* Re: Hard Hat Linux (fwd)
@ 1998-12-14 0:58 ` Joseph Michaud
0 siblings, 0 replies; 11+ messages in thread
From: Joseph Michaud @ 1998-12-14 0:58 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: SGI/Linux mailing list
Hmm. I don't find any such trademarks on a search at the
US Patent Office (http://www.uspto.gov/tmdb/index.html).
Ask him what the trademark registration number is, and
where it is registered...
Joe
On Dec 13, 2:53am, Ariel Faigon wrote:
>
> I'm not sure if I should feel amused or saddened by this
> email. I'm not a lawyer, just curious of what would you
> be doing in reponse.
>
> Note that:
> The facts this email presents are inaccurate:
>
> 1) We don't have any "product" on www.linux.sgi.com
> just a free source distribution.
> 2) His claim is ignoring the fact that "Linux" is
> a trademark of Linus Torvalds which may invalidate
> any claim to its derivatives by another party.
> 3) We use "Hard Hat 5.1" as a humorous way to say
> it is somewhat unstable release of Red Hat 5.1
> in a casual way in one title.
> 4) We never use the term "Hard Hat Linux".
>
> I guess the question is whether our very innocent and casual
> use of the phrase "Hard Hat" in one web page and without any
> product connotation constitutes trademark infringement.
>
>
> Forwarded message:
> :From maurice@harddata.com Sat Dec 12 12:23:42 1998
> :Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981212132336.00a0ecb0@209.207.211.2>
> :X-Sender: mhilariu@209.207.211.2
> :X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32)
> :Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 13:23:36 -0700
> :To: adevries@engsoc.carleton.ca
> :From: Maurice Hilarius <maurice@harddata.com>
> :Subject: Hard Hat Linux
> :Cc: ariel@sgi.com
> :Mime-Version: 1.0
> :Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> :
> :Good day Gentlemen.
> :
> :One of our customers pointed us to your webpage:
> :http://www.linux.sgi.com/manhattan/
> :
> :We wish to inform you that the names "Hard Hat" and "Hard Hat Linux" are
> :copyrighted names and registered trademarks of Hard Data Ltd., Of Edmonton,
> :Alberta, Canada.
> :
> :We ask that you please use another name for your project, as we can not
> :permit this use of the brand name and trademark "Hard Hat Linux".
> :We suspect that this usage was probably not designed to harm our tradmark,
> :but we still can not permit it to be used, especially without our express
> :permission.
> :
> :If there are any questions please contact Maurice Hilarius of Hard Data
> :Ltd. at the address and/or telphone numbers listed in the signature (below).
> :
> :Seasons Greetings.
> :
> :Best regards,
> :
> : Maurice W. Hilarius Telephone: 01-403-414-9319
> : Hard Data Ltd. **FAX: 01-403-456-1510
> : 11060 - 166 Avenue email:maurice@harddata.com
> : Edmonton, AB, Canada - T5X 1Y3 http://www.harddata.com
> :
> :
>
>
> --
> Peace, Ariel
>
>-- End of excerpt from Ariel Faigon
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Joseph Michaud Silicon Graphics - Applications Consulting
jmichaud@boston.sgi.com x483-2255 (978) 562-4800
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: Hard Hat Linux (fwd)
@ 1998-12-14 3:29 ` William Fisher
0 siblings, 0 replies; 11+ messages in thread
From: William Fisher @ 1998-12-14 3:29 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Joseph Michaud; +Cc: linux, William Fisher
>
>
> Hmm. I don't find any such trademarks on a search at the
> US Patent Office (http://www.uspto.gov/tmdb/index.html).
>
> Ask him what the trademark registration number is, and
> where it is registered...
>
> Joe
>
Did you try Thomson and Thomson? The US Government
trademarks don't cover Canada. Thompson and Thompson
is very expensive but have a near monopoly on the
worldwide trade-mark business.
The have a web site under the thomson-thomson and a
new service under the saegious(sp) name BUT they charge
$2.50 per hit on any search AFTER you setup and account.
-- Bill
> On Dec 13, 2:53am, Ariel Faigon wrote:
> >
> > I'm not sure if I should feel amused or saddened by this
> > email. I'm not a lawyer, just curious of what would you
> > be doing in reponse.
> >
> > Note that:
> > The facts this email presents are inaccurate:
> >
> > 1) We don't have any "product" on www.linux.sgi.com
> > just a free source distribution.
> > 2) His claim is ignoring the fact that "Linux" is
> > a trademark of Linus Torvalds which may invalidate
> > any claim to its derivatives by another party.
> > 3) We use "Hard Hat 5.1" as a humorous way to say
> > it is somewhat unstable release of Red Hat 5.1
> > in a casual way in one title.
> > 4) We never use the term "Hard Hat Linux".
