Hard Hat Linux (fwd)

Hard Hat Linux (fwd)

[Ariel Faigon]

Hi,

I'm not sure if I should feel amused or saddened by this
email.  I'm not a lawyer, just curious of what would you
be doing in reponse.

Note that:
	The facts this email presents are inaccurate:

	1) We don't have any "product" on www.linux.sgi.com
	   just a free source distribution.
	2) His claim is ignoring the fact that "Linux" is
	   a trademark of Linus Torvalds which may invalidate
	   any claim to its derivatives by another party.
	3) We use "Hard Hat 5.1" as a humorous way to say
	   it is somewhat unstable release of Red Hat 5.1
	   in a casual way in one title.
	4) We never use the term "Hard Hat Linux".

I guess the question is whether our very innocent and casual
use of the phrase "Hard Hat" in one web page and without any
product connotation constitutes trademark infringement.


Forwarded message:
:From maurice@harddata.com  Sat Dec 12 12:23:42 1998
:Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981212132336.00a0ecb0@209.207.211.2>
:X-Sender: mhilariu@209.207.211.2
:X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32)
:Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 13:23:36 -0700
:To: adevries@engsoc.carleton.ca
:From: Maurice Hilarius <maurice@harddata.com>
:Subject: Hard Hat Linux
:Cc: ariel@sgi.com
:Mime-Version: 1.0
:Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
:
:Good day Gentlemen.
:
:One of our customers pointed us to your webpage:
:http://www.linux.sgi.com/manhattan/
:
:We wish to inform you that the names "Hard Hat" and "Hard Hat Linux" are
:copyrighted names and registered trademarks of Hard Data Ltd., Of Edmonton,
:Alberta, Canada.
:
:We ask that you please use another name for your project, as we can not
:permit this use of the brand name and trademark "Hard Hat Linux".
:We suspect that this usage was probably not designed to harm our tradmark,
:but we still can not permit it to be used, especially without our express
:permission.
:
:If there are any questions please contact Maurice Hilarius of Hard Data
:Ltd. at the address and/or telphone numbers listed in the signature (below).
:
:Seasons Greetings.
:
:Best regards,
:
:  Maurice W. Hilarius                   Telephone: 01-403-414-9319
:  Hard Data Ltd.                      **FAX:       01-403-456-1510
:  11060 - 166 Avenue                    email:maurice@harddata.com
:  Edmonton, AB, Canada  - T5X 1Y3       http://www.harddata.com
:  
:


-- 
Peace, Ariel

Hard Hat Linux (fwd)

[Ariel Faigon]

Hi,

I'm not sure if I should feel amused or saddened by this
email.  I'm not a lawyer, just curious of what would you
be doing in reponse.

Note that:
	The facts this email presents are inaccurate:

	1) We don't have any "product" on www.linux.sgi.com
	   just a free source distribution.
	2) His claim is ignoring the fact that "Linux" is
	   a trademark of Linus Torvalds which may invalidate
	   any claim to its derivatives by another party.
	3) We use "Hard Hat 5.1" as a humorous way to say
	   it is somewhat unstable release of Red Hat 5.1
	   in a casual way in one title.
	4) We never use the term "Hard Hat Linux".

I guess the question is whether our very innocent and casual
use of the phrase "Hard Hat" in one web page and without any
product connotation constitutes trademark infringement.


