ...)
  2003-04-21  9:15 ` Stef Coene
@ 2003-04-21  9:24 ` rio
  2003-04-21  9:28 ` Stef Coene
  11 siblings, 0 replies; 13+ messages in thread
From: rio @ 2003-04-21  9:24 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: lartc

Dear Stef,
Perhaps you could share your tc command so i could learn whats wrong with
my shaper.

Thank you.
Regards,
Rio Martin.


Original Message:
-----------------
From: Stef Coene stef.coene@docum.org
If you have 2 active userx, each user should get 50% so 64 kbit.
I don't understand why this is not happening.  I created 2 class with each
50% 
of the bandwidth.  I had 5 tcp streams in 1 class so that class uses 100%
of 
the bandwidth.  The moment I started a tcp stream in the other class, that 
class got 50% like expected.  So it works in my test setup.


Are you sure your filters are working?  And how do you monitor the classes?


Stef

-- 

stef.coene@docum.org
 "Using Linux as bandwidth manager"
     http://www.docum.org/
     #lartc @ irc.oftc.net



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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread

* Re: RV: [LARTC] Re: My 1st BW Manager
  2003-04-19 10:10 RV: [LARTC] Re: My 1st BW Manager GoMi
                   ` (10 preceding siblings ...)
  2003-04-21  9:24 ` rio
@ 2003-04-21  9:28 ` Stef Coene
  11 siblings, 0 replies; 13+ messages in thread
From: Stef Coene @ 2003-04-21  9:28 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: lartc

On Monday 21 April 2003 11:24, rio@martin.mu wrote:
> Dear Stef,
> Perhaps you could share your tc command so i could learn whats wrong with
> my shaper.
All I have can be found on www.docum.org
Or you can try http:/home.docum.org/qos/ so you can create your own commands.

Stef

-- 

stef.coene@docum.org
 "Using Linux as bandwidth manager"
     http://www.docum.org/
     #lartc @ irc.oftc.net

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread

end of thread, other threads:[~2003-04-21  9:28 UTC | newest]

Thread overview: 13+ messages (download: mbox.gz follow: Atom feed
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2003-04-19 10:10 RV: [LARTC] Re: My 1st BW Manager GoMi
2003-04-19 12:01 ` Stef Coene
2003-04-19 13:53 ` GoMi
2003-04-19 14:36 ` Stef Coene
2003-04-19 15:19 ` rio
2003-04-20 21:51 ` Stef Coene
2003-04-21  1:59 ` rio
2003-04-21  2:30 ` Martin A. Brown
2003-04-21  3:12 ` rio
2003-04-21  9:12 ` Stef Coene
2003-04-21  9:15 ` Stef Coene
2003-04-21  9:24 ` rio
2003-04-21  9:28 ` Stef Coene

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