> >
> > I guess the question is whether our very innocent and casual
> > use of the phrase "Hard Hat" in one web page and without any
> > product connotation constitutes trademark infringement.
> >
> >
> > Forwarded message:
> > :From maurice@harddata.com Sat Dec 12 12:23:42 1998
> > :Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981212132336.00a0ecb0@209.207.211.2>
> > :X-Sender: mhilariu@209.207.211.2
> > :X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32)
> > :Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 13:23:36 -0700
> > :To: adevries@engsoc.carleton.ca
> > :From: Maurice Hilarius <maurice@harddata.com>
> > :Subject: Hard Hat Linux
> > :Cc: ariel@sgi.com
> > :Mime-Version: 1.0
> > :Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> > :
> > :Good day Gentlemen.
> > :
> > :One of our customers pointed us to your webpage:
> > :http://www.linux.sgi.com/manhattan/
> > :
> > :We wish to inform you that the names "Hard Hat" and "Hard Hat Linux" are
> > :copyrighted names and registered trademarks of Hard Data Ltd., Of Edmonton,
> > :Alberta, Canada.
> > :
> > :We ask that you please use another name for your project, as we can not
> > :permit this use of the brand name and trademark "Hard Hat Linux".
> > :We suspect that this usage was probably not designed to harm our tradmark,
> > :but we still can not permit it to be used, especially without our express
> > :permission.
> > :
> > :If there are any questions please contact Maurice Hilarius of Hard Data
> > :Ltd. at the address and/or telphone numbers listed in the signature (below).
> > :
> > :Seasons Greetings.
> > :
> > :Best regards,
> > :
> > : Maurice W. Hilarius Telephone: 01-403-414-9319
> > : Hard Data Ltd. **FAX: 01-403-456-1510
> > : 11060 - 166 Avenue email:maurice@harddata.com
> > : Edmonton, AB, Canada - T5X 1Y3 http://www.harddata.com
> > :
> > :
> >
> >
> > --
> > Peace, Ariel
> >
> >-- End of excerpt from Ariel Faigon
>
>
>
> --
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Joseph Michaud Silicon Graphics - Applications Consulting
> jmichaud@boston.sgi.com x483-2255 (978) 562-4800
>
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: Hard Hat Linux (fwd)
@ 1998-12-14 3:29 ` William Fisher
0 siblings, 0 replies; 11+ messages in thread
From: William Fisher @ 1998-12-14 3:29 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Joseph Michaud; +Cc: linux, William Fisher
>
>
> Hmm. I don't find any such trademarks on a search at the
> US Patent Office (http://www.uspto.gov/tmdb/index.html).
>
> Ask him what the trademark registration number is, and
> where it is registered...
>
> Joe
>
Did you try Thomson and Thomson? The US Government
trademarks don't cover Canada. Thompson and Thompson
is very expensive but have a near monopoly on the
worldwide trade-mark business.
The have a web site under the thomson-thomson and a
new service under the saegious(sp) name BUT they charge
$2.50 per hit on any search AFTER you setup and account.
-- Bill
> On Dec 13, 2:53am, Ariel Faigon wrote:
> >
> > I'm not sure if I should feel amused or saddened by this
> > email. I'm not a lawyer, just curious of what would you
> > be doing in reponse.
> >
> > Note that:
> > The facts this email presents are inaccurate:
> >
> > 1) We don't have any "product" on www.linux.sgi.com
> > just a free source distribution.
> > 2) His claim is ignoring the fact that "Linux" is
> > a trademark of Linus Torvalds which may invalidate
> > any claim to its derivatives by another party.
> > 3) We use "Hard Hat 5.1" as a humorous way to say
> > it is somewhat unstable release of Red Hat 5.1
> > in a casual way in one title.
> > 4) We never use the term "Hard Hat Linux".
> >
> > I guess the question is whether our very innocent and casual
> > use of the phrase "Hard Hat" in one web page and without any
> > product connotation constitutes trademark infringement.
> >
> >
> > Forwarded message:
> > :From maurice@harddata.com Sat Dec 12 12:23:42 1998
> > :Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981212132336.00a0ecb0@209.207.211.2>
> > :X-Sender: mhilariu@209.207.211.2
> > :X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32)
> > :Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 13:23:36 -0700
> > :To: adevries@engsoc.carleton.ca
> > :From: Maurice Hilarius <maurice@harddata.com>
> > :Subject: Hard Hat Linux
> > :Cc: ariel@sgi.com
> > :Mime-Version: 1.0
> > :Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> > :
> > :Good day Gentlemen.
> > :
> > :One of our customers pointed us to your webpage:
> > :http://www.linux.sgi.com/manhattan/
> > :
> > :We wish to inform you that the names "Hard Hat" and "Hard Hat Linux" are
> > :copyrighted names and registered trademarks of Hard Data Ltd., Of Edmonton,
> > :Alberta, Canada.