Forwarded message:
:From maurice@harddata.com  Sat Dec 12 12:23:42 1998
:Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981212132336.00a0ecb0@209.207.211.2>
:X-Sender: mhilariu@209.207.211.2
:X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32)
:Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 13:23:36 -0700
:To: adevries@engsoc.carleton.ca
:From: Maurice Hilarius <maurice@harddata.com>
:Subject: Hard Hat Linux
:Cc: ariel@sgi.com
:Mime-Version: 1.0
:Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
:
:Good day Gentlemen.
:
:One of our customers pointed us to your webpage:
:http://www.linux.sgi.com/manhattan/
:
:We wish to inform you that the names "Hard Hat" and "Hard Hat Linux" are
:copyrighted names and registered trademarks of Hard Data Ltd., Of Edmonton,
:Alberta, Canada.
:
:We ask that you please use another name for your project, as we can not
:permit this use of the brand name and trademark "Hard Hat Linux".
:We suspect that this usage was probably not designed to harm our tradmark,
:but we still can not permit it to be used, especially without our express
:permission.
:
:If there are any questions please contact Maurice Hilarius of Hard Data
:Ltd. at the address and/or telphone numbers listed in the signature (below).
:
:Seasons Greetings.
:
:Best regards,
:
:  Maurice W. Hilarius                   Telephone: 01-403-414-9319
:  Hard Data Ltd.                      **FAX:       01-403-456-1510
:  11060 - 166 Avenue                    email:maurice@harddata.com
:  Edmonton, AB, Canada  - T5X 1Y3       http://www.harddata.com
:  
:


-- 
Peace, Ariel

Re: Hard Hat Linux (fwd)

[Mike Shaver]

Ariel Faigon wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I'm not sure if I should feel amused or saddened by this
> email.  I'm not a lawyer, just curious of what would you
> be doing in reponse.
> 
> Note that:
>         The facts this email presents are inaccurate:
> 
>         1) We don't have any "product" on www.linux.sgi.com
>            just a free source distribution.
>         2) His claim is ignoring the fact that "Linux" is
>            a trademark of Linus Torvalds which may invalidate
>            any claim to its derivatives by another party.
>         3) We use "Hard Hat 5.1" as a humorous way to say
>            it is somewhat unstable release of Red Hat 5.1
>            in a casual way in one title.
>         4) We never use the term "Hard Hat Linux".

I believe the installer uses the term `Hard Hat Linux', even on the
RH-sold Rough Cuts CD.  We should really rebuild that properly, and I
know Alex was talking about doing just that.  puffin?

[shaver@zamboni sbin]$ strings install2 | grep Hard\ Hat
Hard Hat Linux, portions (C) 1998 Red Hat Software

Mike
(now, back to efs_read_inode_direct)

-- 
1991.86 1829.26

Re: Hard Hat Linux (fwd)

[Joseph Michaud]

Hmm.  I don't find any such trademarks on a search at the
US Patent Office (http://www.uspto.gov/tmdb/index.html).

Ask him what the trademark registration number is, and
where it is registered...

Joe

On Dec 13,  2:53am, Ariel Faigon wrote:
> 
> I'm not sure if I should feel amused or saddened by this
> email.  I'm not a lawyer, just curious of what would you
> be doing in reponse.
> 
> Note that:
> 	The facts this email presents are inaccurate:
> 
> 	1) We don't have any "product" on www.linux.sgi.com
> 	   just a free source distribution.
> 	2) His claim is ignoring the fact that "Linux" is
> 	   a trademark of Linus Torvalds which may invalidate
> 	   any claim to its derivatives by another party.
> 	3) We use "Hard Hat 5.1" as a humorous way to say
> 	   it is somewhat unstable release of Red Hat 5.1
> 	   in a casual way in one title.
> 	4) We never use the term "Hard Hat Linux".
> 
> I guess the question is whether our very innocent and casual
> use of the phrase "Hard Hat" in one web page and without any
> product connotation constitutes trademark infringement.
> 
> 
> Forwarded message:
> :From maurice@harddata.com  Sat Dec 12 12:23:42 1998
> :Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981212132336.00a0ecb0@209.207.211.2>
> :X-Sender: mhilariu@209.207.211.2
> :X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32)
> :Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 13:23:36 -0700
> :To: adevries@engsoc.carleton.ca
> :From: Maurice Hilarius <maurice@harddata.com>
> :Subject: Hard Hat Linux
> :Cc: ariel@sgi.com
> :Mime-Version: 1.0
> :Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> :
> :Good day Gentlemen.
> :
> :One of our customers pointed us to your webpage:
> :http://www.linux.sgi.com/manhattan/
> :
> :We wish to inform you that the names "Hard Hat" and "Hard Hat Linux" are
> :copyrighted names and registered trademarks of Hard Data Ltd., Of Edmonton,
> :Alberta, Canada.
> :
> :We ask that you please use another name for your project, as we can not
> :permit this use of the brand name and trademark "Hard Hat Linux".
> :We suspect that this usage was probably not designed to harm our tradmark,
> :but we still can not permit it to be used, especially without our express
> :permission.
> :
> :If there are any questions please contact Maurice Hilarius of Hard Data
> :Ltd. at the address and/or telphone numbers listed in the signature (below).
> :
> :Seasons Greetings.
> :
> :Best regards,
> :
> :  Maurice W. Hilarius                   Telephone: 01-403-414-9319
> :  Hard Data Ltd.                      **FAX:       01-403-456-1510
> :  11060 - 166 Avenue                    email:maurice@harddata.com
> :  Edmonton, AB, Canada  - T5X 1Y3       http://www.harddata.com
> :  
> :
> 
> 
> -- 
> Peace, Ariel
> 
>-- End of excerpt from Ariel Faigon



-- 

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Joseph Michaud                Silicon Graphics - Applications Consulting
jmichaud@boston.sgi.com       x483-2255                   (978) 562-4800

Re: Hard Hat Linux (fwd)

[Joseph Michaud]

Hmm.  I don't find any such trademarks on a search at the
US Patent Office (http://www.uspto.gov/tmdb/index.html).

Ask him what the trademark registration number is, and
where it is registered...

Joe

On Dec 13,  2:53am, Ariel Faigon wrote:
> 
> I'm not sure if I should feel amused or saddened by this
> email.  I'm not a lawyer, just curious of what would you
> be doing in reponse.
> 
> Note that:
> 	The facts this email presents are inaccurate:
> 
> 	1) We don't have any "product" on www.linux.sgi.com
> 	   just a free source distribution.
> 	2) His claim is ignoring the fact that "Linux" is
> 	   a trademark of Linus Torvalds which may invalidate
> 	   any claim to its derivatives by another party.
> 	3) We use "Hard Hat 5.1" as a humorous way to say
> 	   it is somewhat unstable release of Red Hat 5.1
> 	   in a casual way in one title.
> 	4) We never use the term "Hard Hat Linux".
> 
> I guess the question is whether our very innocent and casual
> use of the phrase "Hard Hat" in one web page and without any
> product connotation constitutes trademark infringement.
> 
> 
> Forwarded message:
> :From maurice@harddata.com  Sat Dec 12 12:23:42 1998
> :Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981212132336.00a0ecb0@209.207.211.2>
> :X-Sender: mhilariu@209.207.211.2
> :X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32)
> :Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 13:23:36 -0700
> :To: adevries@engsoc.carleton.ca
> :From: Maurice Hilarius <maurice@harddata.com>
> :Subject: Hard Hat Linux
> :Cc: ariel@sgi.com
> :Mime-Version: 1.0
> :Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> :
> :Good day Gentlemen.
> :
> :One of our customers pointed us to your webpage:
> :http://www.linux.sgi.com/manhattan/
> :
> :We wish to inform you that the names "Hard Hat" and "Hard Hat Linux" are
> :copyrighted names and registered trademarks of Hard Data Ltd., Of Edmonton,
> :Alberta, Canada.
> :
> :We ask that you please use another name for your project, as we can not
> :permit this use of the brand name and trademark "Hard Hat Linux".
> :We suspect that this usage was probably not designed to harm our tradmark,
> :but we still can not permit it to be used, especially without our express
> :permission.
> :
> :If there are any questions please contact Maurice Hilarius of Hard Data
> :Ltd. at the address and/or telphone numbers listed in the signature (below).
> :
> :Seasons Greetings.
> :
> :Best regards,
> :
> :  Maurice W. Hilarius                   Telephone: 01-403-414-9319
> :  Hard Data Ltd.                      **FAX:       01-403-456-1510
> :  11060 - 166 Avenue                    email:maurice@harddata.com
> :  Edmonton, AB, Canada  - T5X 1Y3       http://www.harddata.com
> :  
> :
> 
> 
> -- 
> Peace, Ariel
> 
>-- End of excerpt from Ariel Faigon