> > :
> > :We ask that you please use another name for your project, as we can not
> > :permit this use of the brand name and trademark "Hard Hat Linux".
> > :We suspect that this usage was probably not designed to harm our tradmark,
> > :but we still can not permit it to be used, especially without our express
> > :permission.
> > :
> > :If there are any questions please contact Maurice Hilarius of Hard Data
> > :Ltd. at the address and/or telphone numbers listed in the signature (below).
> > :
> > :Seasons Greetings.
> > :
> > :Best regards,
> > :
> > : Maurice W. Hilarius Telephone: 01-403-414-9319
> > : Hard Data Ltd. **FAX: 01-403-456-1510
> > : 11060 - 166 Avenue email:maurice@harddata.com
> > : Edmonton, AB, Canada - T5X 1Y3 http://www.harddata.com
> > :
> > :
> >
> >
> > --
> > Peace, Ariel
> >
> >-- End of excerpt from Ariel Faigon
>
>
>
> --
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Joseph Michaud Silicon Graphics - Applications Consulting
> jmichaud@boston.sgi.com x483-2255 (978) 562-4800
>
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: Hard Hat Linux (fwd)
@ 1998-12-16 23:25 ` Ariel Faigon
0 siblings, 0 replies; 11+ messages in thread
From: Ariel Faigon @ 1998-12-16 23:25 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Joseph Michaud; +Cc: linux
[FYI, regarding that request to erase the "Hard Hat"
words from www.linux.sgi.com -- Ariel]
The suggestion by Joe to check http://www.uspto.gov/tmdb/index.html
proved to be pretty helpful, thanks.
A search revealed no less than 22 parties claiming
"Hard Hat" as a registered trade mark in various
variations. I wrote back to Mr Hilarius (tm of Monty
as Greg suggested :-) telling him that I couldn't verify
his claim in this database (and what I found instead)
and asked for more details.
I also mentioned that AFAIK "Linux" is a trademark
of Linus Torvalds and asked whether he can prove
that he got permission from Linus to use the TM
in his claimed TM: "Hard Hat Linux".
That said, I made it clear that it is not our intention
to infringe on anyone trademarks, and if he could only
answer my questions in a satisfactory way, We'd be
glad to change our web page.
He had several days to respond, but I haven't heard
from him since... Will let you know if he ever does.
--
Peace, Ariel
:On Dec 13, 2:53am, Ariel Faigon wrote:
:>
:> I'm not sure if I should feel amused or saddened by this
:> email. I'm not a lawyer, just curious of what would you
:> be doing in reponse.
:>
:> Note that:
:> The facts this email presents are inaccurate:
:>
:> 1) We don't have any "product" on www.linux.sgi.com
:> just a free source distribution.
:> 2) His claim is ignoring the fact that "Linux" is
:> a trademark of Linus Torvalds which may invalidate
:> any claim to its derivatives by another party.
:> 3) We use "Hard Hat 5.1" as a humorous way to say
:> it is somewhat unstable release of Red Hat 5.1
:> in a casual way in one title.
:> 4) We never use the term "Hard Hat Linux".
:>
:> I guess the question is whether our very innocent and casual
:> use of the phrase "Hard Hat" in one web page and without any
:> product connotation constitutes trademark infringement.
:>
:>
:> Forwarded message:
:> :From maurice@harddata.com Sat Dec 12 12:23:42 1998
:> :Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981212132336.00a0ecb0@209.207.211.2>
:> :X-Sender: mhilariu@209.207.211.2
:> :X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32)
:> :Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 13:23:36 -0700
:> :To: adevries@engsoc.carleton.ca
:> :From: Maurice Hilarius <maurice@harddata.com>
:> :Subject: Hard Hat Linux
:> :Cc: ariel@sgi.com
:> :Mime-Version: 1.0
:> :Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
:> :
:> :Good day Gentlemen.
:> :
:> :One of our customers pointed us to your webpage:
:> :http://www.linux.sgi.com/manhattan/
:> :
:> :We wish to inform you that the names "Hard Hat" and "Hard Hat Linux" are
:> :copyrighted names and registered trademarks of Hard Data Ltd., Of Edmonton,
:> :Alberta, Canada.
:> :
:> :We ask that you please use another name for your project, as we can not
:> :permit this use of the brand name and trademark "Hard Hat Linux".
:> :We suspect that this usage was probably not designed to harm our tradmark,
:> :but we still can not permit it to be used, especially without our express
:> :permission.
:> :
:> :If there are any questions please contact Maurice Hilarius of Hard Data
:> :Ltd. at the address and/or telphone numbers listed in the signature (below).
:> :
:> :Seasons Greetings.