-- 

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Joseph Michaud                Silicon Graphics - Applications Consulting
jmichaud@boston.sgi.com       x483-2255                   (978) 562-4800

Re: Hard Hat Linux (fwd)

[William Fisher]

> 
> 
> Hmm.  I don't find any such trademarks on a search at the
> US Patent Office (http://www.uspto.gov/tmdb/index.html).
> 
> Ask him what the trademark registration number is, and
> where it is registered...
> 
> Joe
> 
	Did you try Thomson and Thomson? The US Government
	trademarks don't cover Canada. Thompson and Thompson
	is very expensive but have a near monopoly on the
	worldwide trade-mark business.

	The have a web site under the thomson-thomson and a 
	new service under the saegious(sp) name BUT they charge
	$2.50 per hit on any search AFTER you setup and account.

-- Bill

> On Dec 13,  2:53am, Ariel Faigon wrote:
> > 
> > I'm not sure if I should feel amused or saddened by this
> > email.  I'm not a lawyer, just curious of what would you
> > be doing in reponse.
> > 
> > Note that:
> > 	The facts this email presents are inaccurate:
> > 
> > 	1) We don't have any "product" on www.linux.sgi.com
> > 	   just a free source distribution.
> > 	2) His claim is ignoring the fact that "Linux" is
> > 	   a trademark of Linus Torvalds which may invalidate
> > 	   any claim to its derivatives by another party.
> > 	3) We use "Hard Hat 5.1" as a humorous way to say
> > 	   it is somewhat unstable release of Red Hat 5.1
> > 	   in a casual way in one title.
> > 	4) We never use the term "Hard Hat Linux".
> > 
> > I guess the question is whether our very innocent and casual
> > use of the phrase "Hard Hat" in one web page and without any
> > product connotation constitutes trademark infringement.
> > 
> > 
> > Forwarded message:
> > :From maurice@harddata.com  Sat Dec 12 12:23:42 1998
> > :Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981212132336.00a0ecb0@209.207.211.2>
> > :X-Sender: mhilariu@209.207.211.2
> > :X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32)
> > :Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 13:23:36 -0700
> > :To: adevries@engsoc.carleton.ca
> > :From: Maurice Hilarius <maurice@harddata.com>
> > :Subject: Hard Hat Linux
> > :Cc: ariel@sgi.com
> > :Mime-Version: 1.0
> > :Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> > :
> > :Good day Gentlemen.
> > :
> > :One of our customers pointed us to your webpage:
> > :http://www.linux.sgi.com/manhattan/
> > :
> > :We wish to inform you that the names "Hard Hat" and "Hard Hat Linux" are
> > :copyrighted names and registered trademarks of Hard Data Ltd., Of Edmonton,
> > :Alberta, Canada.
> > :
> > :We ask that you please use another name for your project, as we can not
> > :permit this use of the brand name and trademark "Hard Hat Linux".
> > :We suspect that this usage was probably not designed to harm our tradmark,
> > :but we still can not permit it to be used, especially without our express
> > :permission.
> > :
> > :If there are any questions please contact Maurice Hilarius of Hard Data
> > :Ltd. at the address and/or telphone numbers listed in the signature (below).
> > :
> > :Seasons Greetings.
> > :
> > :Best regards,
> > :
> > :  Maurice W. Hilarius                   Telephone: 01-403-414-9319
> > :  Hard Data Ltd.                      **FAX:       01-403-456-1510
> > :  11060 - 166 Avenue                    email:maurice@harddata.com
> > :  Edmonton, AB, Canada  - T5X 1Y3       http://www.harddata.com
> > :  
> > :
> > 
> > 
> > -- 
> > Peace, Ariel
> > 
> >-- End of excerpt from Ariel Faigon
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Joseph Michaud                Silicon Graphics - Applications Consulting
> jmichaud@boston.sgi.com       x483-2255                   (978) 562-4800
> 

Re: Hard Hat Linux (fwd)

[William Fisher]

> 
> 
> Hmm.  I don't find any such trademarks on a search at the
> US Patent Office (http://www.uspto.gov/tmdb/index.html).
> 
> Ask him what the trademark registration number is, and
> where it is registered...
> 
> Joe
> 
	Did you try Thomson and Thomson? The US Government
	trademarks don't cover Canada. Thompson and Thompson
	is very expensive but have a near monopoly on the
	worldwide trade-mark business.

	The have a web site under the thomson-thomson and a 
	new service under the saegious(sp) name BUT they charge
	$2.50 per hit on any search AFTER you setup and account.

-- Bill

> On Dec 13,  2:53am, Ariel Faigon wrote:
> > 
> > I'm not sure if I should feel amused or saddened by this
> > email.  I'm not a lawyer, just curious of what would you
> > be doing in reponse.
> > 
> > Note that:
> > 	The facts this email presents are inaccurate:
> > 
> > 	1) We don't have any "product" on www.linux.sgi.com
> > 	   just a free source distribution.
> > 	2) His claim is ignoring the fact that "Linux" is
> > 	   a trademark of Linus Torvalds which may invalidate
> > 	   any claim to its derivatives by another party.
> > 	3) We use "Hard Hat 5.1" as a humorous way to say
> > 	   it is somewhat unstable release of Red Hat 5.1
> > 	   in a casual way in one title.
> > 	4) We never use the term "Hard Hat Linux".
> > 
> > I guess the question is whether our very innocent and casual
> > use of the phrase "Hard Hat" in one web page and without any
> > product connotation constitutes trademark infringement.
> > 
> > 
> > Forwarded message:
> > :From maurice@harddata.com  Sat Dec 12 12:23:42 1998
> > :Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981212132336.00a0ecb0@209.207.211.2>
> > :X-Sender: mhilariu@209.207.211.2
> > :X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32)
> > :Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 13:23:36 -0700
> > :To: adevries@engsoc.carleton.ca
> > :From: Maurice Hilarius <maurice@harddata.com>
> > :Subject: Hard Hat Linux
> > :Cc: ariel@sgi.com
> > :Mime-Version: 1.0
> > :Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> > :
> > :Good day Gentlemen.
> > :
> > :One of our customers pointed us to your webpage:
> > :http://www.linux.sgi.com/manhattan/
> > :
> > :We wish to inform you that the names "Hard Hat" and "Hard Hat Linux" are
> > :copyrighted names and registered trademarks of Hard Data Ltd., Of Edmonton,
> > :Alberta, Canada.
> > :
> > :We ask that you please use another name for your project, as we can not
> > :permit this use of the brand name and trademark "Hard Hat Linux".
> > :We suspect that this usage was probably not designed to harm our tradmark,
> > :but we still can not permit it to be used, especially without our express
> > :permission.
> > :
> > :If there are any questions please contact Maurice Hilarius of Hard Data
> > :Ltd. at the address and/or telphone numbers listed in the signature (below).
> > :
> > :Seasons Greetings.
> > :
> > :Best regards,
> > :
> > :  Maurice W. Hilarius                   Telephone: 01-403-414-9319
> > :  Hard Data Ltd.                      **FAX:       01-403-456-1510
> > :  11060 - 166 Avenue                    email:maurice@harddata.com
> > :  Edmonton, AB, Canada  - T5X 1Y3       http://www.harddata.com
> > :  
> > :
> > 
> > 
> > -- 
> > Peace, Ariel
> > 
> >-- End of excerpt from Ariel Faigon
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Joseph Michaud                Silicon Graphics - Applications Consulting
> jmichaud@boston.sgi.com       x483-2255                   (978) 562-4800
> 

Re: Hard Hat Linux (fwd)

[Greg Chesson]

Hilarius is a trademark of Monty Python.


-- 
Greg Chesson

Re: Hard Hat Linux (fwd)

[Greg Chesson]

Hilarius is a trademark of Monty Python.


-- 
Greg Chesson

Re: Hard Hat Linux (fwd)

[Ariel Faigon]

[FYI, regarding that request to erase the "Hard Hat"
words from www.linux.sgi.com -- Ariel]

The suggestion by Joe to check http://www.uspto.gov/tmdb/index.html
proved to be pretty helpful, thanks.

A search revealed no less than 22 parties claiming
"Hard Hat" as a registered trade mark in various
variations.  I wrote back to Mr Hilarius (tm of Monty
as Greg suggested :-) telling him that I couldn't verify
his claim in this database (and what I found instead)
and asked for more details.

I also mentioned that AFAIK "Linux" is a trademark
of Linus Torvalds and asked whether he can prove
that he got permission from Linus to use the TM
in his claimed TM: "Hard Hat Linux".

That said, I made it clear that it is not our intention
to infringe on anyone trademarks, and if he could only
answer my questions in a satisfactory way, We'd be
glad to change our web page.

He had several days to respond, but I haven't heard
from him since... Will let you know if he ever does.

--
Peace, Ariel


:On Dec 13,  2:53am, Ariel Faigon wrote:
:> 
:> I'm not sure if I should feel amused or saddened by this
:> email.  I'm not a lawyer, just curious of what would you
:> be doing in reponse.
:> 
:> Note that:
:> 	The facts this email presents are inaccurate:
:> 
:> 	1) We don't have any "product" on www.linux.sgi.com
:> 	   just a free source distribution.
:> 	2) His claim is ignoring the fact that "Linux" is
:> 	   a trademark of Linus Torvalds which may invalidate
:> 	   any claim to its derivatives by another party.
:> 	3) We use "Hard Hat 5.1" as a humorous way to say
:> 	   it is somewhat unstable release of Red Hat 5.1
:> 	   in a casual way in one title.
:> 	4) We never use the term "Hard Hat Linux".
:> 
:> I guess the question is whether our very innocent and casual
:> use of the phrase "Hard Hat" in one web page and without any
:> product connotation constitutes trademark infringement.
:> 
:> 
:> Forwarded message:
:> :From maurice@harddata.com  Sat Dec 12 12:23:42 1998
:> :Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981212132336.00a0ecb0@209.207.211.2>
:> :X-Sender: mhilariu@209.207.211.2
:> :X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32)
:> :Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 13:23:36 -0700
:> :To: adevries@engsoc.carleton.ca
:> :From: Maurice Hilarius <maurice@harddata.com>
:> :Subject: Hard Hat Linux
:> :Cc: ariel@sgi.com
:> :Mime-Version: 1.0
:> :Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
:> :
:> :Good day Gentlemen.
:> :
:> :One of our customers pointed us to your webpage:
:> :http://www.linux.sgi.com/manhattan/
:> :
:> :We wish to inform you that the names "Hard Hat" and "Hard Hat Linux" are
:> :copyrighted names and registered trademarks of Hard Data Ltd., Of Edmonton,
:> :Alberta, Canada.
:> :
:> :We ask that you please use another name for your project, as we can not
:> :permit this use of the brand name and trademark "Hard Hat Linux".
:> :We suspect that this usage was probably not designed to harm our tradmark,
:> :but we still can not permit it to be used, especially without our express
:> :permission.
:> :
:> :If there are any questions please contact Maurice Hilarius of Hard Data
:> :Ltd. at the address and/or telphone numbers listed in the signature (below).
:> :
:> :Seasons Greetings.
:> :
:> :Best regards,
:> :
:> :  Maurice W. Hilarius                   Telephone: 01-403-414-9319
:> :  Hard Data Ltd.                      **FAX:       01-403-456-1510
:> :  11060 - 166 Avenue                    email:maurice@harddata.com
:> :  Edmonton, AB, Canada  - T5X 1Y3       http://www.harddata.com
:> :  
:> :
:> 
:> 
:> -- 
:> Peace, Ariel
:> 
:>-- End of excerpt from Ariel Faigon
:
:
:
:-- 
:
:------------------------------------------------------------------------
:Joseph Michaud                Silicon Graphics - Applications Consulting
:jmichaud@boston.sgi.com       x483-2255                   (978) 562-4800
:


-- 
Peace, Ariel

Re: Hard Hat Linux (fwd)

[Ariel Faigon]

[FYI, regarding that request to erase the "Hard Hat"
words from www.linux.sgi.com -- Ariel]

The suggestion by Joe to check http://www.uspto.gov/tmdb/index.html
proved to be pretty helpful, thanks.

A search revealed no less than 22 parties claiming
"Hard Hat" as a registered trade mark in various
variations.  I wrote back to Mr Hilarius (tm of Monty
as Greg suggested :-) telling him that I couldn't verify
his claim in this database (and what I found instead)
and asked for more details.

I also mentioned that AFAIK "Linux" is a trademark
of Linus Torvalds and asked whether he can prove
that he got permission from Linus to use the TM
in his claimed TM: "Hard Hat Linux".

That said, I made it clear that it is not our intention
to infringe on anyone trademarks, and if he could only
answer my questions in a satisfactory way, We'd be
glad to change our web page.

He had several days to respond, but I haven't heard
from him since... Will let you know if he ever does.

--
Peace, Ariel


:On Dec 13,  2:53am, Ariel Faigon wrote:
:> 
:> I'm not sure if I should feel amused or saddened by this
:> email.  I'm not a lawyer, just curious of what would you
:> be doing in reponse.
:> 
:> Note that:
:> 	The facts this email presents are inaccurate:
:> 
:> 	1) We don't have any "product" on www.linux.sgi.com
:> 	   just a free source distribution.
:> 	2) His claim is ignoring the fact that "Linux" is
:> 	   a trademark of Linus Torvalds which may invalidate
:> 	   any claim to its derivatives by another party.
:> 	3) We use "Hard Hat 5.1" as a humorous way to say
:> 	   it is somewhat unstable release of Red Hat 5.1
:> 	   in a casual way in one title.
:> 	4) We never use the term "Hard Hat Linux".
:> 
:> I guess the question is whether our very innocent and casual
:> use of the phrase "Hard Hat" in one web page and without any
:> product connotation constitutes trademark infringement.
:> 
:> 
:> Forwarded message:
:> :From maurice@harddata.com  Sat Dec 12 12:23:42 1998
:> :Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981212132336.00a0ecb0@209.207.211.2>
:> :X-Sender: mhilariu@209.207.211.2
:> :X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32)
:> :Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 13:23:36 -0700
:> :To: adevries@engsoc.carleton.ca
:> :From: Maurice Hilarius <maurice@harddata.com>
:> :Subject: Hard Hat Linux
:> :Cc: ariel@sgi.com
:> :Mime-Version: 1.0
:> :Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
:> :
:> :Good day Gentlemen.
:> :
:> :One of our customers pointed us to your webpage:
:> :http://www.linux.sgi.com/manhattan/
:> :
:> :We wish to inform you that the names "Hard Hat" and "Hard Hat Linux" are
:> :copyrighted names and registered trademarks of Hard Data Ltd., Of Edmonton,
:> :Alberta, Canada.
:> :
:> :We ask that you please use another name for your project, as we can not
:> :permit this use of the brand name and trademark "Hard Hat Linux".
:> :We suspect that this usage was probably not designed to harm our tradmark,
:> :but we still can not permit it to be used, especially without our express
:> :permission.
:> :
:> :If there are any questions please contact Maurice Hilarius of Hard Data
:> :Ltd. at the address and/or telphone numbers listed in the signature (below).
:> :
:> :Seasons Greetings.
:> :
:> :Best regards,
:> :
:> :  Maurice W. Hilarius                   Telephone: 01-403-414-9319
:> :  Hard Data Ltd.                      **FAX:       01-403-456-1510
:> :  11060 - 166 Avenue                    email:maurice@harddata.com
:> :  Edmonton, AB, Canada  - T5X 1Y3       http://www.harddata.com
:> :  
:> :
:> 
:> 
:> -- 
:> Peace, Ariel
:> 
:>-- End of excerpt from Ariel Faigon
:
:
:
:-- 
:
:------------------------------------------------------------------------
:Joseph Michaud                Silicon Graphics - Applications Consulting
:jmichaud@boston.sgi.com       x483-2255                   (978) 562-4800
:


-- 
Peace, Ariel