:> :
:> :Best regards,
:> :
:> : Maurice W. Hilarius Telephone: 01-403-414-9319
:> : Hard Data Ltd. **FAX: 01-403-456-1510
:> : 11060 - 166 Avenue email:maurice@harddata.com
:> : Edmonton, AB, Canada - T5X 1Y3 http://www.harddata.com
:> :
:> :
:>
:>
:> --
:> Peace, Ariel
:>
:>-- End of excerpt from Ariel Faigon
:
:
:
:--
:
:------------------------------------------------------------------------
:Joseph Michaud Silicon Graphics - Applications Consulting
:jmichaud@boston.sgi.com x483-2255 (978) 562-4800
:
--
Peace, Ariel
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: Hard Hat Linux (fwd)
@ 1998-12-16 23:25 ` Ariel Faigon
0 siblings, 0 replies; 11+ messages in thread
From: Ariel Faigon @ 1998-12-16 23:25 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Joseph Michaud; +Cc: linux
[FYI, regarding that request to erase the "Hard Hat"
words from www.linux.sgi.com -- Ariel]
The suggestion by Joe to check http://www.uspto.gov/tmdb/index.html
proved to be pretty helpful, thanks.
A search revealed no less than 22 parties claiming
"Hard Hat" as a registered trade mark in various
variations. I wrote back to Mr Hilarius (tm of Monty
as Greg suggested :-) telling him that I couldn't verify
his claim in this database (and what I found instead)
and asked for more details.
I also mentioned that AFAIK "Linux" is a trademark
of Linus Torvalds and asked whether he can prove
that he got permission from Linus to use the TM
in his claimed TM: "Hard Hat Linux".
That said, I made it clear that it is not our intention
to infringe on anyone trademarks, and if he could only
answer my questions in a satisfactory way, We'd be
glad to change our web page.
He had several days to respond, but I haven't heard
from him since... Will let you know if he ever does.
--
Peace, Ariel
:On Dec 13, 2:53am, Ariel Faigon wrote:
:>
:> I'm not sure if I should feel amused or saddened by this
:> email. I'm not a lawyer, just curious of what would you
:> be doing in reponse.
:>
:> Note that:
:> The facts this email presents are inaccurate:
:>
:> 1) We don't have any "product" on www.linux.sgi.com
:> just a free source distribution.
:> 2) His claim is ignoring the fact that "Linux" is
:> a trademark of Linus Torvalds which may invalidate
:> any claim to its derivatives by another party.
:> 3) We use "Hard Hat 5.1" as a humorous way to say
:> it is somewhat unstable release of Red Hat 5.1
:> in a casual way in one title.
:> 4) We never use the term "Hard Hat Linux".
:>
:> I guess the question is whether our very innocent and casual
:> use of the phrase "Hard Hat" in one web page and without any
:> product connotation constitutes trademark infringement.
:>
:>
:> Forwarded message:
:> :From maurice@harddata.com Sat Dec 12 12:23:42 1998
:> :Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981212132336.00a0ecb0@209.207.211.2>
:> :X-Sender: mhilariu@209.207.211.2
:> :X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32)
:> :Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 13:23:36 -0700
:> :To: adevries@engsoc.carleton.ca
:> :From: Maurice Hilarius <maurice@harddata.com>
:> :Subject: Hard Hat Linux
:> :Cc: ariel@sgi.com
:> :Mime-Version: 1.0
:> :Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
:> :
:> :Good day Gentlemen.
:> :
:> :One of our customers pointed us to your webpage:
:> :http://www.linux.sgi.com/manhattan/
:> :
:> :We wish to inform you that the names "Hard Hat" and "Hard Hat Linux" are
:> :copyrighted names and registered trademarks of Hard Data Ltd., Of Edmonton,
:> :Alberta, Canada.
:> :
:> :We ask that you please use another name for your project, as we can not
:> :permit this use of the brand name and trademark "Hard Hat Linux".
:> :We suspect that this usage was probably not designed to harm our tradmark,
:> :but we still can not permit it to be used, especially without our express
:> :permission.
:> :
:> :If there are any questions please contact Maurice Hilarius of Hard Data
:> :Ltd. at the address and/or telphone numbers listed in the signature (below).
:> :
:> :Seasons Greetings.
:> :
:> :Best regards,
:> :
:> : Maurice W. Hilarius Telephone: 01-403-414-9319
:> : Hard Data Ltd. **FAX: 01-403-456-1510
:> : 11060 - 166 Avenue email:maurice@harddata.com
:> : Edmonton, AB, Canada - T5X 1Y3 http://www.harddata.com
:> :
:> :
:>
:>
:> --
:> Peace, Ariel
:>
:>-- End of excerpt from Ariel Faigon
:
:
:
:--
:
:------------------------------------------------------------------------
:Joseph Michaud Silicon Graphics - Applications Consulting
:jmichaud@boston.sgi.com x483-2255 (978) 562-4800
:
--
Peace, Ariel
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread